Discuss Revelation 4 Page 3

This chapter shows the abrupt shift in setting based on things that "must be hereafter" according to verse 1. John was taken up in the spirit (verse 2) to observe the throne; who sat on the throne; the 24 elders; and the sevenfold or seven Spirits of God (seven lamps of fire) burning before the throne. This would indicate the church raptured; and likely the 12 Apostles and 12 elders from the O.T. who were the sons of Abraham.

The four beasts before the throne show the continuing narrative in Ezekiel 1:5. These were and are still continually praising the Lord. The elders once again appear in verse 10 casting their crowns down and giving praise to God's attributes.

When we get to chapter 5; we see that the elders discuss being redeemed from every tribe tongue and nation (verse 9 and 10). So it would seem that they are representative of the whole church; or else a larger group was also included in the text and the way it is translated seems to hide it. I have heard that analogy; in any case clearly the reference to "kings and priests" such as represented in 1 Peter 2:9 and other scriptures makes it clear the whole victorious raptured group of saints from the church age are meant here. Other scriptures; however mention the warning of losing reward ( Rev. 3:11); and indicate crowns are rewards for specific things. Those who are raptured will recieve a crown for those eagerly looking forward to that Day ( 2 Tim. 4:8). Certainly; however those who make it in as through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15) will suffer loss; and many may not have crowns or be kings and priests during the Millennium. Those who have more fruit have bigger reward ( Luke 19:17-19); and some who hide their "talents" will lose even what they thought they had ( Luke 19:24). A similar parable shows that servant being cast into outer darkness; either the Tribulation or hell.

So we can barely enter heaven; or be a tare if not investing what He gave us and producing fruit. Food for thought!

Correction,,, Just start from the beginning of the chapter, it's fascinating how Ezekiel describes the whirlwind that came.

Yes, Chapter 1

Ezekiel Chapter 1?

Ezekiel 1:14 from there, it just gets keeps getting better!

In one of the prophets of old there is a description of what appears to be a vehicle, not of this world; I remember thinking at the time he couldn't describe it very well because he didn't understand what it was. Does anyone know to what chapter and verse I am referring?

Thanks Brother Jesse!

I knew King David establishment of the priest was associated with the 24 elders but never knew meaning. "perfection in covering." brings more clarity.

God bless you.

Hello Brother Spencer,

I also have heard of two views. Many believe the elders, who are of the church, clothed in white raiment, (the promise to believers), and have crowns of gold upon their heads, (evidence of the reward to believers). We see the white raiment in Rev. 3:5, and crowns of gold in Rev. 2:20.

Many believe this is the representation of both the OT and the NT, the entire church, both Jew and Gentile, with the elders and the 24 courses, or 24 elders that are sitting.

The book of Revelation is a piece of Jewish Literature and understood by the symbols and the presentations that we receive from the Tanak, the Old Testament. There are 404 verses in Revelation, and there are over 800 allusions and direct quotes from the OT.

So there are 24 elders sitting on 24 thrones.

In 2 Chronicles Chap 24 and 25, this is where it is listed for us where David began the courses of priests, and he assigned 24 courses of priests, that they would serve throughout the year so that the priesthood is covered. And all the people are covered, and they are called courses, 24 courses of priests.

24 in Jewish Literature has to do with perfection in covering, 24 courses to cover all of the people, and to cover all of the calendar for the twelve months.

Rev. 4:9 tells us that there's a time frame here. In heaven, things happen in order. The four living creatures are the ones that lead all of heaven in their orchestra of praise to God. When the four living creatures give their glory, honor, and thanks to the one who sits on the throne who lives forever, then the 24 elders fall down before Him that sat on the throne, and they worship Him that lives for ever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things for your pleasure.

So the living creatures act, the 24 elders respond, and then the rest in heaven follow in the same way of worship and action!

Hi Charlotte.

There's 2 popular views.

Some say the Patriarchs, and The Apostles and some say these 24 elders are represents the Church elders as a whole. I hold the view that they are of the Church.

God bless.

who are the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4.?

First , you definitely have God , you can always talk to Him about anything and everything , we can approach Him through our sinless High Priest and His Son Jesus Christ . Secondly , you can always come on here and tell us anything and if we can help we will . Please remember that as a Christian you are never alone , God and Jesus are with you 24/7 so talk to them , or us , anytime . Much love in Christ .

i guess this is a out of the normal commit, i use the have a christian brother i could talk to , why the church of christ seem not to think to have a open, well i call it talking about problems , i even ask one of the new prechers an he said i am not going to air my problems,hmm any way my brother in christ passed an i have no one

Roy,

Revelation 1:4 says from the seven Spirits which are before His, that is, God's throne;

There are two schools of thought on this. Please know that the number seven doesn't necessarily mean there are seven Spirits.

