Discuss Philippians 2 Page 11

Part 2:

Here's my understanding of Philippians 2:12. Paul says "Wherefore, my beloved, as you always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but also in my absence,"

So he praises them. He says you don't obey just when I'm there, but when I'm not there you obey. Here's what I want you to do. Here's the command, the salvation process.

And here's the literal translation from the Greek text: Be continually working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

You see, it's a process. But wait a minute now. I thought that we didn't have to work for our salvation? Well, to put it in perspective, I have to take the very next verse. I can't just isolate verse 12 and put meaning to it without taking verse 13.

Paul says in Philippians 2:13, "For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." The word "works in you" is the word energizing. For it is God who is continually energizing in you both to will, and to energize of His good pleasure whatever He thinks best!

It's His energy. Whenever He wants to energize my spirit for His Spirit to work in me, it's all according to His good pleasure. It doesn't have anything to do with my good pleasure. I'm just a vessel. So I'm to be continually involved in having my salvation worked out because it's God who is working it out.

As for your other question, being confident in salvation does not mean that I should disregard any part of scripture. I remain confident in my salvation because I am trusting in the one who has saved me, the one who has promised to never leave me, and the one who is keeping me saved by His power alone. I can't keep myself saved. And no, I do not believe I can go out and sin all I want to because my salvation is permanent. My role is to submit and surrender to Christ. The only thing I had to contribute to my salvation was the sin to which I needed to be saved from. Jesus Christ has saved me. He has given me eternal life. If that can be lost, then it is not eternal!

Bro Dan,

Sorry for the late reply. I was away and just saw the questions you sent. I'll respond to the 2 verses you sent. First of all, Hebrews 10:26. This is one of the verses that is used by those who believe salvation can be lost. But I do not see anything there that tells me salvation can be lost. In all the verses in Hebrews chapter 10, beginning from verse 1, the writer, whoever that might be, is speaking to Hebrew people. He is showing them the superiority of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ over the sacrificial system of Judaism.

After the writer has presented his case that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is far superior than their Jewish way of sacrificing, In Hebrews 10:26, the writer is telling these Hebrew people that if they turn away and go back to into Judaism, they are not going to find any sacrifice there that is going to take care of their sin problem if they reject Christ and His sacrifice. (There is no other sacrifice for sin).

A person who has "received the knowledge of the truth" does not mean that person is saved. Hebrews 6:4 also speaks about an "enlightened" person. People also use this verse to prove you can lose your salvation. But again, an enlightened person does not mean a saved person. A person can be enlightened to the truth, they can receive the knowledge of the truth, but if that person does not surrender their life to Jesus Christ, that knowledge and enlightenment means nothing.

These people were being enlightened to the truth about Christ. They received the knowledge. But instead of surrendering to Christ, they were turning away and going back into Judaism. It was much easier for them to do that than to surrender their life to Christ. Surrendering to Christ meant severe persecution, so they were turning away. No salvation there to be lost because they turned away without surrendering to Christ.

I'm running out of space. I'll respond to the other verse you mention ( Philippians 2:12) and your other questions in a second post.

I explained it clumsy. See if this is clearer.

Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. ( Philippians 2:6-7)

So in verse six, you have the preexistent Christ before incarnation in the form of God, which the next phrase defines as equality with God. Then in verse seven, you have him taking the form of a servant in the likeness of men. I think just as the term "form of God" in verse 6 does not mean "less than God" - because of the phrase "equality with God" - in the same way, the phrases "form of a servant" and "likeness of man" in verse 7 does not mean "less than human," but rather "equal with all humans." That is a real human nature.

One of the reasons I don't believe that is what Paul meant is because he says the very opposite in Colossians 2:9. He said, "For in him", in Christ - the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." You even wonder whether he used the word fullness there partially to say, "He didn't empty himself of that. He's not empty. He's not only not empty - he's full. He's full of deity." The whole fullness of deity dwells bodily in Jesus. So I don't think he emptied himself of anything that constitutes the essence of deity.

