Discuss Revelation 20 Page 12

Do souls of the unjust actually die?

Brother Earl,

As I know your views are very spiritual and that is good. Though just on one thing I would like to bring up about "fire". I very much understand God or Christ is a consuming fire and we are tried by fire as gold. To purify us. As in 1 Corinthians 3:13. Matthew 3:11.

Though as I will show you with one verse not ALL fire, to me anyway, is Christ, the Holy Ghost, or God in essence the way you perceive. As this fire would guide us to keep us clean and pure for God's Will.

Of coarse God made fire this just showing it is not always where we want to be.

At the end of Jude. In Jude 1:23 it speaks of how we should "save with fear" some people "pulling them out of the fire". As I think you will agree I don't think it is talking about pulling anyone out of the "fire of Christ". More likely the fire spoken of in Revelation 20:15, Matthew 25:41.

Also in the book of Enoch. Here is a small portion of chapter 108: for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn.

I know you and me have gone over this before in that I think you perceive everyone "will be saved" in the end. Which I don't fully agree with but that's ok. Whatever the Will of God is, that shall be. Us being Blessed to be with the Lord Jesus Christ is a priceless treasure.



God Bless you brother Earl.

Jesse,

I have a few things for you:

1) The "last week" prophesy is split between a span of 2,000 years.

It's not 7 consecutive years, but 2 prophetic, 3.5 year segments, drawing on each other.

This is the Order:

-Jesus Christ received the first half of the week during his ministry (3.5 years), THEN,

-At the sixth trumpet antichrist receives the second half of the week (3.5 years) = 7 years total.

-At the seventh trumpet Jesus returns to rule the earth for 1,000 years.

2) ( 1 Thessalonians 17) "Being snatched away" and other like scriptures is only about the 144K, they are the only ones standing with Christ on Mount Olives ( Revelation 14:4), they are the only ones standing in front of the throne after being resurrected ( Revelation 11:11). The 144K are practically treated like Christ, because they are the bride.

( Revelation 20:4-5)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Do you see how the 144K came out of the great tribulation (saints), and the rest of the dead slept (us)? The first resurrection is solely for the first fruits, who are with Christ for 1,000 years.

3) The 144K are not Jews, they are Christians of 12 tribes; even the 3 tribes of Judah are Christians worshiping Christ. The 144K are referred to as The house of Israel (Christians), not house of Judah.

The end-time scriptures uncover the mystery of the end, tied in to the OT prophets. The Bible reveals hidden secrets, they're there for the taking. Let me know of any end-time event questions you have, I will be here to help.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Before you can understand Revelation you have to BELIEVE a few things.

Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND. You have to believe that it is relevant right this minute; that it's instructions on how our flesh is destroyed so be can inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50 ...flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God..

Revelation 1:1 ...and he sent and SIGNIFIED it...

You have to believe that most nouns represent something other than what a dictionary defines them as.

Romans 8:20 For the creature (man) was made subject to vanity....

We start life with no faithfulness to our creator (husband); therefore, we are the WHORE. We have no knowledge of the word of God; therefore, we are the false prophet, we have no love or mercy; therefore we are the BEAST. We are the only beast that buys and sells. We are flesh; therefore, we are Anti Christ (opposed to Spirit).

When Revelation is finished with us we will be the FULLNESS OF CHRIST.

Romans 8:3 ....God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh (us)...

Sinful flesh (us) was crucified with Christ; Christ arose and we arose with him.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.... they shall shall reign with him a thousand years.

You have already died to the mark you were born with (the beast) (flesh).

Revelation 13:15 ....as many as would not worship the the image of the beast (themselves and things of the flesh) should be killed.

Revelation 9:18 By these three were a third part of man killed, by FIRE, and by smoke, and by brimstone...

You were raised with Christ and now Christ lives in you.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.

You now live in the purifying fire of CHRIST where the beast and false prophet are:

Revelation 19:20.. cast alive into FIRE; cast alive into Christ.

