Discuss Revelation 12 Page 9

Who are the Woman and Child in Revelation 12? I think the Child could represent Israel, but not sure who the Woman represents.

For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I think that pretty much gives everybody a chance to have sins forgiven and be grafted into the family of God, don't you?

Hallelujah! Mishael

Hello JMCL,

Just to give a short reply to your question. I think what is more important to perceive is "do I love God"? God's mercy, compassion, lovingkindness, forgiveness is endless. For God is love and life. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and want's people to turn, repent, from their wickedness/sin and live by His Will which is Holy and pure. As said "Return to me and I will return unto you saith the Lord of hosts".

As even satan was one of His angels who turned against Him, along with many others, who are now His main adversaries.

God hates sin and those who live in willful sin are not close to Him. Although, God knows everything and that one who is a sinner today may be a saint tomorrow. The Lord searches hearts. Though many shall die in there sin and not acknowledge God or Jesus Christ.

He loves His Creation so much that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for us. By His grace and love for us.

Keep reading the Holy Bible. Give your life to Jesus Christ if you have not already done so. Pray from the heart. The truth shall set you free.

God Bless.

the dragon persecuted the women and thats is not the literal church of today that church is israel the african american trans atlantic slave trade and spanish inqusition is the persecution of the women its time to come to the truth

Hello Fellow believer, Christian Greetings. I have faith that you also carry a testimony of Faith by Jesus Christ.

That we can be found faithful in the last day.

Carleton

What are pratical ways to encourage early teens to read the bible?

Hello Andrew, The reformation brought forth some men in the power of God that are well remembered. However these men did not reform anything. The faith once delivered was already present and always has been since the Apostles built on the rock of Jesus Christ the Son of God. It is on this foundation of faith that I was baptized into Church of God by water after proving my spirit and hearing my testimony amongst others who are on the same foundation as the Apostles and true Church throughout the ages which remains complete to this very day. I do not think you know her, because you have looked elsewhere and found nothing and created a new story that is outside of outside of the bride of Christ, His Church which is Holy. I am properly baptized into this Holy place. This home is a refuge for my soul and an accountability of my life, a place to raise my family, a place to see children surrender their lives to Jesus Christ as God calls them to repentance in His time. I am free, free indeed! Outside of our time together in this race where we have met and I am happy to have done so, I am not anchored to your understanding or your hope or your instructions in the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we are not brethren and I run this race in the peace of the Gospel happily. I doubt you can provide any continuity throughout the ages of your Church and people that interpret the scriptures as you do as Chris tried to show you.

Carleton

Read the bible scriptures on healing.

Amen Carleton, that is beautiful and powerful!

Well, praise the Lord Carleton!

I believe you were born again when you poured out your heart to the Lord in that produce truck.

However, (& not to offend you or cause contention, but because I care for your soul as a priest of Jesus Christ), concerning your receiving of the Holy Ghost; where in the book of Acts does it say anyone received the Holy Ghost & just felt peace?

Likewise, concerning your baptism, where in Acts did anyone have water poured over them (this is what the roman catholic church does to infants before they even know theyre sinners in need of a Savior)?

The Greek word used for baptism (& mind you I'm no greek or hebrew scholar for we have the word of God translated perfectly in English with the KJV, but it does help sometimes to get a better understanding) is 'bautizo' & means full immersion. This is how we are buried with Christ in baptism - Col. 2:12.

I imagine the man who poured water over you said the words, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost" but HE NEVER SAID THE ONE NAME GIVEN AMONG MEN UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED ( Acts 4:12): Jesus Christ!

You see as an example: I can write you a check and sign it as son, brother, or cousin; those are all titles that represent who I am, but the bank won't remit the funds to you unless I put my name on it.

The name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is: Jesus Christ (I can provide scripture for this if you want). Peter & all the disciples understood this ( Acts 2:38, 22:16).

By no means am I denying the experience you had with the Lord in that produce truck. But I am denying the lies that men have told you concerning baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost that didn't come from the bible."Yea, let God be true and every man a liar" - Rom. 3:4

Do you know the bible says that baptism saves us? 1 Pet. 3:21

I offer this to you in the name of Jesus Christ & I pray that you can receive it.

Sincerely,

Andrew

P.S.I'm still ready to share my testimony

Greetings Andrew and any who will read this post.

