Discuss Revelation 4 Page 2

Here are a few verses that might be of help to you . Isaiah chapter 11 verse 2 . Zechariah chapter 12 verse 10 and John chapter 14 verse 17 , chapter 15 verse 26 and chapter 16 verse 13 .

Tim,

It tells us that out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:

This will be the expression of God's judgment whenever He judges. We see it throughout the book of Revelation. There will be lightnings and thunderings and sounds coming out from the throne.

It says, and there were seven lamps of fire before the throne, which are the (seven spirits of God).

We see these seven spirits back in Revelation 1:4. And if we follow it through in Chapter 4, along with Revelation 5:6, it tells us that these seven spirits of God are the seven eyes of God going throughout the world.

It is the seven fold complete ministry of the Holy Spirit held by both the Jews, and of course the scripture itself teaches that.

In Zechariah Chapters 4 and 10, it also tells us that the seven lamps are the seven eyes of the Lord, the all-seeing one.

So before the throne, the seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God (The 7 eyes of God).

In Revelation 5:6, we have a Lamb that had been standing there as it had been slain, having seven horns and (seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God), sent forth into all the earth.

Daniel Chapter 7 tells us that the horns represent power and authority. And of course the eyes, again, Zechariah tells us that the Messiah has seven eyes. I don't believe it is talking about the literal eyeball.

The word seven in scripture means complete. It means that He (God) is in complete authority, and He sees everything fully and completely.

Hope this helps!

In Revelation 4 verse 5 who are the 7 spirits of God ?

In verse 5 who are the 7 spirits of God ?

Sunil Younas,

Amen, all praise, glory, and honor to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!!

There is no one like Jesus

Satisfactory

Quote From Commentary by Matthew Henry -- found on this site:

"Four-and-twenty seats around the throne, were filled with four-and-twenty elders, representing, probably, the whole church of God. Their sitting denotes honour, rest, and satisfaction; their sitting about the throne signifies nearness to God, the sight and enjoyment they have of him. They were clothed in white raiment; the imputed righteousness of the saints and their holiness: they had on their heads crowns of gold, signifying the glory they have with him."

Hi Anthony.

I just wanted to share my view on the seven Churches in Revelation ch 2 and 3.

1st. They all were local Churches.

The Revelation (Unveiling) of Jesus Christ. These letters also is to and applies to the complete Church Era.

In ch 1 vs19 we have "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

I believe that is what John did.

That is what he wrote in

Revelation 1:12-17.

In Revelation 2 and 3 he wrote about the things which are.

(What's existing) "Church Era, throughout history "

( And the things which shall be hereafter; )

Starts with Revelation 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

( And it carries on throughout the rest of the book. )

I also believe the phrase "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." suggest this is also written to us.

( He that hath an ear! )

Also "let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES." ( Plural ) suggest that all seven letters apply to all seven Churches, It's admonitory. All seven apply to all of us. And the letters lay out the history of the Church. ( In order.)

God bless.

The twelve sons of Jacob and the twelve Apostles

Who are these 24 elders written in Verse 4?

Revelation 5: Focus on the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 4:5 also discusses the seven Spirits of God along with Revelation 5:6. Apparently; Isaiah 11:2 is a commonly referred to cross reference; although technically it involves 6 ministries under the Lord Himself (as the 7th); it does fit in a sort of Menorah picture of how the Spirit operates in the entire corporate Body. We see a further description in Zechariah 4:2-3 of this source (apparently now in heaven); and the two prophets that tap into this power as witnesses throughout the earth in the end times. That can be studied further in Revelation 11.

It would seem that the seven spiritual gifts also would be in play here as to the emphasis given to a given church. This would be seen in Romans 12:6-8. In general; it seems that there are certain strengths and weaknesses that are commonplace depending on what gifts we have and that could factor into the overall situation as to the state of a congregation; what trials a particular congregation may or may not be called to suffer; doctrinal errors that creep in; etc. It is important to see the interdependence here so that the church isn't imbalanced

( 1 Cor. 12:14-16). In fact; we also see seven gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-11. It is important to differentiate between the fruit of the Spirit (love; joy; peace; longsuffering; etc) in Galatians 5:22-22 which characterizes the lives of all true believers and the particular ministries they have. We can't have one without the other. The common thread; of course is the love of God and brethren as seen in John 13:34-35; and reflected in 1 Corinthians 13 (entire chapter). Apparently; gifts can operate even with immature saints just as some could believe at one time without understanding the indwelling Holy Spirit such in Acts 19:1-4.

