Discuss Numbers 15

  • Richard H Priday - 7 months ago
    Primary understanding of the Bible (part 2)

    Section 1: Primary themes of scripture and primary applications

    A child could probably read a section of the Bible and learn fairly easily about David and Goliath; Noah's Ark; and major characters in scripture as well as basic scriptures about Christ. We can make two errors related to this topic; the first finding nothing of meaning to us as 21st Century citizens of the USA or other modern civilizations or the opposite-thinking every verse somehow applies to us. Without disputing the 2 Timothy 3:16 concept; we simply cannot find a way to directly relate to David's story fighting a giant or any other incidents involving the genetically mutated offspring of Nephilim; nor can we relate to a command to destroy all men; women; children and cattle in a wartime situation today. In these cases; of course we can apply principles such as obedience being better than sacrifice ( 1 Samuel 15:22) as well as understanding the spiritual dimension which still exists today; even with certain entities already chained in the abyss ( 2 Peter 2:4) being a past event. Still other passages may discuss ceremonial laws which have no practical moral application but would keep an individual out of being part of Israel in the Old Testament times; when certain other Sabbath rules were strictly enforced to the point of death ( Numbers 15:32-36). We also are forced to deal with certain passages such as Deuteronomy 24 and later commentary by Christ in Matthew 5 and 19 which trumpet what Moses permitted due to hardness of hearts but apparently wasn't God's will in the beginning and therefore not "commanded" as the Pharisees presented their arguments in these passages to permit divorce.

    In short; I would say that primary themes help tell the story of God's master plan; or, as Navigator's states in the concept Dawson Trotman states "to know Christ and to make Him known." The exclusivity of Christ in such passages as John 3:16 show how to be saved
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 11 months ago
    Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

    Part 3.

    WHAT MADE SABBATH "HOLY "

    The essence of Sabbath-keeping was physical rest. In Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the Sabbath command specifies rest from labor as the way to keep the day "holy." There is no mention of going to a worship service each Sabbath. Other passages in the Old Testament also define the Sabbath by rest, not by attendance at worship services. See Exodus 31:12-17, Numbers 15:32, Nehemiah 13:15-22 and Jeremiah 17:19-27. The latter two passages, though they refer to Jerusalem, do not mention anything about failure to attend worship services or "sacred assemblies," but only work on the Sabbath as a desecration of this day.

    An interesting study is to look up the word "Sabbath" in a concordance, find all the Old Testament references and then read those passages to see how this day was kept "holy." The conclusion will be that rest from labor is what made the Sabbath sacred time, not attendance at a worship service. Most Israelites lived too far from the tabernacle to attend a worship service every Sabbath - and there is no evidence in the Old Testament that they did. And the law did not allow them to assemble anywhere else for worship. Nor do we find commands even for people near the Tabernacle that they had to gather for worship. The Sabbath was kept at home, by resting.

    There is no mention in Old Testament passages that attending a worship service on the Sabbath is a way of keeping this day holy. The way the Sabbath was sanctified, made holy or set apart as sacred was through physical rest from labor. All the Old Testament references to Sabbath observance in Israel speak to this point. There is no Old Testament theology of weekly Sabbath holiness that centers around attendance at "holy convocations."

    See Part 4.
  • S Spencer - 11 months ago
    Is worshipping God on any given day breaking the Sabbath?

    If performing the Sabbath rest is to be done on a Saturday, How is worshipping God on a Sunday be breaking the Sabbath?

    God gave the command for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 to those "WITHIN THE GATES OF ISRAEL"

    Not to the rest of the world.

    In Numbers 15:32-36. there was a man stoned to death for picking up sticks!

    I have never read anything like that happening or any punishment given to the rest of the world whether weekly Sabbath, yearly Sabbath or a Sabbath for the land.

    THE COMMAND TO REST ON THE SABBATH WAS GIVEN TO ISRAEL AND THE WORSHIP BY ISRAEL HAD TO BE DONE IN A CERTAIN PLACE.

    Here's an Interesting article by Paul Kroll.

    Part 1.

    Old Testament Laws:

    Is Leviticus 23:3 a Command to Have Worship Services on the Weekly Sabbath?