In the Bible, seven represents completeness, perfection.

The Jews take it as a Hebraism. RASHI, one of the greatest Jewish scholars uses Isaiah 11:1-2 to show that what John is using is a Hebraism to denote the seven fold Spirit of God. It means the Spirit of God is complete and perfect.

But what specifically is he making reference to?

In Revelation 4:5, we see the same thing when we study what the throne is like in heaven.

It says and out of the throne proceed lightnings, and thunderings, and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

In Revelation Chapter 5, the chapter where we see this scroll with seven seals on it, which is the title deed to the earth, and the call goes out who is worthy to take the scroll and loosen the seals thereof.

And no one was found worthy in heaven. And John began to weep. And he was told don't weep, the Lamb of God is worthy.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.

The seven eyes of Christ are the seven Spirits. So it represents completeness, perfection.

But its application is to the Lord's seeing. You see, he's talking about the all-encompassing Spirit who sees all things, and knows all things. That's the way the Jews understood it.

The scripture reference is Zechariah 4:10 which talks about these seven eyes, meaning that God sees perfectly and completely all things. And so John is using a Hebraism here.

Hope this helps!

verse 1 of chapter 4 says VOICE like a trumpet, verse 5 says voices and it does bit say what they sounded like.

We cannot ASSUME where the what God means but I THINK we aught to take it the way we read it.

Beloved "Daniel", as you say it is, even in a double sense. Proclaim death and depravity and it will be like this. Proclaim peace and joy and it will be. We learn to capture the thoughts so that they do not lead to sin.

2 Corintihans 10:4-5 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Yes, He also created all life forms. Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Then I think: Moray eels in the depths of the ocean, the Whale and the Snake. Elephants, Crocodiles, or Piraia. When you go into that world and see everything that has been created. We also understand that this can be a picture of what we can encounter in the Spiritual world.

The only thing I can advise is to eat God's Word, ask for guidance. So that you get to know them all, for even then reveal those who do not want good.

Stay blessed in Jesus Name, love u in Christ. Luke 8:40-56

Philip,

I'm not sure if you're asking a question here but here is my understanding of Revelation 4:5. This will be the expression of God's judgment whenever He judges. We see it throughout the book of Revelation. There will be lightnings and thunderings and sounds coming out from the throne.

And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God. We saw these seven spirits back in Revelation 1:4. Revelation 5:6 will tell us that these seven spirits of God are the seven eyes of God going throughout the world. It is the seven fold complete ministry of the Holy Spirit held by the Jews and of course the scripture teaches that.

In Zechariah Chapters 4 and 10, it also tells us that the seven lamps are the seven eyes of the Lord, the all-seeing one. So before the throne, the seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.

In verse 5 is there a description of the 7 spirits of God & what each signifies?

Revelation 3:18 COMMENTARY

Wesley's Notes for Revelation 3:18

I counsel thee - who art poor, and blind, and naked. To buy of me - Without money or price. Gold purified in the fire - True, living FAITH, which is purified in the furnace of affliction. And white raiment - True holiness. And eyesalve - Spiritual illumination; the unction of the Holy One, which teacheth all things (the Holy Spirit)

People's Bible Notes for Revelation 3:18

I counsel thee to buy of me gold. In Christ are "all the treasures of wisdom" ( Colossians 2:3). And white raiment. That they may have the wedding garments ( Matthew 22:11-13). Anoint thine eyes with eyesalve. The unction of the Holy Spirit ( 1John 2:20).

Many people have no faith to ask Jesus, themselves, to be healed (physically, emotionally, financially, making decisions, etc). Why?

It's one thing to lay on your mat and stare at Jesus wishing he would heal you. The man explained his parents must've sinned. Jesus had mercy on him. Stand up, pick up your mat and walk home. The man lays there a minute, then obeys. He stands up, dances around leaping for joy-picks up his mat and walks home.

His faith in Jesus's ability, opposed his belief in his parents sins. His faith stood up.

ONLY THE BIBLE can counteract our unbelief and excuses why we are sick or downtrodden by society at large.

Mix faith with obedience to the known Will of God.

