Discuss Obadiah 1 Page 2

Jesus christ is coming soon

Brother Dan:

Do you believe God will send sinners to hell:

Is GRACE not what abounds to all men, man says you have to believe, Grace says at each man's appointed time; GRACE will CAUSE you to believe. You don't Chose me, I CHOSE YOU.

Philippians 1:29 For it is GIVEN TO YOU on the behalf of Christ, TO BELIEVE ON HIM....

Brother Dan, you were GRACED, being able to BELIEVE, you are chosen to be a vessel of honour, but God chooses to make some men to be vessels of dishonour.

Does GRACE not also apply to them, and when God GRACES them with BELIEF they will RESPOND.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTION OF GRACE.

Romans 11:6 An if by grace, then it is no more of works, otherwise it is no more grace.....

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also NOT NOW BELIEVED, that through YOUR MERCY they may obtain MERCY.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Ephesians 2:7 That in THE AGES TO COME he might show the exceeding riches OF HIS GRACE in his kindness toward us through Jesus Christ.

God Bless You.

Brother Chris, man nor anything else can exist without LIFE and there is only one LIFE and that LIFE is Christ.

All creation has CHRIST IN YOU. They believe they have life of and in themselves, their deceived.

If Christ removed himself, man would cease to exist.

Creation's problem is they have no KNOWLEDGE, their void of TRUTH.

Christ came to destroy the works of the devil.

When Christ has put all thing under his feet, God will be ALL IN ALL.

Ephesians 4:6 There is one God and Father of all, and above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.

ALL CREATION, but they have no KNOWLEDGE.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount ZION to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord, as the ware covers the seas.

Brother Chris You and I and all the elect of God with our brother and Lord, Jesus Christ, are going to CAUSE this to happen when ALL MANKIND is resurrected back to their flesh, and JUDGED by the TRUTH of God's word. And God WILL BE ALL IN ALL.

Genesis 36:1, Hebrews 11:20, Hebrews 12:14-17,

Important scriptures on why= Hebrews 12:16

Obadiah 1:1-21,

Obadiah 1:10,11,12,13,14

Hopefully these are helpful in your discussion & understanding.

Sister GiGi, I quoted scripture;

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

We are being created in the image of Christ, we will be exactly like him and will judge exactly like him.

Do you believe the saints are going to judge the word.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the JUDGEMENT WRITTEN: this honour hath all the saints.

God Bless You!

Brother Jesse: Joseph was a saviour, just as we are going to be, when Christ and his elect judge the world.

Obadiah 1:21

Genesis 45:7 And God sent me before you to SAVE a posterity in the earth, and to SAVE your lives by a great deliverance.



Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to SAVE much people alive.

Joseph was a shadow as was Moses, Adam, Noah, etc. etc. to reveal the TRUE saviour of ALL MANKIND.

Brother S Spencer:

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are they (the ELECT). They have become Son's of God, to judge the earth.

For WITHOUT are those raised back in the flesh to be judged.

This judgement is happening on earth after the second resurrection (Could take a thousand years or more, this is hinted at in the prophets).

Revelation 5:10 And hath made us unto our God kings and priest to REIGN ON EARTH.

Revelation 2:26 An he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, will I GIVE POWER over the nations: (that are raised back to earthy flesh to be judged)

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule (JUDGE) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter they shall be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father ( Psalms 2:8-10).

Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be (lake of) A FIRE, and the the house of Joseph A FLAME ( Luke 16:24), and the house of Esau as STUBBLE, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Christ and his brothers the SON'S OF GOD) shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the house of Esau, and the Kingdom (ON EARTH) shall be the LORD'S.

Jeremiah 51:19-23

Only the elect will have a glorified body at this time, all other will still have earthly bodies.

Genesis 27:41

And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said IN HIS HEART, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; THEN will I my brother Jacob.