[Another thing, Jesus did no miracles until after He was anointed in Luke 4:18, Isaiah 61:1]

Brother Jesse,

If you believe that you can't lose your salvation - what is Apostle Paul saying here:

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

I reads to me, that if we willfully continue to sin there is "no more sacrifice for sins" and we could lose our salvation!

Paul is telling us that we need to work out our own salvation "with fear and trembling". He is asking us to take action! Do we just disregard this scripture?

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Jesus tells us throughout the NT that we need to refrain from sin. Why would Jesus tell us to stop sinning if we can continue to sin and still receive salvation? Jesus and Apostle Paul agree that we must become obedient, and stop sinning, if we want to receive salvation. Tons of scripture stating this..

Should we be so confident in our salvation - that we disregard much of the scripture stating what "we need to be a part" of our own salvation. I will agree with Paul, and approach my salvation with fear and trembling, and trust him and Jesus, when they say we must repent from sin!

God Bless.

Hi Timothy. Here are some Scriptures for you to consider:

1 Corinthians 6:12; Titus 2:11,12; 1 Peter 5:8,9; James 1:12-15; James 4:7,8; 1 Peter 2:11; Romans 13:12-14; Romans 12:1,2.

All these Scriptures show how a Christian can live above the sinful cravings of the heart & mind - when we know that we need help & that help is beyond any power we can muster up, then we must cry to the Lord our God, submit fully to Him & daily trust Him to deliver us of anything that opposes godliness.

I had a few addictions to surrender to the Lord when I was saved by His Spirit; some things left off immediately, others took a little longer. But remember "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Philippians 2:13. God will by His Spirit help an earnest repentant soul. If He is in the business of pulling out wayward souls from the coming fires of Hell through His Son's Sacrifice, He will certainly not forget a struggling child who is still ensnared by the wicked one.

Our strength to resolve our issues very quickly diminishes - God's great Power to deliver & heal awaits all who look only to Him & submit to His Will. And when temptation knocks at our door, we are reminded in 1 Corinthians 10:13, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." But the part of that verse that tests our genuineness, is whether we see, acknowledge & use the door of escape that God provides for us. When that sin or addiction becomes something most hateful in us, we're on the road to physical, mental & spiritual recovery.

Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you..."equal" with God." There's only one form of eternal life, that is the life of God.

Brother David, you made a profound statement in your last sentence.

I do believe God's will, will come to pass absolutely but on his terms.

Is not what you said, exactly what this scripture says:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure (or HIS WILL).

God grace us as we mature IN CHRIST, God bless you.

Brother Rick,

Regarding the word "Gift" verses "Favor" as mentioned in an earlier post, these terms have been interchanged and argued by the biblical scholars and are related to the various language translations. If it is as you say simply a gift, all that believe - will go to Heaven. Not wanting to beat a dead horse, but the devil and his demons believe - are they going to heaven? We both know the answer, so it requires more than just believing, and this is talked about by Jesus and his apostles throughout the NT.

I'm glad that we do agree that "just believing" is not "a free ticket to salvation". So then, it also takes obedience, so we can't just say "we believe" and continue to live our old lives (live in sin), we are Born Again - to live new lives, and we must struggle as Paul states in various scripture. Many do not believe Paul when he states the following scripture:

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

So if you believe Apostle Paul, we will need to participate in our own salvation! It is not just "a Gift" that we receive - no matter what we do. Many people today pick and choose some of Pauls scripture that will approve their current lifestyle, but they will ignore Pauls additional scripture - if it does not help to confirm their lifestyle. When they hear all of the "feel good preachers" telling them they can keep their current worldly lifestyle and still receive salvation - they jump right on board that train!!!!

All of the scripture tells us we "must believe" and "be obedient" to receive our salvation.

Happy Sabbath Day and God Bless.

Hi Brother Rick,

Over the years, various biblical scholars and language experts disagree on the interpretation as a gift or favor. (You can easily research this subject.)

