Discuss Revelation 11 Page 13

Etta, you've raised a valid point, that there are many around us, even amongst believers, who remain fearful & perplexed as to the present pandemic & to what will happen in their 'future' & in the world. True, we can either sit in a corner & fret, or we can be encouraged from God's Word & His Spirit, to us being in the centre of His Will, in His Love & in His Care, no matter what transpires from all this.

And of course, to those without Christ & without hope, what an opportunity to share the news of salvation & to demonstrate our confidence & hope in the Promises of our King. The unbeliever looks at this turmoil in the world & their lives as devastating without any good coming out of it (except for cleaner air & nature returning back to normality), but for us, this time is precious as we take stock of our own faith & real focus in life and the opportunity that God gives to others, to hear His Message of Salvation that gives true Hope in the midst of their crumbling world.

Kathy, not sure what you're looking for, but if it has to do with any other Scripture that has resemblance to Psalm 23 in showing God's care for His people, then have a look at: Isaiah 40:9-11; Jeremiah 31:10,11; Ezekiel 34:11-16; John 10:11-17; 1 Peter 2:25. There are of course, many other references to the duty of shepherds & the many shepherds in Israel, not of flocks, but of God's people, who have not done according to what God required of them & therefore received some stern warnings.

Jesus Christ is for believers now, their Great Shepherd, Who not only gave His Life for His sheep, but will one day come to gather them in a special way, into His fold to save them from the Anger of God that is coming upon the world, & to relocate them to a new "sheep pen", i.e. unto Himself in the New Jerusalem where we will be with Him & the Father forever.

Another reference for the 23rd Psalms

I have never had any visions of end-time events. All I have is what was given to John in the book of Revelation. Plus we have Matthew Chapters 25 and 25. In the book of Revelation, John got to see the whole thing happen while it was happening. We don't understand that because we haven't gotten there yet. We live in a time/space factor, and everything goes according to the clock and calendar for us. But it is not that way for God, and John got caught up in spirit to see the whole thing happen while it was taking place. We haven't been there yet. One thing is for certain, it will happen exactly how John described it because he literally witnessed it happening while it happened.

I think we have to be careful about how we approach end-time events. When dealing with end-time prophecy, we have to always keep in mind that all prophecies concerning the last days are based upon Daniel 9:24-27, which presents the 70th week of Daniel. Plus, all end-time prophecies are centered on the Jewish people. If a prophecy is ever presented as centered on the United States of America, you know it is going to be off.

The 70th week of Daniel is a 7 year period, which will be the 7 year Tribulation Period. Right now, we are living in what is called the time of the Gentiles. The time of the Gentiles began on April 6th, 32 A.D. when Christ died and will end when Christ comes for His church. That will be the rapture. And from that point, there will be a 7 year period of tribulation before Christ returns at His second coming. And by the way, we come back with Him! What a blessed day that will be! So by now, you've probably figured out that I am a Pre-Tribber. I firmly believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture. I know there are different views on when the rapture will take place (Pre/Mid/Post), but I stand pretty firm on my position of a Pre-Tribulation rapture.

Mishael, I'm new to this discussion board, but I was drawn to your comment because God began to speak to my spirit saying, "this is the place,' you can sink your teeth, when you feel disconnected from your church.'

Okay, here we go. A) Revelation 11 talks about the two witnesses, B) I have visions too, I'm also called into intercession praying for our great country and it breaks my heart to see how we in this great land are treating one another, especially during this crisis, when we've been given so much, but we can sit here and fret or we can get busy for God's kingdom, because time is short.

With social distancing, we're pretty relegated to social media, text messages and phone calls, but God will continue to empower His people to do what He's called us to do, if we're willing.

Thank you for your comment, may God continue to empower you to do His work in the fullness of His might and power,

When I was yet a baby Christian I got into street evangelizing after I attended a storefront church. The first time I went alone I told a group of people coming out of a bar they were blindly going to hell intoxicated. They just laughed and we know we are. I was devastated. I went home and was trying to figure out what went wrong. I hear this voice in my spirit: "are you done doing it you way? I said "Yes Sir!!"

He showed me to study to show myself approved. To intercede for people I would meet. To pray to the Lord of the Harvest to send people in my direction. Then to pray for the people to take those first steps. I gave many people rides to church. Then over to my place for spaghetti. Well, I had times when I knew I was walking with angels nearby. I never saw them. I had the greatest feelings of joy unspeakable.

You feel in your spirit when's the right moment to speak to someone. Most people will not refuse you saying a prayer for their needs.

I'm older now. I have visions. Two years ago; I saw hideous storms, earthquakes in other countries, fires; the stock market; riots and pestilence. I had asked the Lord how prideful America would bow it's knee to the Antichrist. The vision was His answer.

