Discuss Revelation 12 Page 33

Page 1.

Thanks again David for taking the time to answer me & sharing your testimony. That does answer my question except for my assumption from your earlier comments, that you are 'sin free & as such when temptation comes to you, sin cannot take hold'. However, you've clarified that part: "Temptation still exists, but the power of God gives me the ability to say no and not yield to it. However, if I'd ever decide to yield to temptation, I could if I chose to but at the cost of salvation".

So you've now raised a couple of questions in my mind. All of us who are born again & indwelt by the Spirit have the power to say "No" to sin's prodding at our heart's door, but in reality no one, so far whom I've met, has been able to testify that no sin has been able to get through to them. But you say that you remain sinless enjoying perpetual victory. So my questions:

a. an elementary question first off: is the type of sin that you refer to, the same as is generally understood? By this I mean, sin incorporates much more than what most regard as evil (viz. murder, theft, lying, adultery, etc.). The sins of worry, pride, selfishness, lack of (agape) love or forgiveness, anger, frustration, gossip, coveting, unhealthy thoughts, gluttony, hypocrisy, jealousy, egotistic, self-righteous, hidden sins of the mind, & many more are examples. Praise God if you are able to shun all such sins as well.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glo

Hi Adam,

Firstly, Sorry for the late reply, I thought that I had already replied to you, but it doesn't seem to appear here for some reason, so I'm not sure if you received it. Thank you for your advice on me being baptised, and for all your words of encouragement and I will study the scriptures that you have suggested. I have been on this site many times since I started on my Christian walk, but only recently noticed the prayer request section a few days ago. Everyone on here has been so encouraging and helpful. I just wish that I would have noticed it sooner, as it could have saved me a lot anxiety.

God bless you & your family

Kind Regards

Claire

please keep me in your prayers

Hi Richard & Georgia,

Thank you for all your words of encouragement and your prayers. I will study the scriptures that you suggested and pray for guidance.

God bless you and family.

Kind Regards

Claire

Hi Steve,

Firstly, Sorry for the late reply, I didn't see your message in my emails for some reason. Just seen it now in the thread.

Thank you for your words of encouragement and all your blessings (From God). I will study the specific scriptures you suggested and also pray for God's guidance too.

God bless you and your family.

Kind Regards

Claire

Hi Earl,

Thank you for all your words of encouragement.

God bless you and your family.

Kind Regards

Claire

Peace,WE all need help! let's help and heal with love...GOD says

don't just live...LOVE. a fly lives.

Daniel,

This is referred to as backsliding. In this situation, assuming God is dealing with the individual, the person would need to repent of their sin and be saved again.

Hi Chris,

Let's see if this answers what you want to know. I used to sin. I had not believed much about God for some time back then actually. I did when I was very young, but in my teens I lost concern for what God thought. In my 20's I was already hooked on cigarettes and alcohol. There's others as well in the past, but let this suffice. I heard of the Church of God in Manassas, VA. It was mentioned to me by an Aunt that goes there. I went to a camp meeting there in July 1994 when I was 25 years old. During the evening service 7/4/1994, I went to the altar after that service, and I prayed a prayer of repentance with the pastor from my local congregation. I repented of my sins and was then saved from sin. Repentance delivered me from the sins of the past only. Later, when I understood it's meaning, I was sanctified. This took care of my carnal heart by asking God to remove the carnal nature and to be filled with His Spirit. By the way, I am not pentecostal, I do not speak in tongues to show I am saved or sanctified. A holy life should be evidence enough.

Temptation still exists, but the power of God gives me the ability to say no and not yield to it. However, if I'd ever decide to yield to temptation, I could if I chose to but at the cost of salvation. If I yield to any temptation, I will lose salvation and sanctification.

I don't know if this answers your question. But in all seriousness, salvation and sanctification are pretty simple to understand. If you do things God's way, it is simple. Again, I used to sin until salvation. Now I don't after salvation. Temptation does exist, but temptation alone is not sin. Yielding to it is sin.

Salvation alone takes care of sins from the flesh. Sanctification takes care of the heart. Both together make one where God designed us to be from the beginning, saved and sanctified eliminates sin committed and sin inherited.