In conclusion; God distributes as He will or "severally" ( 1 Cor. 12:11). In obedience because we love Christ ( John 14:15) we have the right attitude to grow.

Hi Richard.

If half of the elders are from Old Testament and they are represantatives of saved people in the OT times, then this means that OT saints will take part in the rapture as well There is a debate about that (Verses Rev 5:9-10 do not hide anyhting in greek). One question though. When you say whole church do you mean people from OT as well? Because I think when we say church we mean the NT saints only. GBU

This chapter shows the abrupt shift in setting based on things that "must be hereafter" according to verse 1. John was taken up in the spirit (verse 2) to observe the throne; who sat on the throne; the 24 elders; and the sevenfold or seven Spirits of God (seven lamps of fire) burning before the throne. This would indicate the church raptured; and likely the 12 Apostles and 12 elders from the O.T. who were the sons of Abraham.

The four beasts before the throne show the continuing narrative in Ezekiel 1:5. These were and are still continually praising the Lord. The elders once again appear in verse 10 casting their crowns down and giving praise to God's attributes.

When we get to chapter 5; we see that the elders discuss being redeemed from every tribe tongue and nation (verse 9 and 10). So it would seem that they are representative of the whole church; or else a larger group was also included in the text and the way it is translated seems to hide it. I have heard that analogy; in any case clearly the reference to "kings and priests" such as represented in 1 Peter 2:9 and other scriptures makes it clear the whole victorious raptured group of saints from the church age are meant here. Other scriptures; however mention the warning of losing reward ( Rev. 3:11); and indicate crowns are rewards for specific things. Those who are raptured will recieve a crown for those eagerly looking forward to that Day ( 2 Tim. 4:8). Certainly; however those who make it in as through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15) will suffer loss; and many may not have crowns or be kings and priests during the Millennium. Those who have more fruit have bigger reward ( Luke 19:17-19); and some who hide their "talents" will lose even what they thought they had ( Luke 19:24). A similar parable shows that servant being cast into outer darkness; either the Tribulation or hell.

So we can barely enter heaven; or be a tare if not investing what He gave us and producing fruit. Food for thought!

Correction,,, Just start from the beginning of the chapter, it's fascinating how Ezekiel describes the whirlwind that came.

Yes, Chapter 1

Ezekiel Chapter 1?

Ezekiel 1:14 from there, it just gets keeps getting better!

In one of the prophets of old there is a description of what appears to be a vehicle, not of this world; I remember thinking at the time he couldn't describe it very well because he didn't understand what it was. Does anyone know to what chapter and verse I am referring?

Thanks Brother Jesse!

I knew King David establishment of the priest was associated with the 24 elders but never knew meaning. "perfection in covering." brings more clarity.

God bless you.

Hello Brother Spencer,

I also have heard of two views. Many believe the elders, who are of the church, clothed in white raiment, (the promise to believers), and have crowns of gold upon their heads, (evidence of the reward to believers). We see the white raiment in Rev. 3:5, and crowns of gold in Rev. 2:20.

Many believe this is the representation of both the OT and the NT, the entire church, both Jew and Gentile, with the elders and the 24 courses, or 24 elders that are sitting.

The book of Revelation is a piece of Jewish Literature and understood by the symbols and the presentations that we receive from the Tanak, the Old Testament. There are 404 verses in Revelation, and there are over 800 allusions and direct quotes from the OT.

So there are 24 elders sitting on 24 thrones.

In 2 Chronicles Chap 24 and 25, this is where it is listed for us where David began the courses of priests, and he assigned 24 courses of priests, that they would serve throughout the year so that the priesthood is covered. And all the people are covered, and they are called courses, 24 courses of priests.

24 in Jewish Literature has to do with perfection in covering, 24 courses to cover all of the people, and to cover all of the calendar for the twelve months.