Pray the Lords Prayer, and let your ears hear each line. Each one is a YES and AMEN, from God the Father.

Let's be real here? If there's some kind of hidden sin hindering that prayer; dig it up and give it to Jesus. "I did "this" and I'm sorry for it." Jesus's blood erases it. Guard your heart and mind.

The Lords Prayer says, THIS DAY. This is a daily thing. I do it every day. I'm not perfect yet. Some day I may shine a little like gold or silver, that I purchased with prayers. I have His Love and Acceptance now. So do you.

Mishael

What does gold, silver and (?) can do for our health?

Gloria,

Revelation 4:4 says "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats, or literally thrones, 24 thrones: and upon the thrones I saw twenty four sitting, (Characteristic), clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The white raiment is found in Revelation 3:5. And the crowns of gold is promised to believers ( Revelation 2:10).

There are 404 verses in the book of Revelation, and there are over 800 allusions and direct quotes from the Old Testament. The book of Revelation is a piece of Jewish Literature. And it must be understood by the symbols and the presentations that we receive from the Tanak (The Old Testament).

So there are 24 elders sitting on 24 thrones. In 2 Chronicles Chapters 24 and 25, this is where it is listed for us that where David began the courses of priests, and he assigned 24 courses of priests, that they would serve throughout the year so that the priesthood is covered. And all the people are covered, and they are called courses, 24 courses of priests.

Now 24 in Jewish Literature has to do with a perfection in covering, 24 courses to cover all of the people, and to cover all of the calendar for the twelve months.

And so here are 24 elders. Many believe the elders, who are of the church, clothed in white raiment (The promise to believers), and they have crowns of gold upon their heads, again evidence of the reward to believers.



And some believe that this is the representation of both the Old and the New Testament, the entire church, both Jew and Gentile, with the elders and the 24 courses, or 24 elders that are sitting.



Hope this helps!

Hey Love of Jesus

Satan is a created being, what does he look like? Isaiah 14:12-15 morning star, translated Lucifer, the morning star/day star is the planet, Venus, it is brightest just before sunrise, 2 Corinthians 11:14 an angel of light, 1 Peter 5:8 a roaring lion, Revelation 12:3 great red dragon seven heads ten horns and seven crowns. There are many descriptions of Satan, but he is a master of disguise.

The horrific almost cartoonish description of Satan comes from the Middle Ages. If the understanding it is covering Satan, Ezekiel 28:14 says Satan was a covering cherub. There are seraphim we see in Isaiah 6:1-6 and in Revelation 4:6-9 called beasts, and cherubim, is in the bible more times, seraphim six wings, cherubim four wings. The biblical descriptions, I believe if we came face to face with, we would faint from fear.

Satan is not omnipresent; he can only be in one place at a time. There are evil spirits and evil angels he controls on this earth, we see in Daniel, battles that we cannot see, Daniel 10. The devil and his evil spirits can affect our life, and it can be vicious, Ephesians 6:12 but we far too often use that to excuse our own bad choices (the devil made me do it). Galatians 5:17

We also have been told, James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

God bless,

RLW

My understanding is that the third heaven is the same heaven John is caught up to in Revelation 4:1-2.

The other two heavens are the earth's atmosphere (the first heaven) and outer space (the second heaven). Paul appears to be giving the order of these heavens from an earthbound perspective rather than from an order of creation perspective, since the order of these heavens would be reversed if they were numbered from the oldest to the newest.

Genesis 1:14,15,17 says "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven ..." but in Genesis 1:20 it says God created "...fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." The addition of the word "open" to the firmament of heaven the birds could fly in means there was a different firmament of heaven that was not open to birds where the lights were.

(Note, I believe Genesis 1:14-19 describes objects in outer space as being "in" the firmament of heaven created on the second day to portray them specifically as they appear to earthbound observers within that firmament who use them to measure earthbound time).

It's interesting that you're noticing the differences, I'm guessing you've read Genesis before & studying or reading again or just very observant.

John 1:1-5, Revelation 4:10-11, Colossians 1:12-23, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 10:1-7,

Note: Isaiah 42:1-12, Isaiah 42:23, compare: the Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke & John,

There is a difference I believe because it seems to point out that man Adam being put into the Garden, symbolic of the Church. To tend it, where GOD seems to already have given the Genesis 1:27-28 'created female & males, direction to multiply & subdue take dominion over the earth & creatures land & sea. Genesis 2:7-8, Genesis 5:1-3, interestingly it is the lineage of Seth the Jesus comes through : Luke 3:23-38

1Corinthians 15:45, 1Corinthians 15:42-47, Genesis 2:15, Genesis 2:18-24,

Hi Raymond.