Six months ago He said "Fire." I studied everything in the Bible. He said, "it is not global warming." The earth temperature is rising for end time events. There are scriptures on that.

It's about time for someone to stand up and speak peace; one world economy; one world religion.

Like this election: they're going to have us out in the street, in a line waiting for toilet paper and rationed food like the Russians. I think this is all a dress rehearsal for the rapture. I hope it's PRE and not POST.

What do you think

The *real Jews* are not circumcised by flesh but in spirit. Read Romans 2 : 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

You are building on a solid foundation for sure. When I read your posts, there is always something that stands out. Here, you say we should be praying to the Lord of the HARVEST to send out workers (Christians) to evangelize. Amen!

I wish everyone could see the truth in what you just said. He sends the workers out. I feel bad for believers who are being told that they need to get out there and get people saved. There's a lot of pressure being put on believers. Some are even told that the Lord would have come back by now if we would have been out there doing our job. There is nothing wrong with going out and sharing the gospel message, but if it is not the Lord sending us, we need to stay put.



I spent some time with a Christian brother about 6 months ago camping at a music festival. Obviously there was a large crowd. He wanted me to go with him to share the gospel with a group of people that were not too far from where we were set up. I asked him why he wanted to go. He said because that's what we're supposed to do as Christians. I told him to go ahead, and he went. Later that evening he asked me why I didn't go with him. I looked at him and asked him if the Lord put it on his heart to go and do that? He thought about it for a second, and then said no. So I told him that's why I didn't go. If the Lord doesn't send us, we are doing it out of our own human ambition. There's no reward for that!

And yes, the two witnesses are going to be evangelizing in the streets of Jerusalem, also, the 144,000 Jews that are sealed by God who will be evangelizing, and plus the angel flying around mid-heaven for 3-1/2 years warning people. I think God pretty much has the salvation plan covered.

Thanks for the humor. I haven't heard the phrase "wig out" in such a long time!

I've been clobbered a few times, by the Holy Spirit on that subject. It hurts, to hurt Him. That started me on a path to understand why. I realized, from Scripture, that God has an end time program for them. I don't think they'll all be saved. I think the two witnesses are going to play a huge part in turning Jews to see that Jesus was, and is, their Messiah.

Right now Jews are returning from countries they fled to since the 1900's. Some of them hid in the Catholic Church. But they're coming home now and lots of them are born again and know Jesus as their Savior. They aren't being secret Christians. They're happy and vocal. Having evangelistic meetings. Wish I cold go and see it.

HATE, IS NOT part of our born again witness to an unsaved world. Jew, Gentile, Greek, Others (etc) are all welcome by Jesus to be born again now. We should be praying to the Lord of the HARVEST to send out workers (Christians) to evangelize; answer their questions.

If a person has a heart for the Son Of God, they will lay that hate on the altar of God and walk away.

Anyone want to know the history of the dispersion of the Jews, can read a book by Stan Telchin, called Betrayed. He was born again trying to prove Jesus was not the Messiah. Heartwarming read; lots of history. The book has much more explanation of the history.

AbeBooks dot com has that book and all of Arthur Bloomfield's books about the End times for the world and the Jews. Arthur was old but his writings are suddenly falling into evening news.

Being a Christian is hard when others wig out on theology. We have to TEST the spirits and be sure everything is of God; reveals the Love of Jesus. Greatest Teacher ever is the Holy Spirit. He will open up revelation that will enlarge your heart (in a good way). It will be so sweet to you, you'll want to sing endlessly.... even if you sound like a frog, like me.

The opposite of Love is Hate. Gotta let that go. God is Love. That's our measuring stick. Amen

Mishael,

You make a great point. Something else I was pondering on is that if all Jews deny Christ and are considered to be antichrist, why would God permit antichrist Jewish men to write most, if not all, the books of the New Testament? It doesn't make much sense to me!

Jesus was born to Jewish parents! He was raised Jewish! How are you going to reconcile that fact?

Garry, as you've read in the Scriptures ( Exodus 3:14), that God gave Moses this Name, "I AM that I AM" when Moses was called to go to the children of Israel to explain to them Who this God was that spoke to him & what He was about to do for them. And so God gave them the Name that they would know Him by. They would have previously known God by the Name Elohim or El Shaddai: God Almighty, but through the passage of time, their memory (& love) faded for Him. But now, God says that I want them to know Me by this Name.

