Revelation
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Revelation 20:12-15.
PART ( 1)
My question in regard to verse
Revelation 20:12
How many books were opened?
Where is the reference to sins we have committed?
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Malachi 3:18
"Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."
I understand that the scriptures in
Malachi 3:16 and Matt. 25:33- refers to the RIGHT HAND PEOPLE.
Malachi 3:16
"Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name."King James Version (KJV)
They to whom he promised this reward mentioned in Matt. 25:34
Matthew 25:33
. "another book was opened which is the book of life," refers to the those who are judged by their works that
Jesus named in this Scripture:
"shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Matthew 25:34
"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
(1) God will judge on what is written in those books. Including his Word to us by the Prophets and His Son. Our High Priest, Jesus Christ.
(2) GOD's judgement is based o
Your post is illuminating. The preconception of the meaning of a word makes the difference in how we hear the word of God. Where our mind goes when we hear the word works matters. When we see or hear that word, do we only see the works of the law? It becomes a scotoma, and we fail to see the true meaning of what Scripture, like the book of James, is saying. We all have preconceived ideas imprinted in our minds that we would benefit from taking a big broom and sweeping our minds clean.
Works are, as you refer to them, works of faith that produce fruit we are supposed to be doing and on which we will be judged. We see how many times Jesus spoke of the importance of producing fruit, and we should also not ignore the warnings about not producing fruit.
We see that mankind will be judged according to their works, whether they are good or evil. Many understand this is only for the lost, but is it?
Revelation 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Thank you,
God bless,
RLW
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
Revelation 14:11
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
Revelation 20:10
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Blessings
e. (cont'd). This judgement for believers would be some time after our death or at the rapture (the snatching away) of those in Christ.
f. The Bible doesn't speak of the judgement of animals, as animals are outside the scope of sin, the sin nature, and God's Commands. The fact that some animals can be quite ferocious and suffer ills as we do, is simply because of the effects of sin that has permeated all of creation. Humans made in God's Image, though we're now horribly marred, are the ones in desperate need for forgiveness & redemption. But in that coming day, when the new heavens & Earth are created, all of God's creation will be pure & holy - Satan & his devils bound for eternity.
g. As stated earlier, all sins are despicable to God & worthy of punishment. And that punishment is hell, or more specifically, the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10-15). All sinners, whether the most evil & violent among them or even those who have done some wrong in their lives (& that's all of us), or even those who have shown disdain to the salvation of God, all these will suffer in hell. Only two ways for mankind to go: Matthew 7:13,14, the narrow (strait) gate leading to eternal life, or the wide gate to eternal destruction - no middle ground (or gate).
Hope I've answered your questions, though briefly. People read & understand the Bible in different ways. As you read it prayerfully, allow the Holy Spirit to reveal all that you need to understand & act upon. Blessings.
Regarding the return of Jesus, I only see in Scripture that He returns once. As seen in 1 Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28, John 14:3, Acts 1:11, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Hebrews 9:28, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 19:11-21, through Revelation 20:1-6, is the same event when Jesus returns, and it occurs after the tribulation of the beast. My understanding is that there is only one Day of the Lord, and that is when Jesus returns.
Regarding the Messiah, I have never asked a Jew about their understanding of it. What I have previously read about Jewish faith is that one day a charismatic Jewish leader, the anointed of God, a man with the characteristics of God, a direct descendant of the Davidic line, will gather Jews from around the world, and bring them back to the Land of Israel and restore the kingdom ridding them of all oppressors.
That was what they were looking for during the time Jesus was here during His 3.5-year ministry, a human conqueror. The disciples were looking for Him to set up the kingdom; they even asked Him after He was resurrected, Acts 1:6-7. They were looking for what we see will happen in the millennium when Jesus returns to earth.
