So, if my understanding is correct, Gad and Reuben were not asking to inhabit land outside of what was promised to Abraham. If I am wrong in my understanding and the great river is the Jordan, then these tribes did not want to possess the land promised, but found the land adjacent to Canaan favorable for cattle. If this is the case, then it may seem like they made a decision similar to Lot, who chose land east of the Jordan river also which eventually brought much vexation to him due to the sinfulness of the inhabitants who worshipped idols and were sexually immoral. Will Gad and Reuben run into a similar vexation as Lot?
And it doesn't say when the half-tribe of Manasseh joined up with Gad and Reuben, but perhaps this was a given if all three were cattle ranchers.
I, for one, do not want to settle for less than what God has promised to those who of us who live by faith like Abraham. I don't want to stop short of receiving the fullness of deliverance and redemption from the kingdom of evil, the forgiveness of ALL my sins, and salvation from the wrath of God for my sin. I want to receive the "place" Jesus promised He was going to the Father to prepare us who follow Him. I want to receive the full inheritance as an adopted child of God. Therefore, I do not want to fall short in any way.
We shall see if these tribes actually made a decision that was based on the lead of God or by their own wisdom. Perhaps God intended this to be so that the eastern flank adjacent to Canaan was protected as a buffer from the strong nations in this eastern section or even farther eastward beyond the Euphrates. Maybe these tribes that raised cattle did need this expanse of land to have enough grazing land that was naturally replenished with forage for their cattle. Perhaps cattle need far more range for grazing than sheep or goats. Cattle on the west side of the Jordan would leave too little land for the remaining tribes to raise their crops and herds.
In this chapter we find that the tribes of Reuben and Gad saw that land around where the Israelites were camped east of the Jordan River was excellent for raising cattle. They approached Moses to ask if it was possible for them to take possession of this newly conquered land as their inheritance. Moses was concerned about the effect of this decision on the whole of Israel as it seems that Gad and Reuben were willing to settle for less than the land in Canaan. Moses referred back to the time of the spies sent to assess the land of Canaan and how this bad report affected the faith of the people, causing them to disbelieve that the land promised would be best for them. This disbelief led to the nation wandering in the wilderness for forty years instead of entering the land at the time of the spying. The generation who came out of Egypt died in the wilderness being disinherited by God for their disbelief. The next generation is now on the brink of entering the promised land once again. Moses is concerned that the actions of Gad and Reuben will discourage the other tribes from entering and conquering the peoples in order to possess the land promised to Abraham.
Moses also is concerned that the members of the tribes of Gad and Reuben will not accompany the other tribes into Canaan and participate in warring against the inhabitants of Canaan to take the land for their brethren. The tribes of Reuben, Gad, and the half tribe of Manasseh promise to go into the land with the other tribes as warriors, but their wives, children and cattle will be secured in the land east of the Jordan in fenced cities that will keep their families safe. Moses agreed to this plan but warned these tribes how breaking their promise to fight with their brethren would be sinful and would bring judgment from God upon them.
I'm not sure, but I remember that Abraham was promised the land he saw in all directions including east to the great river, which was the Euphrates. I may be wrong on this.
to continue---Moabites were the occupants of this land and Midianites, being nomadic, traversed in this land for portions of the year. Just as the Edomites were a mix of Ishmaelites and Esauites, Moab and Midian must have been mixed together and/or mixed with Ishmaelites and/or Esauites, too. All of these peoples from Ishmael, Midian, Esau, and Moab were related to the Israelites. But yet, they did not follow after Abraham and Jacob concerning faith in YHWH.
AS a result of the victory of this war, Israel had plundered the dwellings of the Midianites and taken all of the valuable jewelry, gold objects, herds of livestock and other materials that would be valuable to them as they entered the land.
God required a portion of this plunder to be given as a tithe to the Levites and as a heave offering to the LORD (which was not burnt on the altar, but offered to Him and then possessed by the priests. Even a portion of the children were given as a tithe, perhaps to be servants of the Levites and priests. The remaining children (all female) were then absorbed into the life of the Israelites as servants, slaves, or "adopted" by a family as if a child from them.
The men who had gone to war and killed others were required to separate from the congregation for 7 days and go through ceremonial cleansing of their bodies, clothing, weapons, etc. All of the plunder was also to be cleansed first with fire, if the material could be refined by fire, and then by water, or only by water if fire would consume the item. All this was done according to the word of the LORD so that the people would be cleansed from the taking of life and damages of war. Even though God had sent them to war and it was not sinful for them to kill the Midianites, God most likely wanted the Israelites to understand that the shedding of blood and taking of life is a big deal. Perhaps God wanted to prevent them from developing a blood-thirsty attitude but to have an obedient and reverent one instead.