Hope it makes sense because that is my testimony. I used to serve Satan as master. Now I serve God alone.

PLEASE help me with my anxiety depression and worries. Ireally need help and can't seem to make the right decisions in life. please help me understand God's word more and more each day. Let me walk in faith through every decision and thought that I make. Let me put all my trust in G od and never lose sight of him. Thank you for your prayers.

Please continue prayers for my grandma and grandpa. also for me . thank you and god bless

Page 2.

If that is so, then it would mean that our views of Christ's Sacrifice are in conflict, rather than us being overwhelmed by your admission of being sinless. From the Scriptures, I understand that Jesus' Sacrifice was wholly a legal matter to meet the Father's Holy Demands. For if Christ had not come to give His Life, we would have no means to successfully hope for forgiveness & acceptance to God. Whereas I see the Cross as a judicial issue where God's Judgement against our sins were brought to bear upon Jesus, which you might view as also a providing a purifying, sanctifying, removal action of our sins past, present & future. And this I see as not a specific work of the Cross but the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in those who've responded to the Cross.

But then again, I could be entirely wrong in your position & understanding, so I'll leave this option open without prejudice to you in any way.

Page 1.

David. Others have also written in line with my understanding of the Scriptures & the realities of living in a sinful world in a body with two natures: one of the old nature & the other of the Spirit of God. To the old nature, Satan makes his appeal & we may stumble, may sin & we confess it, unlike to the new nature that is of God & cannot give into sin ( 1 John 3:9). To this existing old nature you disagree of course.

Would I then be correct in understanding that your view of the Blood of Christ & its eternal efficacy to keep you always clean (i.e. to be without sin), that at any intrusion of temptation & sin into your life, that Blood immediately cleanses you, keeping you spotless? Is this therefore what you are referring to: "that you are without sin" that even before a confession, the Blood of Christ has already taken effect, hence no need for any alarm or a confession? So, temptation can come to you, but at its birth as sin, you are cleansed & thus remaining sinless. Therefore, you would have nothing to do, as the Blood's efficacy is constantly at work in your life to keep you spotless. I'm sorry that I'm trying to dig deep here, since you have rebuffed others on other grounds, when we might not actually be coming to grips with your understanding of the Cross.

Hi Nathan,

I'm not sure of what you're asking, but if you want to link doubt to sin, they are not the same.

Flesh versus spirit: they are in fact different. Flesh is your body of bones and tissue. Spirit is the inner man. Both flesh and spirit must be in right standing with God.

See 2 Cor. 7:1 "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." No do not think that man can cleanse his sins, but his choices can lead to places where doing sin is more likely, or more temptation do sin is present. I do not go to a bar, as the alcohol drinking atmosphere is not a place one saved from drinking needs to be. I do not hang out at the smoker corner or the adult book store either.

I'm sorry you don't like me making judgement calls on others, but if they say they still sin, by the truth in the Bible, I can state they are not right with God. And really it's not me making that judgement decision, I read what the Bible says and apply what it says.

Others want to go back to 1 Jn. 1:8, saying I am false in saying I don't sin is showing where I am wrong. Actually I did sin at one time, but the time of salvation is where sin stopped.

See again 1 Jn. 3:8, 9

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Those that sin are of the devil and those that are saved from sin are of God. Salvation is not a coat to be put on when you want to be spiritual and taken off when you want to indulge in sin. Either you are saved or you are in sin. You cannot be both at the same time.

Like it or not, but those that commit sin upon death will be judged as sinners and are not going to Heaven.

Hi Bronson. I pray that our Father lead you to make decisions that will not be offensive to Him. I also pray that you will pray for understanding of His Word, to make a full study of His Word and begin to take action on those things that you believe to be true about His Word.

Hi Richard,

There is definitely still right and wrong. Right or wrong choices exist everywhere, as there is still good and bad. Sin still exists as does fruit, which can be either good or bad itself.

What may help is for example on the fruit aspect, one either produces good or bad, but not both at the same time. Salvation from sin produces a change in what fruit is produced, and in 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." The old sinful man and his ways are passed away when you repent and are saved from sin.