Romans 9:13

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:3

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Obadiah 1:18

And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

KJV Commentary: Esau means

Hairy, Rebekah's first-born twin son ( Gen. 25:25). The name of Edom, "red", was also given to him from his conduct in connection with the red lentil pottage for which he sold his birthright (30, 31). The circumstances connected with his birth foreshadowed the enmity which afterwards subsisted between the "twin brothers and the nations they founded (25:22, 23, 26). In the process of time Jacob following his natural bent, became a shepherd; while Esau, a "son of the desert," devoted himself to the perilous and toilsome life of a huntsman. On a certain occasion, on returning from the chase, urged by the cravings of hunger, Esau SOLD his birthright to his brother, Jacob, who thereby obtained the covenant blessing ( Gen. 27:28, 29, 36; Heb. 12:16, 17). He afterwards tried to regain what he had so recklessly parted with, but was defeated in his attempts through the stealth of his brother ( Gen. 27:4, 34, 38). At the age of forty years, to the great grief of his parents, he "married ( Gen. 26:34, 35) two Canaanite maidens,

Esau tried to conciliate his parents ( Gen. 28:8, 9) by marrying his cousin Mahalath, the daughter of Ishmael. This led him to cast in his lot with the "Ishmaelite tribes (present day Palestinians) and driving the Horites out of Mount Seir, he settled in that region.

Sister Shirley, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of the SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberty of the CHILDREN OF GOD.

When God has gathered all the Sons of GOD (those being born again NOW), then he will resurrect all the dead back into their flesh and those sons with him will JUDGE THE EARTH.

Isaiah 26:9 .... For when thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged .....

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall have been subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

Does this sound like God is going to send men to hell INSTEAD OF SAVING THEM.

Genesis 27:41

And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said IN HIS HEART, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; THEN will I SLAY my brother Jacob.

Romans 9:13

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:3

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Obadiah 1:18

And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

KJV Commentary: Esau means

Hairy, Rebekah's first-born twin son ( Gen. 25:25). The name of Edom, "red", was also given to him from his conduct in connection with the red lentil pottage for which he sold his birthright (30, 31). The circumstances connected with his birth foreshadowed the enmity which afterwards subsisted between the twin brothers and the nations they founded (25:22, 23, 26). In the process of time Jacob following his natural bent, became a shepherd; while Esau, a son of the desert, devoted himself to the perilous and toilsome life of a huntsman. On a certain occasion, on returning from the chase, urged by the cravings of hunger, Esau SOLD his birthright to his brother, Jacob, who thereby obtained the covenant blessing ( Gen. 27:28, 29, 36; Heb. 12:16, 17). He afterwards tried to regain what he had so recklessly parted with, but was defeated in his attempts through the stealth of his brother ( Gen. 27:4, 34, 38). At the age of forty years, to the great grief of his parents, he "married ( Gen. 26:34, 35) two Canaanite maidens,

Esau tried to conciliate his parents ( Gen. 28:8, 9) by marrying his cousin Mahalath, the daughter of Ishmael. This led him to cast in his lot with the "Ishmaelite tribes (present day Palestinians) and driving the Horites out of Mount Seir, he settled in that region.

Brother Chris, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT .....

Christ, (which is, and which was, and which is to come Revelation 1:8); IS, the ONLY ONE BODY. The VESSEL of the ONLY ONE SPIRIT. We (the firstfruits of SPIRIT)( 1 Corinthians 15:23)( Romans 8:23) become the BODY OF CHRIST ( 1 Timothy 6:16)( 1 Corinthians 15:52-55).

The SPIRIT (the source of POWER) provides ALL, the BODY does all the LABOUR. Christ has everything needed at his disposal at all times; but the SPIRIT ONLY releases it (the power)to THE BODY at the given moment it is required. I am not saying that Christ IS NOT GOD, because HE IS; it takes both (faith and labour)( James 2:17) to be GOD, SPIRIT (the SOURCE) and THE BODY (the LABOUR).

Everything is done by SPIRIT (the WORKS of the FATHER) THROUGH (the labour) of the SON.

Christ emptied HIMSELF of the Father's glory ( John 17:5) that he had with him since the beginning, and became sinful flesh, to be destroyed.

He does't know in advance the second coming, because he is given what is required, as it is required ( John 5:19)( John 5:30), just as we are ( John 15:5). We are being created like him A VESSEL OF THE SPIRIT ( Revelation 10:11).

1 Corinthians 15:28 When ALL THINGS shall be SUBJECTED to him, then shall the Son ALSO HIMSELF be SUBJECT to him (the source of power) that put all things under him that GOD (Spirit, Truth, Life) may be ALL IN ALL.

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put ALL in subjection under him, he left nothing that IS NOT PUT under him, But we see NOT YET (but we will see; at the resurrection of the dead) ALL THINGS put under him.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS ( John 17:21) shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau (the world); and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.

Isaiah 26:9 ....when thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Precious friends, 'Which' Day are we, The Body Of CHRIST 'To look, watch, and wait for'?