It was mainly the leaders of Jerusalem who did not see or did not hear, which caused blindness in part to happen to Israel, who rejected Jesus; many accepted Jesus as the Messiah while He was here. The leaders of Jerusalem played a prominent role in turning the crowds against Jesus, and it was the nation of Israel as a whole that rejected Him. And today, most Jews do not believe the Messiah has come.
I know we may not agree, but I hope I answered your question.
God bless,
RLW
Revelation 20:11 - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Remember, they tried to get away. They tried to hide in the rocks. They even called out to the rocks and the mountains saying fall on us, so we don't have to face Him. But there was no place to hide!
Revelation 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: Notice plural.
And another book was opened. So, we've got at least three. Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Right now, there are no believers in Hades. They were released with the Lord's message to them. After He died on the cross for them, He descended into the lower parts of the earth. And all the believers that were in that part of Hades, Abraham's Bosom, they were taken with Christ.
But the non-believers were left there. And that's where the non-believers go today, until the end of the thousand-year reign of Christ. And then they will be resurrected, the sea will give up its dead, the earth will give up its dead, and then they'll stand before Christ, and the books will be opened. And they will be judged, every man according to their works.
And even death and hell, it's kind of like emptying out the compartments. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. So, both Hades, and hell itself will be gone, poured into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
We saw this earlier on in Revelation that all people who reject Christ, they will be in torment day and night forever and ever. And there is a teaching going around now that says that a God of love would not put people in torment, and that once you die, you die. You just cease to exist. And they say that hell is not a place of torment.
But the bible is very specific in its detail as to what hell (the lake of fire) is really like. Also, in Matthew Chapter 24, Jesus said that hell was prepared for Satan and his angels, not for people.
But people go there for two reasons. Number one is that Satan is the spiritual force in which they serve. And secondly, they don't want to be in heaven. Most people do not take that into consideration, is that there are people who are in hell that are there, and they're not happy about it, but they only have one other choice, and they don't want to be there either. Well, they're stuck!
It's sort of like here on earth. People live miserable destructive lives as the consequence for their sins, but they won't surrender to Christ, have the burden taken off their back, and make peace with God. They want to keep sinning. They just don't like the consequences of their sin. But they won't surrender to Christ.
So, fire comes down and devours them. And the devil is cast in the lake of fire with the beast and the prophet. And they're tormented day and night forever and ever.
In Verses 11 to 15, we have the vision of the Great White Throne Judgment:
Revelation 20:6 - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power. Yes, there are two deaths. There's physical death, and there's spiritual death.
There's an old saying that says that a believer is somebody who has been born twice but dies once. You're physically born, and you're spiritually born. And when you physically die, that will be the only death you will experience because you'll be with Christ forever.
The non-believer is somebody who is born once but dies twice. They die in death here, and then they are resurrected and put in the lake of fire for the second death.
So blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:8 - And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, meaning the entire earth.
I believe I shared this in the past, but Gog and Magog, we call it May-gog in English, but in the Greek, it is pronounced Mah-gog. Gog is the word that the Jews use for all people who are the enemies of Israel. All enemies of Israel are called Gog. This is all taken from imagery in Ezekiel Chapters 38 and 39. In that picture, as it is here, the kings of the east will come through the dried-up Euphrates River and attack God's people.
Magog is the god, or idol of Gog. So, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. We're talking millions.
Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So, if you reject the mark of the beast, if you are persuaded by the angelic preaching of the gospel, and the gospel of the 144,000, you will be beheaded, but you'll be with Christ.
Revelation 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
All unbelievers who die still have not been resurrected. They will be resurrected after the thousand years. This is the first resurrection. So, the resurrection of the saints, the collecting of Christ, that we call the rapture, when the dead are raised first, and we are raised with them, that is the first resurrection.
There is a second resurrection, and that is when the unbelieving dead are raised after the thousand-year reign of Christ.