Sin and the multifaceted aspects vs. the Spirit filled life
Surely; our sins will find us out ( Numbers 32:23). As will all things we say in the closet will be spoken on the rooftops ( Luke 12:3). Even Paul struggled as he said that he continued to do things that he hates ( Romans 7:15).
As long as we exist in these mortal fallable bodies our capacity for sin remains. That will; of course be done away with when the "perishable puts on the imperishable" ( 1 Cor. 15:53-57). As for now; we must remain "proactive" in order to catch things at the pass before they affect our minds; and then take a foothold on our souls.
The imaginations of men and the mind is where Satan takes a foothold. Romans 12:2 tells us to be thus "transformed by the renewing of our minds."
To understand sin we must see the root of the problem that is; our sin "nature". Such a term isn't specifically used in scripture; but we see how the "INTENT of the thoughts of their hearts were only evil continually." ( Gen. 6:5). I highlighted the word intent to show that there is a deliberate desire to sin; once men are totally unrestrained and we see this reflected in society today. Such behaviors also result in what happens in Romans 1:32 where sins of others are celebrated; as it were. Such is evident in many movements and demonstrations today.
There are specific ways in which sins have a stronghold; these include repeated patterns and established habits; family upbringing; demonic influence as to enhanced appeal of sensual and other experiences (or "highs") whether drug induced or not; music; support from friends; and other individual circumstances. The difference; of course between a true Christian and the rest of the world is that now we have the choice to pursue His righteousness and live in grace as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us. This allows us to be "treasure in earthen vessels" ( 2 Cor. 4:7) living out our days in fear (see 1 Peter 1:17).
The Body of Christ and our relation to it is compared to a mystery ( Eph. 5:32). Sacrifice and devotion to someone else that has become part of ourselves with a marriage is somewhat of a similarity to our relationship with our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Probably the most apt analogy is that when we are busy in fellowship with one another that we forget the importance of our own needs and they really don't seem that vital anymore. It should be noted however that within the fellowship of the saints there is the best means to find answers through the wisdom of the Spirit and other gifts working in the saints. What is best for us could also be described as similar to that of a parent to a child in such surroundings; people that are tightly knit look out for one another and are able to help us to keep boundaries and hopefully accountability in our lives. This; of course is a two way street; we shouldn't expect a hypocritical standard where the leadership can live in open rebellion while expecting everyone else to have a legalistic standard. Numbers 32:23 indicates that our "sins shall find us out."
Trust of course is an important element whether in human relationships or those in fellowship corporately. Much has been said of tactfulness and sensitivity; and for those who are open to rebuke and have a "broken and contrite spirit" ( Psalm 51) that surely is effective. When it comes to more difficult people or situations then there needs to be a track record which the saints can trust leadership to handle things effectively. That is also similar to the vows and marriage covenant in that there is accountability and standards agreed to which has something to do with our doctrinal statement of faith; but is directly tied into our commitment to Christ. That is obviously beyond just a verbal assent to believe in Christ; but when we become church members such vows normally are made with consequences spelled out for rebellious action.
Here's a verse where it's often used as the maximum age of accountability.
Numbers 32:11. Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:
Numbers 14:31-35. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.
After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.
I'm sorry Victor, I can't answer your question. I've tried to research it, but I'm not even able to learn who were the leaders of those tribes (apart from their original name-sakes). All we know, as stated earlier, that the east part of the Jordan was apparently very fertile & well grassed, so it appears that Reuben, Gad & the half-tribe of Manasseh were more inclined to rear cattle & sheep. So maybe the division of Manasseh was dependent on those who pursued this occupation, rather than of a specific sub-family tree within Manasseh that decided to stay there.
Manasseh, one of the 12 tribes of Israel that in biblical times comprised the people of Israel. The tribe was named after a younger son of Joseph, himself a son of Jacob.
After the Exodus from Egypt and the death of Moses, the Israelites entered the Promised Land under the leadership of Joshua, who assigned a territory to each of the 12 tribes. The tribe of Manasseh settled in central Palestine-some to the east, some to the west of the Jordan River. When the independent kingdom of Israel, established by the 10 northern tribes after the death of King Solomon (10th century BC), was conquered by the Assyrians in the late 8th century BC, many Israelites were carried off into slavery. In time the tribe of Manasseh was assimilated by other peoples and thus became known in legend as one of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Among the most illustrious members of the tribe of Manasseh was Gideon, a fearless warrior who served as judge for 40 years.
Even though it isn't declared in Numbers 32 that the half-tribe of Manasseh asked for the land to the east of the Jordan, it is understood that they did, as Numbers 32:33 indicate that Reuben, Gad & the half-tribe of Manasseh were given the land on the proviso that they first helped their brethren in the battle to capture the land to the west of the Jordan.