In Hebrew, this Name is, "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" & the direct English translation is, "I will be what I will be". However, we generally understand it to be, "I AM what I AM". And then to explore this Name further, we find that it encompasses other aspects of God's Being. Therefore, to fully realize the Fullness of His Name, we could describe it as: "He is the self-sufficient, self-sustaining, self existent God Who was, Who is, and Who will be". The meaning also conveys: He has dominion over all things, the Source of His Power, and His Eternal Nature. (Note, this extended description copied from Bible Study Tools). This meaning, was to Israel, an understandable description of the God Who has sustained & Who will carry them out of their oppression in Egypt.

However, to leave this Special Name without its full application would be irresponsible. Jesus often uses this term, mostly in a general way when seen in the Gospels, but more specifically in Rev 1:8, 11, 17 & others, where His usage of I AM, is clearly to denote His equality with the Father (The I AM) & a veiled reference to Jesus' Creative Work with the Father ( Gen 1:26).

What is meant by "I Am that I Am."

Jesus loves everyone? Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi Chapter 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

And I hated Esau, And I hated Esau there was a reason why the Lord hated Esau. long study.

Bob Hilt:

Jesus loves everyone but He had to rebuke the Pharisees (as you notated) and those who were not of His Father. Jesus loved Judas Iscariot already knowing what seed he was from. Even knew Judas would sell Him out lol.

The 144,000 in Rev 11. are not the Pharisees. Much like His Bride will not include anyone whose father is not God.

As far as the Star of David on the Israeli flag; I know where it came from and what it relates to.

I agree, the great majority (Jew or Gentile) will not spend eternity with Him. Only a small remnant.

God bless!

Jesus loved some of the Jews and others not so much as recorded here in harsh language.

Jesus speaking to the Pharisee Jews - Bible book of John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

48 Then answered the Jews

Then answered the Jews

Then answered the Jews

pretty obvious who Jesus called of their father the DEVIL.

Obviously not all of them since some came to the Lord.

Bible old testament book of Amos 5:26 But ye [Jews] have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch (Satanic god child sacrifice by fire) and Chiun your images, the STAR STAR STAR of your god, which ye made to yourselves. (Jews carried what star?)

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye [Jews] took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR STAR STAR of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

What STAR STAR STAR do the jews (even so called Messianic) carry? Moloch and Remphan

Moloch was the satanic god that demanded children be burned alive in fire.

Remphan has reference to the giants, think Goliath

Look at the Israeli flag do you see a star that they have carried for centuries?

Some shall repent and turn to the Lord in time as he has his remnant.

But the great majority? We shall see what happens.

Bob Hilt:

Elijah/Moses are the prophets in Rev. 11 (not Enoch). Research Shabbat mey-eyn olam ha-ba and Pesach Seder (Passover etc.) Shabbat and Pesach Seder are yearly feasts... setting a place at their table for Elijah, and leaving the door open for Moses. It will give you a better understanding as to why Moses/Elijah are the Rev. 11 prophets. Jews/Hebrews all around the world prepare (yearly) and wait for the fulfillment of prophecy.

Malachi 4:5

Foretells of a (one) Gentile prophet that would have the same spirit as/of Elijah. As crazy as that might sound, the Gentile (Christianity) dispensation also needed a prophet.

Although it is controversial among Christians... yes, the rapture takes place before the tribulation. When Moses/Elijah appear in Israel (modern-day Jerusalem), God has already taken His elect. They will not experience the tribulation.

The Bride kept God's Word (even though it was hard) and correctly followed the road map (The Bible, His instructions).

Those on this earth that refuse to follow God and live unjustly will go through the tribulation.

The great tribulation occurs after Moses/Elijah (slain, left for 3 1/2 days, and brought back to life).

God is gracious, loving, and forgiving, but we see in the Bible how He views sin. Sodom is one example of His wrath.

At some point, we know He will deal with His chosen people (Jews/Hebrews); they are the 144,000 spoken of in Rev 11. Moses/Elijah will come to them, not the Christians/Gentiles. That is who they preach to for 3 1/2 years. God revealed Himself (through Jesus Christ) was rejected/crucified (New Testament). During this time, the Jews/Hebrews will understand who they crucified. He loves them, and Rev. 11 is all about them and has nothing to do with Christians.

Bride of Christ. Elijah and possibly Moses or Enoch will be of the 2 witnesses in Revelation.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

then they get killed and this is proof of a pre trib rapture?

Revelation Chapter 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (our Lord Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem which is called spiritually SODOM)

so murdered prophets is proof of a pre trib rapture?

Enoch was raptured (taken up) representing the Bride in the last days. The Bride of Christ (includes those sleeping) is raptured. They are chosen/predestined to leave before the tribulation. Those that reject God's Word or fail to live according to His Word (includes the church, who would rather follow their own beliefs instead of the true Word) will go through the tribulation. God has an elect group of Gentiles that He chose to use as representation of Himself to fulfill Revelation. Therefore, Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses who will preach to the 144,000 for 3 1/2 years... then killed. Why Moses/Elijah...not Enoch? The Jews are waiting for the fulfillment of this prophecy. Judaism

Please I don't have peace pray for me anytime you feel like I will appreciate thank you what else can I do so that I can be strong in spiritual?

