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It's a little like the upcoming U.S. elections: Christians supporting both sides will find rights & wrongs in all the parties, but a vote needs to be given to the one they judge best. The other option would be to vote for a minor party (e.g. a Christian/family-based one) which might conform more to one's beliefs & expectations, though realizing that that party will never bring forward the next President. Then the other option is not to vote at all, as all parties to some extent violate the requirements of God. So where does this leave the voter or, similarly, what does the believer do with Churches that don't conform to the Scriptures? If things appear hopeless, then abstain from attending Church until you're able to find another; just as one could do in the political arena. But never neglect your personal time of Bible reading & prayer.
Bible studies at a Home Group or in Church are important for the more intensive study of the Word but also for enjoying fellowship with one another. As well, one gets support, prayer & counsel when it may be easier to share intimately with those you're close to. Yet, without a mature leader overseeing the Study, these meetings can become breeding grounds for error, for which your Pastor fears. What other Fellowships are in your area/City? You may need to attend a few to decide.
It is okay to question any doctrine that is contrary to the Word of God. There is definitely a problem when we are just sitting and listening to someone who is teaching the Word of God, and are supposed to accept their interpretation of the Bible. In The Acts of the Apostles the Bereans searched the Scriptures for themselves to see what they were hearing was the truth. I believe this is how we are deceived by erroneous doctrine and false beliefs.
The Bible encourages us to study to show ourselves approved of God.... 2Timothy 2:15 I encourage you to seek the Holy Spirit as to what you should do and not depend on man. To be honest with you I am concerned, this is how cults are started. When the sheep cannot think for themselves and are indoctrinated to think a certain way.
Again, I say pray and trust the Good Shepherd to lead you. I do believe the correct way to handle this situation is to take whatever questions you have to the one who is teaching the Bible study, to avoid any discord. It is wise not to share your concerns with other members of the congregation that you are a part of.
I hope that this is a help and comfort to your soul.
Thank you for the scriptures. I only really go to church because I don't know any other Christians out of church, and I still need to be baptised. I feel like I need to have some time away from church, and just spend more time reading my bible and praying, but then my pastor reminds me about ( Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.) I really don't know what to do for the best. I keep asking myself why I keep going back because I know that God hates discord among the brethren, and I feel like I'm causing discord by questioning some of their doctrine. A few weeks ago after the service, I said to one of the women there that I didn't think that it was a good idea for them all to put the pastors on pedestals, and that I thought that the bible study should be in a group when we read passages from the bible and then we discuss them like we did at my old church, but at this church we just listen to one of the pastors preach and then tell us his opinion and expected just to except it without questioning it. As you can imagine, this didn't go down to well and everyone just looked at me. I just turned to them and said look at everyone earwigging and then everyone cleared the room and the younger pastor said that them kind of bible studies cause error and discord and that's why they do it that way. I'm not convinced though. Me and one of the other women that started a few weeks ago have decided we should look for another church once the Covid 19 pandemic settles down and the other churches open again.
Kind Regards
Claire
thank you
Thank you so much for your testimony and your words of encouragement.
God bless you and your family
Kind Regards
Claire
And to your point: "where I am spiritually, without sin in the present or future, as after salvation I have not sinned". If I could develop that: if 'sinlessness' is indeed your present joyful position, then would you understand if I could describe your spiritual state as that of Adam & Eve before their fall? They were pure, sinless; had they remained that way, they would not have faced spiritual & physical death, as both these are products of sin. They would have lived on eternally in an incorrupt world.
You are now sinless: would physical death finally overcome you, as it would for us? Of course, the Rapture (though I understand the a-millennial position of the Church of God) might prevent death from happening to you, but in biblical reality, you should as a sinless man never experience death. For the rest of us, death is a sure thing as in spite of our new justified position in Christ, our past sins that have corrupted our nature & our bodies guarantee our physical death.
If you should say that you would still experience physical death because of the past corruption of the body, then that only shows the Truth of Rom 6:23, that the sin nature is still evident (maybe, not reigning in you), & the end of it must be a physical death; the spiritual death being averted through Jesus Christ. So with the removal of sin & the sin nature, there must of necessity be no further corruption of the physical body leading to physical death.
David, I see that we are considering the same precious Scriptures yet with a different understanding. Of course, this is not the medium one can use for a detailed exposition of the Scriptures, so we're limited to a proper development of what was written & how we are required to understand it. Suffice to say, in respect of this matter, I see Romans 6:1, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" as the thrust of Paul's discourse. There were those in the Church who had a warped view of God's Grace (for past, present & future sins). Since God's Grace abounded towards them ( Rom 5:20, 21), then "why worry about sin, as all sin gets forgiven under God's abounding Grace". Paul had to refute that with Rom 6:1 & following verses. It is from here we disagree, as you understand that our "body of sin destroyed" (6:6), "freed from sin" (6:7), "dead to sin (6:11), etc. are all referring to both past, present & future removal of the sins & the old nature. I understand Paul was referring to the Law that only pointed to the fact of our sin, & that Law was now removed/cancelled by virtue of Jesus' death, thus enabling the believer to stand before God as righteous & justified based on the Perfect Sacrifice & no longer to be a servant of sin (which is of the Law).