However, a Jewish commentator has seen this differently. He refers to Genesis 48:21,22 when he believes that this decision for the half-tribe of Manasseh to remain on the other side was based on the promise by Israel to Joseph "to give one portion above thy brethren". So he sees this as Moses' decision & not a wish on Manasseh's part. Whatever the truth of the matter, the half-tribe didn't seem to object to it, as that area "was a place of cattle" ( Numbers 32:1) & so it seemed to be a wise decision for their prosperity, as was for Reuben & Gad.
17
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. How would they know if the women were virgins or not? And why kill the little ones? Seems to be overkill to me. Only the young girls was not killed?
I agree with margaret, yet i know not the intents of the cattle people that wanted to inherit land outside of the jews promised land. god knows best. there could have been negative consequences for the cowboys that made the choice to settle outside of the promised land. i'm sure the land outside of the promised land looked favorable. sometimes the enemy can put that spoke in our wheel, to get it out of balance. i'm not the man of faith for the hour. this just my thought. only god knows!
God accomplishes what He determines sets out to do. What is remarkable is the length of time as we experience time His people were in the desert AND how He still provided everything for them, DAY and NIGHT! God's love and care is not implicit, it's identifiable at every turn. Caleb and Joshua following wholeheartedly is an example to us all. Amen
This chapter shows the grace of GOD upon the leadership . As GOD has us walk in liberty while we do not neglect our responsibilities to others.And these tribes pledged to fulfill those, while content with such surroundings as they beheld at that time suitable to their calling as cattlemen.Godliness with contentment is great gain.Should we judge them to be covetous or wise. If 2 agree as touching anything - - - Ask and it shall be given - - - but to communicate forget not.We are called to liberty ,but let not our liberty give occasion to the flesh.They submitted their request and were given an answer they accepted.v 25.
So, if my understanding is correct, Gad and Reuben were not asking to inhabit land outside of what was promised to Abraham. If I am wrong in my understanding and the great river is the Jordan, then these tribes did not want to possess the land promised, but found the land adjacent to Canaan favorable for cattle. If this is the case, then it may seem like they made a decision similar to Lot, who chose land east of the Jordan river also which eventually brought much vexation to him due to the sinfulness of the inhabitants who worshipped idols and were sexually immoral. Will Gad and Reuben run into a similar vexation as Lot?
And it doesn't say when the half-tribe of Manasseh joined up with Gad and Reuben, but perhaps this was a given if all three were cattle ranchers.
I, for one, do not want to settle for less than what God has promised to those who of us who live by faith like Abraham. I don't want to stop short of receiving the fullness of deliverance and redemption from the kingdom of evil, the forgiveness of ALL my sins, and salvation from the wrath of God for my sin. I want to receive the "place" Jesus promised He was going to the Father to prepare us who follow Him. I want to receive the full inheritance as an adopted child of God. Therefore, I do not want to fall short in any way.
We shall see if these tribes actually made a decision that was based on the lead of God or by their own wisdom. Perhaps God intended this to be so that the eastern flank adjacent to Canaan was protected as a buffer from the strong nations in this eastern section or even farther eastward beyond the Euphrates. Maybe these tribes that raised cattle did need this expanse of land to have enough grazing land that was naturally replenished with forage for their cattle. Perhaps cattle need far more range for grazing than sheep or goats. Cattle on the west side of the Jordan would leave too little land for the remaining tribes to raise their crops and herds.
Moses also is concerned that the members of the tribes of Gad and Reuben will not accompany the other tribes into Canaan and participate in warring against the inhabitants of Canaan to take the land for their brethren. The tribes of Reuben, Gad, and the half tribe of Manasseh promise to go into the land with the other tribes as warriors, but their wives, children and cattle will be secured in the land east of the Jordan in fenced cities that will keep their families safe. Moses agreed to this plan but warned these tribes how breaking their promise to fight with their brethren would be sinful and would bring judgment from God upon them.
I'm not sure, but I remember that Abraham was promised the land he saw in all directions including east to the great river, which was the Euphrates. I may be wrong on this.
AS a result of the victory of this war, Israel had plundered the dwellings of the Midianites and taken all of the valuable jewelry, gold objects, herds of livestock and other materials that would be valuable to them as they entered the land.
God required a portion of this plunder to be given as a tithe to the Levites and as a heave offering to the LORD (which was not burnt on the altar, but offered to Him and then possessed by the priests. Even a portion of the children were given as a tithe, perhaps to be servants of the Levites and priests. The remaining children (all female) were then absorbed into the life of the Israelites as servants, slaves, or "adopted" by a family as if a child from them.
The men who had gone to war and killed others were required to separate from the congregation for 7 days and go through ceremonial cleansing of their bodies, clothing, weapons, etc. All of the plunder was also to be cleansed first with fire, if the material could be refined by fire, and then by water, or only by water if fire would consume the item. All this was done according to the word of the LORD so that the people would be cleansed from the taking of life and damages of war. Even though God had sent them to war and it was not sinful for them to kill the Midianites, God most likely wanted the Israelites to understand that the shedding of blood and taking of life is a big deal. Perhaps God wanted to prevent them from developing a blood-thirsty attitude but to have an obedient and reverent one instead.