The very short story: I felt led outside of my soul to seek instruction and Bible understanding that the answer to my forlorn soul was faith in Jesus Christ and that I must repent of my sins. Resistance to this took years. One day, in the mid-night hours in the back of a dirty produce truck, I poured out my sin before Jesus, anything that came to mind. I became willing in my heart with the help of Jesus to turn away from my worldly life and sell my field and buy his field. Jesus gave me that field in that hour. I was bought for a price and I had sold what I had. How did I know this transaction of love was complete? The Holy Ghost. Not only did I have immediate peace with God by His Son and knowledge of it by His Holy Ghost but I also had power to over come willing sins. Even words that I spoke. I also had an immediate love for my fellow man wanting the same for them. I was willing to reconcile with any man regarding my past, so I felt that I also could say that I have peace with God and man that same hour. The desire to meet and know brethren in this same Spirit grew in me. In due time I entered the Visible Church by water baptism (pouring). Regarding Baptism by the Holy Spirit which seems to ne your interest mostly Andrew it happened when the Holy Spirit entered me. Perhaps there were words I remember not. Today as I mentioned I understand the groaning within me to live outside of this flesh and world that is not my home. This is the short story. Mishael, in whom I love knows a longer version of the same.

Carleton

Greetings Carleton,

I believe your comment was removed because it was off topic, and distracting to the initial question Carla had asked.

I, however, beared with you and answered your questions regarding my foundation (the Rock & Chief Cornerstone Jesus Christ), & His Church built on that Rock and who what where when and why she is.

It appears you no longer have any comments or questions on that subject.

It also appears you wish to avoid the questions I asked you concerning; a. How you were saved, & b. Unto what you were baptized? (You don't have to go into detail)

i have no problem answering those questions and sharing a condensed version of my testimony (it's a long story).

But to respect the order & grace (if there be any) of the conversation, would you mind answering my questions first?

I'm not here to bring contention or strife or debate with anyone (as my Master Jesus never debated, only said, he that hath an ear let him hear), but rather because, though I don't know you, I kove you with the love of Christ and care for your soul not wanting any to perish.

I pray that you can receive this, in Jesus name.

Greetings,

satan was/is an angel who (because of pride) was cast out of his place as the worship leader of heaven. He still travels to and fro on the earth and even up to heaven to accuse the brethren before God. He is referred to as the dragon/that old serpent in the revelation. During the time of Jacob's trouble/ the Great Tribulation, he will be cast out permanently from heaven ( Luke 10:18/ Revelation 12:9). He is also spoken of in Ezekiel as the King of Tyre.

Lucifer, however, is (will be) a man; the antichrist, in whom satan will dwell. There are passages in Isaiah 14 about him, as well as in Ezekiel; where he is spoken of as the prince of Tyre. Also, in the Revelation, he is referred to as the beast.

Hope this helps as you search the scriptures.

*"true Church of God"

Hello Andrew, it appears that my comment was removed. Likely for asking for your experience first. Must be part of the rules, I am uncertain. My thoughts are not to put too much into tongues as a sign of conversion rather than a new life where there are groanings that come from within reaching out for even clearer communication with the Holy Ghost. I also wonder as you have mentioned the Harlot several times as what is not the Church, why not describe the true Xhurxh of God. I am sorry if my original post was deemed too harsh or sarcastic or personal. The more we volunteer our experiences the more we can understand each other. If you like, please share more in this way.

Carleton

Greetings in Jesus' name, Carleton.

The bible says:

1 Corinthians 3:11

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

So, my foundation is not a "she" or "her", but a He; verily the Lord Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:7-9

King James Version

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

And upon that rock, Jesus built His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Church is not the rock.

She is built on that rock, which is Christ.

Who is she you ask?

1 Peter 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Amen.

She's a worldwide body of disciples baptized in Jesus' name (not titles F, S, & HG) for the remission of their sins (& not as an "outward showing of an inward change" or "public profession of faith"),

& filled with His Holy Spirit walking in his commandments continuing in His word ( John 8:31-32).

Where is she you ask?

John 11:52

And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

She's scattered abroad throughout all the world,& doesn't exist in buildings built by men with fancy titles & big screens and p.a. systems, but in eachother's houses & in the streets confessing Christ to others (Roman's 10:9) for this is how Christians SHALL be saved.

Praise the Lord!

Now let me ask you;

How were you saved & unto what were you baptized?

P.S.

And yes:

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This verse is speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Greetings in Jesus' name, Carla.

Great question!

Revelation 12:1

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Genesis 37:9-10

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

From this passage of Scripture speaking of Joseph and the dream he was given; we can see that the woman with the 12 stars and the sun and the moon referenced in Revelation 12 is Israel.

The dragon is obviously that old serpent our defeated foe (satan).

And the water represents nations or people that will attack Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble/the great tribulation, but she will flee to the valley in the mountains prophesied in Zechariah 14 (I believe) that God hath prepared for her.

Later John writes about MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS (the roman catholic church) that sits upon many waters. We can see that the roman emperor (the pope) has his "churches" all over the world in just about every nation (many waters).

This is why Christians must come out from her and her "protestant" daughters to be saved ( Rev 18:4).

I hope this helps you Carla.

Be well in Jesus' name,

Andrew

Revelations Chapter 12 1:17, what Child Is this about Jesus? If so, why does Revelations state that A Woman was about to give birth and the dragon let a flood out of it's mouth to wash the woman away. The earth took the flood away. I am confused, are they refering to Jesus?

Thank You,

God Bless,

Carla Zgabay

Mark 13 is the events that will take place at the end times and 2 Thessalonians 2, Matthew 24, Luke 21. Also when you read of the appearance of the false messiah standing up in Jerusalem claiming he is God return and has supernatural powers and the world chases after him you might want to read Revelation 12:7,8,9,10 and catch that Satan is kicked to earth to deceive the world. On the first seal in Revelation check crown and bow you'll see they are fake and the bow is toxin, poison so if you hear the Lord is here or we heard the Lord is there don't go because at the 7th Trump when Our Christ returns it will be with fire and hail stones and for those who followed antichrist and didn't read the truth and listen to men they will get what they have coming to them. Revelation tells us that the time was cut to 5 months for the elect sake so when they are delivered up listen to them because it's God speaking through the elect. Store food, pay bills for about 3 months when you see the events of the 6th trump.

It is time to look for only one thing and thus righteousness. May God help me to attain righteousness.The devil knows he have a limited time and having great wrath to decieve the inhabitants of the earth.

Steve, May the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

John 9 1-3 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

(vs 2) And his disciples ask him, saying, Master, WHO DID SIN, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

(vs 3) Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, or his parents: but that THE WORKS OF GOD should be manifest in him.

None of us can completely understand why God does certain thing, but we can believe through the working of the Holy Spirit and stand on his word that the outcome will both bring us into the light and glorify God in the process.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day (of the Lord)(CHRIST IN YOU) dawn, and the day star arise in you hearts.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 22:16 ...... I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together; and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the holy Spirit) saying in heaven (you, where Christ

dwells), Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of God (Christ in you), and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER of our brethern is cast down, which ACCUSED them (you) before our God day and night (they have no rest).

COME INTO MY REST AND CEASE FROM YOUR WORKS (your way of thinking)

May the SPIRIT grace you with ears to hear and eyes to see.

REVELATION 13:17

May the Spirit grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.

Revelation 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ .....things that must shortly come to pass.....and signified....

(vs 3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things that are written therein: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Most will study Revelation and never apply these verses to the truth of the rest of Revelation.

Signified: the nouns are symbols of something other than there definition as denoted by a dictionary. There definition can be found hidden in other scriptures in God's word.

Example:

Luke 8:5 ....and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this...

Luke 8:12 ....then cometh the DEVIL (fowls of the air)

Luke 13:19 (A PARABLE) It (kingdom of heaven) is like a grain of mustard seed....and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches (where the fowls of the air dwell)....WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.

Revelation 2:13 ....Even where Satan's seat is...

Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT DEVIL'S by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God (Christ in you) is come in unto you.

Revelation 12:7-10 And there was war in heaven (where is the kingdom of heaven; CHRIST IN YOU, heaven is YOU): Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

(vs 8) And prevailed not, neither was THEIR place found anymore in heaven (in you)

(vs 9) And the great dragon was cast out......

(vs 10) and I heard a loud voice (Holy Spirit) saying, Now is salvation... strength..and the kingdom....

Must shortly come to pass: the revealing of Jesus Christ, he is the kingdom of heaven: CHRIST IN YOU has to happen in before your physical body dies.

The time is at hand: If you were alive 1800 years ago these words were would have declared the kingdom of heaven to you just as they are declaring the kingdom of heaven to the person reading them at the instance.

Hello Earl,

Indeed we are taught by God's Spirit. Thanks for sharing John 2:27. One word that stands out to me in that verse is the word abideth/abide, MENO in the original language. MENO is a word that denotes permanency, God's Spirit permanently abiding in us and us in Him. I agree that He is our teacher.

You and I have a different understanding of Revelation 12:14 on who this woman is and the other symbolisms in that verse, but that's okay. I know there are different theories as to who this woman is. One group says this woman is Mary Baker Eddy, which I totally disagree with!

Jesse, may the Spirit grace us with his wisdom and understanding. You stated that Paul was bold in his teachings; but could be so because he was taught by Jesus in the desert. Scripture says we are taught the same way.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him abideth in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman (symbolic of the church, which is us) were given two wings of a great eagle (symbolic of the kingdom of heaven), that she might fly in the wilderness (the desert where you are taught by the Holy Spirit, which is Christ), into her place, nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (symbolic of the day of the Lord which began at John the Baptist crying as a voice in the desert and has continued now for 2000 years.

Ezekiel 17:1-24

Mark 1:3

John 1:23

Daniel 12:7

Daniel 12:11-12

BE BOLD, fear not it's Christ words, it's his WORKS.

Hi Skip, hope you don't mind, I agree with your "wonder to the angels". I have not read anywhere in scripture that angels will be replaced. In Matt. 25:41 we read the lake of fire was prepared for Satan (devil) and his angels and like everything else, most likely before the foundation of the world, the plan of God. We read in Job1:6 Job 2:1 Satan still has access to heaven, Satan and God are having a conversation about Job. We also see God puts restrictions on Satan.

I Luke.10:18 we read Jesus saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven.

In Revelation 12:10 we read the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down. Satan did not fall in Revelation 12, he was cast out of heaven "neither was their place found any more in heaven". We also see in Revelation 12:11 the reason they were able to cast Satan out. "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony"; This shows this is at least after the crucifying of Jesus, more likely in the future. Also, in Revelation 12, it is permanent, they are rejoicing in heaven Satan will no longer have access to heaven. When Satan is cast out down to earth he gives his power to the beast in Revelation 13.

In the Bible, we can read angels left their first estate and their own habitation and are locked in chains of darkness until judgment day. Jude 1:6 and 2Pet.2:4. Some scriptures say there are demons, evil spirits on the earth, and how they got here there is little information in the Bible how. You have to go outside the Bible and compile a bushel of speculations and pick one but be careful.

Some things are not answered by scriptures but do not affect our salvation. The things we do need are in bold print.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Thanks Ron

Vincent,

Go ahead and tell us your thoughts here. I can't extract specific answers from the text.

Maybe you can explain the dichotomy of the devil who shows up in the garden, Genesis 3, from the "morning star" that weakened the nations, Isaiah 14:12-15 and aspired to rise to heaven, from the one kicked out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-9.

I need semblance to draw a rational conclusion on what's happening with satan's tenure. Is this the nature of inequity, allowing the spirit of satan to continually spoil life?

Jesus calls the devil "the God of this world", 2 Corinthians 4:4. Does the devil's spirit reside on earth where he works his loom, or does he do so from heaven, or both? Has he already been kicked out of heaven, and Rev 12:7-9 is purely symbolic?

Today we face the same problems Adam and Eve faced in the garden, nothing has changed. I have a feeling you can shed light on this.

For a job, health and coverage. Blessings.

Ron,

"the 6th trumpet the 2nd woe. If we read Revelation 11 and Revelation 12 it was the third woe the final woe"

You misspoke. The 7th trumpet is the 3rd woe.

I must say this is a defining moment. You almost had me...



Revelation 12:12 will just have to wait a little season. Rev 12:12 will be given robes like their fellow servants.

God Bless America

I'd like to add some commentary concerning Jesus' ministry. The 70th week is split evenly, and over time, between Jesus and Anti-Christ: each having 42 months (3.5 years) power. Jesus' ministry was the 1st half of the week, 42 months, and was cut off, crucified, then in the end-times, satan gets the 2nd half of the week, 42 months.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

We also see that the 2 witnesses (The 144,000, The woman/church) are persecuted by by satan for 42 months, Revelation 12:4

These hostilities takes place between the 6th and 7th trumpets, during anti-Christs rule.

There is no such thing as a 7 year great tribulation, satan only gets 42 months.