Discuss Philippians 1 Page 4

Dear

Rebecca,

The fact that you want to accept Jesus and are desiring salvation is proof that the Holy Spirit is working in You to create faith that will enable you to believe. So, rejoice Rebecca, God is calling and He is the author and finisher of our faith ( Hebrews 12:2) and having begun this good work within you, God is also faithful to complete it unto salvation for your whole being. ( Philippians 1:6)

Rebecca, I do not know how you are struggling, since you said you are in a spiritual battle. But I do not that Jesus has won victory for all of us ( 1John 5:4). All that you really need to do is just tell Jesus that you need His help in having faith to believe in Him. He will answer this request. You can begin walking as a believer even if your faith is small right now.

Keep on asking Jesus to increase Your faith and help You know Him more and more each day.

You can meet with a pastor and ask to be baptized. (Matthew28:19-20) which normally follows one's believing and confession to acknowledge that you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.

Reading the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are a very good way to get to know Jesus. I encourage you to read ALL about Him in these Bible books and then move on to Acts.

Rebecca,

I will pray for you today. Dear Lord Jesus, here is Rebecca desiring You and the salvation You won for her. Fill her with Your Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, cause Rebecca to be born again and create in her true faith to believe the Gospel of Jesus. Heavenly Father, Shed Your love and mercy upon Rebecca and draw her near to You. May today begin her new life with You as Your daughter. Dear God, You are amazing and will never turn away anyone who comes to You humbly seeking forgiveness for their sins and to turn away from sinful tendencies in repentance. Thank you that we cannot do anything to earn our salvation nor can we do anything to acquire it. It is already done for us by Your work of grace. Help Rebecca to really know this.

1 Peter 2:20

"For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God."

2 Timothy 3:12

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Romans 8:17

"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Philippians 1:29

"For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

King James Version (KJV)

Here is the verse, 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. It is talking about being tempted not being able to stand suffering, but I hope this verse explains it and Let me say this, God's word is where we find shelter you have to read read read it. Philippians 1:29

"For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

Romans 8:17

"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

1 Peter 2:20

"For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God."

I pray this helps and if you use the search box and use suffer, suffering you can read more verses and remember Jesus sent the Comforter to us, the Holy ghost to comfort us. I'll being praying for you.

Hi Louis.

For anyone to come in the presence of God he has to be perfect, Perhaps this is why no one has come in the presence of God and lived. That is what Christ came to through the work on the cross. Hebrews 10:12-17.

It is the spirit that work in you after conversion. Philippians 2:13. Philippians 1:6.

We are to be in agreement with the spirit and bare the fruit produced by the vine. John 15:1-8.

Anything that is done in the flesh and not through the influence of the spirit is not accepted, Your works will be tried by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-17.

That which is done in your own strength lacks the ability and authenticity to please God, but the spirit gives life to this fleshly nature captured in these sinful bodies. Romans 8:5-14.

It is important for a Christian to not attempt to ad to the finish work on the cross. ( We should acknowledge the works we do adds nothing to your salvation, that's been taken care of you can't loose it.)

In our walk we will stumble: 1 John 2:1. 1 John 1:7-10. Let's not loose sight of Philippians 1:6.

God bless.

The parable of the 10 virgins is a good view of the Rapture. Be ready with lamps filled with oil (which represents the Holy Spirit).

Everyone receives an invitation to the Marriage Supper, but not everyone will accept.

We became the Generation that will not pass without seeing the Return of Christ; when Israel became a State in 1948. Experts agree that a generation is somewhere between 70-80 years.

The Fig Tree is Israel; and it's blooming. We are grafted into Israel.

They are returning. They are working the Land. The land blooms & produces when Jews are there.

They are defending their land. It DOES NOT belong to Ishmael's Ancestors. Not one square inch.

Their hearts are turning to love The God of Israel.

Rather than mourn the running down of the clock, we need to think evangelistically. Jews and Gentiles must be saved and sealed. God does NOT separate, by names or denominations of Churches.

I pray we are reproducing Christ in people who visit this website. Philippians 1:21

Oh let us keep in mind why we are still here.

Don't be distracted.