It is written that the thief comes to steal, to kill, and to destroy, but Jesus comes that you might have life and have it more abundantly. We all live to Christ and we all die to Christ so whether we live or die we belong to the LORD. Also, see 2 Corinthians 10: 4-5 about bringing all of our thoughts into the obedience of Christ. Peace comes from the LORD, are you at peace with this dream or in fear? When the LORD came surprisingly - He always says "Be Not Afraid". I believe that this is a spirit of fear from the enemy. If you can believe and be in agreement with me, then as Jesus says - We speak until this spirit of fear. "Be thou remove and cast into the sea and return not anymore unto Dianah and her family in Jesus name". His perfect Love casts out all fear. Resist the enemy and the enemy must leave. We cannot keep or loved ones alive or safe - but Jesus can and their lives are in His hands, and His hands and in the Father's Hand. God bless and keep you and your family safe always.

I have been dreaming about my family members everyday about death why do I have to repeat dreaming of death every day in my dream why?

Scriptures on prophesy/ prophesying

(There's rules, people) First start in Ezekiel chapter 3:10-11, 17-27. Then 13:1-15. Notice the WOE on verse 3.

Acts 2:17-18; John 6:63; 1 Corinthians 2;12, 14:31, 14:1, 13:9, 12:4. Revelation 11:3; 1 John 4:3, Romans 12:4-7

Poor Ezekiel; he was sent to the House of Israel. Prophetic ministry is just as then. It's serious when you speak in the Name of the Lord. Anything spoken that is of the flesh...will not be confirmed. Be prayerful.

"Thus saith the Lord" is serious business.

Glenda, the reference to Jerusalem ("street of that great City": Rev 11:8) is also made to the wicked city of Sodom ( Gen 13:13) & wicked country of Egypt ( Ezek 23:3; Ex 3:7 ff). This was the state of Jerusalem, for their wickedness not only by the Jewish leaders, but also in the sufferings & death of the Blessed Saviour. Then in Jn 19:17, the reference to Golgotha (place of a skull). Golgotha was in the vicinity of Jerusalem at a skull shaped hill; the Bible also calls this place, Calvary ( Lk 23:33). So there is no difference in these portions of Scripture - it is just the different names given to it & also figuratively refers to Sodom & Egypt.

The Bible tells us that when Jesus comes, everything will be destroyed ( 2 Peter 3:10) and lay desolate for 1000 years ( Jer. 25:33). According to Revelation 20, when that 1000 years are finished there will be a third coming of Christ with the saints. During this descent from heaven the wicked who have lain dead for 1000 years will be resurrected ( Rev 20:5) and Satan will gather together a great army and try to attack the city of GOD ( Rev 20:7-9)...but to no avail... the wicked who have come together, will be destroyed by GOD. Rev 20:9

Then GOD will set up HIS kingdom on the earth... The heavens and the earth will be made new... Rev 21:1-5..

Remember...Revelation is mostly symbolic... So, the verse is not saying Jesus was Crucified in Sodom, nor Egypt. However, during this time in history, when the word of GOD, was rejected, like during the French Revolution, the word of GOD was thrown out. The people rejected the WORD, the church and anything connected to it.

Many believers were killed or suffered at the hands of those that rejected GOD'S word. Since the devil cannot get to CHRIST, he attacks Christ through attacking CHRIST'S people. What was the state of France at that time?

1) They had the mindset of Pharoah: "Who is the Lord that I should obey him?"

2) The nation was in a state of COMPLETE licentiousness and sexual immorality

The enemy birthed All sorts of "isms" during this time: Atheism, Darwinism, Communism, Socalism... Bottomless Pit Ideologies. People rejected GOD and this was the result..but 3 1/2 years later they recanted.

This can be supported historically. D'Aubigne's History of the Reformation.

All the modern signs may seem to show that the woman represents the RC religion /organisation, but please consider Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. The "great city" is clearly Jerusalem, my dears - in the Future Day of the LORD! The seven mountains represent the seven kingdoms under which Israel was held captive - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the seventh kingdom into which the vile person comes and becomes the Antichrist when Satan enters into him. The man will be "the 8th" - used to bring judgments on rejecters of The Lamb! basar-blessings.org

Malachi Chapter 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The two witnesses are the two Olive trees and the two lamp stands. Search the scriptures and see who the two Olive trees and two lamp stands are.

I say you are correct in your belief. Some of revelation was past, some present in John's day and some was future like chapters 20-22.