20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Death is an enemy; and verse 26 of this chapter indicates that it will eventually be eliminated. Jesus was the "first of the firstfruits" so to speak; which extends through the Rapture/Resurrection event of the righteous; through the Revelation 14:4 event of the translation of the 144,000. After this we will have the Second Coming when those that survive until that time physically will survive to repopulate the earth in the Millennial period; followed by the time the Heavenly Jerusalem comes down and God the Father dwells with men (v. 24).
It is hard to comprehend let alone understand all the mysteries of His death; burial and resurrection. It is as a grand play on stage; except that the pathos is real; and His atonement was sufficient for us all to deliver our sins as far as the east is from the west. ( Psalm 103:12). He ever lives to intercede for His people ( Hebrews 7:25). He first rose from the dead and we shall likewise. He who believes in Him will never die ( John 11:25-26) even though he dies physically in reality it is only the body that sleeps as we see about Lazarus earlier in that chapter. We have hope unlike the world for those "fallen asleep" ( 1 Thess. 4:14-18).
All of creation also is awaiting the change and groans until now ( Romans 8:23). For those who believe the last scene of this real life drama is glorious and never ending; while there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; etal). Let that sink in as the world in its ignorance turns this glorious day into a mockery.
There are several speculations on what the mark may be, a literal mark, a computer chip, symbols, and more but the mark of the beast will be based on worship. It is the false prophet, the second beast who causes people to worship the first beast and his image. The number 666 goes back to Babylon, the 36 gods numbered 1 through 36, 6 columns and 6 rows the numbers were arranged in such a way that the sum of any given row, column, or diagonal was 111, and therefore the sum of all six rows or all six columns was 666, like 18+20+22+21+17+13 =111, 1+2+3 to 36=666.
We are told to have faith and patience Luke 21:19Hebrews 6:12 and hear in Revelation 13:10 and Revelation 14:11 that if we are strong in our faith and patience we will have the steadfastness and endurance (the meaning of patience) to not give into the temptation of the three who is to come, Satan, the beast out of the bottomless pit and the beast who will be the false prophet, even if we face death, the hour of temptation, Rev. 3:10.
Something like this was done in the past in the Decian persecution in 250 AD. The decree ordered sacrifices be performed in the presence of a Roman magistrate, it was a signed and witnessed certificate, issued to that effect. People had to perform a sacrifice to the Roman gods and the well-being of the emperor.
Christians were put to death for refusing to perform the sacrifices, many others apostatized and performed the ceremonies, and others went into hiding. Those who compromised were able to prosper economically. By way of contrast, those who did not have the certificate were unable to buy or sell and suffered economic hardship. Buying and selling was done in marketplaces ruled by Rome. This may be similar to what is coming but a mark instead of a certificate.
Thank you for your reply of yesterday.I highlighted six points of your post to comment them,as follow:
1st point:
What will happen from now on in the middle east and around the world as a whole, it is written and prophesied by the Word of GOD.Remember: 1The.5:2-3:->2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,as travail upon a woman with child ( Revelation 12:1-5 will LITERALLY be fulfilled);and they(Israel-the Jews) shall not escape.(EXCEPT the sealed 144k-12K of each tribe- Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-5). And also the LITERAL fulfillment of 2The.2:1-13, mainly verses 11-12:-->11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION,that they should believe a lie:(These are lost).12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2nd point:
Yes,Israel will loose support, remember that GOD is in control of History,nothing random happens.In the first moment Israel have received all backing of their allies,but they will loose a lot of support,as you said.And when this becomes apparent ARE NOT the enemies of Israel that will try to take them over, as you think, no, it is not,when Israel loose the support,then will manifest their false messiah as was prophesied by my Lord JESUS( John 5:43-47),and then begins the LITERAL fullfilment of 2Thessalonians 2:8-12 combined with Revelation 13:11-18, and 13:2 combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2,and Daniel 2:40-45 and 12:8-12. GET READY
3rd point:
GOD will not intervene to save the physical nation of Israel, quite the opposite, GOD will work according His Word described in the 2nd point above, among many other prophecies against the rebel Israel.
Only the 144K sealed of Israel will be saved.The others are lost, for ever. Revelation 14:18-20 combined with Isaiah 5:1-7.Take a look.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
About 15 years ago and several times before that I had a vision of the pure terror involved with the mark of the Beast. I have since told people that I would ask the Lord would give them such insight but not for those who aren't spiritually strong. The Lord has held back the day of Judgment, but it is promised to be worse than any time in the past and future. Mark 13:19 as well as other New Testament passages and Daniel 12 show proof of this. Without Christ we are dragged in; to the sieve of destruction ( Isaiah 30:28). Suddenly the wicked are broken and that without remedy ( Prov. 6:15).
To realize how fearful judgment is apart from Christ I cannot put into words. When we see Mystery Babylon we can't help but be reminded of the American Pie song with its lyrics
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
These remind us of Ecclesiastes 12:4 as well as Lamentations 5:14 along with other stanzas in this song about the Lord taking off and no more joyful music as stated in Revelation 18:22. We are hypnotized by music and media today and its demonic mantras and dulled in our senses with the vulgar obsenities that increasingly assail the rightous. The agenda is out in the open at this point; Satan's hour is about to arrive. Christ comes soon so rejoice
35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth(JESUS was the sower of the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom), and ANOTHER reapeth.
Matthew 13:27 and 30:
27 ... Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
30 Let both grow together until the harvest(said JESUS around 2000 years ago): and in the time of harvest (the time arrived) I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life ETERNAL: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 combined with Revelation 14:14-20
You don't realize that the "moral law" still stands. The "ceremonial law" was a schoolmaster showing the redeemer to come. Which one of those "commandments" am I allowed to trample on?.. Adultery? it's ok, I'm not "under the law" right?.. Honoring my parents?.. nah, why should I? Not under the law right?.. you may want to study further as to what a ceremonial "sabbath" is, and what the eternal "moral" law is. 1 cor 7:19.. explain what are these "commandments"? Revelation 14:12.. what are these "commandments"?
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
This seems pretty clear to me and hard to misunderstand it unless someone tries to twist it.
If someone doesn't believe punishment is eternal then maybe someone should likewise question whether heaven is eternal, because this verse states them both as being everlasting / eternal.
The Bible says the soul will die, the 2nd death, perish, etc. But how do you know that's not the eternal part, or how can you prove that God allows someone to actually suffer without a soul, etc. Basically people are just speculating, and its not going to get very far.
But perhaps we can all agree that hell is bad and heaven is good? Hell is punishment and something to be avoided, and we need Jesus to avoid it. John 3:16 says this.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You can safely say some will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, because that's literally what this verse says.
Mark 9:43-48 - unquenching fire- you can safely say that hell isn't immediately going away, either. It's likely in full operation.
