Yes David0921, I agree with your Romans 3 and Ephesians 2 refs, that not one of us is righteous before God as we stand (spiritually) dead in our trespasses & sins, but the Psalms 58:3 reference, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies", requires a little more examination.
Here it seems that David is accusing the corrupt judges (vv 1,2) of gross wickedness. Such was their deplorable condition that they displayed their propensity towards evil soon after birth. He says, that "they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies"; I see that he is taking some license in using hyperbole, for how does a newborn babe speak lies?
These men were not wicked in the womb, even though David acknowledged that he himself "was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me" ( Psalm 51:5). Whether in Psalm 58 or 51, the indication is that the sin nature already exists in the embryo & of course that sin nature manifests not long after by the committing of sin. David saw that the wickedness of those men was so great that their propensity to sin was manifest soon (some time?) after birth - not in the womb. If you believe that a "newborn baby is subject to the wrath of God and eternal death..." (& by extension, it must also be subject to God's Wrath in the womb), when no sin has been committed, that would be an extreme position to hold to, which I believe is baseless. There is no Scripture at all to suggest what you state & of course all those babies that are stillborn, aborted, have their lives taken after birth or simply cannot have the Gospel preached to them for their response, are all subject to God's Wrath & eternal death (& as you understand it: separation from God into annihilation & oblivion).
The 'age of accountability' is simply an attempt to show that our sin nature is judged only when we sin outside of the womb - never inside. Sin is a deliberate act of offending God - it can't be done on the inside.
I understand why we might concoct a theory of an "age of accountability". But God puts that idea to rest in very clear and concise language.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are ESTRANGED from the WOMB: they go ASTRAY as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE : There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Because of Adam's sin, mankind is infected with SIN and is spiritually DEAD from the moment of conception. And it requires God's action to change that condition. The Bible declares that action as becoming BORN AGAIN. That is SALVATION.
There is no "age of accountability". No matter how much we may wish it to be so.
Apart from salvation, a new born baby is subject to the wrath of God and eternal death, whatever that may be.
I am unaware of any verse or passage in the Bible that speaks of an "age of accountability".
The Bible does say some very ugly things about our condition from the moment of conception apart from salvation. And that we are spiritually DEAD.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the WOMB: they go astray as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
I had done a commentary on this 7 months ago. In systematically studying the Psalms I am reflecting today on my own life. In assessing old habits; old hobbies and other things I realize that all things that I do now if they aren't motivated by Christ and the new life in me then they are still being desired by the old sin nature. As part of the "congregation" in verse 1 (the confessing church) I need to make sure that indeed I am working out of the possession of the Holy Spirit; as nothing can ever be improved in the old nature. Thus comes the warning about the demon leaving someone and coming back with 7 worse after there is a veneer of "cleaning house" as it were. ( Matthew 12:43-45).
Nothing is done well in isolation in our Christian walk. We need the balance of others in order to hold us accountable; exhort and encourage. Nonetheless; it is up to us to take time for personal devotionals and to heed to the voice of the Lord in regard to instruction. If we aren't listening to Him when alone then we are not likely to heed to the instruction and wisdom from above that He ministers to us through others.
There are references here to the wicked in regard to physical and spiritual (eternal) judgments (v. 6-9). Verses 10-11 show how the righteous will rejoice and "wash their feet in the blood" of the wicked (v. 10). (see also Malachi 4:3). This demonstrates that even now we should desire our own death; while still hoping for the soon Rapture/Resurrection of the saints. We need to heed the message in regard to Lot's wife and not have our hearts till turned to the world and away from the Lord. This takes daily discipline and is a struggle as long as we remain in this fleshly existence. This also demonstrates who is truly saved and who is not as there is no real love for Christ for those pretenders. May we examine our hearts today and daily. ( 2 Cor. 13:5).
THE CUSTOM OF FEET WASHING and JESUS - In Reply - 2 years ago
The Old Testament references ( Genesis 18:4; 19:2; 24:32; 43:24; Judges 19:21; 1 Samuel 25:41; 2 Samuel 11:8; Song of Solomon 5:3; Psalms 58:10) show that the washing of the feet was the first act on entering the tent or house after a journey. The Orientals wore only sandals, and this washing was refreshing as well as cleanly. In the case of ordinary people, the host furnished the water, and the guests washed their own feet, but in the richer houses, the washing was done by a slave. It was looked upon as the lowliest of all services ( 1 Samuel 25:41). Jesus pointedly contrasts Simon's neglect of even giving Him water for His feet with the woman's washing His feet with tears and wiping them with her hair ( Luke 7:44). On the last evening of His life, Jesus washed the disciples' feet ( John 13:1-16). Their pride, heightened by the anticipations of place in the Messianic kingdom whose crisis they immediately expected, prevented their doing this service for each other. Possibly the same pride had expressed itself on this same evening in a controversy about places at table. Jesus, conscious of His divine dignity and against Peter's protest, performed for them this lowliest service. His act of humility actually cleansed their hearts of selfish ambition, killed their pride, and taught them the lesson of love.