    We read the following command from Jesus in Luke 5:14, when he healed someone: "Show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them." If one assumed that Jesus' teaching applied to all people at all times, it could be claimed that this passage is "proof" telling Christians they must offer the proper Mosaic sacrifice and appear before a Jewish priest.

    However, we know that Luke 5:14 is not a command for us to offer sacrifices. How do we know this? It is because the total witness of the New Testament makes it clear that such sacrifices applied only to Israelites and Jews under the Mosaic old covenant. This illustrates the folly of isolating a verse from its context. We need to examine both the verse in question and the larger context of the Bible. We must not start with advance assumptions.

    See Part 2.
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    David0921. I agree, "we must keep in mind God's statement regarding the condition of ALL of Mankind", for truly 'none are righteous, no not even one'.

    And yes, those OT Sacrifices clearly pointed to Israel that "their sins brought them under condemnation and the Wrath of God", yet they still needed to faithfully perform them so as to stay the Wrath of God from them. For this reason, verses such as Numbers 15:25 & Leviticus 4:31 (after the priest offers the sacrifice, the burnt offering becomes a "sweet savour unto the LORD' and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and IT SHALL BE forgiven him") spoke very clearly to them concerning their state before God & their lives were under God's Judgement. If all that they sacrificed before God & receiving His forgiveness by it, only meant that they were performing an act which was useless, since Christ (as you believe), was already sacrificed for them from before the foundation of the world, then we do have a problem in understanding the nature of the OT sacrificial system.

    If Christ already atoned for their sins, what was the need to introduce a system of works to please God & receive His Forgiveness? It's almost like saying, 'that we have been forgiven by Christ's Blood, but we still need to add our own works to make His Sacrifice complete'. Certainly, the OT Sacrifices contained no efficacy, for their blood shed had no lasting atoning value to the offeror ( Hebrews 10:11,12), but it still had to be done, so that God's Wrath could be stayed, their sins had to be covered, that they be not destroyed. And if that were not the case, then so help any who failed to perform what God had commanded - their fate was sealed.

    The sacrificial system was absolutely important for Israel's physical preservation, but it did look forward to that One & only Sacrifice which would avail for them & for us. To understand the Bible in any other way concerning the sacrificial system, becomes meaningless.
  • Richard H Priday - 1 year ago
    Difficult passages in scripture: ordered extermination of children

    One of the most challenging things in the Bible is where God ordered the extermination of every man woman and child in conquest of the Promised Land. There is one fairly satisfactory reason why some were killed in this way; they were children of the union of fallen angels and women as first mentioned in Genesis 6; Nephilim which were NOT human and therefore were never to rise again; such as are indicated in Isaiah 26:14 (Rephaim in original translation). They would go to a certain part of the underworld at death.

    All other examples seem to involve human children and thus is beyond our scope of full understanding. In fact; such verses make us cringe. Only putting God's Holiness at the forefront of our trust can allow us to deal with such a difficult; painful and weighty matter. Such verses which indicate the death penalty for things which we as a "civilized society" would consider cruel (such as adultery or the example brought up in another recent post in Numbers 15:32-36 on a man being stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath) are also examples of things which in the "Age of Grace" aren't enforced today. We could say the same for National Israel when it was a Theocracy; there may be some return in the Millennium or end of the Tribulation when God conquers enemies through His people once again; but I digress.

    I would state at this juncture that there is enough scripture to indicate that the soul of a human child will NOT be sent to hell upon death- Matthew 18:10 is probably the most convincing along with the story of David's unborn child in 2 Samuel 12:23.

    There is a principle that judgment comes only when a nation is fully ripe for it; such as the case of the Amorites in Genesis 15:16; Nineveh after a respite following repentance; and in Sodom where it is entirely possible there were few if any children.

    I will continue this discussion in further posts.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

    Pt. 4

    It is certainly permissible to choose ways to help us remember God's Word. But we need to always "Keep it Fresh" so that such actions (traditions/habits) retain their purposed outcome. Also, we cannot let such actions replace our relationship with the LORD and lead to taking a cavalier approach to God because we are depending on our actions to make us holy rather than the Holy Spirit.