Mishael

[ Heb 7:26 KJV] 26 For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

[1Jo 3:3 KJV] 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

[ 2Co 5:21 KJV] 21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

[ 1Pe 2:22 KJV] 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

There is many one could quote these are but a few.

Matthew 5:3-15, Matthew 18:3-5, Matthew 22:37-40, Philippians 2:2-10, Galatians 5:16-26

What are some bible verses that I can share to my friends about the perfection of Christ?

Part II Asleep Awaiting resurrection

God's 'Prophetic' Program For ISRAEL (see Part I)

Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM

God's "Revelation Of The MYSTERY (Secret)," for The Body Of CHRIST

3)...Which Has The Following "Specific" 'resurrection/rapture' of ONLY (the just) 'GRACE believers' "who 'SLEEP In Jesus'" AND, at the same time, "we who ARE ALIVE and remain" 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 And 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

Thus, 'these ASLEEP' are NOT 'risen and in heaven,' (Rick, I apologize IF I 'implied' this somewhere), but, are Only the "Conscious Departed souls/spirits" RESTING In Jesus, in Heaven WITH Him, awaiting resurrection (to "Be Brought" and Be Reunited 'with their BODIES' from the graves, and "Changed Into Incorruptible"), According to Plain and Clear Scripture:

"...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (Rightly Divided, NOT 'Confused' with Revelation to John, For ISRAEL)

Thus, the answer to the question "the deceased are already with Jesus"? Still stands, According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!'

Perchance there is a 'Different' interpretation that I Cannot see, for "...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 ???



Precious Rick, and all Precious friends, Please Be Encouraged In CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

More "study" of 'Distinctions' between Prophecy and MYSTERY: Link

Precious Lystra, 1) "the deceased are already with Jesus"? According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!' Else Then this verse is 'false', Correct?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in JESUS Will God Bring With Him."

IF "dying is not gain," and to "to depart 'to Be With CHRIST' is not Far Better," then, of course, the Above verse would NOT be true, Correct?

2) "'theory' of God's rapture, According to His 'Secret'"?:

Praying Hopefully that this 4-Part Bible study will help Encourage you with your Very Important Question about God's 'Sound' Doctrine, Great GRACE Departure: Link

Precious Lystra, Please Be Very 'Richly' Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified! 2 Timothy 2:15 Romans 16:25 Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Cowboy:

God says, You don't CHOSE me, I CHOSE YOU.

You don't contribute one single thing to your salvation.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom we also obtain an inheritance, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE of him who WORKETH ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS WILL.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you IT IS GIVEN on the behalf of Christ, to BELIEVE ON HIM .....

1 Peter 1:21 Who BY HIM do BELIEVE in God .....

Salvation is a GIFT of GOD, through GRACE and MERCY.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my spirit within you, and (I WILL) CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my commandments and DO THEM.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

You do nothing, it's all the WORK OF GOD.

And they will say unto me in that day, LORD DID WE NOT DO, and he will say depart you workers of iniquity.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh and keeps MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give POWER OVER the nations.

God Bless YOU.

Brother Dan:

Do you believe God will send sinners to hell:

Is GRACE not what abounds to all men, man says you have to believe, Grace says at each man's appointed time; GRACE will CAUSE you to believe. You don't Chose me, I CHOSE YOU.

Philippians 1:29 For it is GIVEN TO YOU on the behalf of Christ, TO BELIEVE ON HIM....

Brother Dan, you were GRACED, being able to BELIEVE, you are chosen to be a vessel of honour, but God chooses to make some men to be vessels of dishonour.

Does GRACE not also apply to them, and when God GRACES them with BELIEF they will RESPOND.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTION OF GRACE.

Romans 11:6 An if by grace, then it is no more of works, otherwise it is no more grace.....

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also NOT NOW BELIEVED, that through YOUR MERCY they may obtain MERCY.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Ephesians 2:7 That in THE AGES TO COME he might show the exceeding riches OF HIS GRACE in his kindness toward us through Jesus Christ.

God Bless You.

NO ONE CAN BELIEVE OF THEMSELVES

Philippians 1:29 For unto to you IT IS GIVEN on the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Peter 1:21 WHO BY HIM DO BELIEVE in GOD, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

When we look at the world, we see, most don't believe in God; there is a reason, CHRIST hasn't YET CAUSED THEM TO BELIEVE.