Surely; our sins will find us out ( Numbers 32:23). As will all things we say in the closet will be spoken on the rooftops ( Luke 12:3). Even Paul struggled as he said that he continued to do things that he hates ( Romans 7:15).
As long as we exist in these mortal fallable bodies our capacity for sin remains. That will; of course be done away with when the "perishable puts on the imperishable" ( 1 Cor. 15:53-57). As for now; we must remain "proactive" in order to catch things at the pass before they affect our minds; and then take a foothold on our souls.
The imaginations of men and the mind is where Satan takes a foothold. Romans 12:2 tells us to be thus "transformed by the renewing of our minds."
To understand sin we must see the root of the problem that is; our sin "nature". Such a term isn't specifically used in scripture; but we see how the "INTENT of the thoughts of their hearts were only evil continually." ( Gen. 6:5). I highlighted the word intent to show that there is a deliberate desire to sin; once men are totally unrestrained and we see this reflected in society today. Such behaviors also result in what happens in Romans 1:32 where sins of others are celebrated; as it were. Such is evident in many movements and demonstrations today.
There are specific ways in which sins have a stronghold; these include repeated patterns and established habits; family upbringing; demonic influence as to enhanced appeal of sensual and other experiences (or "highs") whether drug induced or not; music; support from friends; and other individual circumstances. The difference; of course between a true Christian and the rest of the world is that now we have the choice to pursue His righteousness and live in grace as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us. This allows us to be "treasure in earthen vessels" ( 2 Cor. 4:7) living out our days in fear (see 1 Peter 1:17).
More on walking in faith later.
The Body of Christ and our relation to it is compared to a mystery ( Eph. 5:32). Sacrifice and devotion to someone else that has become part of ourselves with a marriage is somewhat of a similarity to our relationship with our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Probably the most apt analogy is that when we are busy in fellowship with one another that we forget the importance of our own needs and they really don't seem that vital anymore. It should be noted however that within the fellowship of the saints there is the best means to find answers through the wisdom of the Spirit and other gifts working in the saints. What is best for us could also be described as similar to that of a parent to a child in such surroundings; people that are tightly knit look out for one another and are able to help us to keep boundaries and hopefully accountability in our lives. This; of course is a two way street; we shouldn't expect a hypocritical standard where the leadership can live in open rebellion while expecting everyone else to have a legalistic standard. Numbers 32:23 indicates that our "sins shall find us out."
Trust of course is an important element whether in human relationships or those in fellowship corporately. Much has been said of tactfulness and sensitivity; and for those who are open to rebuke and have a "broken and contrite spirit" ( Psalm 51) that surely is effective. When it comes to more difficult people or situations then there needs to be a track record which the saints can trust leadership to handle things effectively. That is also similar to the vows and marriage covenant in that there is accountability and standards agreed to which has something to do with our doctrinal statement of faith; but is directly tied into our commitment to Christ. That is obviously beyond just a verbal assent to believe in Christ; but when we become church members such vows normally are made with consequences spelled out for rebellious action.
Hopefully these are helpful
Hopefully these are helpful
Here's a verse where it's often used as the maximum age of accountability.
Numbers 32:11. Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:
Numbers 14:31-35. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.
After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.
God bless you
Thank you
God be with you!
After the Exodus from Egypt and the death of Moses, the Israelites entered the Promised Land under the leadership of Joshua, who assigned a territory to each of the 12 tribes. The tribe of Manasseh settled in central Palestine-some to the east, some to the west of the Jordan River. When the independent kingdom of Israel, established by the 10 northern tribes after the death of King Solomon (10th century BC), was conquered by the Assyrians in the late 8th century BC, many Israelites were carried off into slavery. In time the tribe of Manasseh was assimilated by other peoples and thus became known in legend as one of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Among the most illustrious members of the tribe of Manasseh was Gideon, a fearless warrior who served as judge for 40 years.
thanks again!
However, a Jewish commentator has seen this differently. He refers to Genesis 48:21,22 when he believes that this decision for the half-tribe of Manasseh to remain on the other side was based on the promise by Israel to Joseph "to give one portion above thy brethren". So he sees this as Moses' decision & not a wish on Manasseh's part. Whatever the truth of the matter, the half-tribe didn't seem to object to it, as that area "was a place of cattle" ( Numbers 32:1) & so it seemed to be a wise decision for their prosperity, as was for Reuben & Gad.
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. How would they know if the women were virgins or not? And why kill the little ones? Seems to be overkill to me. Only the young girls was not killed?
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