Please prayerfully/Carefully Consider, for Encouragement and Comfort ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)

The Day Of CHRIST:

"Mystery" CHURCH: Designated as the "Heavenly" Day of CHRIST, Which Will Be The Day Of the consummation of our salvation (into glorification!), And, Presenting of our "rewards!" (Phi 1:6; Phi 1:10; Philippians 1:6,10, Phi 2:16; 1 Corinthians 1:8, 1 Co 3:8-15; 2 Corinthians 1:14).

Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Day Of The LORD:

Israel's KINGDOM: Designated as the "Earthly" Day Of The LORD, which will be, first

of all, a day of Judgment to be followed by the establishment of the Kingdom!

( Isaiah 13:9-16, Isa 24:21-23, Isa 26:20-21, Isaiah 34:1-35:10; Isa 34; Isa 35:1-10; Ezekiel 30:3; Joel 1:15, Joe 2:1-11, Joel 2:1-11; Amos 5:16-20; Obadiah 1:15-21; Zephaniah 1:14-18; Zephaniah 14:1-21; Malachi 4:1-6; Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 2:19-21)

Portion of C.R. Stam Article: Link

or:

(Full Article: "The Day of the Lord -- What Is It?" - by Pastor Cornelius R. Stam)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, today?)

Brother adam, may christ in is grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.

romans 9:18 therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

romans 9:19 thou wilt say unto me, why doth he yet find fault (say we sin)? for who hath resisted his will?

no one has resisted his will; therefore, no one has free will.

philippians 2:13 for it is god (spirit) that worketh in you both to will (his will not your free will) and to do his good pleasure.

ephesians 1:11 in whom we also have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him, who worketh all things after the council of his will.

the father is at present calling out; only, the chosen (by his will; those to be priest and judges in the kingdom of god).

obadiah 1:21 and saviours (the elect) shall come upon mount zion to judge the mount of esau (at the resurrection of the dead), and the the kingdom shall be the lord's.

romans 8:19 for the earnest expectation of creation waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of god (the seed of christ, the elect, the chosen, the judges, the saviours).

romans 8:21 for the creature (creation) itself also shall be delivered (through judgement) from the bondage of corruption (flesh) into the liberty of the sons of god.

isaiah 26:9 ......for when thy judgements (at the resurrection of the dead) are in the earth the world will learn righteousness.

proverbs 16:6 by mercy and truth iniquity is purged ......

romans 11:31 even so have these (the vessels of dishonour that god hardened) also not believed, that through your mercy (at the judgement of the dead) they also obtain mercy.

god has a plan for all creation, god's will, will be done.

If Gog/thebeast(of Revelation), anti-christ did all that God asked of him, by destroying Israel/Babylon, then what turned God against hisprized army? Theanswer is "at thesame time" by doing God's will, thebeastthinks an "evil thought".

Ezekiel 38:10-13

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that AT THE SAME TIME shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an EVIL THOUGHT:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Daniel has a connection to vs 13 above:

( Daniel 7:24) And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them (anti-christ); and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings, [Sheba, and Dedan, and Tarshish].

( Daniel 11:42) He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. [Saudi Arabia, Egypt & Turkey?]

The beast attacks 3 of 10 nations gathered unto him, nations dis-loyal thatsurround Israel. He subdues and spoils them by ground warfare (like Judah), not by annihilating them to dust like the house of Israel (Isaiah:13). God is mad because this violence has destroyed earth, knocked it off its axis ( Isaiah 24: 18) the sun, moon are ashamed. anti-christseeks a "Greater Israel Project" of his own, with limited time.

Obadiah 1:10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

This is the 1st time we hear claim of violence against Esau. In real life, the last time Esau and Jacob saw each was on the trail, and Jacob feared Esau would kill him for stealing the birthright, ( Genesis 33). Any previous mention of Gog/the beast anti-christ were glowing. God used Esau's "sanctified" beast army to defeat Jacob (Babylon); anti-christ's army are described as "even them that rejoice in my highness". Gog/beast are Christian's from a (frozen) desert ( Isaiah 21:1). The times God brags about His "northern army" are many.

He calls anti-christ's army, "His army", His "sanctified ones" and "His camp".

( Isaiah 13: 3-6) I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.

4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

( Joel 2:11) And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

What did Esau do to change God's mind into HATING him? Esau did God's will and destroyed Babylon, so what happened beyond that? What violence does anti-christ do to infuriate God?