I believe God's promise as "a favor" simply because we are instructed by Jesus and all of the apostles including Paul, throughout the scriptures to follow Christ, repent from sin, be baptized, and follow God's 10 commandments, to produce good fruit/works.

Brother Rick, you state you will stick with the scriptures, then you will agree we must take some action too - to receive our salvation!

Here again is apostle Paul "King of Faith" speaking that "we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling". This takes Action on our part! There are many more verses throughout the bible instructing us "to take action" if we wish to receive our salvation.

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

So, we must "work out our own salvation", there is no FREE TICKET!

If we are Born Again, we must experience a change! Our old selves should die, and we will live differently, by making a conscience effort to follow God's 10 Commandments and refrain from living sinful lives.

Based on the scriptures, the act of "just believing" does not accomplish salvation. The easiest way to fail, is to say "I can just believe" and continue to live my sinful life and I will receive my salvation. Many people believe this false doctrine and I would suggest they read this scripture below, and think about where their own salvation stands today!

Matthew 7:14

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Happy Sabbath Day, and God Bless.

Brother Adam,

I agree. The gift that is so freely talked about by those who want to "keep their lives" and still recieve salvation are plainly missguided. You simply can't keep your life, and recieve salvation. It is one or the other!

The gift is really a "favor from God" with the hope that the reciever will accept it - and walk with Christ. If the reciever does not walk with Christ - they do not recieve the gift of salvation.

If we are truly - Born Again - there will be a change in us, and we will want to try to live a Christ like life!

Paul states the following which is very clear:

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

A Christ like person will strive to be sin free, and will produce good fruit/works.

James 2:22

"Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

So many christians todaybelieve wrongly they are going to heaven no matter what. This is wrong! Here is Paul himself instructing us how to achieve our own salvation:

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Why would Paul instruct us in the above verse, if all believer's are going to heaven anyway?

There are "no free tickets". People need to read the bible and believe what it says.

God Bless

Brother David, in the fullness of times, GOD will be ALL IN ALL ( 1 Corinthians 15:28).

Jesus came to visibly show what it means for God to be ALL in ALL, Christ was the first.

Christ is the body ( Ephesians 4:4)(a vessel) that holds ALL GOD IS; therefore Christ did nothing of himself, because a BODY can DO NOTHING of itself, It's the LIFE in the BODY that does the work. ( John 5:19)( John 5:30)( John 8:28).

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (the LIFE) which worketh in you (in the body, the vessel, even in Christ) TO WILL and TO DO his (the Father's) good pleasure.

We are going to be CONFORMED to the likeness of Christ. We are the pot (the body, the vessel) he is the potter.

He is bring his BODY (you and I) to TRUTH. WE do NOTHING OURSELVES ( John 15:5).

When you are BORN of TRUTH, ALL that you are doing is not you THE BODY doing it, but God THE LIFE in you doing the work.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God (TRUTH) doth not COMMIT SIN: for his SEED (CHRIST IN YOU)( Colossians 1:27) remaineth in him (you ARE DEAD (in trespasses) he GAVE you HIS LIFE, you are now the body that HOLDS ALL GOD IS): and he (the one who died to TRUTH), cannot sin, because he is born of TRUTH.

And the TRUTH is:

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (THE LIFE) which worketh in you (HIS BODY) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

God grace us with eyes to see, God bless you.

Brother Dean, not only does he control the life of Christians, he controls the life of non Christians.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ephesians 1:11 ...according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS WILL.

Man hates these words because man refuses to give up control of his life. He see himself as god of his life.

Sister Sacha, man is materialistic because:

Ecclesiastes 3:11 ....also he (GOD) has set the world (materialism) in their heart ....

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who worketh in you (in man) both to will and to do his good pleasure.

Matthew 7:21-29, Matthew 25:31-46, Philippians 2:3-15

Sister Sacha; thank you, but I revealed nothing to you. The words I spoke are not my words but his words, He reveals, I do nothing.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Thank you and God bless you.