Then in the Rom 7 passage which you believe speaks of Paul's 'previous life' before God, which has merit, except as said before, in verse 25, after all his introspection & abhorrence of the old nature, he exclaims (now, in the present), that through Jesus Christ he serves God (the new Law), but in the flesh (the old nature) he serves the Law of sin (the old Law). For us to include this verse 25 with the preceding verses as Paul's witness of the old life makes this verse meaningless if we're to keep the same 'past tense'.
40And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
jesus only died once so u can't hang him up twice on the cross. Just stay trusting in him try fasting for the word in the spirit of understanding. Stop trusting in man... u will learn more with christ alone. loney walk on the narrow road. I will pray for u my sister in christ and for your famlily JAH Favour U With Blessing's.
See Hebrews ch 7 and 9 where it is discussing the old testament versus the new testament. Not so much 2 Bible segments but the old animal sacrifice vs. the new provided by Jesus' death on the cross. The old could not save from sin as they had to sacrifice for sin yearly. Jesus paid the sin sacrifice so we will be free from sin through Him.
He. 7:22 "By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." How was/is it better? His blood atones for sin and breaks its power so we do not continue in sin. Would Jesus command man Jn. 5:14 or woman Jn. 8:11 to go and sin no more if we could not do so? With Jesus, we can be saved from sin, His blood sacrifice on the cross gave us power over sin to cease the sinning that corrupts the heart and defiles the soul.
A part of my testimony is I am saved from sin. I had to be saved from sins I used to do. I have done so through repentance so that I am justified or saved. This took care of sins I did in my past. I also needed my heart cleansed from the inherited sin from Adam. This is sanctification. It is only given to those already free from sin via salvation. It includes having God remove the carnal nature from the heart and filling that space with His Holy Spirit. It doesn't make one speak in tongues as Pentecostals do. Salvation and sanctification are 2 fully separate steps at an altar in the Church building. See 2 Co. 5:17 my old sinful self is dead and I am a new person in Christ after salvation, even more so after sanctification.
I can re-address later as needed. And I'm sure I didn't cover all questions. I will revisit in near future as I do want you to see where I am spiritually, without sin in the present or future, as after salvation I have not sinned. I do not claim I never sinned, just that I do not sin after God saved me. It is not me or my power, it is God's that gives grace and power to not do what I used to.
Referring back to Paul's testimony in Romans 7, admitted it does seem odd or confusing, but I recall that he wrote it in the historical present tense. He could not have had that wretched man type of experience and tell us in 1 Co. 15:34 "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." Take Ro 6th and 8th Chapters along with the 7th. Ro. 6:1 asks if we should continue in sin that grace may abound, answer in vs. 2 God forbid or No we cannot continue sin under His saving grace. Romans Ch 8 begins with Paul stating no condemnation to them that are in Christ. A saved from sin experience matches no condemnation, a sinful life cannot.
Romans 5:12 is just part of the thought Paul was conveying. Another part further on, vs. 18, 19 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." The first man is Adam in the beginning. His sin caused all mankind to be born with a sin nature in their heart. The second man mentioned is Jesus, His righteousness is the free gift of justification to those that ask for it through repentance. Vs. 19 tells us that all were made sinners by Adam's transgression, but if we get saved in Jesus, we will be made righteous. Being righteous cannot be mixed with a sinful life.
Think on this, why did Jesus come to Earth as He did? He did so to leave us the example to live by, and to sacrifice His own life on the cross, to be our sacrificial Lamb required to save us from sin. Think OT animal sacrifices. They did this yearly to atone for sins committed. It didn't make them free from sin, but only appeased God's law. Jesus, as The Lamb, a sacrifice died to atone for our sin, to save us from..
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace,
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the FIREY DARTS of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Ask the Lord to make you an instrument of Peace in your family. Show the kindness of Jesus when you see your son.
I went through something similar as you. I lost all my sinful friends because I was born again. I got lonely and asked Jesus to bring me some new friends. He answered that prayer! :) Come here often, study scripture Till every time you get bumped...out flows a scripture. Speak all the blessings over your kin. This is when we learn patience, long suffering, temperance; which are hard to endure but well worth going through.
Locust are in the Bible. It's insect and also a pestilence. If you Google "locust swarms in Africa", You will see news reports of swarms of locusts decimating the little food that they are able to grow. They desperately need help in feeding many starving people. They've pleaded with the world community to fund and assist in spraying the few crops they still have. Look at the comparison of a locust to a grasshopper. They just look evil.