    Something things to think about in this chapter. I welcome the additions of others to my thoughts.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

    Pt. 3

    Were the people truly humbled after God's judgment? It seems that they were swift to bring this man to judgment who broke the Sabbath law. Which was worse? grumbling against God and disbelieving Him to deliver them into the land -or- collecting sticks on the Sabbath to keep warm or give light to their campsite.

    At least they waited until God spoke to Moses to carry out the requirement of the law concerning this breach. Maybe Moses told them to wait on the LORD. I wonder if they thought about their own rebelliousness and unbelief towards the LORD with every stone they threw at this man. They were equally as guilty as he was. They all had experienced the miraculous ways God delivered them from enemies and provided for their physical needs. They all had heard Moses announce the Law to them and they all agreed to keep the Law as their part of the covenant with the LORD. They all knew that they were law-breakers, just like this man.

    It seems the LORD exacted this sentence on this man because he deserved it, but also to show the people how serious and offensive their own sin truly was to God who delivered them from their enemies and bondage. Especially when God said that the sinner's soul will be cut off (assumed from God) and that his sin remains upon him. This goes beyond not entering into the land, dying in the wilderness. It speaks to the life to come for those who remain in unbelief.

    The chapter ends with God instructing the people to put fringes upon the hems of their garments with blue ribbon. This was for them to always be reminded of the their responsibility to keep the commandments God gave them as part of the covenant made at Sinai. I wonder how long it took for this practice to become so ordinary that it no longer was a reminder as God had requested of them. How long did it take for Israelites to abandon having fringed garments altogether.

    Such acts that are meant to remind us of God's Word can become mundane or rote to us.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

    Pt. 2

    God instructs Moses concerning sins committed out of ignorance and those committed out of presumption.

    God requires certain sacrifices be made for sins committed in ignorance and they will be forgiven.

    But sins of presumption are not treated so. The one who presumes to be free to break the commands of God and not suffer punishment because they are "chosen" by God will be reproaching God (despising Him or His commandments). the presumption spoken here speaks to an attitude of arrogance, rebellion, audacity, a willful going against the commands of God with impunity, thinking that God will surely not exact the judgment He said would come the one who willfully transgresses His commands.

    One who claims to follow God who acts presumptuously toward Him and His laws have placed themselves above God in determining what one is allowed to do. The chapter says that there is no ordinance (sacrifice or offering) that will bring forgiveness for this type of sinning. The one who acts this way will be cut off from among God's people. His soul shall be cut off and his iniquity shall remain upon him.

    And example of such actions is given in verses 32-36 when an Israelites gathers sticks on the Sabbath to make a fire. He knew the law concerning the Sabbath-all preparations were to be made the day before so that no one would work on the Sabbath. He failed to prepare for the needs of the fire (kind of like the foolish virgins). Also, rather than going without a fire for a day/night, he willfully and knowingly broke the Sabbath law and collected sticks, which was considered working on the Sabbath.

    At first, the people did not know what to do (vs. 34). Then God spoke to Moses about this man. He was to be stoned to death by the people outside the camp.

    After all that grumbling and rebellion prior to this event, it seems that the chastisement of the LORD sank in a little at this time. They knew that they would not enter the promised land because of their sin.
  • GiGi on Numbers 15 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

    This chapter is God describing to Moses how the Israelites and the foreigners among them are to sacrifice to Him once they are in the promised land.

    First off, God said that the people He delivered from Egypt would take possession of the land He promised to bring them into. God's words do not fail. The people hearing this from Moses would be glad to know that even though they themselves will not enter the land due to their grumbling and rebellion against the LORD (in Ch. 13 and 14), their children under 20 years of age would enter and live in the land of Canaan.

    In Hebrews 11 we are told of all the people of faith who believed God but never received the promise, yet they believed that God would fulfill all He promised ( Heb. 11:13-16, 39-40) God had something better for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and those who suffered for their faith than the land of Canaan. Verse 40 says: "God having provided some better thing for us (who believe in Jesus), that they without us should not be made perfect." These Old Testament saints were not set on living in the physical land promised as much as they looked forward to entering and abiding forever in the heavenly city prepared by our Lord, the dwelling place of those who believe God and His promises are true and worthy of receiving in the life to come.

    We, too, should not hold on to earthly blessings as if they are all we need in life. We need this heavenly dwelling place as much as all who have gone before us. We need the eternal inheritance we receive in Christ. We need to live where Jesus lives in the next life.