John R Nolan,

The concept of "rapture" has no place in the Bible, it is a made up term to represent something that doesn't happen. Who do you think the 144K of the elect are, and why are they overtly and covertly placed into at least 7 chapters of Revelation? If the elects end-time future role was minimal, so would be their story line, and it's not.

Revelation 20:4-5 (right after they're taken up)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

It is the 144K, and no one else, who are resurrected, and redeemed from the great tribulation (not OT saints), who refused the beast and his mark. These saints are the only souls chosen to usher in God's plan, everyone else will sleep till the 2nd resurrection. Listen to the details of each account logically, the answers are there.

God bless.

Hi WH Hamilton. These names you see in Revelation 20:8 go all the way back to the days of Noah. As you know, Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham & Japheth. From Japheth issued sons: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, & Tiras. And Genesis 20:2-5 tell us that "By these (the sons/descendants of Japheth) were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."

Then the Word of the LORD came to Ezekiel ( Ezekiel 38:1-3): "Son of man (i.e. Ezekiel), set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him". Even though we can't be certain of the exact locations of where these people actually settled in, we can assume that they went into Europe (northern parts) & the various countries formed from these families. Therefore, this 'person' Gog, is also unknown, even though he is referred to as "the chief prince of Meshech & Tubal". These names certainly don't have any modern day counterparts, though it seems that these countries, maybe a union of them, will figure in that great battle in the Valley of Megiddo (Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39; Revelation 16:14-16; Zechariah 14:1-3; Joel 3:1,2). Some suppose that Russia is referred to here, in which case those nations around them & under her influence & power will come against Israel in that Great Day of God's Judgement.

It mentins GOG and MAGOG ,but I can not find the definition of these two words or know what they are

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

BELIEVE

Romans 8:3 For what the law COULD NOT DO, in that it was weak in the flesh, God sending his own Son, in the LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Christ; the Spirit of GOD was made in the likeness of US (sinful flesh); therefore, sinful flesh (US) was CRUCIFIED on the CROSS WITH CHRIST. Christ rose AGAIN; therefore, we also arose with him, now in LIKENESS OF CHRIST.

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man keep my saying, he shall NEVER SEE DEATH.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION .......

You DIED and now LIVE IN CHRIST AND CHRIST IN YOU; you will never die again, you will just CHANGE BODIES.

Steve, I think you may be thinking of a couple of Scripture portions here. The first one is in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39, and the other, Revelation chapter 20. You would need to read right through those chapters if you want to learn the detail of them.

In Ezekiel 38:2-4, the verses are, "Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords".

In Revelation 20:8, "And (Satan) shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

These portions speak of the future battle of Armageddon, with the Ezekiel chapters giving much more detail. The only problem however, is that to put Russia into that list of warring nations against Israel, can only be speculation, as those are very old names (Gog, Magog, Meshech & Tubal) that historians have been unable to accurately correlate to our modern nations/cities.

Brother Simon, may CHRIST IN US grace us with His wisdom and His understanding.

I agree, we can only be born again BY RESURRECTION.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be Priests of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This happens before the second judgement in Revelation 20:11-13

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die anymore...

Christ is telling the Sadducees; who did not believe in resurrection, that the ones APPOINTED TO DIE with him on his cross would never die again.

Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come; and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.

Psalms 102:20 ...to loose those APPOINTED TO DEATH

Luke 20:36 ....being the children of the resurrection.

1 Peter 4:17 For the TIME IS COME that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD.....

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose HOUSE WE ARE...

John 5:22 For the father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son.

2 Corinthians 5:10 We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ....

We were RESURRECTED with Christ and Christ is dwelling IN US; therefore, Christ's THRONE is IN US and were are BEFORE the THRONE being JUDGED NOW by Christ (the word of God).

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed (flesh), but by incorruptible, by THE WORD (SPIRIT) of God, which LIVETH and ABIDETH forever. (you will never die again after you died ONCE with Christ).