Revelation 20:3 Continued
In Luke Chapter 16, where we see the rich man and Lazarus, you remember they both died, Lazarus was a poor man, and the rich man wound up in hell, in torments. I use the word hell because the English text does, but it's different from the lake of fire. That word hell is Hades. Hades means the place of unseen spirits.
Before Christ came, if you were a believer, you went to one compartment in Hades. It's called Abraham's Bosom. People were waiting there for their salvation to come. But there's another compartment in Hades that was called the place of torment.
So, the rich man was in a place of torment. And he looks over and sees Lazarus in the Bosom of Abraham across this chasm. You couldn't cross back and forth. And the rich man calls out to Abraham and says, "Have Lazarus dip his finger in some water, and come over and touch my tongue because I'm tormented in this flame."
After reading this story so many times, you have to think to yourself that if you were in hell and had just one wish, what would you want it to be? "I just want a glass of water." You've got to be kidding! You want your tongue touched because you're in torment? How about a rope to get you out of there. He didn't want out!
The reason he didn't want out was not because of the comparison between hell and heaven. It's because there's only one other place to be other than hell, and that's in the presence of Jesus Christ. And for some people that's hell. They would prefer to be in hell, only comforted. They don't want to be with Christ. They are rejecters. And once a person's heart is a rejecter of Christ, you can't do anything about it.
Even living under perfect conditions, they still go back to serving Satan again.
Revelation 20:3 Continued
So, to Him, not much time has passed. But, when God is on the earth, He's subject to earth time and earth measurements as we'll see soon. We're going to measure the city, and it will be the measurement of man. So, they are very quick to tell you that once we get down on the earth and we start dealing with the earth time-space factor, a thousand years down here is a thousand years. If it was up in heaven, it would be as one day.
I hope I am giving a proper and understandable explanation. It's giving us the time difference between heaven and earth. But Christ in on earth for a thousand years. That's earth time, even though to God in His time frame where He dwells now, a thousand years is as one day, and one day is as a thousand years.
So, Satan will be bound for a thousand years. And Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit, the ABUSSO, and shut up, a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more. And after these things, it is necessary for him to be loosed for a short season.
After the thousand years, we leave with Christ. And the people on the earth who are left over from the tribulation, who still are not saved, but they've been given this one-thousand-year opportunity to live under the rule of Christ with Satan bound, when Satan is let loose, we will see that they will go back to Serving Satan again.
And as I have emphasized before, I think it's a tragedy, but we have to understand that when a person is a rejecter of Christ, you could send him to heaven for a thousand years and say, "Look how nice it is here," and when he comes back, he's going to reject it. Nothing's going to impress him to be saved.
Revelation 20:3 - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And cast him into the bottomless pit, that ABUSSO where the locusts came out of, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that, literally after these things, he must, and the word must means that it is necessary that he be loosed for a little season.
The debates rage on as to whether these 1,000 years known by many as the millennium, the 1,000-year reign of Christ, after His second coming, after Armageddon takes place, and the millions that are there to fight against Him are killed, He sets up His kingdom upon the earth and He rules for 1,000 years. And Satan is closed up in the pit so that he can have no more influence on people during those thousand years that the Lord reigns upon the earth.
There are many that believe that it will not literally be a thousand years, because in 2 Peter 3:8, Peter said that the reason why it seems that the Lord is taking so long to bring His judgment is because with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day. So, they take that scripture and say "Well, the Lord ruling for a thousand years, that's just symbolic of one day, because one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day!"
In order to understand the time element correctly, if you're looking at God and studying Him, and seeing Him from heaven, His time frame would be an example of a thousand years equals one day, one day a thousand years. Right now, it's been a few thousand years that the earth has existed, but with the Lord, where He is, as illustrated, it's only been a week.
Part 1
This subject has been discussed before, and I don't reply to cause debate, but in my heart, I feel it is deception that people may be looking for something that is not coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you." I would like to point out a few things that may be considered for study in pursuit of the truth. The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture? If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?
