Revelation
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Revelation 7:1-4 AND 9-12, says:
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living GOD: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our GOD in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (These sealed 144K of each tribe of Israel are the remnant saved of the condemnation and eternal perdition- Luke 3:7 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12, among countless other biblical references).
On the other hand:
-verses 9-12 combined with Revelation 19:6-10
9 I beheld, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped GOD,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and Glory, and Wisdom, and Thanksgiving, and Honour, and Power, and Might, be unto our GOD for ever and ever. Amen.
Momsage, the question is:
Who are the great multitude, which no man can number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stand before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands? And they cry with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Yes, who are them, Momsage?
According to GOD's Word,what needs to happen first?Exactly what is written in Revelation 18:1-5,i.e. the Judgment of the Great Whore.
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven,having great power;and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried(will cry)mightily with a strong voice,saying,Babylon the great is fallen,is fallen, ...
Then, just after the fall of Babylon as above quoted, the marriage of the Lamb will be celebrated, yes, the marriage of the Lamb comes and the wife of the Lamb makes herself ready, yeah, the Bride makes herself ready for this wonderful event, Hallelujah! And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:1-10
1 And AFTER these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and Glory, and Honour, and Power, unto the Lord our GOD:
2 For true and righteous are His Judgments: for He hath Judged the Great Whore(AS ABOVE DESCRIBED), which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped GOD that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. ( Revelation 11:15-18 also describe this celestial Event)
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our GOD, all ye His servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord GOD Omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen,clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Get ready
King James Version
5Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in theLord.
I believe that Christ offered himself for a sacrifice for burnt offerings, and peace offerings .
Revelation 19:6
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
God was once considered by Israel as 'Baali' (Owner), though the LORD longed that Israel would turn away from idolatry & turn back to Him, their Husband (Ishi). How that relationship with Israel pans out post-Cross is difficult to say, for the Scriptures are clear that only those who 'call upon the Lord (Jesus) will be saved' ( Romans 10:13) - and these people are those who call the LORD, their Heavenly Father, even as He is the Father of Jesus Christ, and we in Him, His Body, the Church.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a FLOOD after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the FLOOD which the dragon cast out of his mouth.( See Revelation 13:11 combined with Revelation 16:13-15. And Get ready)
17 And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.(that is the Spirit of prophecy- Revelation 19:10)
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle (by allegory, the OLD and New Testaments- Revelation 11:3), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent(the red Dragon). ---> (By the way, JESUS said for the Devil: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of GOD". The Word is GOD- John 1:1. The Words that came from the MOUTH of GOD are written in the Bible, you know?)
Was Satan, the MAN of sin, son of perdition, born?(2Thes.2:3-4) Yes, he was, of course, decades ago.
(baptistboard.co - (Baptist Christian Forums )
Get ready, yeah, get ready
I agree also that these are separate events.
In Revelation 19:9 we see the marriage supper of the Lamb.
In verse 11-16 We the second coming where Christ comes to make war.
If this was the rapture of the saints, who is it that was present at the marriage supper of the Lamb in verse 9 if we hadn't been raptured yet?
In other words, he would have to come get us before we can attend the wedding!
Thanks and God bless you.
That is my understanding also. I believe that 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 is speaking of the rapture, whereas Revelation Chapter 19 is speaking about the 2nd coming of Christ.
I see this as two separate events (Rapture & 2nd coming). My belief is that we will be at the marriage supper of the lamb during the tribulation, and after the 7-year tribulation is complete, then the Lord will return (2nd coming), and we come back with him.
Revelation 19:14 tells us that the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses (that would be us), clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Clothed in fine linen, white and clean. We see this mentioned in Revelation 19:8 which says, "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:"
The word white is the word bright. Clean and white: for fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
So we, as His bride, we will be clothed in white, fine linen. And notice that this is all taking place in heaven. We are there. The tribulation is still taking place on earth while we are at the marriage supper with Christ prior to His 2nd coming.
Something else I notice is that at the rapture, Christ does not come all the way to the earth. We meet Him in the air. But at His 2nd coming, He will physically touch down onto the Mount of Olives.
Blessings to you!