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel 12:1-2 ever lasting life vs ever lasting contempt
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 everlasting destruction. This might debunk the human reasoning idea that death or being destroyed must only happen in a short timeframe. This says it can happen 'ever lasting' which seems long term or eternal. So, this verse now explains all the other verses where it makes sense.
Revelation 14:11 smoke of their torment for ever and ever. That doesn't sound immediate or short term to me, but forever.
Where in the bible does it say that the soul will cease to exist? If anyone ceases to exist when they die, can you please answer these questions. I will be the student here, so you have my attention. If you choose to answer these things, I do thank you ahead of time.
In Matthew 25:46, Is this not describing two classes of people, those who received Christ and belong to Him, and those who have rejected Him? If those who reject Him die and cease to exist, how can they go away into eternal punishment if they do not exist?
Revelation 14:11 says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night. How can this be for someone that does not exist?
Hebrews 9:27 tells us that it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. How can anyone who dies and ceases to exist be judged since this judgment comes (after) death?
Revelation 21:8 identifies a class of individuals who will end up in the lake of fire, and it also mentions that this is the second death. If they went through the first death and ceased to exist, how can they experience a second death if they do not exist?
2 Thessalonians 1:9 says that they will suffer the punishment of (eternal destruction), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. How is ceasing to exist considered suffering?
Jema, since Romans 6:23 has been quoted which says that the wages of sin is death, how do you get cease to exist out of this word death when the Greek word used (Thanatos) means separation, not cessation of life? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that at death, there is a separation from our physical body since this is what the word death means?
Revelation 14:10 talks about being tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Who is this for and how long will this torment last?
I have more questions to follow. Thank you for your time.
Revelation of JESUS Christ,which GOD gave unto Him,to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass;
Three angels proclaim the righteous Judgment of GOD
Revelation 14:6-13 (Compare with Gen.18 -Three angels visited Abraham before destruction of Sodoma)
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,and to every nation,and kindred,and tongue,and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice,Fear GOD and give glory to Him;for the hour of His Judgment is come:and worship Him that made heaven, and earth,and the sea,and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel,saying,Babylon is fallen,is fallen, that great city,because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them,saying with a loud voice,If any man worship the Beast and His image,and receive his mark in his forehead,or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH of GOD,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,and in the presence of the Lamb:
Genesis 18:1-33&19:12-17&27-29
- First,the Lord appeared unto Abraham in the plains of Mamre:and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;And he lift up his eyes and looked,and,lo, three MEN stood by him:and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door,and bowed himself toward the ground,
- Soon after,Abraham offered the three MEN a delicious lunch,in fact a banquet,and stood by them under the tree,and they did eat.
- And they asked unto Abraham:Where is Sarah thy wife?I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life;and,lo,Sarah thy wife shall have a son
- The Lord also said:Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do? they rose up from thence and looked toward Sodom:Abraham asked: Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Sorting out the firstfruits: From Christ to the 144,000
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ( 1 Cor. 15:20-22).
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 14:1-5
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
As I mentioned in earlier postings; the firstfruits originated with Christ Himself being lifted up; those who rose from the dead (a sort of gleaning) in Matthew 27:53. Then there is the Rapture where the church appears in Revelation 5 (although firstfruits isn't in that text) and finally the 144,000 mentioned as firstfruits in Rev. 14. It would seem that in this case those of Jewish descent would be the focus here. There is a new song shared here along with the church in Revelation 5. It would seem the 144,000 come after the midpoint of the Tribulation.
This mark will be freely taken, it will not be disguised and whoever takes it will know what they are doing, like you said who will you worship?
In Revelation 13:11-18 the second beast/the false prophet is the one who makes an image of the first beast, and forces people to receive this mark, and if not, they are killed. The mark of the beast is said to be diverse things, a literal mark, a computer chip, symbols, and more, something like this was done in the past.
It may be like the Decian persecution in 250 AD under Emperor Decius. The decree ordered sacrifices had to be performed in the presence of a Roman magistrate, it was a signed and witnessed certificate, issued to that effect. People had to perform a sacrifice to the Roman gods/image, or idol for the well-being of the Emperor. A great number of Christians were put to death for refusing to perform the sacrifices.
Many others apostatized (falling away) and performed the ceremonies, and others went into hiding. This picture language appears to identify those who had given either mental assent or extended the right hand of fellowship to this evil conglomerate power. These compromisers thus were able to prosper economically. By way of contrast, those who did not receive the mark were unable to go into the marketplaces and hence suffered hardship, illustrated in the form of economic deprivation.
Something like this could be the mark of the beast although I believe it will be an actual mark. Like the ones in the past who gave in and took the certificate so they would not be killed, one will give up eternal life for a few years in this corrupt world. If we are living when this starts, we must stand strong in our faith regardless of what we face, God will give us the strength.
Why do you assume the beast in Revelation is satan or the anti-christ?
Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH beast shall be the FORTH KINGDOM on earth ....
John the Baptist came preaching the KINGDOM of GOD; the FORTH kingdom on earth, the FORTH BEAST, the last kingdom on earth.
The Kingdom of God has been on earth now for about 2000 years; CHRIST IN THE FLESH, IN YOU, his BODY, causing man TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 I WILL put MY SPIRIT IN YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes and TO KEEP my judgements and DO THEM
Revelation 6:7 And when HE (the lamb of God) had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the FORTH BEAST (the lamb of God, the kingdom of God) SAY, come and see
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and his name that sat on him WAS DEATH, and the grave followed after him, and POWER WAS GIVEN TO THEM (the image of the BEAST, the kingdom of GOD) over the forth part of the earth, to KILL with the SWORD (the word of God), and with HUNGER (no bread of life), and with DEATH, and with the BEAST of the EARTH (those that carry the mark of the BEAST: the kingdom of God.
Revelation 12:16 And the earth HELPED the WOMAN, and the earth OPENED her MOUTH (DEATH and the grave), and swallowed up the FLOOD (people, tongues and nations) which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Psalms 7:13 He hath also prepared for him the INSTRUMENTS of DEATH; he ORDAINED his ARROWS against the persecutors.
Jeremiah 51:29 THOU (those that carry the MARK) are my battle axe and WEAPONS of WAR (arrows, the word of GOD); for with THEE (the saints, the BODY of Christ, the IMAGE of the BEAST) WILL I break in pieces the NATIONS, and with THEE will I destroy kingdoms.
Revelation 2:27 ...to him that overcometh, WILL I give POWER over the NATIONS .....
Peaches, I agree with your interpretation of the "mark". Symbolizing scriptures like Deut. 11:8 "Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes." Referring to what we think and do. The angel sealing the servants of God in Rev. 7 seems like it has to do with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Referring to changing our thinking.