Each one of us is accountable- Romans 14:12.
There are two resurrections: the first in Revelation 19:11-21 through Revelation 20:1-5. This aligns with what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.
When Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19, and in Matthew 24, Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect. We see in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28.
When Jesus returns, the Battle of Armageddon occurs, Revelation 16:13-16, Ezekiel 39:11-22, Revelation 19:17-19, and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 19:20-21. Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, and judgment occurs for those in the first resurrection on earth, Revelation 20:4, not in heaven, then the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5-6.
I do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
See part 2
I won't say much, as this has been discussed before. "Revelation" is the Greek word "apokalupsis," which means the unveiling of that which has not been revealed before. It states that God gave this to Jesus to reveal it to His servants, and He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John.
This was not known to Jesus before God revealed it to Him, just like the day when Jesus will return has not yet been revealed. All the signs and wonderful and horrifying things that John saw were said and shown to him by this angel. Just like the burning bush and Moses, it was an angel of the Lord ( Exodus 3:2).
I understand you and many on this site believe Jesus is God, but if He is, why would God have to give this to Jesus? Scripture tells us we must believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for us and paid the penalty for sin. As in Revelation 1:17-18 it is said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
God is eternal and cannot die. Jesus did. After God raised Jesus from the dead, making Him the first begotten of the dead, God placed Him above all that is in heaven, earth, and under the earth. Jesus did not have full authority of the throne until He was resurrected. We see something similar with what Pharaoh did with Joseph in Genesis 41:38-44.
Scripture tells us Jesus will reign until all enemies are under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28. We see this in Revelation 20:14, when death and the grave, the last enemy, are cast into the lake of fire. Then the new heaven and new earth, when the new city Jerusalem is placed on the new earth.
Sorry, brother, I know we differ, but I was compelled to reply, I hope you understand. Thank you for all you do.
God bless,
RLW
Part 6
Trust and dependence on the Son of God, believing in His sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection, Romans 5:8-10. Titus 1:2 states that God has promised eternal life to us from before creation, but it is our future hope in Jesus through faith, as seen in Romans 1:16. This hope has been established for us in Jesus before time; this hope is eternal life. It is not seen or enjoyed now; that is not hope, Romans 8:24-25.
Is Jesus praying for just the disciples or also future believers? This was determined before the foundation of the world, as we see in John 14:3, and Paul confirms it in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. We will see the glory of Christ that the Father has given Him when He returns to establish the kingdom.
Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, and salvation was part of God's plan. The word " chose, " from the Greek word eklego, means to pick out for oneself, to choose, elect, or select. God's plan and purpose for humanity was for us to have eternal life in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:19-20 explains that Jesus, through His obedience to the Father and His sinless life as a lamb without blemish and spot, shed His blood for us. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The word " foreordained " is derived from the Greek word proginosko, meaning to know beforehand, representing the foreknowledge of God, a plan manifested in the last times for us. Various verses refer to the foundation of the world, meaning from the creation of the earth and humanity.
Matthew 25:34 speaks of the glory in God's plan, in the mind of God, encompassing all things from beginning to end, something we as humans cannot fully comprehend. We see the culmination of this verse in Revelation 20:11-15.
See part 7.
Part 2
The Bible consistently indicates that souls can die and cease to exist. For example, Matthew 10:28, it mentions that the soul can be destroyed, implying it is not immortal. The Greek word translated as soul is psuche, which has several meanings, including the vital breath, the breath of life, the human soul, the soul as the seat of affections and will, consciousness, a human person. Essentially, it includes who we are, and is inseparable.
This does not happen until we are resurrected, when Jesus Christ returns, it is a gift of God, Romans 2:5-7. Immortality is not given until the resurrection from the dead, only then will we be absent from this flesh and blood body and present with the Lord, Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-6. The Bible never describes the soul of man as immortal or eternal. We die and are buried mortal, dead in corruption, and we will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. Every part of us is mortal, and we must put on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.