OSEAS,

Get ready for what? Repeating scripture without added insight is fruitless, I can't logically follow your vision. The 3 evil spirits are what lures the feuding armies together. You're telling me things I do not subscribe to, or it's backed up with scripture that I assign another meaning to.

Follow this pattern: Esau, Red, Edom, Russia, king of the north, beast. Obadiah 1:10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever. It is Esau (Russia) coming forth to conquer Jacob (whole house of Israel). Throughout history, Russia has been held back from the spotlight, made poor with a small people. Ezekiel 38:4 And I WILL TURN THEE BACK, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I WILL BRING THEE FORTH, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Anything new can take some time to sink in, that is unless you are in doubt, and a teacher explains it in a way that instantly satisfies your heart. That's the best way to acquire wisdom, naturally.

Sissy, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You will get two schools of thought on what happens to us at the death of our body of flesh.

I DON'T BELIEVE in a general rapture of the church; I BELIEVE we are gathered ONE BY ONE.

Isaiah 27:12

Matthew 24:40

I BELIEVE each believer is given HIS REWARD at the death of our body of flesh.

Our REWARD is ETERNAL LIFE and a BODY LIKE CHRIST. We become the IMAGE of Christ.

Colossians 1:15

Colossians 3:10

Romans 8:29

Every believer will receive the SAME REWARD; but different GLORIES.

Matthew 20:1-16

Romans 2:11

1 Corinthians 15:41

I BELIEVE when we leave our bodies of flesh we begin ruling and judging with Christ in the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 20:4

Obadiah 1:21

GBU

Genesis 27:41

And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said IN HIS HEART, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I SLAY my brother Jacob.

Romans 9:13

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:3

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Obadiah 1:18

And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

KJV Commentary: Esau

Hairy, Rebekah's first-born twin son ( Gen. 25:25). The name of" "Edom, "red", was also given to him from his conduct in" "connection with the red lentil "pottage" for which he sold his" "birthright (30, 31). The circumstances connected with his birth" foreshadowed the enmity which afterwards subsisted between the "twin brothers and the nations they founded (25:22, 23, 26). In" "process of time JACOB following his natural bent, became a" "shepherd; while Esau, a "son of the desert," devoted himself to" the perilous and toilsome life of a huntsman. On a certain "occasion, on returning from the chase, urged by the cravings of" "hunger, Esau sold his birthright to his brother, Jacob, who" "thereby obtained the covenant blessing ( Gen. 27:28, 29, 36; Heb." "12:16, 17). He afterwards tried to regain what he had so" "recklessly parted with, but was defeated in his attempts through" "the stealth of his brother ( Gen. 27:4, 34, 38)." "At the age of forty years, to the great grief of his parents, he "married ( Gen. 26:34, 35) two Canaanite maidens,

Esau tried to conciliate his" "parents ( Gen. 28:8, 9) by marrying his cousin Mahalath, the" daughter of Ishmael. This led him to cast in his lot with the "Ishmaelite tribes (present day Palestinians) and driving the Horites out of Mount Seir, he" settled in that region.

Brother Kevin, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

We were predestined to become SONS OF GOD and all that that implies.

Christ was the FIRSTBORN (Son of God) of creation; Christ is now CALLING OUT the ones in the age we are presently in; to be a PREISTHOOD (Sons of God; recreated into HIS exact likeness). These are the children of the first resurrection. These are the ones that will judge the world with Christ and bring righteousness to the earth. This is one of those HARD THINGS to UNDERSTAND. At the death of your body you will be GIVEN a glorified body (you will be GIVEN the FULLNESS of Christ). You will become a consuming FIRE like Christ. You will be OMNIPRESENT; able to judge in the form of SPIRIT, just like Christ; or stand in visible form, just like Christ. Man can't comprehend this so they teach traditions of man; you go to heaven and set in you easy chair eating chocolates. This is what all the saints that have gone before us are doing RIGHT NOW. They are MINISTERING SPIRITS in glorified bodies ministering to the ones (us) that are going to be HEIRS of salvation. ( Hebrews 1:14)

Revelation 20:4 The thousand year reign is not literally one thousand years; but symbolic of the ONE DAY (day of the Lord). This one day (a day called today) has been going on for 2000 years and will continue until all of Christ's PRIESTS have been put in place.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Sons of God) shall come up on mount Zion and JUDGE the mount of Esau; and the kingdom (CHRIST IN YOU) shall be the LORD'S.