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now NOT BELIEVED, that through YOUR MERCY they also shall OBTAIN MERCY.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them ALL IN UNBELIEF, that he might have mercy ON ALL.

Christ is ONLY at present calling out a FEW to be PRIEST in his kingdom, on earth and TO JUDGE and PREACH his gospel to all nations, when they are resurrected back to their bodies of flesh.

The called out will have glorified bodies.

Those resurrected back will have flesh and blood bodies, this is there punishment, they will be in torment seeing their GOVERNORS, glorified, and they, flesh and blood, and under SUBJECTION.

Jeremiah 51:19-23

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Part III God's Great GRACE Departure

B) Distinctions Between GREAT GRACE Departure and Second Coming continued

The Second 'prophesied' Coming

Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 From Things That DIFFER

God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly 'Mystery!'

1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!

CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! Ephesians 1:19-23 Colossians 1:18 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With The Trump of God! 1 Thessalonians 4:16

3) JESUS CHRIST, Who Is God, Will Bring With Him, those "asleep In JESUS," who Were With Him In Heaven! 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14

4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those asleep (in 3) First, and Then, we "which are alive and remain (which Is A Mystery)," will be changed/all "incorruptible, And Caught Up together (rapture) to meet The LORD in the air (Not all the way to the earth), in the twinkling of an eye!" 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 1 Corinthians 15:52-53

5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body To HIMSELF, to Take them To Heaven" (Opposite of earth)... 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 1 Corinthians 15:49 2 Corinthians 12:2 2 Corinthians 5:1,2 Ephesians 1:3,20 Ephesians 2:6 Philippians 3:20 2 Timothy 4:18

6) ...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By The Head Himself!... Romans 2:6,16 Romans 14:10-12 1 Corinthians 3:6-11 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 6:20 2 Corinthians 5:10 Ephesians 6:8 Colossians 3:24-25

to be continued in:

Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!

Dear Earl,

I didn't understand your response to the topic at hand. It seemed to avoid the main question about what we're saved from, but that's ok. I hope what I wrote was at least considered. I did see your repeating of your belief that the KJV is a 'Catholic' Bible and that's untrue. And your idea that hell doesn't actually mean hell, but something nicer like a cellar or grave isn't true either. The Bible is already translated accurately by a team of experts who spent years methodically and prayerfully doing it word for word. You're one person claiming the opposite with no evidence for it, so I don't find the attacks on God's word as credible. Not sure what your goals are in attacking God's word publicly on a Bible site, but nonetheless, I'm glad you're here.

You asked: "For what purpose did GOD SAVE YOU."

I don't agree with the terminology "saved" past tense, because we haven't been judged yet. The Bible mostly uses the terminology shall or will be saved. Future tense, not past tense, because we are still living and have freewill to follow Jesus or not follow Him. The choice is ours.

Paul in the Bible said to run the race to the end to receive the prize, not the race was already over. 1 Cor 9:24-27

So I don't believe I have been "saved" from anything yet, nor has anyone else on earth, because we haven't been judged as it says we will be in 2 Corinthians 5:10. It says we "all" must appear to be judged. All means all. I understand some think they can skip judgment based on good behavior, but that's not Biblical. All means everyone. Here's another: Romans 14:12 "Every one of us..." 1 Corinthians 4:5. "Every one" means everyone, including Christians and non-Christians. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

But by following Jesus, can we have assurance and confidence in salvation? Yes. Philippians 1:6

If we don't follow Jesus, can we have assurance and confidence in salvation? No. Luke 12:5. Hebrews 10:26

God bless...

Sister GiGi, I have nothing against brick and mortar churches, God has them there to preach His Word. I am not saying that they don't preach the gospel of salvation, they do, what they don't do is bring the saved to the maturity of the Word. I have family members and friends that have gone to church 50 years and are no more mature in the word than when they first believed. I have numerous close relatives and friends that are pastors, but have no knowledge of God's word other than I'm saved and going to heaven. The gospel is, there is going to be a kingdom on earth. God is calling and choosing those that will rule and reign with them. How many churches teach this. There is going to be billions of people raise from the dead that have never heard one word about Christ. God is preparing a priesthood to bring the gospel to those billions, to judge and govern those people, God's kingdom. The only time you reside in heaven is the period of time God is gathering his elect (thousand years, not literally one thousand), when the elect have been gathered everything else will happen on earth. How can one be a priest in God's kingdom if you don't believe what he says. ( Philippians 1:29)( 1 Peter 1:21)

Brother Dam:

It's all about being in agreement with the scriptures.