The spirit: The spirit is the breath of life given to us by God, in Luke 25:46 Jesus said to His Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. In Acts 7:59, Stephen said Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. The spirit empowers us to experience God's profound love, it is through the spirit that we are empowered to live according to the ways of God, embracing righteousness and walking in His ways, in God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, rather than walking in the ways of the world.
Our spirit is how we communicate with God, Job 32:8, Proverbs 20:27, John 4:24, 1 Corinthians 2:10-12. God inspires or motivates us by stirring up the spirit in a person, 1 Chronicles 5:25-26. God inspired King Cyrus to issue a decree, allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem, Ezra 1:1.
See part 3
Part 4
Many people interpret Luke 16:19-31, the story of the rich man and Lazarus, as a literal account rather than a parable. However, in Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10, Jesus explicitly states that He spoke to others in parables. We must consider the entirety of Scripture when evaluating this story, as I have referenced only a few relevant passages.
If this story were literal, it would imply that individuals receive their rewards immediately after death. This notion contradicts the rewards are given after the resurrection, as indicated in Revelation 22:12, Luke 14:13-14, 2 Timothy 4:8, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, along with what we see in Revelation 20:4.
What was the purpose of this story? Is it our choices, what we have faith in, God, or do we crave wealth, or do we have faith, and charity, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13. This story shows the rich man rich in worldly things, but poor in morality, and Lazarus the opposite. This story also points to Jesus' death and resurrection, Luke 16:31. We see that is what happened, they still rejected Jesus after He was hung on a cross and died, put in a tomb, rose from the grave, and spoke to them for 40 days, and it did not convince them.
See part 5
Philippians 4:3
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in thebookoflife
Anyone that was not found in the book of life is in be trouble.
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in thebookoflifewas cast into the lakeoffire.
There's only one way to Heaven and that's believing the gospel of grace in Apostle Paul's epistle 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 .
Jesus Christ warns us about Him and His word .
Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shalldenyme before men, him will I alsodenybefore my Father which is in heaven.
Apostle Paul warns us about denying Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if wedenyhim, he also willdenyus:
May God Almighty in the third Heaven have mercy on us .
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Denial of the gospel of grace is cruel.
Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast intohellfire.
Where is hell now ? ?
Proverbs 15:24
The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart fromhellbeneath.
Hell was inlarged when Jesus Christ took out all the Saints in Paradise .
Luke 16:26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a greatgulffixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Apostle Paul was caught up in the spirit and saw paradise.
2 Corinthians 12:4
How that he was caught up intoparadise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Now we have to worry about death and hell being cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14
Anddeathandhellwere cast into the lake of fire. This is the seconddeath.
May we all believe that's there a hell in the center of earth where it's very hot .
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
The gospel saves us from hell
But as far as God's Love for mankind, in spite of those who hate Him & dabble in all types of wickedness or raising their fists against Him, we know from the Word that this is still the day of Salvation that is offered to them and to each one of us. While there is time, the Gospel that went out after the ascension of our Lord is still the same Gospel that goes out today - the only one that offers God's Salvation, demonstrating His Love for all. If God hates such sinnners now, then the salvation message is useless to them & they would be forever doomed. But we have no such instruction from the Bible, except that which was given to the disciples of Christ to 'go into all nations, teaching, baptizing, and to obey'. But if any would not receive them or hear them, they were to depart from there, 'shaking the dust from their sandals as a testimony against their obstinacy'.
And yet, Jesus taught an important aspect of God's Love & God loving all, in Luke 6:32, "For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them." We can easily understand this verse when we apply it ourselves, but the same principle applies to how God loves us. If God only loved those who returned their love to Him, how does that reflect on God's attitude to both the loving and unloving towards Him? We might fail in this by showing love & favor to those who are kind & loving towards us & not so (or, not so much) to those who despise us, but does God behave as we do, we who have carnal tendencies? If Jesus' Words & Life perfectly reflected His Father, then we know that God still loves all sinners.