Mark of the beast is not about any person on whom one can tack his 'bogey'. In the cold war it was Soviet union and quiet recently we have come across the names such as Ayatollah Komeini, Saddam Hossein ISIL et al. The Spirit uses Number 6 as he uses Number 3 or 4. In Ez.39:2 the number Six is used as 'condemnation' against Gog.("And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee". The same tag we find with regards to the image that the king set up. "Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon."(Dan.3:1) This is against the number 3 assigned for the Son. The creation account in Seven days we have the first Four days allotted for heaven, Four gospels, 4 cardinal directions indication of Jesus Christ the Savior of the World God was Word. Thus 4+3 gives us 7,- the command number for perfection.
666 refers in sequence body spirit and soul which is short of 777. The beast whose authority came from the dragon had no use for the word of God. So his body, spirit and soul were equally marked as condemned. The dragon in Re.13 has seven heads because he is the son of God gone rogue. But his 10 horns indicate he is under the wrath which explains the Decalogue. So whoever rejects the word of God is marked 666 and belongs to Satan. God shall not judge but has left all judgment to the Son. So till the Great White Throne the number 666 stays.
In Re.16 we have a hint from the Spirit that Satan, anti-christ and the beast are in agreement: "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet./For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, "(vv.13-14)
Hello Peaches, You are right about the Mark being about who we give our allegiance and worship to and that it is not any vaccine now available.
But what you said about the DNA is not correct. One's DNA is not altered by a vaccine anymore that by the meat or other foods we eat. The nourishment of food is broken down and goes into every cell of our body. So we should not fear our DNA being changed against God's will for how each person's DNA is unique to them. God is able to preserve our bodily integrity down to the DNA, even to the amino acid molecules that make up the DNA and to the atoms that make up the elements that constitute our bodies.
I praise God for we are fearfully and wonderfully made!
The Mark of the Beast is about who you will worship, Jesus (our Saviour and Creator of all things) or Satan (the Beast power). It has to do with what you think and your actions.
It cannot have anything to do with the covid shot. Even the childhood vaccines have aborted DNA debris in them and this too adds someone's DNA into your body and your stem cells readily take the DNA into them.
I'm sorry Rainwalker, the belief in a literal Hell & a literal eternal torment for those who have rejected God & His Christ is not an idea from the dark ages nor from the Vatican - this is Scripture & plenty of them to support it. It's how one chooses to read, understand & accept the teachings from the Word that is in question - the Word does not change.
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
May I ask, How can one it be tormented if there is no awareness?
Revelation 14:9-11.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be TORMENTED with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: AND THEY HAVE NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
And can they have no rest day and night if they are without awareness?
To torment means to torture: - pain toil torment toss vex.
How can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth as mentioned in many verses?
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
It would appear from Revelation 14:14 that the 144,000 standing on the heavenly Mt. Zion are indeed translated. There is no mention as with the multitude of being martyred.
Technically; there is no proof that the 144,000 aren't scattered throughout the earth rather than just in Israel. There would certainly seem to be a connection between them and the 2 prophets as they will be able to control the plagues of weather on the earth which would of course affect whatever region or area the 144,000 are ministering in.
One thing I neglected in the last posting is the fact that there is no mention of the 144,000 evangelizing to the multitude. If they do that sort of ministry; it is clear that their preservation from the plagues of God will make them stand out; as well as their exemplary character during the time of unrestrained sin. (see Revelation 7). The type of plagues and timing must be close with them and the 2 Prophets; some overlap may be present between the first and second half of the Tribulation where their ministry occurs. Sequentially; it appears they start before the Trumpet judgments and exit at the time of the sixth trumpet around when the prophets die and are resurrected (see Revelation 11:13-14).
The warnings in Matthew 24 about persecution; martyrdom; wars; etc. have a preliminary fulfillment at least for the Apostles ending around AD 70. It would seem the same pattern fits in with today and those final witnesses in Israel. Deuteronomy 4:30-31 seems to show how God will respond in the last days during the Tribulation; again only for those Israelites who truly repent. Many will no doubt follow Antichrist to their own demise.
According to Genesis 4:15; a mark set upon Cain was to cause vengeance to anyone who would attempt to take his life. Compare this to the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 and we find some interesting parallels.
First; Satan was a "murderer from the beginning." ( John 8:44). It is no surprise that the first child of Adam was to be attacked after Adam and Eve fell. Having failed the test of God he let temptation rule over him and slayed Abel his brother. Satan is also said to steal and destroy ( John 10:10) along with his lying. We see the progeny of Adam and Eve being destroyed; along with stealing from the parents being able to give an inheritance and Abel receiving it.
Later on in Genesis 4:24 Lamech tries to gain vengeance by his declaration of seventy times seventy for himself for his own violent actions. Kind of like the opposite of forgiveness for the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
The apparent resurrection of Antichrist from a deadly wound as well as being able to kill the two prophets that tormented men will inspire him to declare indestructibility as well as being able to effectively fight against God. He will likely convince men that he can live forever by merging with AI; and likely the DNA of the Nephilim or something to that affect will be part of that plan; as it was in Genesis 6 when all the descendants of men were destroyed for that reason (see Genesis 6:8-9 on Noah being perfect in his generations). Hence at that time we saw no repentance except for Noah; his wife; his 3 sons and their wives.
Whatever the case men will be unredeemable once they take the mark ( Revelation 14:9 and other passages). That will be the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where people willingly reject the truth and believe The Lie.
The verse on those who dwell on the earth ( Revelation 11:10; also see Revelation 6:10 and other passages) indicates the sea of lost humanity. Revelation 13:8 concludes this for all unsaved.
I have seen this connection made between Matthew 13:24-30 & Revelation 14:14-20 before, Tammy, but as you study those passages, you may notice some clear differences. To give them much detail here would take too long, so I'll highlight them, to show that these are not the same events.
Matthew 13:24-30 (with the parable's interpretation given in vv 36-43). The Sower is the Lord Who planted His Seed (which brought forth His children) in His field (the Church, His Body). But the enemy (Satan) also has his way & planted his seed (of unregenerate & evil hearts) amongst the good seed. If this was the world spoken of & not the Church, then identification between the good & evil would be easy. Of course, as they grew together, they appeared the same, until the tares showed their true color. Using Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15-17, those tares that could be easily seen amongst them can be exposed for who they are, but often they can't be seen until Christ's examination, judgement, & removal. The believers will be gathered by the reapers at the harvest unto Him & the imposters burned with fire. Given that this parable was spoken amongst the Jews, there could be application to those who were righteous under the Law ("children of the kingdom") & the unrighteous amongst them.
Revelation 14:14-20, the Reaper is the Lord (v16) and the angel who had the sickle did the gathering. What was reaped & what was gathered? "..the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are ripe". These are not the tares in Matthew, but are shown as being slashed off the vine, & that at their crushing, their juice (as blood) came out in volumes as a result of Christ's Judgement; maybe at that great final battle when the enemies of Christ are slaughtered ( Revelation 19:17-21).