There is plenty of the scriptures you agree with now, when you find those that you don't seem to be in full agreement with, ask Christ to cause you to believe.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only to BELIEVE IN HIM (Christ is all the words in our bible), but to also suffer (through suffering Christ LEARNED OBEDIENCE) for his sake.

Psalms 22:27 And all the ends of the earth shall REMEMBER (they can't remember in the grave, they remember when they are resurrected back to their bodies of flesh) and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man was in torment in the FLAME.

Psalms says Christ ministers are FLAMES of FIRE.

Obadiah says the house of Joseph is a FLAME.

The torment those in the resurrection suffer, is mental torment, not physical torment.

Put yourself in their place, you (rich man) have just been resurrected back to earthly flesh, and standing before you all the ELECT (Lazarus) and CHRIST in glorified bodies and you (rich man) in a body of flesh. It will be utter TORMENT (in that flame) because you will REMEMBER.

Bro Dan Galatians 1:2 To the brethren in churches of Galatia, Philippians 1:1 To the saints in christ jesus, James To the twelve tribes scattered abroad My Brethren. That's what I read.

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Brother Kevin, Christ is reigning NOW, the kingdom of God came when Christ was RESURRECTED, so, YES, the earth is being populated during his REIGN. His reign want end until he has SUBDUED all things to himself ( 1 Corinthians 15:25-28). In this AGE he is only CHOOSING and CAUSING the ones to be priest ( Revelation 5:10) in his kingdom to BELIEVE ( Philippians 1:29). The feast of the weeks is the shadow in the Old Testament, the wheat and rye were harvested first (it was only a small portion of the crop that would be harvested that year). You see references to wheat in Christ parables (we are the WHEAT).

When the second resurrection has happened, all the inhabitants of the world from Adam to the resurrection of the dead, will be raised back into their terrestrial flesh. They are going to be judged and brought to truth. It appears from some of the prophets words that this judgement could last a long time. Man may once again live in terrestrial flesh to be hundreds of years old, So, yes, the earth could be repopulating during this AGE. In the Old testament the feast of the tabernacles was when the remainder of the harvest was brought IN (after the WHEAT was harvested). We are the WHEAT (first resurrection) those in the second resurrection are the remaining harvest, to be harvested in the feast of the in gathering or feast of the tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:4 And his (Christ) feet shall stand in that day (Day of the Lord) on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half the mountain shall move toward the north, and half the mountain toward the south.

This prophecy ALSO must be spiritually discerned.

When Christ in his ministry stood on the mount of Olives, this became reality, but the mountain and valley are, SIGNIFIED, and not not literal. Mountains and valleys and hills are often SIGNIFIED as PEOPLE

James 1:5-6, 1 John 2:27,

Sometimes I feel we're on a 'need to know' basis: GOD reveals many things as we need to know. Sometimes I've wondered about something & right away GOD's given me the answers. Other times it was years. Sometimes I've read scripture then another time reading, something powerful is revealed that I hadn't noticed beforehand or the fact my circumstances have changed giving me deeper understanding. I will also pray you have deeper understanding. Philippians 1:6,

I would like to point out however the correlation between Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, & the Gospels Matthew Mark Luke & John are insightful to me understanding it to be prophetic. Isaiah 52:7-14,

Hopefully this is helpful & encouraging.

Sister Sacha, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

God CHOOSE you before the foundations of the world: You CANNOT lose your salvation since you were CHOSEN, because you salvation is not up to you; but GOD.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath CHOSEN US in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom (in Christ) we have obtained an INHERITANCE (to become a Son of God), being predestinated according to the purpose of him who woreketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS WILL.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he that began a good work in you WILL PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ.

John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you (to be priest) ........

1 Peter 2:9 For you are a CHOSEN generation, a royal PRIESTHOOD .....

Exodus 40:15 ....for their ANOINTING shall surely be an everlasting PRIESTHOOD, throughout their generation.