Yes, I believe we will see our loved ones in Heaven, and yes, "In Heaven"

I like the scripture free has given and king David seems to suggest the same.

"But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me".

2 Samuel 12:23.

Here's a few of many scriptures that suggests we will be in Heaven.

Revelation 4:1-2. After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2) And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 4:4.

Revelation 4:10.

Revelation 5:1-3. Notice verse 3- "And no man in heaven", nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." Not only are there people in Heaven and on earth here, but this is also before the tribulation!!

Revelation 5:13-14. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

There is several different views on whether we will be in heaven or not.

I'm not interested in going into that debate besides your question was "Will we see our loved ones in Heaven' and answering your question is most important.

God bless.

Please see these references: Mark 9:1-7, Matthew 17:2, Matthew 28:3, Luke 9:29, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 1:14, Mark 16:5, John 20:12, Acts 1:10, Ecclesiastes 9:8, Revelation 3:4,5, Revelation 7:9-17, Revelation 20:11, Isaiah 1:18, Revelation 6:2,11, Revelation 9:18, Daniel 11:35, Revelation 4:4, Daniel 7:9, Revelation 2:17, Daniel 12:10,

John 4:35,

But Also : Genesis 40:16-23, Joel 1:7, Leviticus 13, Revelation 15:6,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Revelation 4:11,

This scripture in verses 9 through 11 echoes the gospels where Christ states that things were told in parables so that only those who were "as a little child" would understand (see parallel verse in Mark 4:12). This passage in Isaiah is alluding to the nation of Israel in general. Verse 11 shows a diaspora in the land; perhaps indicative of Old Testament events; but certainly also indicating AD 70 and the future dispersion in the Tribulation. There will be a final remnant as verse 13 indicates of the "holy stump" which Daniel also uses to refer to God's people in the last days who remain. If we reverse the order of this chapter and now go to verses 1 through 6; we see the real cause of the problems for those who were in Israel at that time; the lack of fear of the presence of the Lord in their lives. Daniel also offers a similar plea when he realizes the plight of the Jews in Daniel 9. The seraphim and heavenly creatures in Revelation 4:6 -8 and Ezekiel chapter 1 and other places are pictures of the same 6 winged creatures (the Cherubim have 4 wings as stated in Ezekiel 1:6; and four faces (one on each side) as demonstrated here and Revelation 4:7). Anyone having a genuine vision of the Lord would respond in a similar manner; being prostrate and totally undone. Judgments will wake up some but sadly others who are unregenerate simply will be hardened further in their rebellion against God.

Page 2.

For man, his desire to create & progress in his knowledge & experience is fuelled by desiring better ways or tools to get tasks done, to make life more comfortable, to deal with crises (e.g. disasters, epidemics, etc.). God has no need to acquire such knowledge & experiences. But His creative Attribute which harmonizes with all His Attributes, expresses itself in what He has created & continues to do. Those beings in Heaven & around the Throne, the worlds suspended in space & even insignificant man amidst all that grandeur, must be products of God's Attributes giving full expression.

If we believe that man's faith without works is lifeless faith, can we not expect that a God with indescribable Attributes that make Him Who He is, would also exercise & express Himself in all manner of ways, one of which being, to create all things for His pleasure? In Greek: He created according to His Will ( Revelation 4:11). And that Will which is inseparable from His other Attributes of Holiness, Love, Truth, etc., is seen in all that He has created. Maybe, one could say that if God didn't create, then His other Attributes exercised in unison would not find their full expression. Just adding my few thoughts to this conversation.

Hello Beverly Drigger,

I am sorry for the heavy heart & loss you're feeling. Years ago I was going through heavy loss & I looked up the deeper the meaning of "HE binds up their wounds" & realized in life when we've gone through a surgical procedure or similar the bandages are wrapped around & tended to, sometimes removed & rebound. In the healing process. The more serious, bigger etc. The more to the process & longer to heal. It was comforting to me & I hopefully to you. That it seems to be written in the present tense, meaning HE's actively binding up our wounds. Psalms 147:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18,

Isaiah 26:19, 2Samuel 12:19-23, Revelation 20, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 4:13,

Hopefully these help answer your question & helps comfort you, in this moment.

Thank You