    The chapter goes on to describe the various sacrifices and offerings for both the Israelites and Gentiles who enter and are born in the land promised. God made it clear that these ordinances are to be the same for both Israelites and Gentiles living among them. In verse 15, the LORD says that "as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD." Both are the same before God.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Lambert.

    I have never heard anyone say Sunday is the sabbath. Have you?

    I never understood why some get upset at those who worship on a Sunday as if worshipping on a Sunday disrespects their holy Saturday rest day.

    I believe we worship everyday and we also rest everyday "if one understands what the rest we joined in means"

    I wonder if one decided to rest everyday "according to their definition of the sabbath" and treat all days equally the same would that also be wrong in their eyes.

    In other words one MUST work six days a week and rest Saturday in order to MAKE Saturday a holy day.

    NO RESTING ON WEDNESDAYS "AND SATURDAYS" OR YOU WILL MAKE SOMEONE UPSET.

    This is not honoring the sabbath day, It's worshipping the sabbath day.

    And if you're going to do it the way Israel was told to do it you can't even gather sticks.

    Numbers 15:32-35. And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

    And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

    And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

    And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 2 years ago
    I would first quote the Bible verse that the "for the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." ( Matthew 12:8). The issue of working on the Sabbath day was a trust issue at first which really began being judged when the manna being looked for Exodus 16:26-27. The rule was given that a double portion was to be collected the day before for enough supply. The issue of the Sabbath Day however once the law was fully given once again was tested with a man gathering sticks being put to death on the Sabbath. ( Numbers 15:32-36). We need to keep in mind here that God had rules specifically for His chosen nation; and that with more knowledge came more responsibility. They were fully aware in the desert of God's deliverance and chose to rebel over and over. They continued with idolatry and rebellion thus the Lord Himself decreed this. This shows the seriousness of God. He knew this man's heart; it would have been very likely this was open rebellion; to procure self reliance and gain apart from God as small as it seemed. Once one man did this many others would likely follow. Hence; we see God Himself bringing plagues; defeats with foreign armies and other things for disobedience of many laws.

    In David's case where he had Uriah the Hittite sent to the front lines to plan his death which was complicit to murder; as well as committing adultery previously with Bathsheeba was also not forgivable according to the law. Since David was said to be a man after God's own heart; the Prophet Nathan indicated that he wouldn't die; but for the sake of not having reproach from their enemies the child would die. ( 2 Sam. 12:14). It is interesting that God uses that for reasoning. The Hittites were the enemies of Israel who were to be destroyed when entering in the Promised Land. Yet Uriah was a righteous man; probably converted to being a Jew. This meant that satisfaction of justice had to benefit his enemies because God's people can't have double standards.
  • Mister David on Genesis 1 - 2 years ago
    Numbers 15:29

    Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

    Leviticus 24:22

    Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

    Numbers 15:16

    One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

    Ephesians 2:19-20

    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    Do these Scriptures make up airs to the kingdom of God along with the "Jewish" people?

    Why then can't a Christian buy land in Jerusalem without converting?
  • Marke - 2 years ago
    Numbers 15:27-31.

    This passage brings light on the difference between sins that can be forgiven and sins that will never be forgiven.

    27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

    28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

    29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

    30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

    31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

    The two main divisions of sins are

    1. Sins of ignorance - can be forgiven

    2. Presumptuous sins - will not be forgiven

    But the terms "sins of ignorance" and "presumptuous sins" must be carefully interpreted so as to not yield a wrong doctrine.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Page 1.

    Much could be written SolaScrip, on what you've stated & also written elsewhere by others. Maybe I'll state some fundamental Truths that have to be apprehended first. If we find disagreement in these, then any further discussion will be fruitless.

    The Ten Commandments & all of the commandments given by God were only given to Israel & no one else. No Gentile (person or nation) ever received any of them, nor has any Gentile ever required to come under them pre or post Cross. If you are of Jewish heritage, as I don't know who you are, then we could discuss this at another level.