Rev. 4:9 tells us that there's a time frame here. In heaven, things happen in order. The four living creatures are the ones that lead all of heaven in their orchestra of praise to God. When the four living creatures give their glory, honor, and thanks to the one who sits on the throne who lives forever, then the 24 elders fall down before Him that sat on the throne, and they worship Him that lives for ever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things for your pleasure.

So the living creatures act, the 24 elders respond, and then the rest in heaven follow in the same way of worship and action!

Hi Charlotte.

There's 2 popular views.

Some say the Patriarchs, and The Apostles and some say these 24 elders are represents the Church elders as a whole. I hold the view that they are of the Church.

God bless.

who are the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4.?

First , you definitely have God , you can always talk to Him about anything and everything , we can approach Him through our sinless High Priest and His Son Jesus Christ . Secondly , you can always come on here and tell us anything and if we can help we will . Please remember that as a Christian you are never alone , God and Jesus are with you 24/7 so talk to them , or us , anytime . Much love in Christ .

i guess this is a out of the normal commit, i use the have a christian brother i could talk to , why the church of christ seem not to think to have a open, well i call it talking about problems , i even ask one of the new prechers an he said i am not going to air my problems,hmm any way my brother in christ passed an i have no one

Roy,

Revelation 1:4 says from the seven Spirits which are before His, that is, God's throne;

There are two schools of thought on this. Please know that the number seven doesn't necessarily mean there are seven Spirits.

In the Bible, seven represents completeness, perfection.

The Jews take it as a Hebraism. RASHI, one of the greatest Jewish scholars uses Isaiah 11:1-2 to show that what John is using is a Hebraism to denote the seven fold Spirit of God. It means the Spirit of God is complete and perfect.

But what specifically is he making reference to?

In Revelation 4:5, we see the same thing when we study what the throne is like in heaven.

It says and out of the throne proceed lightnings, and thunderings, and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

In Revelation Chapter 5, the chapter where we see this scroll with seven seals on it, which is the title deed to the earth, and the call goes out who is worthy to take the scroll and loosen the seals thereof.

And no one was found worthy in heaven. And John began to weep. And he was told don't weep, the Lamb of God is worthy.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.

The seven eyes of Christ are the seven Spirits. So it represents completeness, perfection.

But its application is to the Lord's seeing. You see, he's talking about the all-encompassing Spirit who sees all things, and knows all things. That's the way the Jews understood it.

The scripture reference is Zechariah 4:10 which talks about these seven eyes, meaning that God sees perfectly and completely all things. And so John is using a Hebraism here.

Hope this helps!

verse 1 of chapter 4 says VOICE like a trumpet, verse 5 says voices and it does bit say what they sounded like.

We cannot ASSUME where the what God means but I THINK we aught to take it the way we read it.

Beloved "Daniel", as you say it is, even in a double sense. Proclaim death and depravity and it will be like this. Proclaim peace and joy and it will be. We learn to capture the thoughts so that they do not lead to sin.

2 Corintihans 10:4-5 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Yes, He also created all life forms. Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Then I think: Moray eels in the depths of the ocean, the Whale and the Snake. Elephants, Crocodiles, or Piraia. When you go into that world and see everything that has been created. We also understand that this can be a picture of what we can encounter in the Spiritual world.

The only thing I can advise is to eat God's Word, ask for guidance. So that you get to know them all, for even then reveal those who do not want good.

Stay blessed in Jesus Name, love u in Christ. Luke 8:40-56

Philip,

I'm not sure if you're asking a question here but here is my understanding of Revelation 4:5. This will be the expression of God's judgment whenever He judges. We see it throughout the book of Revelation. There will be lightnings and thunderings and sounds coming out from the throne.

And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God. We saw these seven spirits back in Revelation 1:4. Revelation 5:6 will tell us that these seven spirits of God are the seven eyes of God going throughout the world. It is the seven fold complete ministry of the Holy Spirit held by the Jews and of course the scripture teaches that.

In Zechariah Chapters 4 and 10, it also tells us that the seven lamps are the seven eyes of the Lord, the all-seeing one. So before the throne, the seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.

In verse 5 is there a description of the 7 spirits of God & what each signifies?