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto man ONCE TO DIE (with Christ on the cross or later at the second death), but after this then the JUDGEMENT.

Hebrews 9:28 .....and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (the first time was in the flesh; the second time in SPIRIT, you don't see him he is like a thief in the night) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

S. Spencer,

Greetings, this site has some of the best NT scripture-smiths around. NT 27 strong.

Salvation to me begins at the seventh trumpet twinkle, with the 144,000 first fruits standing on the hill with Messiah, the Christ. ( Revelation 14:3-4) Please try to account for any souls other than these who are worthy of the first fruit resurrection, lest ( Revelation 20:5)? From your study, what are 2 things Christians should know about salvation?

I'm really surprised at how little of the OT, especially the prophets, are discussed here. They're the foundation, they offer tomorrows clews: Daniel 7:8 being Ezekiel 38:14 (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey) should interest you enough to see what they're talking about.

One thing we can agree on is that we are living in the end-times of Matthew 24, yet no one talks about it.

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

I believe if there is a second death; there has to also be a first death.

Two resurrections; therefore, two deaths.

God is no respector of person; therefore, if the ones in second resurrection die (are judged) in the lake of fire; the ones in the first resurrection also die (are judged) in the lake of fire.

When Christ caused us to become one with him (CHRIST IN US) we we cast into (CHRIST) the lake of fire. To partake of the bread of life and the fountain of living water we also have to partake of the judgement of fire. As the bread and water gives us life, the fire cleanses and purifies us. We are being judged in the lake of fire (word of God) now; therefore, we want have our part in the lake of fire at the second resurrection.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:

We died with Christ on the Cross (first death). We are being judged IN CHRIST now, BY THE WORD, BY FIRE. Those appointed the second death will be judged IN CHRIST ( Hebrews 10:31), BY THE WORD, BY FIRE.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered once for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (NOW, to those in the first resurrection the second coming is NOW; we don't have to wait for the literal appearance of Christ) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

For those in the second resurrection their judgement IN CHRIST is going to last awhile. Matthew says those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit want be saved in this age or the next age. This age so far has lasted 2000 years. We don't know how long the next age will last.

I believe those in the second resurrection will be raised back in bodies of flesh. The first resurrection, glorified bodies.

Revelation 20:7 ...Satan (flesh) will be loosed out of his prison (death and the grave),

1 Corinthians 15:40 celestial (glorified); terrestrial (flesh and blood)

Thank you for your reply my brother Earl,

I very much appreciate your time. As your reply lead me to do some reading about the "resurrections". Us in Christ being part of the first resurrection having no part in the lake of fire or "second death". Revelation 20:6.

As our Lord Jesus Christ being raised from the dead is our confirmation that there shall be a resurrection of our actual physical bodies. Acts 17:24-31.

In that the second resurrection is for all the people quoted in Revelation 21:8 as you stated. Those who are not with Christ.

As you have stated before "all shall worship God" with Scripture of it. As it is detailed in the Book of Enoch this is also correct though it shall not save them. From the second death or the lake of fire.

62.5 And one half of them will look at the other, and they will be terrified, and will cast down their faces, and pain will take hold of them when they see that Son of a woman sitting on the throne of His Glory.

62.6 And the mighty kings, and all those who possess the earth, will praise and bless and exalt Him who rules everything that is hidden.

62.7 For from the beginning that Son of Man was hidden, and the Most High kept Him in the presence of His power, and revealed Him only to the chosen.

62.9 And all the mighty kings, and the exalted, and those who rule the dry ground, will fall down before Him, on their faces, and worship; and they will set their hopes on that Son of Man, and will entreat Him, and will petition for mercy from Him.

62.10 But the Lord of Spirits will then so press them that they will hasten to go out from before Him, and their faces will be filled with shame, and the darkness will grow deeper on their faces.

Do you agree with these Scriptures?