    Jews who came under the Law, since Moses, (& also to those Gentiles who desire(d) to be placed under the Law), were required to obey every facet of the Law. If they broke even one Law, a severe punishment was meted out. Brother S.Spencer in this thread gave a very apt example in Numbers 15:32-36 of a man who gave no heed to the sanctity of the Sabbath & had to suffer death as a result - that was the Law: its nature, its demands, its punishment.

    The Jew had no choice as to which Laws (the Decalogue, civil, ceremonial, etc.) were more important to obey. They all stood equal & by it he was judged. Some Jews were very meticulous, as seen in Luke 18:18-25 (a genuine Law-keeper but failed under scrutiny: he broke the very first Commandment, maybe to his surprise). Why did Jesus even direct him to the Ten Commandments? That's all the Jews had & by it they would be judged unless they looked beyond the Law - by faith - to the One Who would put an end to the Law that only showed them their failure & brought death. What was the point of the Law: Galatians 3:19, the Law given "TILL the Seed should come". Could the Jew ever become righteous by the Law? ( Galatians 3:21-26).
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Hi Allen.

    To the Jews the sabbath was a day of rest. It was on the seventh day of the week,

    Deuteronomy 5:15. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

    They couldn't even gather sticks to burn to keep warm. Numbers 15:32-36.

    Today some are confused when they see people gather on Sunday and thinking Sunday is being made a Holy Day or replacing the Jewish Sabbath day which is ( Set apart/Holy for a day of rest )

    Ezekiel 20:19-20. I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;

    And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

    Being that the Sabbath is a day of rest and one would want to keep the sabbath he should understand what that rest represents.

    Do a study on Hebrews Ch 3 and 4 and see is keeping the sabbath and giving it merit enters you into his rest.

    Infact a good study in all of Hebrews would broaden our understanding.

    God bless.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Brother What you stated there is the difference between mental accent to Gods Word and actual committed believing action from the heart which requires a desire to do what it takes. God Bless
  • Number 15 - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Very well said. There are many scriptures in the Bible that God requires action and submission. Permit me to step out on a limb here if I could sum up the word of God in one word I would lean toward submission. Very well said. God Bless.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Hello ChrisE,

    Whether or not you are misunderstanding those verses, I have no way of answering that because I don't know your understanding of them. You're asking me how is it that you have life everlasting? If you tell me you have life everlasting, I would say you have everlasting life because you received Christ and you've been born of His Spirit, not because you simply believed.

    To be clear, I know that belief is important. But belief itself does not save anyone. If you are telling me that belief alone meets the requirement for salvation, I am going to have to disagree. In the early Church, the requirement for salvation was the presence of God's Spirit dwelling within a person ( Romans 8:9).

    The demons intellectually understand and believe the truth about God. And they recognize Christ, and they confess Him, and they honor Him. But they never surrender to Him. This tells me that belief alone does not save. A person must surrender their life to Christ in order to be saved.

    There are three things involved in the human life. There's the mind, there's the heart, and there's the mouth.

    In Romans Chapter 10, it says that if we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart that Christ is raised from the dead, that we shall be saved.

    And some people mistake the fact that you can just say with your lips those words, but if you just say with your lips those words, it's the mind and the lips, not the heart and the lips.

    There's a difference. Jesus said with the heart a man believes! I can believe with my mind. I can believe intellectual thoughts and truths about God, and not be surrendered to Him in my heart, my spirit. There's a difference between believing the truth with your mind and surrendering to Christ with your heart.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Jesse said: "a non-believer can become a believer and still not be forgiven. A person has to be born of God's Spirit in order to be forgiven and saved. Belief is important, but belief itself does not bring salvation. Receiving Jesus Christ and being born of His Spirit is what saves a person. With that salvation comes forgiveness."? According To Plain/Clear Scriptures?:

    Precious friend, then I must Misunderstand: "Repent, and Believe The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God"? = "Believe On CHRIST, His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, by GRACE Through faith {BELIEF, trust}." ( 1 Corinthians 15:3-4) ( Ephesians 2:5-9)?

    I must Misunderstand "trusting CHRIST" In ( Ephesians 1:12)? Also:

    "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of The LORD, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF of The Truth:" ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13)?