SONS OF GOD IN NEXT AGE

May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH (till the second resurrection) for the manifestation of the Sons of God.

Romans 8:21 For the creature (creation) ITSELF shall BE DELIVERED (in the next age) from the bondage of corruption (death an grave) into the glorious LIBERTY OF THE SONS OF GOD.

Obadiah 1:17 And upon mount Zion SHALL BE DELIVERANCE (in the next age), and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob (sons of God) shall possess their possessions.

Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob (sons of God) shall be a FIRE (created in Christ image and likeness; spiritual fire), and the house of Joseph (sons of God) a FLAME (spiritual fire), and the house of Esau (those resurrected back into their flesh) for stubble (to be burned and destroyed by SPIRITUAL FIRE), and they (sons of God) shall kindle IN THEM (Christ in you)(spiritual fire), and devour them (their flesh); and there shall not be any remaining (flesh; worldliness) of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath SPOKEN IT.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (sons of God now exactly created into Christ image) shall come upon mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; AND THE KINGDOM SHALL BE THE LORD'S.

Part 1 continued:

( Ezekiel 21:12) Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people,...smite therefore upon thy thigh. "smite therefore upon thy thigh" is reference to Jacob wrestling an angel for the birthright he obtained from a hungry Esau, for a bowl of lentil soup. Wrestling the angel permanently injured Jacob's thigh ( Genesis 32:24-25). Seen as our "Jacob's time of trouble"; the great tribulation.

God made both Gog and Esau "small" and "despised "( Obadiah 1:2) Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.

( Daniel 11:23) And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

( Matthew 24:21-22) For then shall be great tribulation....

( 2 Thessalonians 2:3) The falling away is the abomination of desolation.

( Mark 13:14) ( Matthew 24:15)

( 2 Peter 3:10) (Mathew 3:11)

( Amos 5:18) ( Amos 5:20)

( Daniel 11:31)

( Revelation 17:16-17)

( Daniel 9:27)

( Jeremiah 51:53)

( Revelation 18) vs 20 ...for in one hour is she made desolate.

( Revelation 18:9-10) ...for in one hour is thy judgment come. ( Ezekiel 18:26)

( Daniel 12:6-7)

Israel (house) is notably attacked [from the south to the north]:

( Ezekiel 21:2-4) And say to the land of Israel (northern kingdom),...therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh [from the south to the north].

( Ezekiel 20:46-47) ....Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree:...and all faces [from the south to the north] shall be burned therein.

( Isaiah 21:1) ....As whirlwinds in [the south pass through]; so it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land (Gog's land)

( Job 37:9)

( Isaiah 24) "Day of the Lord" aftermath.

( Revelation 9:18) By these three was the third part of men killed...

Part 3 continued:

Gog has 42 months, minus 1 hour of absolute power left. The lead house of Israel was defeated ( Ezekiel 21:12) in the like manner as Babylon ( Isaiah 47). antichrist sets up his beast 'marked' government.

( Daniel 9:25) ...and to build Jerusalem the street shall be built again, and the wall (temple)...

( 2 Thessalonians 2:4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

( Daniel 2:41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided...

( Daniel 11:44) But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy...

( Amos 1:6) The Philistines raided Judah under king Joram ( 2 Chronicles 21:16-17). They sold their captives to the archenemy of Israel, the Edomites.

( Obadiah 1:10) For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

( Obadiah 1:8) Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

( Obadiah 6 & 7) All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee....

( Revelation 16:16) ....And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Gog's 42 months of power are coming to a close. His army is feuding to a point where, if allowed to, they would completely destroy the earth. This is the sole reason for the second coming of Jesus Christ: to prevent armies from ending the planet. When they of Revelation 16:16 see Christ's brightness upon Mt Olive, they will come down to the slaughter.

Daniel, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You ask why Jacob is bad mouthed so much in the church (most have worldly wisdom)?

Why is Judas bad mouthed so much in the church? Was not he one of the chosen? Did he not perform the job he was chosen for, just as Pharaoh, also Esau and Jacob as well as us today; we being used also by God to do HIS WORKS.

Romans 9

You would not have a saviour if you didn't have a Judas. Do you not think Our LORD is not doing these same kind of WORKS today? In all of history God uses man to do HIS WORKS, just and unjust.

Isaiah 10

But God has already provided for their return to the kingdom.

Romans 8:19-21 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the CREATURE WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD.

(vs 20) For the creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

(vs 21) BECAUSE THE CREATURE ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) UNTO THE LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon Mt. Zion to judge the Mt. of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the Lords.

MOST WILL NOT BELIEVE THIS.

Esau's Folly and Cains curse

Genesis 27:41

And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said IN HIS HEART, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

Romans 9:13

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:3

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Obadiah 1:18

And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

On OBADIAH 3

The Word of God is God ( John 1:1) and not for any private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20). If it records in Rev. 12:9 that this whole world has been deceived, it did not speak of a particular country, group of people, person or religion, it meant the whole world.

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15) this whole world has been deceived and what mankind must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( Matthew 7:7; John 14:17).

The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting), is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and there seems to be a great misconception what the true 'spiritual' meaning of the word is. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider.

Only through Repentance will God be able to reveal Himself, and adopt you as His sons and daughters ( Rom. 8:15,23; 2 Cor.6:18; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5; Hebr. 12:5; 1 John 3:1) and reveal to you how this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and overcome this world ( 1 John 5:4).

The word 'Repent' means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It should also be remembered that it is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

Jim, if Jesus died for ALL then why did he speak in parables to hide the gospel from some?

Matthew Chapter 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is NOT GIVEN not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

God hated Esau (Yes I know they want to CONvince us this means love less)

Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

Malachi 1:4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever. indignation is extreme hatred.

...The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.... how long is for ever?

The Lord does not love Esau / Edom and King Herod was of this lineage per Jewish historian Josephus.

If you do not know the sin of Esau I suggest you look into his marriage into the Hittite canaanite lineage.

Thanks for the explanation, Arissa. I think I understand your meaning now, as you said that it is a "twisted version of the idea". Maybe like a 'fall guy'. Anyway, no matter, I see what you're saying, and thanks for your explanation.

To Chris:Thanks for reading and for feedback. I don't think you quite get what I meant.

I did not mean that Jacob was a scapegoat, but rather in the twisted version of the idea, he had to leave his home to go find his uncle so he would be "safe" from Esau.

It's part of freemason corruption to twist things, to twist the Word of God.



So, as you explained so nicely the meaning of Scapegoat, you see in the story that it is a bit twisted. It's a bit too complicated for me to put into easy words for someone to understand. It's how the occult works- so it becomes distorted, and unclear, but only in Christ can the wisdom,understanding, knowledge, & discernment be given so one can see things as they are, and not how they appear to be.

The scapegoat idea in our day is when the "sins"/filth/persona of one person is dumped onto someone else who is being exploited for their "anointing",talents, ideas, energy etc. such that the person being used as the scapegoat is the recipient of the negative energy that comes from the person who is being masked behind the persona of the "scapegoat". The person who has been exploited is falsely accused, and cast away- sent away, kicked out, given the boot, excommunicated, locked up/incarcerated as white supremacists have done to people of color for years. So, the idea of the scapegoat is not the same as in the Old Testament context, but a twisted version of it.

I know I'm still not being clear.

It's too early to be thinking this and trying to explain it.

God is closer then ever to His Children. In these dsys He will be walking close to whatever happens. You have chosen Him. He will take care of all our sorrows. He will make you Strong to walk boldly against this evil world. Walk in His Grace. Walk toward the Heavenly Light to your new Home in the Heavens is where you will be. Always remember you are Special to Him. In the end He will fight all the Evils that has hurt His Children. He always wins. For great Love can move mountains!!!

Arissa, I didn't realize that your comments came in three parts. Just a further comment on 'Scapegoat' in reference to Jesus. Again, with the meaning of Scapegoat, I can understand your application to our Lord, for indeed our Sins were placed upon Him at the Cross, but the whole idea of scapegoat (in particular reference to sin bearing, in the OT), was that one goat was the sacrifice for the sins of the people & the second goat had their sins transferred onto its head & then that goat was set free to run into the field or forest, never to return or to be retrieved back into the flock ( Lev 16:5-22).

In the case of Jesus' Sacrifice, the Lamb of the OT is a foreshadow of what Jesus was appointed by His Father to accomplish. That is, instead of the priests sacrificing a spotless lamb from the flock to give temporal covering for sin, God provided His Lamb, pure & sinless, from (within) Himself (His Word) to fully pay for & redeem sinners forever: and this Sacrifice was the only One acceptable for full payment. So again, I wouldn't see Jesus' Sacrifice as Him being our Scapegoat in its full & logical sense, rather our Sacrifice.