As I also just want to be clear in what you believe the "second death" is. That this is where those souls/spirits will be separated from God, and us, for eternity? Or something else?

Thank you brother Earl.

Page 2.

Re: the Lake of Fire. It is prepared for the Devil & his angels ( Matthew 25:41) but is also the place where all Christ-rejecters go to in the final judgement ( Revelation 20:10-15) & particularly verse 15, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." And that includes not only the Devil & his angels but also the anti-Christ, the false prophet & all mankind that were not found in the Book of Life.

"Who created such a place?" I would say that God has done this. "Who does "the torturing in hell?" No one - it is a place of continual fire where the act of dying is continual but death that is longed for never comes ( Mark 9:43-48).

And these are not parables by Jesus; Jesus is telling us what lies beyond the grave. And that is why Jesus came to die on our behalf: that we might be spared God's Judgement to enjoy new life on Earth & then eternity in His Presence. As I mentioned before, if just dying & returning to dust was our punishment, the Gospel would be practically meaningless, as we all have to die & enter into such a state of 'oblivion'. But Jesus says that some will awake to "the resurrection of life & some to the resurrection of damnation" ( John 5:29). There is no permanent middle ground at the graveside - we all have to go somewhere else - and that's why the Gospel is so special & precious: it saves a person entirely, both in this life and the next.

Hi Richard,

I agree there is a hell. I believe it because the bible says it!

To teach otherwise can be dangerous, It sounds similar to Satan discrediting Gods word when Satan deceived Eve.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4.

And here's scriptural proof they don't just cease from existing.

1st of all the resurrection, and the term we know as the 2nd death.

Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a RESURRECTION of the dead, ( both of the just and UNJUST. )

What's the point in raising the unjust just to send them right back to the grave?

Matthew 25:41, 46 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:...42..43..44..

...And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT:

but the righteous into life eternal.

Hell was created for the devil and his angels but his children will go there also, and to take note,

YOU CAN'T WEEP AND NASH TEETH IF YOU NO LONGER EXIST, NEITHER CAN YOU ENDURE EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.

Matthew 13:42-43. AND SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE: ""THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Revelation 20:14-15. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the Second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

HERE IT SEEMS TO BE A RELOCATION, AND DEATH ( AND HELL IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!! )

When the restrainer is taken out of the way

( Thes 2:7 )

you see how evil men really is. War against God ect.

Revelation 16:9. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

They'll be just like their father the Devil.

No repentance. Forever tormented.

The scripture is clear.

GB.

Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I DON'T BELIEVE the scriptures can contradict themselves.

There are hundreds of places in the scriptures that say ALL will worship GOD.

They can not worship God if they are in Hell.



In Ezekiel 5 and Zachariah 13 it says a third will be brought through the fire; Revelation 9:18 says a third are killed by fire, smoke and brimstone. These have to be the same third as in Ezekiel and Zachariah because verse 20 says the rest repented not. This same third is the ones in Revelation 8.

Revelation 19 The whole chapter is about the ones called to the marriage supper. Before we can come to the supper we have to be cleansed. We are cast into the lake of fire (vs 20). We have our flesh destroyed (vs 21). God is no respector of persons. Have we ever been fearful, unbelieving, liars. Revelation 21:8 says all these will have their part in the lake of fire. Did not Christ have victory over DEATH AND THE GRAVE Revelation 20:14 says DEATH AND THE GRAVE were destroyed by the lake of fire.

I BELIEVE ALL THINGS HAVE AN APPOINTED TIME

Ecclesiastes 3

I believe ALL things are by the will of God; good and bad. His will is always carried out by man; but THE WORKS ARE OF GOD. Therefore GOD will have mercy on ALL; but in HIS appointed TIME.

Jeremiah 2:19 Thine own wickedness shall CORRECT THEE ......

Jeremiah 46:28 ......but I will not make a full end of thee, but CORRECT THEE in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly UNPUNISHED.