    "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE..." ( Romans 3:22)? compare ( Romans 4:11) ( Romans 4:24) ( 1 Corinthians 1:21) ( Galatians 3:22) ( Ephesians 1:19) ( Philippians 1:29) ( 1 Thessalonians 1:7) ( 1 Thessalonians 2:13) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14) ( 2 Thessalonians 1:10)

    Finally IF I BELIEVE, "but sins are NOT forgiven," how is it that I HAVE Life Everlasting, According To ALL The above Plain And Clear Scriptures About "BELIEF"?:

    "Howbeit for this cause I obtained MERCY, that in me first JESUS CHRIST might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter BELIEVE ON HIM to Life Everlasting." ( 1 Timothy 1:16)?

    Upon my BELIEF Of Truth, did not The Holy Spirit Baptize ( 1 Corinthians 12:13) me Into The Body Of CHRIST, God "forgiving my sins," in the twinkling of an eye?

    Now, IF you are referring to "water baptism for the remission of sins" that is altogether

    Another Different Bible study we could pursue, IF you wish...

    Respectfully, ChrisE
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Hello Ron,

    The short answer to that is yes. But I don't look at it as "if a non-believer sins" because a non-believer is living in a continuous state of sin whether they realize it or not. They may be a "good person," but until the sin remedy is taken care of, they are still in that continuous state of sin.

    Forgiveness of sin and salvation is offered to every human being through Jesus Christ. Romans 10:13 says "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." That's a promise! But not everyone will receive Him.

    Your question can be looked at in more than one way. In other words, a non-believer can become a believer and still not be forgiven. A person has to be born of God's Spirit in order to be forgiven and saved. Belief is important, but belief itself does not bring salvation. Receiving Jesus Christ and being born of His Spirit is what saves a person. With that salvation comes forgiveness.

    A person who has been born of God's Spirit has been forgiven, justified, declared not guilty, and is now in right standing with God. That person has also been sanctified, set apart for God's purposes. A genuine believer is one who has surrendered their life to Jesus Christ, one who has made Him Lord of their life. That person is the one who is forgiven!
  • Ron wilkinson - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Hi Jesse thank you for your answer. I have one more question. If a non believer sins can he become a believer and be forgiven?
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Hello Ron,

    Your original question had to do with the unpardonable sin. The bible teaches that the only sin that is unpardonable (cannot be forgiven) is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The word blasphemy means to reject. In order for a person to be saved, they must receive Christ. They must be born of His Spirit. A person must come to Jesus and surrender their life to Him.

    But Jesus said in John 6:44 that no one can come to Him unless the Father first draws them to Him. So God sends His Spirit to a person to convict them of their sin and their need of a Savior, the Savior being Jesus Christ. But if a person rejects the testimony of God's Spirit (Holy Spirit), that person cannot be saved, nor forgiven for that rejection. That is the unpardonable sin, rejecting the testimony of God's Spirit.

    Now to answer your other question. I would guess that most of us have heard the expression "Holy Blank" used before. But how often do we hear this come from the mouth of a person who is a true believer and is being led by God's Spirit which lives in them? I would like to think it would be rare. For the believer, we are told in Ephesians 4:29 to let no corrupt communication come out of our mouths.

    Now, even though the bible teaches us how to conduct ourselves (even in speech), if a believer were to slip up and let that phrase come out, that would not be considered blasphemy, definitely not the unpardonable sin because the believer has already been sanctified in Christ Jesus and did not reject His Spirit, but received Christ. However, it does nothing for the building up (edification) of the body of Christ. For the non-believer, they probably could care less!
  • Ron wilkinson - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Hi Jesse thanks for answering my question. I have another similar question. There is an expression used today that consists of two words. "Holy blank" Blank being a negative word not Holy. In fact the opposite, Is this blasphemy even though it's unfortunately a common expression?
  • A - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    I think that verse makes reference to knowingly committing a sin vs unknowingly committing sins specifically in relation to the 10 commandments. Remember at this time when people committed sins they needed to make blood offering of rams and animals alike.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Ron,

    I don't see Numbers 15:30-31 being connected to the unpardonable sin. To answer your question "Can a Gentile commit the unpardonable sin?" The answer to that is yes. It doesn't matter if a person is Jew or Gentile, anyone can commit the unpardonable sin. The word blasphemy means to reject. A person that rejects the testimony of God's Spirit when He comes to them and convicts them of their sin and shows them their need of a Savior, if they reject that testimony, they cannot be forgiven for that!
  • Ron wilkinson on Numbers 15 - 3 years ago
    Hi. My question: Is Numbers 15: 30 31 connected to the unpardonable sin in the New Testament. Can a Gentile commit the unpardonable sin? It say's native born or alien living among you are under the law.
  • Brother Dan - In Reply on Romans 5 - 3 years ago
    Brother Michael,

    You and others here are confusing and trying to complicate the issue....by trying to mix in the old ceremonial laws into the 10 Commandments.