This salvation I speak of, and along with sanctification that addresses inherited sin in the heart, together does bring man to the same spiritual standard that God made man from the beginning. We are made in God's image, this is the spiritual man. We only have this after we are free from sin via repentance, salvation, and sanctification.

Clarie, may the Spirit grace you with his understanding. The Spirit of truth is all you need to overcome. Quit saying I try, you will always fall. Put you trust in him, believe what he says, he never fails. Ezekiel 36:25-28 Then will I sprinkle clean water (Baptism of Spirit) upon you, and you shall be clean (believe): from all your filthiness, and from all you idols (works of you hands, like saying I try) will I cleanse you. (vs) 26 A new heart (mind, the way the Spirit thinks) also will I give you, and a new spirit (of truth) will I put within you: and I will take away the stony (hardened) heart (carnal mind) out of your flesh, and will give you a heart (mind) of flesh (truth, Spirit). (vs) 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE (Spirit at work,not you saying, I try) you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgements, and do them. Jesus told his disciples that the Son Of Man came to be a servant, isn't it great that he does eveything for us and we can cease from our works and come into his rest. May the Spirit grace you with truth.

It appears you are being tossed to a fro by the doctrines of men (twisting Scripture), rather the doctrine of Christ. We would have to spend hours discussing and reading the Scriptures to straighten out some of what is concerning you. Not enough space. First, if you can speak out-loud that Jesus Christ is Lord! And, Jesus Christ is your Saviour! And, that you have Faith and Belief in Him. In His Death and Resurrection - then you are saved. I am paraphrasing Romans Chapter 10:9. Your walk is now with Him, and your perfection is in Him. You (and all the rest of use) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And, we will continue that battle for our entire earthly existence. It is Him who saves, and not a single good thing you do - saves you, as He has completed and finished it all. For His good pleasure. Take a deep breath and pray to God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, to guide you through these times in the wilderness. You are not lost, you are Saved, and just searching for a deeper truth in Him. Begin to read all of Paul's writings. Remember to read whom these letters are writing to: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, Philemon, Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy. As with all the Scripture it is written FOR us, but not all is written TO us. Some writings are specifically to Moses, the Israelites, and others in the Scripture. We can certainly learn from them about God, who He is, and how He works, but they are not TO us, they are FOR our edification. It is no different as an example. You have some nice folks, Rich and Georgia (May God Bless You Both), who replied to your post. Now, my post is written FOR everyone to read (and, Rich and Georgia might read this post and it is edifying to them), but it was written specifically to My Sister in Christ - Claire. Not enough space May God Love You and Bless You and Strengthen You throughout all of your days. Rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Claire, the Spirit grace you with his understanding, two verses you quoted go along way in understanding baptism. Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. If you are baptized into natural water you put on natural water. If you are baptized into living water, (which is Christ) you have put on life (which is Christ). I peter 1:23 Being born again not of corruptible (flesh) seed, but of incorruptible (Spirit) seed, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth (in you) for ever. When you spend you time in the written word the written word becomes the truth of life (Spirit). You are baptized into the Word, which is Christ.

Thank you for your reply, your advice, and your prayers Rebecca.

May God bless you and your family :)

Thank you for your reply and your advice Victoria.

May God bless you and your family :)

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your reply, and yes, I have confessed as many of my sins as I can remember to Jesus and accepted him into your heart. I also keep telling are newest church member 1st John 1 vs 9 if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I have managed to overcome some of my sins (By the grace of God !!!) like it says in James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. I am glad that you say that it is normal for me to still struggle with some of my sins, and that the gifts of the holy spirit are for everyone, because I strongly believe this too.

I pray morning & night most days, & I also read specific scriptures on here or read my Bible most days too or listen to the King James version online. I try not to put myself in situations where I am tempted, I have cut ties with all of my non Christian friends, but it's hard sometimes because I see my mum and my daughter 7 days a week and I feel like I am constantly tripping myself up by talking to them about the the lack of reassurance that I feel like I get from people at church. I know this is wrong and I feel like a hypocrite, but I'm struggling to break the habit. As for tongues, the pastor from my old church spoke in tongues now and then when he prayed for me about my depression and anxiety (which is what lead me to church in the first place), and by the grace of God, I eventually overcome it. A few people there had the gift of tongues, but I only ever witnessed my pastor doing it. I do feel like I have discernment about people at church, because they celebrate Christmas and other holidays which are NOT biblical and it says in Jeremiah chapter 10 Learn not the way of the heathen.