May the SPIRIT reveal his TRUTHS to us, God bless you.

Brother Dale, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Is not the last day, the day the body of flesh ceases to exist.

Everyone in FLESH has a last day and a last trumpet (the voice of God saying come up here), death is swallowed up in life, this is the first death and first resurrection.

Those that haven't been chosen to believe in this age will die and lay in the grave until the second resurrection back to flesh and then will die the second death (judged in CHRIST and CAUSED to believe and confess Christ as Lord).

Philippians 1:29 For it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ....

Christ gives this to ALL MEN at his (Christ appointed time): a FEW in this AGE and to the rest after this age and the age to come.

Brother Nic, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The Holy Spirit, through men, wrote the WORD(S) of God ( 2 Peter 1:21).

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to NOT BELIEVE the Words of God.

Everyone blasphemes the Holy Spirit; until the Holy Spirit intervenes an CAUSES that person to BELIEVE ( Philippians 1:29).

The word you have to believe are not just a few scriptures (words) but ALL the scriptures (words).

Matthew 12:31-32 says they wont be forgiven in this AGE or in the AGE to follow.

Do you know how many AGES God has ordain in the AGE that has no beginning and no end. No we don't know.

God's word says that after this AGE and the AGE to follow, that they will be saved.

Isaiah 26:9 ...When thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants of the earth will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Isaiah 45:23 ...That unto me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess ....

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow ......

Philippians 2:11 And every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Timothy 4:10 ...Who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially those that BELIEVE.

This is going to be fulfilled some time after this AGE and the AGE to follow.

Sadly most don't believe these words of God.

Precious friend Ed, Great Question!

First, believe God's Gospel Of Pure GRACE, and receive HIS ETERNAL Life! God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Next, at expiration {death} your "spirit/soul Depart To Be In The Presence Of The LORD" {In Heaven!} 1 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23

OR:

IF The LORD "Does Not Tarry" in your lifetime, Then you Will Be "Changed Into Immortality/Incorruption To Meet HIM In the air!" 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

To go to Judgment, IN HEAVEN! 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 1 Corinthians 3:6-15

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,? )

I hope these are helpful Philippians 1:6, 2 Corinthians 5:17-18, Romans 10:17, 1 John 1:9,

Hello again brother Chris. As always, your thoughts give me the inspiration to explore the verses we are discussing. Thank you for stimulating my mind.

2 Corinthians 5:1-8, to me, is not reflecting the actual Rapture in and of itself, but more of Paul's expectations of his pre-Rapture and post-Rapture existence. Verse 6 - " Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:". While in this earthly body, our spirit is not in the presence of the Lord as He resides in heaven while we reside on earth. No question as to the truth of this concept. Verse 8 - " We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord". I see this as an expression of longing to exit the trials of this life and enter the rest preceding the actual spiritual entry into heaven.

Philippians 1:21-24 expresses the same as the verses above.

In both sets of verses, I do not see Paul expressing an immediate spirit in heaven event. To me, they do not say this. It is a happening that will occur with no timetable.

Your points for 2 Timothy 2:10-13 are well taken and understood. My purpose in using this scripture selection is verse 11. "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:". To me, this verse reflects a new recognition of the timetable for the return of Christ. We will live with Him without a sense of it being immediate.

Your comment was, which is a very good observation, "an allusion to the resurrection of the body, I see it as specifically to the Promise made to those who have died to sin & self". I agree with the allusion of a resurrection, but not of the body at the rapture. First Corinthians 15:40 - "There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies". This is reflected in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

Until our next chat, brother in Chr

Thank you again brother Bill & for the clarification of that Scripture. I too have to exercise care.

I gather from your comments on 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, you apply that Scripture to the Rapture. Whereas, I see it as the physical death of a believer & the immediate transition of his spirit into the Lord's Presence (i.e. while we're alive we're not in the Lord's Presence (Heaven) - then death ought to be welcomed because it means that we no longer have to 'groan' in our burdens of mortal life). I see that the apostle longed to be taken from this Earth, yet his earthly work must go on until the Call to come Home. Also Philippians 1:21-24: Paul expressing the same.