The parable of the wheat & the tares is for "the end of this world" ( Matthew 13:40), not post-trib, nor pre-trib. So I don't read this parable as you do & in comparing it with Revelation 14.
Hi Tammy. Revelation 14:14-20: the verses aren't clear as to what Jesus reaped when He thrust in His sickle. I think you have assumed that it was believers that were harvested (or, raptured), & the angel clearly thrust in his sickle to gather the vine/grapes fit for destruction. The way I read those verses, is that the Lord harvested & the angel gathered. Even though a sickle is used for slashing a plant, it seems that it is used here as a symbol for gathering the harvest, that which the Lord performed. Can you read those verses in that way & see if that makes sense - since the Lord's harvesting doesn't describe the crops for harvest, it then has to be assumed that the whole job was for gathering the wicked together. And even here, the timeline of events appears out of sync. You may feel I'm laboring this point unnecessarily, but these are all small parts of eschatology that make up the whole account. Misunderstanding something here or applying the verses in another way, could well mean that we set off on another track.
As for God's Wrath, I agree that it is poured out because of the wickedness of unbelievers & for unbelievers only. But the matter that we discussed earlier was, 'is the Great Tribulation synonymous with God's Wrath, or merely a greater outpouring of horrors that comes on the whole world?' I shared that the Great Tribulation appears to be God's Wrath (as shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 11 & beyond) & we read this in Revelation 6:17 & Revelation 15:1, which fall upon men over a long period of time. And if it be God's Wrath from the time that His Restrainer is removed & the anti-Christ is revealed, then the Church (the true children of God) are snatched away before this time of torment.
Anyway Tammy, I see that our differences largely depend on the definition of these biblical terms & the verses that support them - hence the nature of the pre or post trib position are both valid depending on how we define these terms with their Scriptures. GBU.
I believe you're correct Tammy, that the Book of the Revelation does not always appear in chronological order & even if we try & read it as such (with our logical, ordered minds), we can't be absolutely certain of the correct sequence of events, seeing that John received this heavenly vision & Word in a manner appointed by the Lord.
But you've directed my reading to Revelation chapter 14, in which you see "that the saints will be here for the event of the mark of the beast, and after that event, Jesus returns for the harvest". From Revelation 14:6, we read of an angel arriving in the heavens with "the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth". And then further down in verses 12 & 13, we read of "the patience of the saintsthat keep the commandments of God". I assume that these are the verses that convinces you that all believers (saints) will still be here, i.e. the Church pre- & during the Great Tribulation. Yet, if we take the angelic presentation of the Gospel (obviously not needed for the Church, but for the unbelievers at that time of anti-Christ's reign), then maybe the saints of verse 12 are those who were converted through the delivered Gospel, the Lord giving these others opportunity to repent & believe, who may already have taken the beast's mark, and to be saved. Just a thought.
And finally, verses 14 to 20 show the harvesting of the Earth. But who are harvested? In my reading, the harvest is directed to the haters & rejecters of God & are forthwith cast into "the great winepress of the wrath of God" (verse 20). Now, even if the order of events may seem unclear, at least those whom the Lord is referring to, is clear. And yes, both Revelation 15:1 and Revelation 6:17 declare that these sufferings do come from God (from His Wrath) & not resulting from natural occurrences that we see at present; that this time IS God's Wrath being poured out & not something felt at the end. So will the present Church be saved from this Wrath?
Continuing with just a few of the Day of the Lord verses.
Zephaniah 1:15
Isaiah 13:9
Lamentations 2:1
Isaiah 13:13
Isaiah 51:22
Jeremiah 25:15
Revelation 16:19
Revelation 14:10
Revelation 16:1
Isaiah 63:1-6.
This is what Paul is telling them is not at hand. This is what we all agree on besides a few that the Church will not see.
However some see the Rapture in Revelation 20:4-6 sadly mistaking it for the Resurrection.
That would place the Church on the Earth during the wrath of the Lord that comes upon all the Earth.
When we take 2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;
Paul gives them the sequence of events in chronological order of what happens "AFTER" that what he reminded them of previously in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
That's why he opens up saying "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by "OUR" gathering together unto him," 2 Thessalonians 2:1.
Paul included them and himself in this gathering! So did they see the son of perdition? No.
We take 2 Thessalonians 2:3 with the following scriptures to pitch our viewpoint. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-15.
The son of perdition can't come while the light bearers is in the world. The Church! Who sits in the midst of the Church? Christ/His Holyspirit.
The book of Revelation is prophecy, it was back then to the churches, and it is to us today. I'm shocked at hearing a teaching (from more than one teacher) that a person can take the mark of the beast, but later repent of it, and still be saved, because it isn't the unpardonable sin. This teaching is false and quite dangerous. When we read in Revelation 14:9-11, the warning is very clear, If anyone takes the mark of the beast, they will drink of the wine of God's wrath, and they will be tormented in hell for eternity. Then, in Revelation 16 God begins to pour out his wrath, and in two verses, 9 and 11, it clearly says, those that took the mark of the beast, and are drinking the wine of God's wrath, DO NOT repent. That is prophecy. Those that take the mark of the beast will endure God's wrath, they will NOT repent, and they will be tormented in hell forever. God's Word is true and sure.
I've recently heard the term "Tribulation Saints", I guess meaning the saints living through the Great Tribulation, described in Revelation 14. I'm wondering if any here feel WE are those spoken of in Revelation 14:12-13. (This is not a pre or post trib question). I'm asking because of the things we're seeing in the world today (digital currency, etc.), is it possible that we are the "tribulation saints"? If so, are we ready to refuse the mark, that will allow us to buy and sell...and...even death? God Bless
Matthew 24:14 says, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." There are churches out there that say that Jesus would have come by now had the church been doing its job, because once the whole world is reached for Christ, then He is going to come. I've heard people actually say this.
But during the tribulation, there will not be a need for the church to be out spreading the gospel message. If I remember correctly, I believe in one of your posts you had mentioned to someone that if the church is gone during the tribulation, how are people going to be reached with the gospel message? Those were not your exact words but something of that sort.
Well, in the book of Revelation, it tells us how the world is going to be reached. It tells us that there will be 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, that are sealed by God so that they cannot be killed. No one can harm them. They are Jewish believers, and I believe that they will be evangelists during the tribulation period, 144,000 of them.
Secondly, there will be an angel flying in mid-heaven, according to Revelation Chapter 14:6-7. It says that there will be an angel flying in mid-heaven for 3 years. And Revelation 14:6 tells us that he reaches every single person on the earth with the gospel, everybody!
And then in Revelation 11:3-13, there are two witnesses that are witnessing in the streets of Jerusalem, and the whole world sees them. Our technology today makes that possible. So, everyone will be reached before His second coming. God Himself will fulfill that promise.
Lord willing, I will finish this up with one more post, I promise!