    Below you state:

    Do you keep God's commandments by getting circumcised as per Leviticus 12:3?

    Do you keep God's commandments and dwell in booths for seven days every year as per Leviticus 23:42?

    Do you make fringes on the border of your garments as per God's commandment at Numbers 15:38?

    Do you go up to Jerusalem three times a year as per God's commandment at Exodus 23:17?

    God's 10 Commandments DO NOT include any of the above listed old testament ceremonial laws.

    Brother Michael: Do you believe this scripture verse below spoken by Jesus?

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    God bless
  • Michael - In Reply on Romans 5 - 3 years ago
    Hello Vince,

    Thank you for your response. Yes, we both agree that we must obey God's commandments and remain faithful until death to inherit the blessings. Where we don't, perhaps, see eye to eye is what are the commandments of God today.

    Do you keep God's commandments by getting circumcised as per Leviticus 12:3?

    Do you keep God's commandments and dwell in booths for seven days every year as per Leviticus 23:42?

    Do you make fringes on the border of your garments as per God's commandment at Numbers 15:38?

    Do you go up to Jerusalem three times a year as per God's commandment at Exodus 23:17?

    If you answer no, it seems to me that you don't, after all, obey God's commandments. Jesus and the Apostle John did not say, "If you obey the 10 commandments", but rather, "If you obey the commandments" (all the commandments). The question arises, though, which commandments?

    I would suggest the commandments of the New Covenant (or Testament) found in the portion of our Bibles called the New Testament.

    As for Matthew 5:17-18, please note one important point - it says till all be fulfilled. The purpose of the law was fulfilled when Christ offered up his perfect life in sacrifice. Then, it was done away with. Notice:

    Galatians 3:23-25 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law (a schoolmaster), shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore THE LAW WAS our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But AFTER that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (the law).

    That's why Jesus also said at the parallel account of Matthew 5:17-18 found at Luke 16:16.

    Luke 16:16 "The LAW and the prophets WERE UNTIL JOHN: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

    Then, Jesus set up the New Covenant.

    Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

    I welcome your further thoughts.

    Good day, Vince.
  • Victor - In Reply on Psalms 2 - 3 years ago
    Numbers 15:30

    "But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
  • Claire - In Reply on 1 John 3:12 - 4 years ago
    Hi David W Black,

    page 1



    I agree that Cain inherited his sinful nature from Adam. Before Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good & evil they knew no sin because they were made in the image of God. It was only after they ate from the tree that they new good & evil.

    Jesus is our role model on how we [should] live. [If] it was [impossible] for us to [sin no more] then Jesus wouldn't of commanded us to [do] it.

    John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: [sin no more], lest a worse thing come unto thee.

    John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and [sin no more].

    1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we [keep] his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    John 15:10 [If] ye [keep] my commandments, ye [shall] abide in my love; even as I have [kept] my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, [if] we [keep] his commandments.

    Leviticus 22:31 Therefore shall ye [keep] my commandments, and [do] them: I am the LORD.

    John 14:15 [If] ye love me, [keep] my commandments.

    Leviticus 26:3 [If] ye walk in my statutes, [and keep] my commandments, and [do] them;

    Numbers 15:40 That ye may remember, and [do] [all] my commandments, and [be holy] unto your God.

    Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, [and keep all] my commandments [always], that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!



    Proverbs 7:2 [Keep] my commandments, and [live]; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

    Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto [thousands] of them that [love me], [and keep] my commandments.

    Deuteronomy 5:10 And shewing mercy unto [thousands] of them that [love me] [and keep] my commandments.

    Deuteronomy 11:27 A blessing, [if] ye [obey] the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day.


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