Sister Gigi, I responded because God Spirit, working in us TO WILL and TO DO ( Philippians 2:13), caused me to respond, so God's will must be for you to go deeper into his truths that hasn't been revealed to you yet. God never stops revealing truths (himself) to us.

Brother Nic, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The Holy Spirit, through men, wrote the WORD(S) of God ( 2 Peter 1:21).

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to NOT BELIEVE the Words of God.

Everyone blasphemes the Holy Spirit; until the Holy Spirit intervenes an CAUSES that person to BELIEVE ( Philippians 1:29).

The word you have to believe are not just a few scriptures (words) but ALL the scriptures (words).

Matthew 12:31-32 says they wont be forgiven in this AGE or in the AGE to follow.

Do you know how many AGES God has ordain in the AGE that has no beginning and no end. No we don't know.

God's word says that after this AGE and the AGE to follow, that they will be saved.

Isaiah 26:9 ...When thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants of the earth will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Isaiah 45:23 ...That unto me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess ....

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow ......

Philippians 2:11 And every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Timothy 4:10 ...Who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially those that BELIEVE.

This is going to be fulfilled some time after this AGE and the AGE to follow.

Sadly most don't believe these words of God.

Today, I'm meditating and praying that God's Holy Spirit will provide for understanding of this verse spoken by Paul:

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

So far, the way I read and understand it: Paul is asking us to "take action", and this seems to contradict the large and loud crowd that continues to loudly express: " Faith+Grace and nothing else."

God Bless.

Brother David, you said when we are born again, and I have no doubts you are born again, and we walk in the Spirit, we aren't breaking fellowship, but when we are not walking in the Spirit but in the flesh, we sin.

I believe the Truth in God's word explains what you describe.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (SPIRIT) that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

In Isaiah 10 God uses the King of Assyria to bring judgement upon Israel, therefore God's Spirit was in the king CAUSING him TO DO God's will.

God said when he was finished judging Israel by the hand of Assyria, he would punish the King, not because the King murdered and stole and raped, but he would be punished because he took credit HIMSELF, instead of understanding God DID IT, through him.

God CAUSES us, his creation, every second of the day TO DO his work (statues and judgements). We may think when God is causing us TO DO, that we are walking in the flesh, and we are, but it is not SIN. Unless you believe it is not God DOING IT, and then the SIN is UNBELIEF. The only sin that want be forgiven in THIS AGE or the AGE TO COME, after that (judgement) they will be forgiven.

May the Spirit CAUSE us to come to TRUTH.

ASK and you shall receive.

Hi Sacha, I couldn't agree with you more, this is what true repentance means, that we stop blaming others for our shortcomings (sin). and as you said Pride is one of our biggest stumbling blocks to true repentance, if I may add some scripture that I needed to read over a couple times to understand the full meaning of following Christ.

Philippians 2:5-11 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men, And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name, That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Thank You and God Bless

You didn't cite one Bible verse supporting your feelings, I wonder why.

Just 1 scripture shows whether what you said is true or false:

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"...WORD WAS GOD."

Is Jesus the Word? Yes, John 1:14.

This verse is like kryptonite to those who don't want to believe in Jesus's divinity, because it leaves no room for creative interpretation. Anti-Jesus folks hate this verse and will perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to make it mean something else, but it doesn't work. It already means exactly what it says.

But is that the only verse saying that Jesus is God? There's more...

1 John 5:7

Genesis 1:26

Genesis 11:6-7

John 10:30

John 8:19

John 1:1

Philippians 2:5 - 2:8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

1 John 5:7

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 5:8

1 John 2:22-24

Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"

Matthew 1:23-25

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

SATAN is used by God, for God's will.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And SATAN stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Samuel 23:1 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he (the LORD) MOVED (through Satan) David to number Israel.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you (in his creation, including Satan) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

God is SOVEREIGN, nothing happens without GOD CAUSING IT TO HAPPEN.

Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7:21-27, Matthew 7:1-21, Hebrews 10:22-31,35,36,37,38,39

Philippians 2:1-16,

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves.