Therefore, if we had only John 3:16 to understand the afterlife (whether it exists or not), then we could well believe that 'perish' clearly means a complete cessation of life, as in someone (the body) who perishes in a house fire or perishes by drowning. But in relation to the Scriptures, we know that God has given us a spirit & that spirit is identifies who we are, given life by God, with an outer covering (a body) to house it, yet the spirit can never perish (die). Genesis 2:7; Zechariah 12:1; Job 32:8; 1 Corinthians 2:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Ecclesiastes 3:21; Ecclesiastes 12:7.
And then we have the Judgement of God upon all, where those who belong in God's family, living a life consecrated to Him, are eternally secure from damnation, whereas all unbelievers (and their spirits can never be destroyed), suffer under God's condemnation. If only death was our final punishment for rejecting Christ, then we all still have to die as those in sinful, corrupt bodies; none can escape. This is a defective Gospel as most would prefer to cease to exist without any punishment & live life to the full, not answerable to God. But Christ's Sacrifice was to redeem lost sinful souls, not from death, but from God's eternal Punishment. Revelation 20:15; Revelation 21:8; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 13:49,50; Matthew 25:41,46; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9.
Just a few Scriptures to show the Truth of an Eternal suffering in Hell & not simply disappearing forever in the grave. Every spirit (of man) is accountable to God.
I read all your posts, thank you for continuing they are helpful, seems there have not been many discussions lately. In your part 29 every one of us shall give an account of himself and you gave a very good description of the fire we also see in 1 Corinthians 3, I had a dream about that once.
I understand many believe the white throne judgment is only for the lost and the Bema seat judgment of Christ is for all that is saved. My understanding we see those in the first resurrection and Revelation 20:4 judgment is given to those who will reign with Christ in the millennium.
There will be 1000 years and there will be those who accept Jesus and those who will not as we see when Satan is released from the bottomless pit, he goes out to deceive again and we see when they go up to and surround the camp of the saints their number is as the sands of the sea. People will die during these 1000 years.
Jesus's reign is to be until all enemies are destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 and we see that the last enemy is death, death along with the grave is cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14 and in 20:15. My understanding the second and last resurrection, those who were not in the first resurrection will be judged in the white throne judgment and whosoever was not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire, then the new heaven and the new earth.
In part 30, well done; I see these precious stones and what they are building that may be almost finished, Revelation 21:9-27 and I believe this new city is made up of each believer's stone.
Thanks again brother
God bless,
RLW
Thanks, from conversations with you I did not think you meant the first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection, that is why I said I may be wrong. I have heard, not on this site, that some say Revelation 20:5 is a spiritual resurrection. When I read what you wrote, "You've taken part in the first resurrection" my little mind went there, sorry about that.
I agree, we are on the same page, we are justified by Jesus and our judgment will not be for salvation but for what we have done after we were Justified in Christ, Colossians 2:13-14. There are different understandings of the two resurrections in Revelation but that would be for other discussions.
Thanks, brother,
God bless,
RLW
Mathew 16:24-25.
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Dying to self is part of being born again; the old self dies and the new self comes to life.
Dying to self is part of the process of sanctification.
It is both a one-time event and a lifelong process.
The rite of baptism expresses the commitment of the believer to die to the old, sinful way of life and be reborn to a new life in Christ. ( Romans 6:4-8)
Galatians 2:20 reads, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me".
Dying to self is never portrayed in Scripture as something optional in the Christian life.
IT IS THE REALITY OF THE NEW BIRTH!
We have now been Justified!
The wages of sin has been paid in full but yet you are given an EARNEST EXPECTATION TO BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption.
The creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (That's these old corrupt bodies.)
Recap.
You've been born again and you died, but yet not physically.