Thank you for you and your wife praying for me. God bless you and your family. :)

Hi David. Thank you for your previous input. While I think you make some strong and valid points, I am not sure I have a good understanding of your position on this so I hope you don't mind if I ask a question:

If at some point in the future a Christian professing person who has repented from his past sins were to fall short and knowingly commit another sin, what would you suggest are his current options/possibilities for gaining acceptance by God?

Thanks in advance.

Claire You are putting to many things on what you must do, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved Acts 16 vs 31. Believe and be saved, seek first his kingdom and all these things will be given to you. Matt 6 vs 33 seek him first then all other things will be given to you, your going through a lot right now it seems, come to me all who labor are heavy laden and I will give you rest Matt 11 vs 28 -30. Seek him first rest in him. We are and will continue to pray for you Clarie

Respectfully

Rich and Georgia

David,

Have you ever had one single moment of doubt? Is there no distinction in your mind between the flesh and the spirit? Are you so sure it's wise to be casting aspersions on another's profession of faith just because they are confessing their faults to you?

In Christ,

Nathan Samuel

I changed my mind and will address questions here one last time, Adam. Why didn't I address other verses you mentioned? Why go deeper into scripture when we have yet to resolve the simple truth that salvation frees from sin. We are on opposite sides of a basic truth that you must be saved from sin or you are still lost. You would not see the truth in what the scriptures say unless you are saved from sin. It all hinges on this. You claim salvation in sin and I claim you can be saved FROM sin.

You want an answer on supposed contradictions on my salvation from sin yet I had to repent. I did sin up until age 25, which is how old I was when I got saved from sin through repentance of sins I had done in the past. That's what is required, to repent to be saved. I never said I had never sinned, just that after salvation I sin no longer. So no contradiction there.

As for believing in Jesus, even devils believe He exists. But you are not obeying Him if you will not get saved from sin. Salvation requires repentance where one aspect of it is sorrow for sins committed and a willingness to forsake and never do the sins again.

Parting thought: think of the attitude of the Jews that hated Jesus enough to falsify statements to sentence Him to death on the cross. They hated Jesus and His proclaiming we had to be free from sin. These religious leaders hated Christ and His authority, His messages of truth, and the threat He was to their false teachings, their power, and their money from profit in handling the church as a business. These Jewish leaders loved power over lost souls and embraced false teachings. They hated Him enough to kill Him. Jews and in fact nobody is automatically saved from sin. Unless you repent of your sin, and stop sinning, you die lost.

Hi Rich,

My pastor said that the most important thing to bear in mind is that scripture interprets scripture and that the context is important too. He said that the scripture's that I showed him are often misunderstood, and don't mean what I think they mean. He said that salvation cannot be lost, just like God's promises cannot be broken. I think the fact that I have not been baptised yet and that I am the only Christian in my family is also adding to my uncertainty. It says in

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I think the fact that nobody from my church believes that that the spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues are for all Christians, and that those gifts were only for Jesus disciples. The church that I went to previously had a number of people that speak in tongues, so because I disagree with that, I just feel unsure if he is wrong about these scriptures too.

Also, I am sure that I have read that we can no longer sin once we have been saved, yet I have used curse words a few times and taken the name of the Lord are God in vain since becoming a Christian mostly in my head, but also out loud on a few occasions.

So how is then that David asks God to cleans him from secret sins Link

And what does it mean that those that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin Link

And of course 1 John 1:8 Link

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

This issue of sanctification is not so neat and to me for one to speak of ceasing from sin without delving into the aforementioned and the verses that speak to the security of the believer throughout John's Gospel do risk a myopic approach to the whole thing.

jhmo

Hello David,

Just a couple simple questions to see what you're believing:

Do you believe there is no such thing as right and wrong, good and bad, or sins and fruits anymore? Which twists everything. As satan loves to do.

Or do you you believe you are perfect now, in the eyes of God, as Jesus Christ was?

Thank you.