I'm unsure whether Paul began to doubt the 'timing' of the Lord's Coming; I think he lived in expectation of it given that the last days were always in view post-Crucifixion. I do recall Peter, in 2 Peter 3:3 ff, describe the condition of those 'scoffers' who will try to nullify the Lord's Promises, by saying, "Where is the promise of his coming?" And of course, Peter proceeded to show that the Lord's Promises are certain, as they were in Noah's day, & the utter destruction of the Earth by fire in latter days. That we cannot discern the times that God alone sets. If the Lord's Coming hasn't occurred as yet, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" then that has to be the Lord's Determination.

2 Timothy 2:10-13. I take in your thoughts on this, though again, I see it differently. Paul shares 4 contrasts (from the last one): if we are faithless (faith deficient), He remains faithful; if we deny Him, He will deny us; if we suffer for Him, we will reign (in triumph) with Him; if we have identified with Him (in dying to sin & the old life, even as He died for us to give us salvation), we will enjoy eternity with Him. Excuse my thoughts added here, but as much as I agree that there's allusion to the resurrection of the body, I see it as specifically to the Promise made to those who have died to sin & self.

Brother Adam, maybe our definition of FREE WILL differ. FREE would dictate that; that WILL, would have no CAUSE making it occur other than yourself.

Man makes CHOICES thousands or time a day; but those CHOICES have a CAUSE:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you TO WILL and TO DO ....

They is never an effect without there first being a CAUSE.

God is sovereign and the CAUSE of everything.

Romans 2:4 Man repents be CAUSE of the goodness of God

Philippians 1:29 You BELIEVE be CAUSE Christ CAUSES you to believe.

Galatians 1:20 You have faith be CAUSE Christ GIVES you HIS faith.

John 6:44 No one comes to Christ with a CAUSE, the Father draws that person to Christ.

God CAUSES and DOES everything, man is the benefactor of CAUSES of GOD.

Colossians 1:17 ...and by him all thing consist.... even you CHOICES.

John 15:5 ...you can of yourself DO NOTHING...

Philippians 2:12 please notice the similarity in these verses in context Philippians 2:3-4, read Philippians 2:1-15,

Matthew 25:31-46

Proverbs 3:1-35

Isaiah 58:1-14

Jude 1:1-25

I have drawn comfort from these scriptures. Jude 1:24-25, 1 Jude 1:21,

Nahum 1:7 also in context is the bigger picture

Luke 12:32 Luke 12:1-59

1 Colossians 1:10-23

Philippians 1:6

I hope these scriptures give you a bigger picture that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is showing us & are encouraging to you. Many more I wanted to share but deleted & held back to not overwhelm with too much reading all at once.

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Precious brother Chris says: "I cannot find a suitable answer for," and asks Great Questions:

Where does the spirit of man go? Ecclesiastes 12:7 cp James 2:26

me: Does the soul also depart? Genesis 35:18

Is there a holding place for such? And where could this place be?

1) Before The Resurrection Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, the paradise 'hold' was in "the heart {lower parts} of the earth" Matthew 12:40 Ephesians 4:9, Abraham's bosom, across a chasm from the 'torment' hold Luke 16:19-31 cp Luke 23:43

2) After The Resurrection Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, paradise is now with The Throne Of God {Third Heaven?}, and Body Of CHRIST 'members' Immediately, upon physical death {'sleep' is the metaphor for the 'dead body'} "Depart to be WITH our Blessed God And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!" 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23 'Confirmed' By:

3) ...Those 'asleep In JESUS'..." {metaphor for 'resting' in JESUS}, "...Will God {JESUS} Bring With HIM!" 1 Thessalonians 4:14 At our Great GRACE Departure! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Amen?

4) Is the "sleep/rest" UNconscious? Scripture?: Luke 16:19-31 cp Revelation 6:9-11

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Ed Bedore says: "A proper understanding of what the Bible teaches about Hell, Sheol, Hades, and the Grave dispels confusion over what happens to the soul at the time of physical death and guards against being led astray by those teaching the false doctrines of soul-sleep, eradication of the soul, the universal reconciliation of mankind, and the annihilation of the lost.":

More can be learned from his Excellent Article about this Bible Doctrine:

Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave by W. Edward Bedore

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Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?): Link