Psalms 94:10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall he not CORRECT? ......

FOR MEDITATION: If the damned have a natural body at their resurrection; literal fire will kill them in a few seconds. If they are resurrected with a glorified body: literal fire can't hurt them.

SPIRITUAL FIRE CAN hurt both; natural and glorified.

Linda, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I AGREE AND BELIEVE everything Jesse said in his comment to you. I will expand MY BELIEF a little more.

I BELIEVE that Christ; with the elect, are and will judge the world (Satan's kingdom that Christ took back at HIS resurrection). ( Matthew 4:8-9) ( Revelation 11:15) ( 1 Corinthians 6:2) ( 1 Peter 4:17)

I BELIEVE the parable of the workers; those called to work in God's vineyard, are the elect. Those called in the first hour are the apostles and others that took part in Pentecost. Since that first hour other workers have been called; till the present hour. Ourselves now being judged by the word of God; by our brothers before us, they being ONE IN CHRIST; have also become THE WORD, the BOOKS. ( Revelation 20:12) ( Revelation 20:4)

Matthew 19:28

Romans 11:31-32

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Son of God.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF ALSO shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Revelation 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me. thou must PROPHECY AGAIN before many peoples, and nations,and tongues,and kings.

I BELIEVE at the departure of this body we will be given THE FULLNESS OF GOD; which also will be HIS BODY, OMNIPRESENT able to judge others as he now judges us.

THE FIRST RESURRECTION: The seventh trumpet resurrection happens in the twinkling of an eye. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-52) Judgment for these resurrected Christians takes place in the space between the seventh trumpet and before the twinkling, rather simultaneously.

The 144,000 out of great tribulation are judged ( Revelation 20:4) and made whole. These are the elect only, no others. Resurrection scriptures were tailored for the elect, of the great tribulation, who rise first.

The resurrection accounts of the 144,000 are on record, and their numbers add up: "10,000 x 10,000 = 100,000 + thousands and thousands" is another way of saying 144,000. ( Revelation 7:9 [that's them]) ...a great multitude...in white robes...out of the great tribulation. ( Revelation 11:12)

( Revelation 5:11) And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.

( Revelation 7:13-14) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes (fifth seal brethren) and whence came they?....they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes...

It makes sense for the 144,000 to rule the world with Christ for the 1,000 years. Then bring up the balance for the new heaven and new earth.

For resurrection perspective, the current world population is 7.8 billion people.

Conservatively speaking, 25 billion Christians have lived since the first century AD.

If these 25 billion dead in Christ are resurrected at the last trumpet, where will they go?

25 billion (physically) are not sustainable, suggesting that the first fruits are a small body of the core church. Many will remain asleep.

THE SECOND RESURRECTION: God's balance of 108 billion souls will come to the table. ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) The new earth & new heaven will accommodate all.

satan's spiritual relationship with antichrist parallels that of God to Jesus.

-God's Spirit is counterfeited by satan spirit

-Jesus' Spirit is counterfeited by antichrist spirit

-Holy Ghost is counterfeited by the false prophet spirit

1) Jesus's ministry was 42 months

To: ( Revelation 13:5) antichrist receives 42 months

2) ( Revelation 1:8)

To ( Revelation 17:8)

3) ( Revelation 5:6)

To: ( Revelation 13:3)

The three evil spirits that God had stricken us with, to prove us, are gone. ( Revelation 16:13) ( Revelation 19:20) ( Revelation 20:10). It is the dragon (satan) the boss that gets locked up for 1,000 years..

Below is conclusive "mirroring" evidence of the spirit world hierarchy:

( Daniel 8:24) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

"but not by his own power" as that power comes from the dragon, given from God.

( Revelation 13:2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

"the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority". satan gives power to antichrist, antichrist is the son of satan, but antichrist is not satan. antichrist is under the possession of satan.