I agree Jimbob, our early Church teaching would normally have great influence on what we believe today (I first went to a Fellowship that preached almost weekly on Christ's coming/rapture, & the Pastor often said of himself, 'I won't see death because the Lord's coming is so near'). And we believed him & waited patiently for the Lord Jesus. He left this Earth over thirty years ago & still no rapture, so clearly his hope was certain but his assessment of the world's events & God's Timing were incorrect. So there's error to be noted. I believe that when I was saved much later in October 1979 (in my mid-20s), & then had a yearning to apply myself wholly to the reading & study of God's Word (even leaving paid employment to do this for six months), I had to also 'attempt' to cancel out what I was taught, but learn Truths from the Bible itself & then re-introduce those earlier teachings if I could now see them clearly in the Word. So, what I've written earlier to you in support of my belief is largely from the Scriptures I've considered & not from earlier exposure to this doctrine (in fact, some of these Scriptures weren't even addressed, if I remember correctly).
So, to your three questions:
a. I don't see Revelation 14:14-16 ("harvesting") as that of the Church's rapture. 'Jesus thrust in His sickle & the earth was reaped'. Then two angels appear (one with a sickle, the other having "power over fire"). Clearly, these angels were engaged with gathering the "clusters of the vine of the earth" to be cast into the "winepress of the wrath of God" (this might allude to the battle at Megiddo). So what happened when Jesus cast in His sickle? When the earth was "reaped", what took place? The possible answer is in Revelation 14:13, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth..." (from henceforth). This is not the Church, but those who are martyred under & following (henceforth) from the beast's reign. I don't see a rapture in this passage.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Death is an enemy; and verse 26 of this chapter indicates that it will eventually be eliminated. Jesus was the "first of the firstfruits" so to speak; which extends through the Rapture/Resurrection event of the righteous; through the Revelation 14:4 event of the translation of the 144,000. After this we will have the Second Coming when those that survive until that time physically will survive to repopulate the earth in the Millennial period; followed by the time the Heavenly Jerusalem comes down and God the Father dwells with men (v. 24).
It is hard to comprehend let alone understand all the mysteries of His death; burial and resurrection. It is as a grand play on stage; except that the pathos is real; and His atonement was sufficient for us all to deliver our sins as far as the east is from the west. ( Psalm 103:12). He ever lives to intercede for His people ( Hebrews 7:25). He first rose from the dead and we shall likewise. He who believes in Him will never die ( John 11:25-26) even though he dies physically in reality it is only the body that sleeps as we see about Lazarus earlier in that chapter. We have hope unlike the world for those "fallen asleep" ( 1 Thess. 4:14-18).
All of creation also is awaiting the change and groans until now ( Romans 8:23). For those who believe the last scene of this real life drama is glorious and never ending; while there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; etal). Let that sink in as the world in its ignorance turns this glorious day into a mockery.
Maranatha. Lord come soon!
Agape.
There are several speculations on what the mark may be, a literal mark, a computer chip, symbols, and more but the mark of the beast will be based on worship. It is the false prophet, the second beast who causes people to worship the first beast and his image. The number 666 goes back to Babylon, the 36 gods numbered 1 through 36, 6 columns and 6 rows the numbers were arranged in such a way that the sum of any given row, column, or diagonal was 111, and therefore the sum of all six rows or all six columns was 666, like 18+20+22+21+17+13 =111, 1+2+3 to 36=666.
We are told to have faith and patience Luke 21:19 Hebrews 6:12 and hear in Revelation 13:10 and Revelation 14:11 that if we are strong in our faith and patience we will have the steadfastness and endurance (the meaning of patience) to not give into the temptation of the three who is to come, Satan, the beast out of the bottomless pit and the beast who will be the false prophet, even if we face death, the hour of temptation, Rev. 3:10.
Something like this was done in the past in the Decian persecution in 250 AD. The decree ordered sacrifices be performed in the presence of a Roman magistrate, it was a signed and witnessed certificate, issued to that effect. People had to perform a sacrifice to the Roman gods and the well-being of the emperor.
Christians were put to death for refusing to perform the sacrifices, many others apostatized and performed the ceremonies, and others went into hiding. Those who compromised were able to prosper economically. By way of contrast, those who did not have the certificate were unable to buy or sell and suffered economic hardship. Buying and selling was done in marketplaces ruled by Rome. This may be similar to what is coming but a mark instead of a certificate.
Hope this helps.
God bless,
RLW
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Thank you for your reply of yesterday.I highlighted six points of your post to comment them,as follow:
1st point:
What will happen from now on in the middle east and around the world as a whole, it is written and prophesied by the Word of GOD.Remember: 1The.5:2-3:->2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,as travail upon a woman with child ( Revelation 12:1-5 will LITERALLY be fulfilled);and they(Israel-the Jews) shall not escape.(EXCEPT the sealed 144k-12K of each tribe- Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-5). And also the LITERAL fulfillment of 2The.2:1-13, mainly verses 11-12:-->11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION,that they should believe a lie:(These are lost).12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2nd point:
Yes,Israel will loose support, remember that GOD is in control of History,nothing random happens.In the first moment Israel have received all backing of their allies,but they will loose a lot of support,as you said.And when this becomes apparent ARE NOT the enemies of Israel that will try to take them over, as you think, no, it is not,when Israel loose the support,then will manifest their false messiah as was prophesied by my Lord JESUS( John 5:43-47),and then begins the LITERAL fullfilment of 2Thessalonians 2:8-12 combined with Revelation 13:11-18, and 13:2 combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2,and Daniel 2:40-45 and 12:8-12. GET READY
3rd point:
GOD will not intervene to save the physical nation of Israel, quite the opposite, GOD will work according His Word described in the 2nd point above, among many other prophecies against the rebel Israel.
Only the 144K sealed of Israel will be saved.The others are lost, for ever. Revelation 14:18-20 combined with Isaiah 5:1-7.Take a look.
continues in the next post
Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
About 15 years ago and several times before that I had a vision of the pure terror involved with the mark of the Beast. I have since told people that I would ask the Lord would give them such insight but not for those who aren't spiritually strong. The Lord has held back the day of Judgment, but it is promised to be worse than any time in the past and future. Mark 13:19 as well as other New Testament passages and Daniel 12 show proof of this. Without Christ we are dragged in; to the sieve of destruction ( Isaiah 30:28). Suddenly the wicked are broken and that without remedy ( Prov. 6:15).
To realize how fearful judgment is apart from Christ I cannot put into words. When we see Mystery Babylon we can't help but be reminded of the American Pie song with its lyrics
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
These remind us of Ecclesiastes 12:4 as well as Lamentations 5:14 along with other stanzas in this song about the Lord taking off and no more joyful music as stated in Revelation 18:22. We are hypnotized by music and media today and its demonic mantras and dulled in our senses with the vulgar obsenities that increasingly assail the rightous. The agenda is out in the open at this point; Satan's hour is about to arrive. Christ comes soon so rejoice
John 4:35-37 - JESUS said:
35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth(JESUS was the sower of the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom), and ANOTHER reapeth.
Matthew 13:27 and 30:
27 ... Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
30 Let both grow together until the harvest(said JESUS around 2000 years ago): and in the time of harvest (the time arrived) I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life ETERNAL: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 combined with Revelation 14:14-20
GOD bless
This seems pretty clear to me and hard to misunderstand it unless someone tries to twist it.
If someone doesn't believe punishment is eternal then maybe someone should likewise question whether heaven is eternal, because this verse states them both as being everlasting / eternal.
The Bible says the soul will die, the 2nd death, perish, etc. But how do you know that's not the eternal part, or how can you prove that God allows someone to actually suffer without a soul, etc. Basically people are just speculating, and its not going to get very far.
But perhaps we can all agree that hell is bad and heaven is good? Hell is punishment and something to be avoided, and we need Jesus to avoid it. John 3:16 says this.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You can safely say some will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, because that's literally what this verse says.
Mark 9:43-48 - unquenching fire- you can safely say that hell isn't immediately going away, either. It's likely in full operation.
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel 12:1-2 ever lasting life vs ever lasting contempt
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 everlasting destruction. This might debunk the human reasoning idea that death or being destroyed must only happen in a short timeframe. This says it can happen 'ever lasting' which seems long term or eternal. So, this verse now explains all the other verses where it makes sense.
Revelation 14:11 smoke of their torment for ever and ever. That doesn't sound immediate or short term to me, but forever.
God bless you.
(Part 1):
Where in the bible does it say that the soul will cease to exist? If anyone ceases to exist when they die, can you please answer these questions. I will be the student here, so you have my attention. If you choose to answer these things, I do thank you ahead of time.
In Matthew 25:46, Is this not describing two classes of people, those who received Christ and belong to Him, and those who have rejected Him? If those who reject Him die and cease to exist, how can they go away into eternal punishment if they do not exist?
Revelation 14:11 says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night. How can this be for someone that does not exist?
Hebrews 9:27 tells us that it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. How can anyone who dies and ceases to exist be judged since this judgment comes (after) death?
Revelation 21:8 identifies a class of individuals who will end up in the lake of fire, and it also mentions that this is the second death. If they went through the first death and ceased to exist, how can they experience a second death if they do not exist?
2 Thessalonians 1:9 says that they will suffer the punishment of (eternal destruction), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. How is ceasing to exist considered suffering?
Jema, since Romans 6:23 has been quoted which says that the wages of sin is death, how do you get cease to exist out of this word death when the Greek word used (Thanatos) means separation, not cessation of life? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that at death, there is a separation from our physical body since this is what the word death means?
Revelation 14:10 talks about being tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Who is this for and how long will this torment last?
I have more questions to follow. Thank you for your time.
Revelation of JESUS Christ,which GOD gave unto Him,to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass;
Three angels proclaim the righteous Judgment of GOD
Revelation 14:6-13 (Compare with Gen.18 -Three angels visited Abraham before destruction of Sodoma)
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,and to every nation,and kindred,and tongue,and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice,Fear GOD and give glory to Him;for the hour of His Judgment is come:and worship Him that made heaven, and earth,and the sea,and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel,saying,Babylon is fallen,is fallen, that great city,because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them,saying with a loud voice,If any man worship the Beast and His image,and receive his mark in his forehead,or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH of GOD,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,and in the presence of the Lamb:
Genesis 18:1-33&19:12-17&27-29
- First,the Lord appeared unto Abraham in the plains of Mamre:and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;And he lift up his eyes and looked,and,lo, three MEN stood by him:and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door,and bowed himself toward the ground,
- Soon after,Abraham offered the three MEN a delicious lunch,in fact a banquet,and stood by them under the tree,and they did eat.
- And they asked unto Abraham:Where is Sarah thy wife?I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life;and,lo,Sarah thy wife shall have a son
- The Lord also said:Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do? they rose up from thence and looked toward Sodom:Abraham asked: Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ( 1 Cor. 15:20-22).
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 14:1-5
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
As I mentioned in earlier postings; the firstfruits originated with Christ Himself being lifted up; those who rose from the dead (a sort of gleaning) in Matthew 27:53. Then there is the Rapture where the church appears in Revelation 5 (although firstfruits isn't in that text) and finally the 144,000 mentioned as firstfruits in Rev. 14. It would seem that in this case those of Jewish descent would be the focus here. There is a new song shared here along with the church in Revelation 5. It would seem the 144,000 come after the midpoint of the Tribulation.
This mark will be freely taken, it will not be disguised and whoever takes it will know what they are doing, like you said who will you worship?
In Revelation 13:11-18 the second beast/the false prophet is the one who makes an image of the first beast, and forces people to receive this mark, and if not, they are killed. The mark of the beast is said to be diverse things, a literal mark, a computer chip, symbols, and more, something like this was done in the past.
It may be like the Decian persecution in 250 AD under Emperor Decius. The decree ordered sacrifices had to be performed in the presence of a Roman magistrate, it was a signed and witnessed certificate, issued to that effect. People had to perform a sacrifice to the Roman gods/image, or idol for the well-being of the Emperor. A great number of Christians were put to death for refusing to perform the sacrifices.
Many others apostatized (falling away) and performed the ceremonies, and others went into hiding. This picture language appears to identify those who had given either mental assent or extended the right hand of fellowship to this evil conglomerate power. These compromisers thus were able to prosper economically. By way of contrast, those who did not receive the mark were unable to go into the marketplaces and hence suffered hardship, illustrated in the form of economic deprivation.
Something like this could be the mark of the beast although I believe it will be an actual mark. Like the ones in the past who gave in and took the certificate so they would not be killed, one will give up eternal life for a few years in this corrupt world. If we are living when this starts, we must stand strong in our faith regardless of what we face, God will give us the strength.
God bless,
RLW
Why do you assume the beast in Revelation is satan or the anti-christ?
Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH beast shall be the FORTH KINGDOM on earth ....
John the Baptist came preaching the KINGDOM of GOD; the FORTH kingdom on earth, the FORTH BEAST, the last kingdom on earth.
The Kingdom of God has been on earth now for about 2000 years; CHRIST IN THE FLESH, IN YOU, his BODY, causing man TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 I WILL put MY SPIRIT IN YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes and TO KEEP my judgements and DO THEM
Revelation 6:7 And when HE (the lamb of God) had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the FORTH BEAST (the lamb of God, the kingdom of God) SAY, come and see
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and his name that sat on him WAS DEATH, and the grave followed after him, and POWER WAS GIVEN TO THEM (the image of the BEAST, the kingdom of GOD) over the forth part of the earth, to KILL with the SWORD (the word of God), and with HUNGER (no bread of life), and with DEATH, and with the BEAST of the EARTH (those that carry the mark of the BEAST: the kingdom of God.
Revelation 12:16 And the earth HELPED the WOMAN, and the earth OPENED her MOUTH (DEATH and the grave), and swallowed up the FLOOD (people, tongues and nations) which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Psalms 7:13 He hath also prepared for him the INSTRUMENTS of DEATH; he ORDAINED his ARROWS against the persecutors.
Jeremiah 51:29 THOU (those that carry the MARK) are my battle axe and WEAPONS of WAR (arrows, the word of GOD); for with THEE (the saints, the BODY of Christ, the IMAGE of the BEAST) WILL I break in pieces the NATIONS, and with THEE will I destroy kingdoms.
Revelation 2:27 ...to him that overcometh, WILL I give POWER over the NATIONS .....
God Bless You!
666 refers in sequence body spirit and soul which is short of 777. The beast whose authority came from the dragon had no use for the word of God. So his body, spirit and soul were equally marked as condemned. The dragon in Re.13 has seven heads because he is the son of God gone rogue. But his 10 horns indicate he is under the wrath which explains the Decalogue. So whoever rejects the word of God is marked 666 and belongs to Satan. God shall not judge but has left all judgment to the Son. So till the Great White Throne the number 666 stays.
In Re.16 we have a hint from the Spirit that Satan, anti-christ and the beast are in agreement: "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet./For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, "(vv.13-14)
But what you said about the DNA is not correct. One's DNA is not altered by a vaccine anymore that by the meat or other foods we eat. The nourishment of food is broken down and goes into every cell of our body. So we should not fear our DNA being changed against God's will for how each person's DNA is unique to them. God is able to preserve our bodily integrity down to the DNA, even to the amino acid molecules that make up the DNA and to the atoms that make up the elements that constitute our bodies.
I praise God for we are fearfully and wonderfully made!
It cannot have anything to do with the covid shot. Even the childhood vaccines have aborted DNA debris in them and this too adds someone's DNA into your body and your stem cells readily take the DNA into them.
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
May I ask, How can one it be tormented if there is no awareness?
Revelation 14:9-11.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be TORMENTED with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: AND THEY HAVE NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
And can they have no rest day and night if they are without awareness?
To torment means to torture: - pain toil torment toss vex.
How can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth as mentioned in many verses?
I have to agree with Gigi.
God bless
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
When we die do we automatically get to go to heaven or do we have to wait until the resurrection?
MountHoreb Reply: I personally can't recall at the moment Jesus giving any details
regarding The Apostles quick resurrection.
But We do have evidence of Jesus Resurrection Luke 24:46. when he died he was on the earth as an
invisible spirit Acts 1:3. Jesus as an invisible spirit ( john 4:24) has the ability to materialize into a human
Luke 24:3,5; Acts 1:9-11 . All angels Can transform themselves Luke 24:4; Luke 24:36
We also have an example of Apostle Stephen who was stoned by the infuriated High Priest.
he knew it meant his death for speaking the truth. notice what he said at Acts 7:54-60;
We have proof that Stephen appealed (prayed) to Jesus in Heaven Acts 7:59.
To no disappointment: Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) Only selected or Chosen a few
to go to heaven according to Revelation 14:1,3. notice the scripture said "from Earth" (redeemed or taken from)
Not all are picked as presidents only one is. and there are those selected under him. Revelation 20:4,6
HOPE THE SCRIPTURES ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION: Psalm 37
It would appear from Revelation 14:14 that the 144,000 standing on the heavenly Mt. Zion are indeed translated. There is no mention as with the multitude of being martyred.
Technically; there is no proof that the 144,000 aren't scattered throughout the earth rather than just in Israel. There would certainly seem to be a connection between them and the 2 prophets as they will be able to control the plagues of weather on the earth which would of course affect whatever region or area the 144,000 are ministering in.
One thing I neglected in the last posting is the fact that there is no mention of the 144,000 evangelizing to the multitude. If they do that sort of ministry; it is clear that their preservation from the plagues of God will make them stand out; as well as their exemplary character during the time of unrestrained sin. (see Revelation 7). The type of plagues and timing must be close with them and the 2 Prophets; some overlap may be present between the first and second half of the Tribulation where their ministry occurs. Sequentially; it appears they start before the Trumpet judgments and exit at the time of the sixth trumpet around when the prophets die and are resurrected (see Revelation 11:13-14).
The warnings in Matthew 24 about persecution; martyrdom; wars; etc. have a preliminary fulfillment at least for the Apostles ending around AD 70. It would seem the same pattern fits in with today and those final witnesses in Israel. Deuteronomy 4:30-31 seems to show how God will respond in the last days during the Tribulation; again only for those Israelites who truly repent. Many will no doubt follow Antichrist to their own demise.
According to Genesis 4:15; a mark set upon Cain was to cause vengeance to anyone who would attempt to take his life. Compare this to the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 and we find some interesting parallels.
First; Satan was a "murderer from the beginning." ( John 8:44). It is no surprise that the first child of Adam was to be attacked after Adam and Eve fell. Having failed the test of God he let temptation rule over him and slayed Abel his brother. Satan is also said to steal and destroy ( John 10:10) along with his lying. We see the progeny of Adam and Eve being destroyed; along with stealing from the parents being able to give an inheritance and Abel receiving it.
Later on in Genesis 4:24 Lamech tries to gain vengeance by his declaration of seventy times seventy for himself for his own violent actions. Kind of like the opposite of forgiveness for the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
The apparent resurrection of Antichrist from a deadly wound as well as being able to kill the two prophets that tormented men will inspire him to declare indestructibility as well as being able to effectively fight against God. He will likely convince men that he can live forever by merging with AI; and likely the DNA of the Nephilim or something to that affect will be part of that plan; as it was in Genesis 6 when all the descendants of men were destroyed for that reason (see Genesis 6:8-9 on Noah being perfect in his generations). Hence at that time we saw no repentance except for Noah; his wife; his 3 sons and their wives.
Whatever the case men will be unredeemable once they take the mark ( Revelation 14:9 and other passages). That will be the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where people willingly reject the truth and believe The Lie.
The verse on those who dwell on the earth ( Revelation 11:10; also see Revelation 6:10 and other passages) indicates the sea of lost humanity. Revelation 13:8 concludes this for all unsaved.
Matthew 13:24-30 (with the parable's interpretation given in vv 36-43). The Sower is the Lord Who planted His Seed (which brought forth His children) in His field (the Church, His Body). But the enemy (Satan) also has his way & planted his seed (of unregenerate & evil hearts) amongst the good seed. If this was the world spoken of & not the Church, then identification between the good & evil would be easy. Of course, as they grew together, they appeared the same, until the tares showed their true color. Using Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15-17, those tares that could be easily seen amongst them can be exposed for who they are, but often they can't be seen until Christ's examination, judgement, & removal. The believers will be gathered by the reapers at the harvest unto Him & the imposters burned with fire. Given that this parable was spoken amongst the Jews, there could be application to those who were righteous under the Law ("children of the kingdom") & the unrighteous amongst them.
Revelation 14:14-20, the Reaper is the Lord (v16) and the angel who had the sickle did the gathering. What was reaped & what was gathered? "..the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are ripe". These are not the tares in Matthew, but are shown as being slashed off the vine, & that at their crushing, their juice (as blood) came out in volumes as a result of Christ's Judgement; maybe at that great final battle when the enemies of Christ are slaughtered ( Revelation 19:17-21).
The parable of the wheat & the tares is for "the end of this world" ( Matthew 13:40), not post-trib, nor pre-trib. So I don't read this parable as you do & in comparing it with Revelation 14.
As for God's Wrath, I agree that it is poured out because of the wickedness of unbelievers & for unbelievers only. But the matter that we discussed earlier was, 'is the Great Tribulation synonymous with God's Wrath, or merely a greater outpouring of horrors that comes on the whole world?' I shared that the Great Tribulation appears to be God's Wrath (as shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 11 & beyond) & we read this in Revelation 6:17 & Revelation 15:1, which fall upon men over a long period of time. And if it be God's Wrath from the time that His Restrainer is removed & the anti-Christ is revealed, then the Church (the true children of God) are snatched away before this time of torment.
Anyway Tammy, I see that our differences largely depend on the definition of these biblical terms & the verses that support them - hence the nature of the pre or post trib position are both valid depending on how we define these terms with their Scriptures. GBU.
But you've directed my reading to Revelation chapter 14, in which you see "that the saints will be here for the event of the mark of the beast, and after that event, Jesus returns for the harvest". From Revelation 14:6, we read of an angel arriving in the heavens with "the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth". And then further down in verses 12 & 13, we read of "the patience of the saintsthat keep the commandments of God". I assume that these are the verses that convinces you that all believers (saints) will still be here, i.e. the Church pre- & during the Great Tribulation. Yet, if we take the angelic presentation of the Gospel (obviously not needed for the Church, but for the unbelievers at that time of anti-Christ's reign), then maybe the saints of verse 12 are those who were converted through the delivered Gospel, the Lord giving these others opportunity to repent & believe, who may already have taken the beast's mark, and to be saved. Just a thought.
And finally, verses 14 to 20 show the harvesting of the Earth. But who are harvested? In my reading, the harvest is directed to the haters & rejecters of God & are forthwith cast into "the great winepress of the wrath of God" (verse 20). Now, even if the order of events may seem unclear, at least those whom the Lord is referring to, is clear. And yes, both Revelation 15:1 and Revelation 6:17 declare that these sufferings do come from God (from His Wrath) & not resulting from natural occurrences that we see at present; that this time IS God's Wrath being poured out & not something felt at the end. So will the present Church be saved from this Wrath?
Part 2.
Continuing with just a few of the Day of the Lord verses.
Zephaniah 1:15
Isaiah 13:9
Lamentations 2:1
Isaiah 13:13
Isaiah 51:22
Jeremiah 25:15
Revelation 16:19
Revelation 14:10
Revelation 16:1
Isaiah 63:1-6.
This is what Paul is telling them is not at hand. This is what we all agree on besides a few that the Church will not see.
However some see the Rapture in Revelation 20:4-6 sadly mistaking it for the Resurrection.
That would place the Church on the Earth during the wrath of the Lord that comes upon all the Earth.
When we take 2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;
Paul gives them the sequence of events in chronological order of what happens "AFTER" that what he reminded them of previously in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
That's why he opens up saying "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by "OUR" gathering together unto him," 2 Thessalonians 2:1.
Paul included them and himself in this gathering! So did they see the son of perdition? No.
We take 2 Thessalonians 2:3 with the following scriptures to pitch our viewpoint. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-15.
The son of perdition can't come while the light bearers is in the world. The Church! Who sits in the midst of the Church? Christ/His Holyspirit.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-8.
God bless.
GiGi,
Matthew 24:14 says, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." There are churches out there that say that Jesus would have come by now had the church been doing its job, because once the whole world is reached for Christ, then He is going to come. I've heard people actually say this.
But during the tribulation, there will not be a need for the church to be out spreading the gospel message. If I remember correctly, I believe in one of your posts you had mentioned to someone that if the church is gone during the tribulation, how are people going to be reached with the gospel message? Those were not your exact words but something of that sort.
Well, in the book of Revelation, it tells us how the world is going to be reached. It tells us that there will be 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, that are sealed by God so that they cannot be killed. No one can harm them. They are Jewish believers, and I believe that they will be evangelists during the tribulation period, 144,000 of them.
Secondly, there will be an angel flying in mid-heaven, according to Revelation Chapter 14:6-7. It says that there will be an angel flying in mid-heaven for 3 years. And Revelation 14:6 tells us that he reaches every single person on the earth with the gospel, everybody!
And then in Revelation 11:3-13, there are two witnesses that are witnessing in the streets of Jerusalem, and the whole world sees them. Our technology today makes that possible. So, everyone will be reached before His second coming. God Himself will fulfill that promise.
Lord willing, I will finish this up with one more post, I promise!
I agree Jimbob, our early Church teaching would normally have great influence on what we believe today (I first went to a Fellowship that preached almost weekly on Christ's coming/rapture, & the Pastor often said of himself, 'I won't see death because the Lord's coming is so near'). And we believed him & waited patiently for the Lord Jesus. He left this Earth over thirty years ago & still no rapture, so clearly his hope was certain but his assessment of the world's events & God's Timing were incorrect. So there's error to be noted. I believe that when I was saved much later in October 1979 (in my mid-20s), & then had a yearning to apply myself wholly to the reading & study of God's Word (even leaving paid employment to do this for six months), I had to also 'attempt' to cancel out what I was taught, but learn Truths from the Bible itself & then re-introduce those earlier teachings if I could now see them clearly in the Word. So, what I've written earlier to you in support of my belief is largely from the Scriptures I've considered & not from earlier exposure to this doctrine (in fact, some of these Scriptures weren't even addressed, if I remember correctly).
So, to your three questions:
a. I don't see Revelation 14:14-16 ("harvesting") as that of the Church's rapture. 'Jesus thrust in His sickle & the earth was reaped'. Then two angels appear (one with a sickle, the other having "power over fire"). Clearly, these angels were engaged with gathering the "clusters of the vine of the earth" to be cast into the "winepress of the wrath of God" (this might allude to the battle at Megiddo). So what happened when Jesus cast in His sickle? When the earth was "reaped", what took place? The possible answer is in Revelation 14:13, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth..." (from henceforth). This is not the Church, but those who are martyred under & following (henceforth) from the beast's reign. I don't see a rapture in this passage.