Discuss Revelation 12 Page 3

I love your reply, open dialogue. Because I'm unable to detail what I post due to the rapture would happen before I finished. I could go on forever as this is like hunting for a treasure with limitless treasures to be found and no ending.

Pertaining to Robert Breaker teachings, if you listen closely, he will state and demonstrate with charts in his opinion and ask how many coincidences to make one think; is it or isn't it?

Then he will make comments saying he doesn't know, could it be, etc. he does move fast and is definitely a critical thinker.



I put things together from several sources , each Bible teacher, pastor, phd, scholar, etc., that I choose to listen to must fit my criteria and that is teaching from this book, period.

What Robert Breaker does with his math & charts would most likely be meaningless to me if I didn't listen to Sr. Pastor Gary Hamrick, Cornerstone Chapel, Dr David Jeremiah, the late Dr Ed Hindson, Pastor Jack Hibbs, Jerren Lewis (AoC network) and, David C. Pack's video "Understanding the Book of Revelation"(rcg.org), was a powerful video for me by explaining how one needs the "Keys" to unlock the "Codes"

otherwise the reading is meaningless.

Being a bit slow at "getting it" this video should be the first thing for newer Christians or old ones like myself who didn't read the Bible because as Pack stated in the video, one needs for understanding

Hamrick's Revelation_Series Intro, he states this is one of the hardest subjects to teach, he clearly states it's heavy stuff.

For me, all the above compliment each other. *Strangely* on one of Breaker's videos about end times, he stopped at 1997 (the church ages) He started at 0 (crucifixion) IDKY, *something* made me add "33" to 1997. Jesus' age at death, it came to *2030*. Breaker is demonstrating, not etched in stone, he only displays charts of his own critical thinking (CT)raises some decoding possibilities.

Nobody knows the day or hour but the signs & seasons are given.

Jimbob,

(Part 2):

For your next question, "If all those who are left on the earth to start the 7-year tribulation period are non-believers then who would the war in ( Rev. 12:17) be against who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ?"

Here is my understanding of Revelation 12:17:

First of all, it says that the dragon was very angry with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, (and the remnant would be the believing Jews), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. So, as I think I already mentioned before, there is a 144,000 Jews who are sealed on their foreheads who will be protected. But there will be other Jews on the earth who will receive the testimony, especially from the two witnesses who are in the streets of Jerusalem.

But there will be people on the earth. And we know that there will even be an angel flying in heaven warning the people not to take the mark of the beast, but to believe in God. But their lives will be taken if they do not receive the number. They will not be allowed to live because they've rejected the system. And they'll be killed with the sword.

And that will fulfill this group that is underneath the altar when God says to avenge your blood is not yet, there's still more coming, more people who have to die during the Tribulation Period that will be taken up under the altar of God. But there will be other Jews and Gentiles here on the earth that basically will believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah and Savior. They will lose their lives. But after Satan sees that his efforts to chase the nation into the wilderness fail, he'll go after the remnants seed.

(Part 2):

Jimbob,

Where I said the word council in Mark 13:9 is literally the Sanhedrin, I got this from reading it in the Greek Text. The word used in the Textus Receptus is SUNEDRIA, and it is the word for Sanhedrin. This can also be found in your Strong's Concordance #G4892, which defines it as the Jewish Sanhedrin; by analogy, a subordinate tribunal:-council. Thayer's Greek Lexicon lists it as the Sanhedrin, the great council at Jerusalem.

Now for your question, "what could cause one to be (delivered up) and killed during great tribulation?" You say "The mark of the beast will." If you are saying that those who refuse to take the mark will be killed (beheaded), then I agree. I can't agree that this will be the church because as you know, I believe the church will not be here at that time. Only non-believers will be here. They will all be warned not to take the mark. Some will heed to the warning and receive Christ, and refuse to take the mark. They will be killed.