You've taken up your cross and is following Christ.
The process is you're dying daily!
You've been given an earnest of the Spirit and has eternal life!
You're waiting on heavenly glorified bodies.
You've been baptized in to Christ Spirit that lives and never dies.
You've taken part of the first ressurection!
This is a category which is later to be described in a sequence. Revelation 20:6.
Those raptured will be changed in the twinkling of an eye ( 1 Corinthians 15:52.)
This group is also part of the first ressurection without having to die or rise from the dead.
There is no ressurection to judge the saints!
Blessings.
There are different understandings of this, the most important thing is when we die, our destiny is fixed, either eternal life given through faith and the grace of God or the second death. S Spencer has given you good information on the judgment seat of Jesus that we see happen in Revelation 20:4 this is after Jesus returns and the battle of Armageddon and the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and Satan is locked up for the 1000 years.
You can study Revelation 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 about these events. If we have a different understanding of the white throne judgment has nothing to do with our salvation, when this white throne comes down the earth and heaven are fled away. The first resurrection will be the chosen, and faithful who will reign with Christ for the 1000 years, Revelation 20:6.
The second resurrection is the rest of the dead, Revelation 20:5 the reason for my understanding that the white throne judgment is not for just the lost is Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. To me, if some names were not in the Book of Life there were some whose names were in the Book of Life.
Another reason is Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
These verses are talking about one resurrection, not two, this is the last resurrection, and this to me points to the white throne judgment. We also have 1000 years between the two resurrections, many will live and die and those who are saved and those who are lost will be judged at this white throne judgment.
God bless,
RLW
Scripture gives us a reason not to judge one another: "For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God" ( Romans 14:10-12, ).
We (Believers) will all stand some day before the judgment seat of Christ.
The judgment seat of Christ involves a time in the future when believers will give an account of themselves to Christ so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad" ( 2 Corinthians 5:10).
(This Judgment is not forunbelievers.)
You sew an example of this in Luke 19:11-26.
Jesus taught in His parable, the king is going to return, at which time he will require an account from his servants.
The judgment seat of Christ does not determine our salvation; that matter was settled by Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. ( John 5:24)
The judgment seat of Christ is different from the Great White Throne Judgment.
That will be the final judgment of the wicked prior to their being cast into the lake of fire ( Revelation 20:11-15). This will be unbelievers.
KathyP I believe this is clearly what the Bible teaches, however some may disagree so this may lead to further discussions.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
When you say you "don't buy into this white throne narrative people are claiming," I gather that you are referring to the narrative I shared, so I felt a need to respond.
First, I want to say that I agree with you when you say that God opposes the proud, pride is before the fall, and that we must be on guard in these final days to the enemy's deceptive tricks. But please know that I am not the enemy!
Now, concerning 2 Corinthians 5:10, in context, when Paul says "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;" he is referring to all believers in Christ Jesus. If we take each verse, beginning with Verse 1, it seems pretty clear that Paul is speaking to the believers in Corinth.
If we take every single verse in context from Verse 1 leading up to Verse 10 and examine the words "we" and "us" in each of these verses, how would these verses be applicable to a person who flat out rejects Christ?
When Paul says we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, he is speaking about all believers. That's the "all" Paul is referring to. This judgment seat is called the Bema Seat judgment, and it is for believers only.
There is a difference and a gap between the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ that Paul spoke about in 2 Corinthians 5:10, and the vision of the Great White Throne judgment that was given to John in Revelation 20:11-15.
We do have a different view, but I can assure you that I'm in no way "attempting to trick anyone into avoiding moral responsibility," I don't assume that I'm in "some special VIP club," and I do not "expect VIP treatment" when I stand before God. When I stand before God, I'm going to know that I don't deserve to be there. My only hope of entering in is that He is going to see Christ in me.
We all have things to contribute to this forum. There will be disagreements from time to time, but when disagreement comes, neither side should be considered an enemy trying to deceive others.