( Revelation 19:11) "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a WHITE HORSE; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make WAR."
That was the verse I was referring to.
the "clouds" that is referred to in Rev.1:7, I am beginning to think it is an army/cavalry like I 1st suggested.
( Revelation 1:7) "Behold, he ((cometh WITH clouds)); and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
( Zephaniah 1:14-15 KJV) "That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of ((clouds)) and thick darkness,"
( 2 Thessalonians 1:7) "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven ((WITH his mighty angels)),"
( Revelation 19:14 KJV) "And the ((armies)) which were in heaven followed him upon ((white horses)), clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
God bless.
7...MINE HOUSE shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8The Lord GOD,which gathers the outcasts of Israel says,Yet will I gather others to him,beside those that are gathered unto him.
9All ye BEASTS OF THE FIELD,COME TO DEVOUR,yea,all ye beasts in the forest-(((beasts in FOREST?Ps.37:15)))-->
((( Revelation 19:17-18 say:-->17And I saw an angel((archangel?))standing in the SUN((Rev.12:1-2&5));and he cried with a loud voice,saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven,Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great GOD;18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings,and the flesh of captains,and the flesh of mighty men,and the flesh of horses,and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men,both free and bond,both small and great-(((Rev.6:14-17)))
10His watchmen are blind:they are all ignorant,they are all DUMB DOGS,they cannot bark;sleeping,lying down,loving to slumber.
11Yea,they are GREEDY DOGS which can never have enough,and THEY ARE SHEPHERDS that cannot understand:they all look to their own way,every one for his gain,from his quarter.
12Come ye,say they,I will fetch wine,and we will fill ourselves with strong drink;and to morrow shall be as this day,and much more abundant(greater,much more).
Rev.22:15-For without are DOGS,and sorcerers,and whoremongers,and murderers,and idolaters,and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
Ph.3:2-Beware of DOGS...
2Cor.11:12-15
12But what I do,that I will do,that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion;that wherein they glory,they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles,deceitful workers,transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel;for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers(MINISTERS OF SATAN)also be transformed as ministers of righteousness (preachers of the Word of GOD);whose end shall be according to their works.
Be careful or then get ready
1 Thessalonians 5:2
"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."
1 Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (7 years in Heaven and in Revelation 19:11-21 Christ returns with His Saints and the Angels)
Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Matthew 5:12
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Grace and Salvation and the Holy Spirit will remain. The Body of Christ is he who hinders, God said the Holy Spirit will abide with thee forever. Zech 14:16-21 speaks of those that are left, without the mark or and who did not worship the image will serve year to year.
Isaiah 19:23-25
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried (will cry) mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church.Yes, the birthplace or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately. 1John 2:19- They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:but they went out,
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven,and GOD hath remembered her iniquities.
Just after the fall of Babylon the marriage of the Lamb will be celebrated, yes, the marriage of the Lamb comes and the wife of the Lamb will make herself ready,the Bride will make herself ready for this wonderful event,Hallelujah! And to her was granted that she be arrayed in fine linen,clean and white:for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON- Revelation 19:1-10
1-I heard a great voice of much people in heaven,saying,Alleluia; Salvation,and Glory,and Honour,and Power,unto the Lord our GOD:
2 For true and righteous are His Judgments: for He hath Judged the Great Whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
Get ready
I have in other posts described why the Rapture is going to occur. It fulfills scriptures such as Malachi 3:16 in the book of remembrance of those who OFTEN talk about the Lord and it is to reward those who patiently wait for His coming ( James 1:12 and other supporting text). My commentary also discussed how it is for the reunion of all the saints; past and present at the Lord's feet; and for us to be presented in the church as "kings and priests" who will rule and reign with Him ( Rev. 5:10). We are the armies of heaven who will eventually return with Christ in Revelation 19:14; and be accompanied by angels as well.
Psalm 40:3 shows how many shall see and fear us being lifted up from the miry clay (verses 1-2). The provoking of the Jews to jealousy ( Romans 11:14) perhaps will occur when the times of the Gentiles are full ( Romans 11:25). In any event the time of Jacob's trouble is specifically for the week of testing for seven years ( Jeremiah 30:7; Daniel 9:26-27) which is also known as Daniel's 70th week.