This chapter is sobering; in that the congregation is being challenged in verse 1 as to what is being spoken and judged. This would certainly indite those who were in the leadership in the O.T. system; but certainly could allude to the church today. The reward of the wicked is certainly without mincing of words here; verse 3 through 5 shows the intransigence; again even with those who would be "charmers" as it were; perhaps trying to woo them back to the truth with Godly wisdom. The analogy of breaking their teeth in verse 6 is certainly not isolated to this passage; we see psalms 3:7 and a passage in Job along with others with similar sentiments.
They are said to melt away ;in verse 8; and to be taken away in a whirlwind in verse 9. Again the comment in verse 10 is similar to that of the ashes of the wicked ( Malachi 4:3). Finally; men shall see the justice of God toward the righteous through such judment in the last verse.
We need to consider well the results of Korah's rebellion; and that of others who were among the exiles from Egypt in particular who knew of God's glory firsthand but chose to reject it for foreign gods with some delusion that comforts of this world that they left behind in Egypt would somehow be found. Judgment certainly is greater for those who know the truth; but reject it; better they never knew the truth according to Peter ( 2 Peter 2:21). A change of heart surely must occur to truly be saved; a heart of flesh instead of stone (Ezekeil 36:26).
If Jesus was referring to the Queen of Sheba, then this queen visited King Solomon to find out about his great wisdom.
Some say she is from the land of Yemen, where Sheba is located. Some say she was a queen of Ethiopia or Egypt.
Another place I read she may have come from Beer-sheba, located at the very southern border of Israel near the Negev desert wilderness (which may have been viewed as the end of the land).
She was a seeker of wisdom and was willing to travel to visit the wisest person on earth at that time, Solomon.
God knows of Every Baby Ever Conceived - In Reply on Psalms 139 - 3 years ago
Jeremiah 20:17
Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.
Job 31:15
Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?
Psalms 22:10
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psalms 22:9
But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psalms 127:3
Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psalms 139:13
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Luke 1:42
And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. (Speaking of Jesus)
Isaiah 49:1
Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels (uterus) of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
Ecclesiastes 11:5
As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who makes all.
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Matthew 19:12
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs by men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive.
I Am that Michael Isaac Dale on Psalms 58 - 5 years ago
A godly Prophet speaks of things that do come. The wicked falsely prophesies things that did come or cannot come. If a man says, The end is nigh! but denies Christ is come, he is false as Christ must first come. As it is written: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
God will set things right. Sometimes we are grieviously wronged by others who we have not sought to embrace in our lives. A man makes himself our enemy without us ever knowing his name. God calls us not to the part of vengeance but to the dependence on divine intervention to set things right.
I have this verse written on my left upper arm. It reminds me daily in a nutshell, what goes around comes back around. In time the faithful will be rewarded and the wicked will be punished.
Here it seems that David is accusing the corrupt judges (vv 1,2) of gross wickedness. Such was their deplorable condition that they displayed their propensity towards evil soon after birth. He says, that "they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies"; I see that he is taking some license in using hyperbole, for how does a newborn babe speak lies?
These men were not wicked in the womb, even though David acknowledged that he himself "was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me" ( Psalm 51:5). Whether in Psalm 58 or 51, the indication is that the sin nature already exists in the embryo & of course that sin nature manifests not long after by the committing of sin. David saw that the wickedness of those men was so great that their propensity to sin was manifest soon (some time?) after birth - not in the womb. If you believe that a "newborn baby is subject to the wrath of God and eternal death..." (& by extension, it must also be subject to God's Wrath in the womb), when no sin has been committed, that would be an extreme position to hold to, which I believe is baseless. There is no Scripture at all to suggest what you state & of course all those babies that are stillborn, aborted, have their lives taken after birth or simply cannot have the Gospel preached to them for their response, are all subject to God's Wrath & eternal death (& as you understand it: separation from God into annihilation & oblivion).