Blessings!
As S Spencer has said this is not about salvation, through Jesus we have the gift of eternal life. Please do not be confused, the truth is in the Scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Many are looking to be taken to heaven before the great tribulation of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet.
We all will be judged Acts 17:31 Hebrews 9:27 2 Corinthians 5:10
There will be two resurrections; the first is when Jesus returns, after Satan, the beast, and the false prophet have their 3.5 years of tribulation, Revelation 13:1-5 Matthew 24:29-31 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5.
When Jesus returns with His angels, the first resurrection, the battle of Armageddon, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Satan is locked in the bottomless pit and Jesus will set up the kingdom, and those chosen, and faithful who are first resurrected will rule with Jesus, Revelation 16, 17, 18, 19. After the battle, in Revelation 20:5 we see Thrones and judgment is given to them who were in the first resurrection and given the honor to reign with Jesus during the 1000 years.
We see in Revelation 20:5-6 the rest of the dead lived not until after the 1000 years and the blessing on those who will be priests of God who will reign with Jesus in the millennium on earth, not heaven. There will be different rewards for the saved who will live in eternity with God and Jesus.
In Daniel 12:2-3 we see some will shine greater than others and also, we see those in this resurrection, there will be those who will awake to everlasting life, and some who will awake to everlasting contempt. We also see in John 5:28-29 and Matthew 25:31-46 what we see in the white throne judgment, Revelation 20:11-15 the rest of the dead, some will go into eternal life and some who are not found in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire.
There is much more to study, you should study for your conscience, we must not be deceived Matthew 24:4.
God bless,
RLW
1. **The Rapture**: The rapture refers to the event when believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is described in ** 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17**: "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."
2. **Judgment**: After the rapture, believers will face the **Bema Seat Judgment** (or Judgment Seat of Christ), where they will be evaluated for their works and faithfulness, not for salvation. This is described in ** 2 Corinthians 5:10**: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
3. **Who are Saved**: Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ. ** John 3:16** states, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior are considered saved and will be with Him.
4. **Final Judgment**: There is also a final judgment for those who are not saved, often referred to as the Great White Throne Judgment, described in ** Revelation 20:11-15**. This judgment is for those who have not accepted Christ and will result in separation from God.
In summary, after the rapture, believers will be with the Lord and will face the Bema Seat Judgment based on their works, while salvation is granted to those who have faith in Jesus Christ. If you have more questions or would like to explore this topic further, feel free to ask!
Both believers and non-believers will be judged. There is a judgment for believers, and there is a judgement for non-believers. Believers are judged at the Bema Seat judgement of Christ. Non-believers will be judged separately at the Great White Throne judgment.
So, the answer to your question is no, we (born again believers) will not be judged at the Great White Throne judgment. That is reserved for the wicked dead only. Revelation Chapter 20 speaks about the Great White Throne judgment. It seems pretty clear that all those at this judgment will be cast into the lake of fire.
Please think about this: You mentioned the rapture and as you probably are aware, this is for believers only. In 1 Thessalonians Chater 4, it tells us that the dead (In Christ) will rise from the grave. It doesn't say anything about the wicked dead rising in the rapture.
So where are the wicked dead after the rapture? While we are with Christ, they are still in Hades awaiting their final judgment which in Revelation 20:13, it says that the sea gave up the dead (wicked dead) which were in it; and death and hell (this is actually Hades, not Hell), delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Please know that these are the wicked dead, not believers. Revelation 20:14 gives us their fate. It says, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." Again, this is Hades. Right now, no believers are in Hades. They were released with the Lord's message to them.
But the non-believers were left there. And that's where the non-believers go today, until the end of the thousand-year reign of Christ, which after that they will be judged (at the Great White Throne) and cast into the lake of fire. So, this judgment (Great White Throne) cannot be for believers.
Hope this helps. God Bless!!!