Let us assume for a moment that the Rapture IS going to happen before the end of this year for instance. How many are ready for His coming? How many have their garments unspotted and unwrinkled ( Eph. 5:27). I have mentioned before that whether people believe the Rapture is Pretribulation or some other later date; it is the fruit of our lives that is most important. A theoretical concept won't keep those away who are true servants of the Master; but I guarantee those who are espousing a PreTrib Rapture but whose lives are not according to His will will by and large be shocked in many cases being left behind. Whether all these people never believed inthe first place or the Rapture is a reward issue; surely a great multitude will be saved but die as martyrs in the Tribulation ( Rev. 7:9). That is the purpose for the Tribulation for God's children; along with gathering the unregenerate for destruction.
Revelation 19:5-9
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our GOD, all ye His servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord GOD omnipotent reigneth( Revelation 11:15 to 18. Take a look).
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed IN FINE LINEN, CLEAN AND WHITE: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of GOD.
Revelation 11:12-13
12 And they (the two candlestlicks /two Churches-Gentile and Jewish Church)heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud (like JESUS- Acts 1:9-11-Take a look); and their ENEMIES beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake(Resurrection???), and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the GOD of heaven.
1Thes. 4:15-16 ->15 We say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Daniel 12:12- Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.(Oh yes, blessed is he that waiteth,and cometh to the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, unspeakable day, the day 1.335, Hallelujah!!!, by the way, 45 days after the period of 1290 days- Daniel 12:11.
GOD BLESS. Get ready
Revelation is all about the revealing of Jesus Christ, his creation become the exactness of himself, Christ. All accomplished by the WORKS of the cross of Christ.
It's hidden in symbols; as you study Mosses and the Prophets, those symbols are explained; yet, often they are explained by another symbol, keep studying, Christ will reveal himself to you, you will come to understand you died with Christ on his cross, YOU and Christ arose TOGETHER, a marriage, you BECAME ONE.
The entire word of God is about the kingdom of God, a kingdom of priest and gods, the IMAGE of their high priest, Jesus Christ, they are going to judge the nations with Christ.
Joshua 22:22 The LORD GOD of gods, the LORD GOD of gods ......
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Mosses, see I HAVE MADE THEE (Mosses) a god to Pharaoh ....
God made Mosses a god to JUDGE Pharaoh...... this is going to happen again ..... this time no Canaanites will be left in the land
Zachariah 14:21 Yea, every POT (we are the pot; the body, Christ the potter) in Jerusalem and in Judah SHALL BE HOLINESS unto the Lord of host: and all they ( Revelation 19:9) that sacrifice shall come and take of them (the pots of Christ), and SEETH THEREIN (be judged) in that day there shall be NO MORE CANAANITE.
Zachariah 12:8 ... and the house of David shall be as God, and the angel of the Lord before them ........
Psalms 126:6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious SEED, shall doubtless COME AGAIN with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.
Revelation 21:26 And they (the pots of God, the body of Christ) shall bring the glory and the honour OF THE NATIONS into it.
The saints are going to Judge the earth, ALL JUDGEMENT was given to CHrist; you cannot be a judge and NOT BELIEVE, you were made ONE with Christ by his resurrection.
God Bless YOU!
You were given your MANTLE at the RESURRECTION of YOU and Christ; TOGETHER, you were joined together as ONE by his resurrection,you are now the bride of Christ, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone, the NEW CREATION
You are know at the marriage supper of the LAMB, you FLESH (your carnal mind) is being DESTROYED by the TRUTH of God's word.
Revelation 19:9 Blessed are those that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb .....
Revelation 19:18 That ye (those called to the marriage supper) may EAT the FLESH of mighty men..... the carnal mind that against the TRUTH of God's word.
Isaiah 9:20 ...they (the carnal minded) shall EAT EVERY MAN the FLESH of his own RIGHT ARM ......
The ANOINTING IN YOU will teach you ALL THINGS ---- 1 John 2:27 -----
God Bless YOU!
Universalism! It's TRUTH. I'll do a quick overview to try to explain it. God will one day SAVE all His creatures, even the demons. Why you ask, actually why is easy because He is God and God is GOOD! How, is the more pertinent question. I'll start off by using the same scripture God opened my eyes with, Isaiah 45:23, and confirmed again in Romans 14:11. God has NEVER said a frivolous thing, ever! And if a person came up to us and said,"I have bowed my knee to God and confessed to Christ!" We, as messengers of truth would have to say, "Amen, welcome brother/sister!" The Key is Truthfulness, if this is done in Truth then it is done and has been done since The Cross of Christ. Therefore, we Understand that God said that He will bring it about, thus, if He brings it about then we can be SURE that it was done in TRUTH.
I'll try to answer as many questions as possible, the first was from Bro Dan and an astute point was made, namely, " Most will be to late, as it will be after they are dead, and standing before Jesus on Judgement Day." To this I point to, Psalms 139:7-12 and Romans 8:35-39. Proof that Nothing can stand in the way of God Almighty! I'll reveal another revelation that refutes the doctrine of demons, hell is NOT Eternal! Revelation 20:13-14 confirms this and we can see that those in hell will be Called before The White Throne of Judgment. This is important because we go there to see if our name is in The Lamb's Book of Life, the FACT that people that were in hell are there is Awesome because do you know who won't be there? Revelation 20:10-13. Notice how these are cast into the lake of fire BEFORE we are go to The Great White Throne. Can you see who else will not be there because they are Already judged? Revelation 19:20, them that receive the mark of the beast.
Revelation 19:14 states: "and the armies in heaven, clothed in [b]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses".
Revelation 2:26-27 says 26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."
Perhaps a reminder of the exhortation of 1 John 2:10 is needed at this point. "He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him." The next verse states the opposite state of a soul who hates his brother; that is being in darkness. We are adopted sons and daughters ( Ephesians 1:5 and many other verses) and part of something vastly bigger than ourselves. If we are saved we are no longer our own ( 1 Cor. 6:19) and bought with a price. Therefore our commission and omission of transgressions affects not only us but others in our midst as well; particularly true in regard to the body of Christ. Salvation itself; therefore in order to be genuine begins to give the true convert a sense of being "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:6). That verse shows how we are in that state together as well in the Body of Christ not just as individuals.
What matters to those who the Godhead dwells ( John 14:23) is the Lord's concerns. Note that keeping God's Word is a part of the verse indicating those who are truly possessed by the Holy Ghost. God gets all the glory and does all the work; but we are responsible to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phillipians 2:12) demonstrating our inner heart through our outer actions and works. The persevering is part of God's work of sanctification; but of course we need to be demonstrating good works predestined for us to do from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 2:10).
Agape
Who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth- John 3:31. Your earthly and devilish verbiage and chatter is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? By the way, be sure that your satanic spiritual guide( 2Corinthians 11:12-15) will be cast down into the bottomless pit from now on, day by day, understand?- Revelation 20:3.
Furthermore, the LAST and main partner of your spiritual guide according Genesis 3:1-, he will be elected soon, that is the LAST Beast to be elected- Revelation 13:1- called Vicarivs Filii Dei, a filii of Devil; he will be cast into the lake of fire - Revelation 19:19-20 - burning with brimstone by the Power of the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD-self-executable- , understand? including their followers, those which he deceived(have been deceived) and received (have received) the mark of the Beast, and they worshipp the Beast making a signal of CROSS- CROSS is CURSE - with right HAND completing the satanic sign on FOREHEAD-AS WAS PROPHESIED- Revelation 13:16- combined with Isaiah 44:20.
These will be cast alive into the hell's fire from now on- 2 Peter 3:7 combined withn Revelation 19:19-20, even in this LORD's Day, in this seventh and last Day, that is the seventh and last millennium, the current millennium, THE MILLENNIUM OF CHRIST, according the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Get ready, for Revelation 21:8 will LITERALLY be fulfilled: "the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Get ready
One of the most if not the greatest warnings from JESUS for exactly these current days is Matthew 25:6: -> 6 And at midnight(isn't it a NEW TURN turn of GOD's Day, 2Peter 3:8?) there was a cry made; Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.
Are you really going although your lamp is trimming? By the way, the beginning of sorrows is already running- Matthew 24:3-8.
The bridegroom will came very soon and the door will be shut, therefore, those which are ready will go in with Him to the marriage- Revelation 19:7-9 , take a look. The door will be shut for ever.
By the way, all GOD's people must remember Acts 1:11 - Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same JESUS, which is taken up from you into heaven(into the 3rd heaven), shall so COME IN LIKE MANNER as ye have seen Him go into heaven(3rd heaven, that is the next world- Luke 20:35-36. Take a look). JESUS was on Mount called Olivet in the day when He was taken up, right? It was around year 33AD and now shall COME in like manner, right? after two Days, right? Hosea 6:2-3 and John 2:19-Take a look- , and the SAME CLOUD that received Him will again be there in His return, understand? For better understand, compare with Matt.17:5 and Isaiah 4:5.
What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? The Word says: Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan.12:v.12 - Yeah, day 1335, the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day 1.335. Hallelujaaah!!! It means: 45 days after the period of 1290 days. Get ready you all as JESUS WARNED: Matt. 25: 6-13.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection, now, and for ever.
Amen
Pt 1
I haven't fully followed this thread but I do know the belief of the participants because of previous pass discussions.
Getting down to the root of where this thread has turned based on this topic.
The question is "Are there a place of torment that unbelievers go and are they conscious while tormented?
"I believe so" though you and Jema has presented a good argument in this difficult topic.
I also struggled with this in the past, taking those various scriptures alone.
However, when we consider the incomprehensible holiness of God and the incomprehensible wickedness of flesh deprived of God's Spirit where there is no repentance, I believe that God's everlasting punishment is justified.
CAN WE TRULY KNOW THE STATE OF MAN'S FALLEN CONDITION IN THIS FALLEN WORLD?
Can a ungenerated heart repent?
Note: Man can change his action, but can he change his heart, apart from the spirit of God?
I believe we find the answer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
I believe this verse speaks of the Holyspirit restraining evil in the world showing God's patience until there is a certain number reached and God is going to say. Go get them!
This is a view I presented a few months ago and was constantly attacked by some while I was on vacation in the dispensationalism discussion.
Anyway, you see the condition of man's heart after the rapture when man take up war against the Lord in Revelation 19:19.
Also, the unrepentant heart is revealed in Revelation 16:10-11 "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Man's heart is in a state of everlasting rebellion against God-
Revelation 19:1
all to Him
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16 John 12:49 John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30 John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
God bless,
RLW
I have been reading and studying the Scriptures you have posted, I will touch on a few, by the way, great work. Again, I know my understanding may be different and I do not want to offend, I do thank you for this discussion.
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." This life came from the Father,
My understanding of this, it is part of John's prolog to his gospel as John writes, "In the beginning" is the beginning of Jesus's ministry, not before creation. Mark used it in Mark 1:1 also in Luke 1:2 and John uses it again in 1 John 1:1 "From the beginning" he is again talking about the beginning of Jesus's ministry, "the Word of life" which was the eternal life from the Father, John 5:26. This life is that light that shined and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Jesus the true only begotten Son of God, who came out from the Father John 16:27. He was sent by the Father, Galatians 4:4 from the glory of the Father, the same matter, and divinity as the Father, and the Word was made flesh, born of a virgin and walked among us. We see in Revelation 19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Full of unfailing love and obedience to the Father, God was manifested in Him on earth 1 John 1:2 1 John 4:2 1 John 4:9. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Will study more of your posts and reply, if you want to continue the conversation, I understand your time is tight.
God bless,
RLW
A beautiful scripture!
Part 5.
Who is God? - His Nature
We know certain things to be true of God for one reason: in His mercy He has condescended to reveal some of His qualities to us. God is spirit, by nature intangible ( John 4:24). God is One, but He exists as three Persons-God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 3:16-17). God is infinite ( 1 Timothy 1:17), incomparable ( 2 Samuel 7:22), and unchanging ( Malachi 3:6). God exists everywhere ( Psalm 139:7-12), knows everything ( Psalm 147:5; Isaiah 40:28), and has all power and authority ( Ephesians 1; Revelation 19:6).
Who is God? - His Work
We cannot understand God apart from His works, because what God does flows from who He is. Here is an abbreviated list of God's works, past, present, and future: God created the world ( Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 42:5); He actively sustains the world ( Colossians 1:17); He is executing His eternal plan ( Ephesians 1:11) which involves the redemption of man from the curse of sin and death ( Galatians 3:13-14); He draws people to Christ ( John 6:44); He disciplines His children ( Hebrews 12:6); and He will judge the world ( Revelation 20:11-15).
Who is God? - A Relationship with Him
In the Person of the Son, God became incarnate ( John 1:14). The Son of God became the Son of Man and is therefore the "bridge" between God and man ( John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). It is only through the Son that we can have forgiveness of sins ( Ephesians 1:7), reconciliation with God ( John 15:15; Romans 5:10), and eternal salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10). In Jesus Christ "all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" ( Colossians 2:9). So, to really know who God is, all we have to do is look at Jesus.
Jerry that is much of what we know about God and that probably don't scratch the surface on GOD!
I HOPE THIS HELPS.
GOD BLESS.
Part 4.
EL-OLAM [el-oh-lahm]: "Everlasting God" ( Psalm 90:1-3) - God's nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. "From everlasting to everlasting, You are God" ( Psalm 90:2).
EL-GIBHOR [el-ghee-bohr]: "Mighty God" ( Isaiah 9:6) - the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God's enemies and rule with a rod of iron ( Revelation 19:15).
Those are just perhaps a few of the names of GOD.
Here's another article that might help.
Who is God? - The Fact
The fact of God's existence is so conspicuous, both through creation and through man's conscience, that the Bible calls the atheist a "fool" ( Psalm 14:1). Accordingly, the Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God; rather, it assumes His existence from the very beginning ( Genesis 1:1). What the Bible does is reveal the nature, character, and work of God.
Who is God? - The Definition
Thinking correctly about God is of utmost importance because a false idea about God is idolatry. In Psalm 50:21, God reproves the wicked man with this accusation: "You thought I was altogether like you." To start with, a good summary definition of God is "the Supreme Being; the Creator and Ruler of all that is; the Self-existent One who is perfect in power, goodness, and wisdom."
Who is God? - His Character
Here are some of God's characteristics as revealed in the Bible: God is just ( Acts 17:31), loving ( Ephesians 2:4-5), truthful ( John 14:6), and holy ( 1 John 1:5). God shows compassion ( 2 Corinthians 1:3), mercy ( Romans 9:15), and grace ( Romans 5:17). God judges sin ( Psalm 5:5) but also offers forgiveness ( Psalm 130:4).
See Part 5.
I am also so sorry in telling you that you are completely wrong.
Revelation 19:15KJV speaks of the one from whom the own JESUS said he has a NAME that no MAN knew, EXCEPT he himself".
Yes, EXCEPT himself, so you are twisting the own word of JESUS who testified about this one that you call as being him JESUS, erroneously.
For what do you contradict JESUS and get preaching saying the NAME of this one is JESUS?
Actually he is only likeness JESUS- Revelation 1:13-,but he is not JESUS Himself, no,absolutely. And JESUS said that this one doth Judge and make WAR, in fact he is an ambassador of the Lord- Jeremiah 49:14 and Obadiah 1:1KJV- and he bears the insignia of JESUS Himself on his garments as an ambassador of the King Of kings, and Lord Of the lords, according prophecies he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a NAME,yes, a NAME written,that is King Of Kings, and Lord Of Lords.
It is he who was with Moses in flame of fire in the Mount Sina in the name of GOD Almighty in the OT, saying to be the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob- Acts 7:32-33. Take a look. And he was with Moses until his death, and after appeared to Joshua,saying: Joshua 5:13-15
13Joshua was by Jericho,he lifted up his eyes and looked,and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his Sword drawn in his hand:and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him,Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14And he said,Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come.And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua,Loose thy shoe from off thy foot;for the place whereon thou standest is holy.And Joshua did so.
Balaam also saw this one of the Lord standing in the way, and his Sword drawn in his hand,saying:behold,I went out to withstand thee,because thy way is perverse before me.
Be careful so, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD