Discuss Revelation 11 Page 12

Rev.11:3 If The Rapture dies not happen until The Two Witnesses get Raptured, then does that mean that The Body of Christ will need to go through the plagues and bloody waters at Their Commands?

Thank You for Your reply. Elisa went up too without physical death. I got Elijah and Elisa from The King James Version following the footnotes of verses.

The two witness don't have to be Elijah and Elisa. It don't say who they are. Maybe they are you and me. Would'nt that be something. I would be glad to be one. But it could be those two or maybe Enoch could be one, since he or Elijah never died on Earth. They were taken up to Heaven while they were still alive.

Thank You.

Mathew 24:3-36

Mathew 24:36

I do not believe Elijah or Elisa are the witnesses. They are mentioned as one in the old testament and two in the new. Married couples were considered one in the old and two in the new. The only possibility is a married couple living in this age. Plus though they can appear in human form. Elisha and Elisa are in the incorruptible body, true death being not possible in that state.

Much has been stated about the seven year time line, but it should be clear that the first three and a half years are the call for redemption with the world following the Beast and the Beast colluding with the false Messiah leading to the building of the false temple. This culminates with the need for the final stand of the witnesses in Jerusalem at the temple. After the witnesses we have a world wide civil war as many believe the witnesses about the false Beast, Messiah and temple and turn on them. This followed by three and a half years of strife leading to Armageddon. I have left the pre tribulation concept behind and here's why. First, if millions have died for Christ then why should we be any different, especially since many of us have been deceived and not beyond Earthly judgment of our poor decisions. Second no clear mention of this bail out for Christians actually exist in the Bible, just possible references. Third, why as Christians should we not want to help sinners when they need us most. Fourth and most clearly Jesus is definitely stated to come at the end of the tribulation at the time of the final battle. This is the one and only time he will come to announce he is the king of kings and to redeem the Earth forever with the day of the Lord beginning. I have come to the conclusion looking at Biblical teachings over the last 140 years and have realized a pre tribulation redemption of the body is a big selling tool for preachers and nothing else. As for me I would refuse to go and stay to help the sinners to mercy like I believe Jesus would. Not 'run away' like a coward.

No believer has ever dared to judge himself and claim to be 'Born Again'. The Word of God teaches us that you must be 'Born Again'. Your experience is typical of a religious experience based on man-made doctrines. It is also referred to as self-transformation ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15). You are still wearing the same garment that by nature you were born with but were not transformed by God.

Our message therefore remains the same: Ye must repent. The repentance process and the transformation and conversion by God takes many years as God teaches all those that come to Him. God taught a host of approximately two million people for forty years. Only Joshua and Caleb were left of the original group that crossed the Red Sea. All the rest died in the wilderness. How long the transformation and conversion process takes depends on the journey of every person. Dianne & I started our journey in 1984 and still submit our bodies as a living sacrifice each day for the transformation and renewal of our minds ( Romans 12:1,2). We know, we are slow learners.

Like every other religious experience your 'truck' experience was just your high-minded thinking. That is not how a person becomes 'Born of God'.

By attending a man-made institution a few hours a week ( Acts 7:48; 17:24), does not mean that a person can make a claim that they are followers of Christ and 'Born Again'. That is falsehood, as in truth they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9). This is how Satan has transformed Himself into an angel of light ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg

Dear Andy, Unlike what you believe as you have privately interpreted against me, the scriptures (judged outside of the hedge, the Bride of Christ) against my witness, which is the Holy Ghost, I will not be limited to your interpretation of the saved and non- saved by choosing by your will to project the God's Holy scriptures on me or others.

Carleton

Until the need to share my testimony today became apparent, I had never before correlated my born again experience with the vision of the Lamb. Both experiences took place in a very similar truck. Both trucks were single axle delivery trucks with fruit. Both experiences happened in the very early morning before there was sunlight. The small difference was a year and a half, and that my born again experience I was in the back in the box part of the truck with the fruit, pouring my sins out by faith in the healing blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ at Calvary, where I found my burdens of sin relieved and immediately a peace came into my heart which I understand as the Holy Spirit in me to this day. In the vision, I was driving the truck up front, thinking of the height, depth and breadth of the Kingdom of Christ when I was taken up in the waking vision while the truck continued driving down the highway heading West towards State College for deliveries.

Carleton

Dear Readers, I want to be very clear, I found repentance and was made free of the burdens of my sins for at least a year and a half before the vision of the Lamb of God occurred while driving a truck on I-80 in Pennsylvania, the state of my birth.

Carleton

Few people agree who the 2 Witnesses are.

Long time ago I thought it would be Moses and Elijah = the Law and the Prophets.

I believe through the internet everyone on earth will see the Two Witnesses on their tv or YouTube.

Be born again; and use your TESTIMONY and tell others how you came to believe.