2 Timothy 3:1-9

These verses give us three layers of truth: (1) There will be a period of history known as the "last days" of earth; (2) these days will be perilous, a word that means dangerous and savage; (3) the most dangerous thing about them will be a pandemic of self-love. When people love themselves, the driving forces for everything become ego, self-admiration, personal ambition, and a disregard for anyone else.

Without the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus, we are all selfish people, more concerned about ourselves than about anyone else. It's Jesus alone who teaches us to love others, to care for someone besides ourselves, and to humbly obey God's Word: "Don't be selfish; don't try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves. Don't look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too" ( Philippians 2:3-4, NLT).

Sin makes the times perilous. When there is a general corruption of manners, and of the tempers of men, this makes the times dangerous to live in [But] the coming of perilous times is an evidence of the truth of scripture predictions.

Matthew Henry

Brother Adam, maybe our definition of FREE WILL differ. FREE would dictate that; that WILL, would have no CAUSE making it occur other than yourself.

Man makes CHOICES thousands or time a day; but those CHOICES have a CAUSE:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you TO WILL and TO DO ....

They is never an effect without there first being a CAUSE.

God is sovereign and the CAUSE of everything.

Romans 2:4 Man repents be CAUSE of the goodness of God

Philippians 1:29 You BELIEVE be CAUSE Christ CAUSES you to believe.

Galatians 1:20 You have faith be CAUSE Christ GIVES you HIS faith.

John 6:44 No one comes to Christ with a CAUSE, the Father draws that person to Christ.

God CAUSES and DOES everything, man is the benefactor of CAUSES of GOD.

Colossians 1:17 ...and by him all thing consist.... even you CHOICES.

John 15:5 ...you can of yourself DO NOTHING...

Brother Adam, If man has FREEWILL, why does man ALWAYS chose EVIL, why wouldn't at least a FEW men choose to never sin. If they have FREEWILL.

But, that would make this scripture a LIE:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO ....

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin (No), can a leopard change his spots? (No) then may you also do good, (No) that are accustomed TO DO evil.

Romans 8:20 For the creature itself was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly ....

Sister Sacha:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (Spirit, truth, life) that WORKETH in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

He will make each of PERFECT in his appointed time.

Be still and behold the salvation of God.

There is never a reason to be ashamed, we are his creation and he knows how to make each of COMPLETE.

Any TRUE brother or sister understands this.

God uses you, but it's him not you.

God's grace covers ALL.

You have a gift let God express it through you.

Brother david, i fully agree.

philippians 2:13 for it is god that worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.

you (sinful flesh died, on the cross, you no longer exist. the life (i am the way, truth, life) now in you is christ.

no greater love has a man than to give his life for his brother. have you died to christ (the word of god, this is the first death) (first resurrection).

revelation 20:6

revelation 13:10

Philippians 2:12 please notice the similarity in these verses in context Philippians 2:3-4, read Philippians 2:1-15,

Matthew 25:31-46

Proverbs 3:1-35

Isaiah 58:1-14

Jude 1:1-25

I have drawn comfort from these scriptures. Jude 1:24-25, 1 Jude 1:21,

Nahum 1:7 also in context is the bigger picture

Luke 12:32 Luke 12:1-59

1 Colossians 1:10-23

Philippians 1:6

I hope these scriptures give you a bigger picture that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is showing us & are encouraging to you. Many more I wanted to share but deleted & held back to not overwhelm with too much reading all at once.

Dgjot, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Try to understand that you ARE NOT separate and apart from God, but ONE, you do not exist apart from God.

NOW:

Philippians 2: 13 For it is God (the spirit of LIFE and TRUTH IN YOU) that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL AND TO DO his good pleasure.

He is the ONLY LIFE and he is working to make you that LIFE ALSO. He want FAIL.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom we also have obtained an INHERITANCE, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE OF HIM who worketh all things after the council of HIS WILL.

Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknow, he also predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, so that he might be the first borne among many brethren.

Isaiah 14:24 ....Surely as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, an as I have purposed, so shall it stand.