( Titus 2:13) Many scriptures point to Jesus being God, but this hierarchy evidence can't be overlooked. Jesus told his adversaries all along who he was, but they didn't have the wherewithal to grasp it, Jesus continually said His power was not of His own, but of the Father. The theologians argue this paradox out to contention.

( John 5:19) ...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do....

( John 12:49) For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me....

Brother Richard, may the SPIRIT grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

YES I do believe that in the ages to come ALL WILL BE IN CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject to him who put ALL THINGS under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

A good portion of the scriptures is prophecy; as is:

Psalms 22:26 The meek shall eat (my flesh and drink my blood; which is the word of God) and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek(s) him (we praise him because he seeks us; we don't seek him), your heart shall live forever (eternal life being resurrected with him; Revelation 20:5-6).

Psalms 22:27 ALL the ENDS OF THE WORLD SHALL REMEMBER AND TURN UNTO THE LORD: and ALL the kindreds of the nations SHALL WORSHIP BEFORE THEE.

Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S (accomplished at his death and resurrection; Revelation 11:15,): and he is the governor among the nations.

Psalms 22:29 And they (firstborn, children of HIS resurrection) that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they (the ones not raised with him at HIS resurrection) that go down to the dust (awaiting the second resurrection) SHALL BOW BEFORE HIM: and NONE can keep alive his own soul.

Psalms 22:30 A seed (firstborn) shall serve him; it (seed or the firstborn) shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation (the age of the firstborn or the age of the church).

Psalms 22:31 They (Firstborn, Elect, Saints) shall come (in the next ages), and shall declare HIS righteousness unto a people (those raised in the second resurrection) THAT SHALL BE BORN, that HE hath done this.

The shadow in the old testament is the feast of weeks (feast of firstfruits) and the feast of the ingathering (final harvest).

Brother Earl,

I very much enjoy reading your posts. Thank you kindly for your replies. It is a Blessing to be able to converse with you on things like this.

First I will start by saying exactly what shall happen is all up to God, and His Will, as you know. In reality I don't believe any of us can perceive how deep the thoughts, and plans, of God truly are. One day when we return to Him, after our physical death, then we shall know things not known in earth. Ecclesiastes 12:7.

As I'm still not positive if that you perceive ALL to be saved in the end but that's what I think.

If it is God's will that all shall be saved then I'm all for that. For His Will shall be done and whatever that is is what I want also. Though I have so many Scriptures that pertain to things like "the unsaved being cast into eternal damnation, it being better that Judas Iscariot was not even born, things of Heaven(which I believe to be the Spiritual Kingdom of God), our names written in the book of Life, that not everyone's name shall be written in this book, etc." Also of things like you stated how the wisdom of God shall fill the earth. Habakkuk 2:14.

I believe, from my aspect, that all have the choice and chance to be saved by God. His mercy and forgiveness is everlasting. No matter what we have done in our lives. Though it doesn't seem all choose that path or will be with the Lord for eternity. As even angels have sinned and turned against God.

I will just post all the Scriptures I have that I see these things in. As no man taught me about the Lord. God lead me to Jesus Christ who saved me.

About Judas Matthew 26:24.

Not all making it to Heaven Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, Matthew 13:37-43, Matthew 13:47-50, Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:7-8, Revelation 22:14-15, 2 Peter 2:1-9, 2 Peter 2:17,

Heaven Matthew 25:31-34, 2 Timothy 4:6-8, Philippians 3:20-21, 2 Timothy 4:6-8, 2 Timothy 4:18.

2 Peter 1:20. May the Lord bring us closer together.

God Bless.

Hi Jesse, I'd like to offer a different perspective on your comment:

>"So a doer of the word in my understanding doesn't mean that I take my bible and go out and do it"

If the good Samaritan followed this advice he would not have stopped to help the injured man. Luke 10:25-37 Maybe he would have walked on by because he already knew who he was in his own mind, and didn't want to risk being 'legalistic' or obedient, as if that's a bad thing. Reminds me of a Pharisee- who felt self-righteous but didn't have good deeds as fruit that show their faith in action.