The 'age of accountability' is simply an attempt to show that our sin nature is judged only when we sin outside of the womb - never inside. Sin is a deliberate act of offending God - it can't be done on the inside.
I understand why we might concoct a theory of an "age of accountability". But God puts that idea to rest in very clear and concise language.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are ESTRANGED from the WOMB: they go ASTRAY as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE : There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Because of Adam's sin, mankind is infected with SIN and is spiritually DEAD from the moment of conception. And it requires God's action to change that condition. The Bible declares that action as becoming BORN AGAIN. That is SALVATION.
There is no "age of accountability". No matter how much we may wish it to be so.
Apart from salvation, a new born baby is subject to the wrath of God and eternal death, whatever that may be.
I am unaware of any verse or passage in the Bible that speaks of an "age of accountability".
The Bible does say some very ugly things about our condition from the moment of conception apart from salvation. And that we are spiritually DEAD.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the WOMB: they go astray as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
I had done a commentary on this 7 months ago. In systematically studying the Psalms I am reflecting today on my own life. In assessing old habits; old hobbies and other things I realize that all things that I do now if they aren't motivated by Christ and the new life in me then they are still being desired by the old sin nature. As part of the "congregation" in verse 1 (the confessing church) I need to make sure that indeed I am working out of the possession of the Holy Spirit; as nothing can ever be improved in the old nature. Thus comes the warning about the demon leaving someone and coming back with 7 worse after there is a veneer of "cleaning house" as it were. ( Matthew 12:43-45).
Nothing is done well in isolation in our Christian walk. We need the balance of others in order to hold us accountable; exhort and encourage. Nonetheless; it is up to us to take time for personal devotionals and to heed to the voice of the Lord in regard to instruction. If we aren't listening to Him when alone then we are not likely to heed to the instruction and wisdom from above that He ministers to us through others.
There are references here to the wicked in regard to physical and spiritual (eternal) judgments (v. 6-9). Verses 10-11 show how the righteous will rejoice and "wash their feet in the blood" of the wicked (v. 10). (see also Malachi 4:3). This demonstrates that even now we should desire our own death; while still hoping for the soon Rapture/Resurrection of the saints. We need to heed the message in regard to Lot's wife and not have our hearts till turned to the world and away from the Lord. This takes daily discipline and is a struggle as long as we remain in this fleshly existence. This also demonstrates who is truly saved and who is not as there is no real love for Christ for those pretenders. May we examine our hearts today and daily. ( 2 Cor. 13:5).
Relevant today : Ezekiel 13:22,23
Acts 5:1-10 in context Acts 4:32-37, continued into Acts 5,
Wisdom about : Proverbs 14:5-25, Proverbs 29:12, John 8:42-44 in context John 8,
Psalms 40:4, Isaiah 63:8, Zephaniah 3:13,
They are said to melt away ;in verse 8; and to be taken away in a whirlwind in verse 9. Again the comment in verse 10 is similar to that of the ashes of the wicked ( Malachi 4:3). Finally; men shall see the justice of God toward the righteous through such judment in the last verse.
We need to consider well the results of Korah's rebellion; and that of others who were among the exiles from Egypt in particular who knew of God's glory firsthand but chose to reject it for foreign gods with some delusion that comforts of this world that they left behind in Egypt would somehow be found. Judgment certainly is greater for those who know the truth; but reject it; better they never knew the truth according to Peter ( 2 Peter 2:21). A change of heart surely must occur to truly be saved; a heart of flesh instead of stone (Ezekeil 36:26).
Ephesians 4:22, Psalms 40:4, Psalms 63:11, Psalms 101:7, Proverbs 6:16-19, Proverbs 14:5,25, Proverbs 19:5,9, Proverbs 29:12,
Hopefully these are helpful
Some say she is from the land of Yemen, where Sheba is located. Some say she was a queen of Ethiopia or Egypt.
Another place I read she may have come from Beer-sheba, located at the very southern border of Israel near the Negev desert wilderness (which may have been viewed as the end of the land).
She was a seeker of wisdom and was willing to travel to visit the wisest person on earth at that time, Solomon.
Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.
Job 31:15
Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?
Psalms 22:10
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psalms 22:9
But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psalms 127:3
Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psalms 139:13
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Luke 1:42
And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. (Speaking of Jesus)
Isaiah 49:1
Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels (uterus) of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
Ecclesiastes 11:5
As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who makes all.
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Matthew 19:12
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs by men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive.
Hope you find it in here. Mishael
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?