As for Revelation 12:17, the "woman" in this verse is making reference to the nation Israel, not the church. It says that the dragon was wroth (very angry) with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (the believing Jews), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So, there is a 144,000 Jews who are sealed on their foreheads. And they will be protected. But there will be other Jews on the earth who will receive the testimony, especially from the two witnesses who are in the streets of Jerusalem. And the believing Jews that will be here on the earth, after Satan sees that he can't get to these 144,000 that are sent up to what many believe is the rock city of Petra, which is already stacked and stored with food, and many believe that will be the place.

I definitely agree that the WORD OF GOD is --

Hi Lisanne,

I hope you don't mind my reply.

I watched the video you listed and like you said it is detailed, and he tied a lot to his charts with many dates and signs that would be difficult to verify. Is he correct? I cannot say, I will just point out a couple of things. When he used Virgo and Leo to describe the woman, he said the sun was at her head and the moon was at her feet and above her head were 12 stars using Leo and three planets coming up with the date of Sept. 23, 2017.

The things he said happened Trump moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem and Trump did that in December not on Sept. 23, Israel made Jerusalem its capital in 1980. The Rabbi said 10 jubilees until the Messiah, and he tied that to 2017 but Jesus has not returned, I could list more.

In Rev. 12 The woman is clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and 12 stars was upon her head. You can find in Gen. 37:9 a good description of Israel. He called the woman Israel but did not explain why he thought the woman was Israel.

I would only say beware of those setting dates when only God the Father knows, he did not come out to say a date but he was tiptoeing around it. We can put together signs and dates that are mesmerizing.

I hope you take this as my opinion of this video and not of you and please study for your understanding.

God bless,

RLW

Thanks Lisanne for the heads up. I had a quick look at it (first few minutes) since each of his messages are over an hour long, & I can see from his interpretation of the Revelation that many here will turn it off quickly. But I shall go through his messages as time permits. Thanks again.

I just watched this last night and found it to be very detailed with lining up signs, times, seasons, starsRobert Breaker's Revelation series chapter 12 literally taken from the KJB and can't elaborate enough on taking everything from KJB, no drifting.

Not sure if links are allowed but I couldn't believe the work done with math and dates and his charts

I found to be amazing.

No links allowed but you can find it on yt, open your Bible because he does move fast.

It's hard to put it down because it goes so deep there's no endthe Bible is amazing

Jcolli9,

We see this in Revelation 12:11 which reads "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony;

Through Christ's shed blood on the cross, He purchased us, and died for our sins. We are now the overcomers because Christ overcame Satan at the cross.

That's why John says in 1 John 4:4 that greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world, and that we have already overcome the spirit of antichrist.

So they overcame him, in the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony. And they loved not their lives unto death.

I think that's interesting. How far along do I love my life? Well, I'm willing to give it up right up to death. I mean, that might be a little too far.

In the book of Acts, as Paul was traveling towards Jerusalem, there were different prophecies given along the way that if Paul was going to go to Jerusalem, he was going to be persecuted and taken captive there.

And so the prophecies didn't say don't go. The prophecies just said you're going to face trouble. You're going to be imprisoned. You're going to be chained.

Because of those prophecies, the Christians tried to stop him from going. But Paul says to them "I don't count my life dear to myself. God has told me to go. If that's what awaits me, so be it!"

I think it is interesting that he says I don't count my life dear to myself. But that's the way we have a tendency to interpret some things that happen to us. That's because we love our lives too much.

Just think if someone came knocking on your door and asked are you a believer in Christ, and you said yes, and they said come on out here, you're next to be put to death. They do not love their lives unto death.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Jimbob. The narrative on the anti-Christ in The Revelation has received different interpretations - of which I'm not quite certain which one is best.

Using the Scriptures you've shared, I tend to understand it in this way:

a. Revelation chapter 12 is clearly referring to Satan & his dealings with Israel. I realize that some understand that the 'woman clothed with the sun' is the 'Church', but I don't share this view in light of the passage.

b. Revelation chapter 13. Unlike Satan (the dragon), a beast now arises from the sea. Because of the complex attributes of this beast, it can't represent a single person/entity. Rather, I interpret verse 1 as that of the satanic power that resided within the world's great powers (verse 1: seven heads, ten horns, ten crowns are explained in Revelation 17:8-14), and these exhibit the evil emanating from Satan, culminating in the anti-Christ.

c. Revelation 13:3: one of the beast's heads which was wounded to death & then healed, seems to be the last empire, of Rome, that is for now dead, but will one day revive in the person of the Anti-Christ. So my understanding that it isn't anti-Christ that is wounded & revived, but the Roman Empire, from which he arises. What form this empire takes one can only guess, with other nations in league with her.

d. Revelation 12:9: Satan is indeed "cast out into the earth with his angels", but Revelation 13:1 are the satanic empires of which anti-Christ will emerge ( Daniel 7:7,8 gives us view of this - particularly v8: "the little hornlike the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things").

e. Revelation 13:11: I attribute to the rising of the false prophet, exercising the power of the first beast, doing miracles, making & giving life to anti-Christ's image, killing the disobedient, & requiring the mark of anti-Christ upon all. Here is the unholy Trinity: Satan, the anti-Christ (the healed & restored head of the devilish empires that arose in history), & the false prophet.

THE GREAT TRIBULATION

All through the Prophets they speak of A DAY when great tribulation shall be poured on MAN, the very wrath of God.

The Prophets speak of this MAN; a substitute sent by God to have God's wrath pour out on ALL MANKIND, even those not yet born.

That MAN bore the SINS of ALL MANKIND;THE GREAT TRIBULATION, those already dead, those living during his life on earth, and those not yet born.

Matthew 24:21 ...for there shall be GREAT TRIBULATION ......

Jesus is prophesying of ALL THE PROPHECIES in the scriptures, that great tribulation, all the earth in birth pains.

Matthew 24:22 ...except those days should be shortened, there should no FLESH BE SAVED ....

You WERE SAVED by Christ death and resurrection, the DAYS OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION were SHORTENED, to THREE DAYS.......

Matthew 24:29 IMMEDIATELY after those days; from the time Christ left the supper table, the wrath of God was poured out on ALL MANKIND, yet only ONE MAN took it upon himself to be the SACRIFICE of that GREAT TRIBULATION.

Immediately after the TRIBULATION of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon (symbolic of Christ death) shall not give her light, and the stars stars shall FALL FROM HEAVEN .....

Revelation 12:4 ...and his tail drew a THIRD PART of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth.....

IT'S a PARABLE; explained in the PROPHECIES.....

Matthew 24:30 And then shall APPEAR THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN.....

IT'S A PARABLE.

Your were raised with Christ, THE NEW CREATION, CHRIST IN YOU .....

John 3:13 NO MAN has ascended into heaven, but he who came down from heaven, who is NOW IN HEAVEN.

IT'S a PARABLE.

You were raised with CHRIST, you are now the BODY OF CHRIST, the NEW HEAVEN ....CHRIST IN YOU .....

God Bless YOU! he gave himself TO YOU.

That they may be ONE, as we are ONE

Are these scriptures being properly applied?

Most think it implies one being condemned to hell.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the straight gate ....

Most all agree we are commanded to ENTER by the way of Christ, the straight GATE being Christ.

Mathew 7:13 .....for wide is the gate .....

This wide gate would also be Christ.

Matthew 7:13 .....and broad is THE WAY ....

John 14:6 ....I am THE WAY ....

Is not this all referring to Christ.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the straight gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat.

Is this not saying that WE (the deceived, Revelation 12:9) MUST enter the gate and have our carnal mind DESTROYED.

Matthew 7:14 (we have to be destroyed) Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto (immortal) LIFE, and FEW be that find it (because they never have their carnal minds DESTROYED)

Do lies and deception not have to be destroyed to find LIFE?

The wages of sin (lies and deception) is death.

1 John 3:8 ...for this purpose was the Son of God manifest, that he might DESTROY the WORK'S (lies and deception) of the devil.

God Bless YOU!

David:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a CHILD is BORN, a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulders .....

Isaiah 60:22 And a LITTLE ONE shall become a thousand (by the operation of God through Christ's death and resurrection ..... Colossians 2:12

Revelation 12:5 and she brought forth a man child, who was to RULE ALL NATIONS, with a rod of IRON ...

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh (lies and deception), and keepeth MY WORKS (the WORK'S of the CROSS), to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron ....even as I received of my Father.

Romans ...God did predestinate (a priesthood) to be conformed to the IMAGE of his SON ...

God Bless YOU!

David:

Revelation 12:10 ..... Now is come SALVATION, and strength, and the KINGDOM Of GOD, and the power of HIS CHRIST ...

Revelation 11:17 .... The kingdoms of this world (plural, ALL) have become the KINGDOM OF GOD (singular), and of HIS CHRIST ......

When did this HAPPEN; the day YOU walked to the front of a church and took the pastors hand, or did it HAPPEN 2000 years ago on a CROSS before you had any knowledge of the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism .....

YOU DIED and were RASIED 2000 years ago, but you weren't BURIED until you were born 2000 years later and BURIED in the TRUTH and power of his resurrection;by the LIFE that raise you 2000 years ago.

Man had no say, it's the WORK'S of God and HIS CHRIST, it is a GIFT of GOD, our INHERITANCE.

Psalms 2:8 .....and I (the Father) shall GIVE THEE the nations (ALL) for thine inheritance ....

God is only calling out the priesthood in THIS AGE (generation, so far 2000 years), the firstborne (feast of the weeks).

Romans 8:19 ....creation WAITETH for the manifestation of the SONS of GOD ...

Romans 8:21 Because creation ITSELF shall be DELIVERED ....into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Sons of GOD, in the likeness of Christ) shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau ....

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the JUDGEMENT WRITTEN: this honour hath all his saints.

ALL will bow and confess CHRIST as LORD.

God Bless YOU!

Jimbob;

Are the Prophecies in Revelation and the gospels any different than those in Mosses and the Prophets? Are, or they just a second witness?

There was no brick and mortar churches, no doctrines of those churches, until the apostles founded them.

How did the apostles and first men come to the truth of the KINGDOM OF GOD?

Luke 16:31 ....If they HEAR NOT Mosses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Acts 28:23 ....he (Paul) expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Mosses, and out of the Prophets, from morning till evening.

Galatians 1:17 Neither went I (Paul) up to Jerusalem to THEM which were apostles before me, but I went into Arabia (the wilderness) ......Where the Spirit taught him ......

Revelation 12:6 And the WOMAN (the bride of Christ, his church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, and there should feed her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The disciples were feed by Christ for one thousand two hundred and threescore days, 42 months, 3 1/2 years, you and I are still being feed by that 3 1/2 year ministry, except NOW, Christ is WITHIN US, his second coming; but, we are still in the wilderness being feed.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and a half (the great tribulation poured out on Christ) the Spirit of LIFE ( I am the Resurrection) from God entered into them ( those of OLD, the law and prophets, the old testament saints) --- Matthew 27:52-53 ---

Isaiah 26:19 ....with my dead body shall they arise .....

There are 2 deaths, 2 resurrections, 2 second comings and 2 judgements, one for the Firstfruits, feast of weeks, and one for the feast of the ingathering, AKA feast of tents, AKA feast of the tabernacles.

The woman, Christ bride, the church, rides the BEAST, and we are told TO COME OUT of here MY PEOPLE.

God Bless You!

True, U4YAH, 'Rapture' is never mentioned in the Bible. The Greek word used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is 'harpazo', which means 'to seize, to snatch away'. And we see the word & its application in Scriptures such as Acts 8:39 (of Philip); 2 Corinthians 12:2 (of Paul); & Revelation 12:5 (of Christ). The translators obviously described these events as taken from the Greek word for it, of a physical removing from one place to another.

Probably in an attempt to apply a more anglicized word to describe it (rather than 'harpazo'), the word 'Rapture' was used in more recent times, from the Latin, 'rapio'. If someone takes offense to using 'rapture', since the word is not found in the Bible, my suggestion has always been, 'then don't use it'. What's more important, is that we understand why this 'snatching away' was mentioned in the Bible & why it is used of believers in Paul's discourse.

Revelation 12:11 states that "they overcame because of the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony." It also states that they didn't love their life even to the death.

I recently watched a video from someone named Nick Jones on Youtube. I am not sure if I can mention names here but my point is that he discussed the Grammy awards and the Satanic ritual that apparentely CBS actually retracted a comment about being ready to worship when the entertainer (whose name I won't mention here) did his thing on stage. That being said; he pointed out what others seemed to miss; namely that ALL of the "Christian" award recipients sat through the blasphemous performance so that they could have their claim to fame later being recognized on stage. Imagine; for a moment if someone walked out; or better yet protested on stage. Such a sad demonstration of lukewarmness (at best) is characteristic of the church today and thus the enemy is "in your face" everywhere.

We can take some solace in the strides that the Pro lifers have made overturning Roe vs Wade. Many may not realize the person in that original Supreme Ct. OPINION (not really the "law of the land") became a believer and had a complete change of heart since supporting that legislation in the early 70's. We can see some result from generations of prayer.

There are many who continually petition the Lord for revival. I can only assume that your church IS teaching the Word and properly interpreting doctrine. I will further hope that you are teaching within the bounds of what authority is given to women in the church. That being said; women are needed to evangelize and be prayer warriors today in particular. From my experience; I have had to "scratch and claw" as close to obnoxiousness as possible in pursuit of more prayer; and in particular impromptu and necessary spontaneous prayers when needs arise. The other issue tends to be discussion on the Word in fellowship not trivial matters.

Agape

Jimbob:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after ----it's been 2000 years, that's not immediately after --- the tribulation of those days ---it's Christ's tribulation, leading up to his death on the cross, that he is speaking about ----shall the sun be darkened, Matthew 27:45 ---he is quoting Joel 2:31 and Revelation 6:12 a prophecy about Christ death on the cross ---and the moon (symbolising Christ) shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven ---- Revelation 12:4 ---and the powers of heaven shall be shaken ----all this description is a parable Matthew 13:34. Christ's words are most often HIDDEN in parables and symbols.

Matthew 24:30 Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven ---this is still symbolic and a parable ---heaven is symbolic of man, where GOD DWELLS, Colossians 2:27 ...Christ in you .... John 3:13 ... he which is in heaven ....

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will DO NOTHING, but he revealeth his secret to his servant the prophets.

Your raptured: one at a time

Isaiah 27:12 ....and ye shall be gathered ONE by ONE ....two in the field, one taken one left ....

God bless you, as you study and Christ reveals himself to you.

Ezekiel 17:3 ...and a GREAT EAGLE with great wings, long winged, and full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:

Revelation 12:15 And to the woman was GIVEN two wings of a GREAT EAGLE ....

Job 39:30 Doth the EAGLE mount up at THY COMMAND, and make her nest on high? She dwelleth and abideth on THE ROCK, upon the crag of the ROCK, and the strong place. From thence (the ROCK) she seeketh the prey (FLESH and BLOOD) and her eyes behold afar off. Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, THERE IS SHE.

1 Corinthians 15:50 ....flesh and blood cannot inherit the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ......

Revelation 19:17 .....and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (the children of the GREAT EAGLE) Come and gather yourselves to the supper of the Great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of great kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men ....and the FLESH OF ALL MEN ----FLESH and BLOOD CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God ----

Some WORDS OF GOD TO MEDIATE ON

Robert Harmon:

I going to tell you something you don't want to hear.

God uses your hardships to PRESS you into his kingdom.

God drives us into the WILDERNESS, we have to rely on him for our daily necessities, just like the children of Israel, he provides for ONLY TODAY, any more is eaten up by worms (symbolic).

Mark 1:2 And Immediately the spirit driveth him (the church, Revelation 21:22) into the wilderness ....

Revelation 12:14 And the woman (Christ's bride, the church) was given the two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the WILDERNESS, into her place, where she is nourished ..........

Psalms 37:25 .... I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor HIS SEED begging bread.

Philippians 1:29 For UNTO YOU it is GIVEN on the behalf of Christ, not only to BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to SUFFER for his sake.

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son (you are a joint heir with Christ), yet learned he (the joint heir) OBEDIENCE through SUFFERING.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but God PROMISES that HIS GRACE will be enough to get you TO THE END.

God Bless You!

James 4:7, Mark 3:15, Mark 6:13, Matthew 10:8, Mark 16:16,17,18,

Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:1-29,

Proverbs 14:5,25, John 8,

Revelation 12:19,

Hopefully these are helpful

Job 12:16, Job 12:9-22, Colossians 1:18-29,

Romans 14:12, 1Peter 4, Jude 1, Zechariah 3, 1Chronicles 21:1, Job 1, Job 2, Matthew 4:10, Mark 1:13, Luke 4, Luke 22, John 13,

Mark 4:15, Luke 13:16, Acts 5, notice Acts 4:32-37, continued into Acts 5, - Acts 5:13, 1Corinthians 7:5, 2Corinthians 11:13,14, 2Thessalonians 2:9, John 7:24, Romans 14:13,

Acts 26:18, Romans 16:20, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20, Psalms 98:9,

James 1:5,

Hopefully these give you wisdom

The Gospel: Pure and uncompromised

Matthew 12:34 states that "out of the abundance of the heart; the mouth speaketh." Isaiah 8:20 speaking about those who are false Prophets says "to the word and the testimony". They are said if not to speak the truth to have "no light of the dawn". Contrast this with Revelation 12:11 where the word of their testimony of the Tribulation martyrs indicates that they "loved not their lives unto the death." With today's churches having doctrines as skewed as they are we aren't safe to assume that occultic demonic "doctrines of demons" haven't already infected many congregations as 1 Timothy 4:1 warns. But for the remainder of this discussion I will assume that at least a respectable version of the scriptures is being preached in the churches I am examining here.

The Lord stated how "a little leaven ruins the whole loaf". ( Galatians 5:9 and other verses). No one is going to offer arsenic with a little inert ingredient to temper the flavor as an appetizer; but if being devious will put a little poison in something that is tasty. Satan won't come along saying that he is a deceiver; liar and murdurer and by the way wouldn't you like to join my cause? Admittedly there are a few who are sadistic enough to play the fiddle with the Devil as it were with some fantasy that they are so vile that they can command the Devil what to do; and there are some who despite knowing his nature think that Satan won't grind them into powder as was requested by Satan to Christ in the case of Peter.

The greatest danger; therefore lies when sin enters within the tent; the congregation of meeting and scripture is mixed in to instill false confidence in one's spiritual standing; or twisted to justify what eventually becomes a festering cancer after initially being toyed with by a few in idle conversation. There is also the ever present danger of trying to justify a doctrine; either true or false by turning literal scriptures to figurative.

Job 12:16, Revelation 12:10, James 1:5-7,

Wise men; Matthew 2,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study

Part 3

As promised here is my explanation. Our minds are developing through our 20s when we finally become "adults". We can thankfully be freed from ingrained sin; but there are lasting scars and weaknesses that we are vulnerable to. The enemy always falls short in his promises. There are few who gain great strides in wealth and status in this world from Satan's aid; but at best they are never totally fulfilled; and in the end there is always a price to pay. Once we begin to understand the control that Satan has over this whole world system and how we are; apart from Christ totally helpless and hellbound then we are prepared for the victory we can have through Christ when He calls and chooses us out of the world for His Name's sake. We can then give a "Word of testimony" ( Revelation 12:11). This comes to its ultimate fulfillment for the countless multitude massacred during the Great Tribulation. But it starts now; as one cannot help but share how they are set free from the bondage of sin; into the glorious kingdom of God. ( Romans 8:2).

With this background then; I will state that more specifically there are some who are able to more readily discern what is going on in the spiritual realm if they are gifted in discernment. They are called to minister in the Body as well as others with different giftings are to do the same thing. Being given this gift myself; I really don't have much of an idea HOW this can be done or where it is being practiced. The true Word of God isn't usually something people in this age want to hear; and that of course fits into any spiritual truths. There are truly those who you can see are under demonic influence or else are particularly blessed. As with anyone ministering to others we need to make sure that it is God speaking to us; and we need to repent quickly of sins so the enemy doesn't have legal grounds to affect our minds and deceive us. Our soul and spiritual entities interact together so we must view both

It's Israel, because the twelve stars represent 12 tribes. See Genesis 12:9: "And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.". The church does not have 12 stars, but SEVEN: "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." ( Revelation 1:20). And as for Mary, she does not represent all twelve stars, save in the fact that she's an Israelite.

Hey Sammi,

This is my understanding; Satan is our accuser, and he still accuses us before God. We see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 Satan came along with the sons of God/angels to present themselves to God. I understand that would be in heaven.

We are told to put on the whole armor of God in Ephesians 6:11-12 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The Greek word for high places is epouranios, heavenly realm.

In Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. The words "neither was their place found in heaven" tells me they still have access to heaven until they are cast out, down to earth.

Verse 10:12 shows Satan accused the brethren before our God day and night it was by the blood of Christ, they cast him out and he only has a short time. My understanding this starts the tribulation when Satan gives his seat, power, and authority to the beast Rev. 13.

So, my understanding is Satan still has access, I am sure it is limited but until they are cast out permanently that will be in the future. If you understand another way that is ok.

God bless,

RLW

Alex,

I'm going to shift your post a little and see if this interests you. Speaking of Revelation 12, specifically Revelation 12:6 & Revelation 12:14: The woman represents the 144,000 sealed saints ( Revelation 7:4), BOTH are protected for a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Only the saints are officially sealed. It is a continued allegory describing the saints vs the man of sin, end-times, etc.

The saints are so unbelievably important, yet underrated. They are the first fruits, set apart from the 5.5 billion day of the Lord survivors. The saints are the ONLY first resurrection participants, tasked with healing people, the earth and administering to Christ. The rest sleep till called at the second resurrection.

The saints are featured in 7 Chapters of Revelation, hidden in allegory, and referred to. People then add characters to the narrative and always miss that the sealed saints in Revelation 7:4, before the sixth trumpet, are the same saints in heaven at the seventh trumpet, Revelation 7:9-14. "They came out of the great tribulation". AND this occurs at the exact same time God calls up the two witnesses, Revelation 11:12. The saints and the two witnesses are one and the same!!! You will not see the saints without the witnesses from BOTH houses of Israel (Israel & Judah). Don't get the "two men" allegory wrong. Forget about Moses and Elijah or Enoch, that is a tired excuse for filling in the answer with anything that will suffice. After Solomon, Israel was split in two nations, hence, two men. The two candlesticks and two olive trees that stand before God are God's pride and joy, the whole house of Israel.

Okay. I understand what you mean but why did Christ Himself say this;

Matthew 5:19

In Revelation 12:17, we see that the dragon went to make war with the woman's seed (metaphorically Israel) and they keep The Commandments.

Furthermore, in 1 John 2:3-4, John states that only those who keep God's Commandments actually know Him. The Law is still in effect. If not, how do people differentiate between right and wrong ?

(To all that read repent and seek the lord )

Today in the world we have people calling themselves Christians but are not believers and this are people who go to church get 3 hours of worship (entertainment) and 1hour of which half is announcement the the other half is how God love you

when they get home they don't open their bible and any free time they have they spend wasting on tv and phone social medial, prayers are hard to make before the living God

and so they are living on Crumbs and depending on the pastors to help with bible the Living word )

So Saturn is not afraid of uncommitted Christian But one who does not love his life unto the End

That's what Jesus is saying In Matthew

Revelation 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

A quote from Mathew Henry - commentary on this website: "The church, under the emblem of a woman, the mother of believers, was seen by the apostle in vision, in heaven." ..... "A dragon is a known emblem of Satan, and his chief agents, or those who govern for him on earth.."