Matt 25:40 comes to mind: "...as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

The push to not be obedient or do good works seems contradictory to this verse: James 1:22 and so many others throughout the Bible - would God tell us we don't need to obey Him and to not do what He says, or would someone else be behind this? Who is the most likely source that tells us that being good is bad and doing bad is good?

Matthew 25 and basically most of Jesus' parables were about the same thing: being prepared, because a day will come and we will be separated and judged and accountable for our actions. The foolish virgins were unprepared and did nothing. The bag of gold parable Jesus called the one who did nothing but hid the gold "wicked and slothful." Jesus said about the ones who did nothing (no works) to help others sent them to hell: Matt 25:44-46

Jesus also said about obedience: John 14:15.

To anyone claiming good deeds and works is 'bad' notice that the Bible is full of instruction to do good deeds and works. One would have to ignore nearly the entire Bible in order to come to such a conclusion. If our actions didn't' matter then the Bible wouldn't have continually said it DOES matter and we will literally be judged for it. We are saved by grace, we don't earn heaven, but Christianity is a verb = action.

2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12, Gal 5:13, Matthew 10:42

Rev robert, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 14

Revelation 15

Revelation 16

This is the work of CHRIST DEATH on the cross and the work of HIS RESURRECTION and the battle ( Revelation 16:14) we are caused to fight to come to this TRUTH IN CHRIST. Being fulfilled for the last 2000 years as the Fathers draws us to CHRIST and CHRIST gives us HIS UNDERSTANDING to overcome. ASK HIM he will cause you to understand; but it HIS time frame. We have been in the day of the Lord now for 2000 years. He is harvesting HIS FRUITS as they become first ripe (firstfruits) ( Revelation 14:14-20) ( Matthew 20:1-16)

When the sixth seal was opened ( Revelation 6:12) Christ was crucified; prophecy of ( Joel 2:31). The old testament saints and the children of the resurrection were raised with him ( Isaiah 26:19),( Revelation 20:5-6) and ( Matthew 27:52-53). The old testament saints were sealed with the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ ( 1 Timothy 6:16)( Revelation 7:3-8). There was silence in heaven for one half hour ( Revelation 8:1) between the sixth and seventh seal. This is the 45 days between Christ resurrection and pentecost ( Daniel 12:11-12) 1335 days minus 1290 days. No one could enter into the temple (into Christ) until the seven plagues were pour out on Christ (he took God's wrath for us). now we can be ONE IN CHRIST ( Revelation 15:6-8). The four living creatures before the throne ( Revelation 4:6-8) is all creation. God made a covenant with Noah that they would never be destroyed again ( Genesis 9:9-12) man, cattle, beast and fowl. ( Ezekiel 1:10) ( Revelation 4:7). ALL CREATION will worship God. The lake of fire is how Christ cleanses and purifies us.

Hebrews 12:29

Luke 12:49-50

Matthew 3:11-12

Isaiah 9:5

Isaiah 4:3-4

Malachai 3:2-3

Ezekiel 20:46-49

1 Corinthians 3:15

S Spencer, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The Spirit has revealed to you HIS truth in your reply to Karen. The promise was the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (immortal life by Christ); but this was not possible without RESURRECTION; therefore, we and the saints of the old testament also became partakers of HIS RESURRECTION.

Hebrews 11:39-40

Isaiah 26:19

Revelation 20:5-6

Matthew 27:52-53

Revelation 7 they were sealed with the Holy Spirit and His immortal body

1 Timothy 6:16

"for in the day thou eatest thereof thereof thou shall surely die" Genesis 2:16-17

"by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men" Romans 5:12

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?..." 1 Corinthians 6:9

"But your iniquities have separated between you and you God" Isaiah 59:2

"the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:4

"shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Revelation 21:8

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" Revelation 20:14-15

"For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16

"And all things are lf God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ...To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

"Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" John 1:17

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ" Ephesians 2:13

"and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Revelation 1:5

"the veil of the temple was rent in twain from top to bottom" Matthew 27:51

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" Ephesians 1:7

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:14-15

"But God commendeth his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8

"And of his fulness have all received, and grace for grace" John 1:16

Davie Miller, regarding Revelation 20:14. I think you are accurate when you say, you die and you cease to exist, it's as though you never existed. God is a Holy, Just Merciful God. After the judgement, God will bring forward the second death, which is eternal.