Each individual testimony is powerful and if you give your testimony to the Lord of the Harvest (Jesus); he will lead you to people who are ready to hear the GOSPEL (virgin birth, sinless life, Crucifixion and death; and the Resurrection of Jesus.

Just like in here.... have a comment you can add, to what someone expounds on a subject. It's that easy. Almost everyone will accept being prayed for. Why? Because life hurts often and everyone needs hope.

Love turned inward is ego. Love turned outward, is Jesus.

Mishael

Thank you! Regarding air quality here in the West it is terrible, there is ash everywhere. I haven't washed my hair yet from working outside and my hair with the sweat and ash is caked. We need for everyone to pray for rain and snow.

God bless the prayers for the Western United States.

I know. I'ts hard for me to see California burning. Today Yellowstone is having numerous small quakes.

I think I hurt someone by being oblivious. I trust the Lord to help this pass.

I guess warfare is bad because of the National Prayer?

It may not seem like it Mishael, and we may not agree on everything but I do listen to you as a brother in Christ.

Thank you,

Carleton

Arguing is unfruitful.

Matthew 12:33

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Guys, we are the fruit. Jesus is the Tree.

How many Seals are open up presently?

Rev.9:15 NKJV cites that the four angels bound at The Euphrates River were prepared for the hour, day, month and year of killing one third of mankind.

Rev 9:15 KJV cites it like it could be a year, a month, a day, and an hour that The Battle of Armageddon could last that long.

Therefore, Rev.11:2 of the Gentiles treading under foot The Holy City for forty two months could happen after The Euphrates River dries up and after The Battle of Armageddon.

So The Two Witnesses could be revived and raptured up before The Battle of Armageddon.

Looking at all references to The Euphrates River and The Battle of Armageddon in The Book of Revelation, points to The Battle of Armageddon happening when Jesus Christ returns. Then comes the feast for the birds of the air to enjoy eating the dead which Jesus Christ conquered after He returns.

The main question is are we supposed to be looking for The Two Witnesses in Golgatha where Jesus Christ was crucified next? Or are we supposed to be looking for The Euphrates River to dry up and then The Battle of Armageddon and then The Two Witnesses of Elijah and Elisa in Golgatha.

I see it that the next event in line are The Two Witnesses, Elijah and Elisa. Therefore, The Euphrates River has to last until Jesus Christ returns. The Battle of Armageddon we will deal with it when Jesus Christ returns.

Rev. 16:12-16 Cite on The Battle of Armageddon and the Euphrates River dried up making a path for the kings from the east of The Euphrates River. Jesus Christ appears to be present too.

Rev.11:2 Gentiles treading foot in The Holy City for forty two months. Are these Gentiles of the Battle of Armageddon?

Rev. 9:15 cites that the four angels in the Euphrates River were loosed and prepared for a year, month, day, and hour to kill a third of mankind. Does this mean that The Battle of Armageddon lasts that long?

Rev. 9:13-21 cites the 6th Angel's trumpet of The Euphrates River being dried up and this is again a citing of The Battle of Armageddon.

Does Revelation 11:2 happen after The Two Witnesses? The Gentiles tread under foot for forty and two months. Could this be after the Euphrates River dries up and these Gentiles of the east of it then take over the Holy City? Then Jesus Christ comes back? Then wins This Battle of Armageddon and the birds of the air enjoy their feast of these Gentiles?

The Rapture could happen when The Two Witnesses are taken up after they are revived.

The Battle of Armageddon happens when Jesus Christ returns. The Seven Trumpet blasts say this.

The nations are taken to the Battle site of Armageddon. This is after the nations give their authority to the anti christ.

Do the gentiles trample the outer courts before or after The Two Witnesses?

The Two Witnesses are Elijah and Elisa.

Could be since neither of them died a natural death. But the bible told no names for these two witnesses. Could be you and I.

I believe the two witnesses to be Enoch and Elijah.

Hi. you are wrong but I believe you know this.

thank you. I had no idea how to respond to that statement or if I should. again thank you.

2 Peter 3 < link

There is no fixing the Earth. Too many scriptures point to the Lord setting it on fire. Even the Earth is being readied for Jesus's Return, at the 2nd Advent.

*****

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,

and the elements shall MELT with fervent HEAT, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be BURNED up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on FIRE shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent HEAT?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Jesus died for our sins. The old meaning of "for" is because. He died because of our sins, not to wash them away.

We think we will suffer no repercussions for the tonnes of plastic we dump into the oceans, the man-made climate change, the overpopulation, the destruction of the forests for greed? We can twist this verse to whatever we want it to mean in order to exculpate ourselves, but it's clear as glass: we will suffer unless we work to end our greed-driven, self-indulgent behavior. It's happening right now. We have to work with God's gifts to us, not destroy them for money. Unfortunately people worship money more than God.