Page 2.

Jesus needed to live a normal human existence, identifying in every way with His people, with their sufferings, their joys, hopes, doubts, sicknesses, etc. And He could only do this if He came as a Babe, growing up as a young man & fulfilling the Will of God in life & death. ( Hebrews 2:16-18). And even though the people saw Him only as the son of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 13:55,56), they should have known the Scriptures that spoke of His coming ( Isaiah 7:14; Daniel 9:24-26; Isaiah chaps 52 & 53; Zechariah 9:9, 12:10; & many others).

To your other questions: "what was Christ's victory over?" Ultimately, He was victorious over death & hell; by implication: over sin's penalty & over Satan's power to all who believed. 2 Timothy 1:10; 1 Corinthians 15:25,26 & Revelation 20:14.

And "how did He achieve this victory?" Only by the Cross. What seemed to the world & to Satan as the final death blow to Jesus to be rid of Him, in fact became the very means of salvation to all who would believe on Him. Jesus' resurrection was God's glorious proclamation of His acceptance that sin's price was now fully paid & that all who put their trust in Him would be cleansed by Jesus' Blood, justified, accepted & glorified ( Romans 8:30).

The sheep are being separated from the goats, the wheat from the tares. Keep steadfast in your faith my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Matthew 13:37-43 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 25:31-34 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Lezbeth, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 22:16 I JESUS have sent my angel to testify unto you (you are the church) these things (that are revealed; by Revelation) in the CHURCHES....

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him (Christ), to show unto his servants (Christ's inheritance; Psalms 2:8) things which much SHORTLY (during your lifetime) come to pass......

1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE....

Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ......

Christ has given you HIS FAITH

Revelation 2:26 And he (you; the church) that overcomes and keeps MY WORKS (remember he gives us HIS faith, His truth, His wisdom, His understanding, His council, everything that is HIS he gives to us as our inheritance; we are his children) unto the END (when you leave this body of flesh at it's death; now he is going to give you HIS BODY; HIS incorruptible and immortal self ( 1 Timothy 6:16)......

Revelation 20:5-6 .... This is the FIRST resurrection.

(vs 6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection....

Remember he gives us what is HIS; he gives us HIS RESURRECTION. ( John 11:25)

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE, together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE...

This is the rapture of the church (you) individually not collectively.

Isaiah 27:12 ...ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE....

Mathew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now we are THE BODY OF CHRIST.....

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours (THROUGH THE WORKS OF CHRIST)

Lizbeth, May the Spirit grace you with His wisdom and His understanding.

Revelations 22:16 I JESUS SENT mine angel to testify unto you (you are the CHURCH) these things in the CHURCHES......

There might be a reason there is no mention of the rapture.

Do you think the un-called study God's word.

1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE.........

Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED (not by the law) but by THE FAITH OF CHRIST (by him), and not the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Jesus GIVES you HIS FAITH

Revelation 2:26 And he (the church) that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS (remember it's his faith, his wisdom, his truth, his understanding, EVERYTHING HE IS becomes yours through inheritance, you are his child) unto the end (when you depart this body of flesh and are given HIS BODY; (HIS) incorruptible and immortality self becomes yours....

This is the rapture of the church (you) each one individually not collectively.

Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day...... ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE...

Matthew 24:40 There shall be two in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

Revelation 20:5-6 .... this is the first resurrection.

(vs 5) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.....

Remember he gives you what is his; therefore he gives us his resurrection.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE....