Discuss Romans 11 Page 8

Thank you brother Dan for providing the Scripture: Romans 11:13-16. I understand that you see from these verses that both the "Israelites & Gentiles are subject to the same 10 commandments".

If we read the whole passage, we see Paul referring to the "election of grace" (v 5), whereby those Jews, with blinded eyes, deaf ears, & a spirit of slumber, failed to take hold of God's Grace & rested on their works (which by inference is to the Law of Works) to obtain salvation. And through their fall & removal from the olive tree, those of believing Israel, including believing Gentiles were grafted into that natural tree, which represents those whom the Lord regards as His Own (by election), those who have taken hold of God's Grace in salvation.

You're seeing this grafting in of the Gentiles with the believing Jews as a sanction from God that all be brought under the Law or to obey it. I see the opposite: I see the election of Grace at work, whereby those who were cut out from the tree because of their reliance on the Law to save them, have given up their privileged position to those who have not relied upon the Law to save them, but have submitted themselves to the Grace of God for His salvation.

And if our salvation (for both Jew & Gentile) is dependent on God's Grace, then it is no more of works. As Paul said in the same chapter, verse 6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." And this work that he was referring to was Israel's dependence of the working (fulfilling) of the Law towards their salvation. And to this, God's Grace was in opposition, for salvation cannot come by appealing to & relying upon the Law of Works. If salvation then is by Grace alone (which I know you believe), why refer to a Law that only leads to death when the new Law of the life-giving Spirit in us sets us free from the Law of sin & death? And Galatians 3:21.

Jackie,

Romans 11:25 says, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Frame that verse! Paul says here's the mystery that people don't understand even though it's right there in scripture that God made Israel blind in part, meaning it is temporary, not permanent until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Now there are two phrases in the New Testament. One is the "Times of the Gentiles," and the other is the "Fulness of the Gentiles."

The definition of the fullness of the Gentiles is the completion of the body of Christ. And the time frame runs from Pentecost in Acts Chapter 2 until the rapture of the Church. That is when all the Gentiles who are going to be saved will be saved. The fullness of the Gentiles is when every Gentile that's going to be saved is going to be saved.

So Israel has been made blind until the fullness of the Gentiles be complete.

The "Times of the Gentiles" is given to us in Luke Chapter 21 Verse 24, and the times of the Gentiles run from the Babylonian captivity to the end of the tribulation.

What it means is that God's judgment, the time of Nebuchadnezzar, that the Gentiles shall trample down Jerusalem and shall be in charge of the Jews as far as persecution.

That runs all the way from Babylon, 586 B.C, until the end of the tribulation period because when Christ comes, that's when Israel will turn to the Lord.

Scripture connecting Israel and the Gentiles.

Romans 11:16 Context

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches.

Israelites and Gentiles are subject to the the same 10 commandments.

God Bless

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Thank you for looking up the word "torments."

Matthew 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and TORMENTS, and those that were possessed with devils, and those that were lunatick, and those that had the palsy, AND HE HEALED THEM.

Luke 16:23 And in hell (grave) he lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of TORMENT.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting, O grave (hell), were is thy victory?

If I am not mistaken; the same Greek word is used in both Luke 16:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:55. Therefore; Christ, at his resurrection, had victory over both; DEATH and the GRAVE (hades) and HELL (hades).

I BELIEVE that both verse mean the grave. Death and the grave are the wages of sin.

Since Judah was the only one that had five brothers and the Pharisees claimed to be of the house of Judah. Jesus was telling the Pharisees the first will be last and the last will be first. They WOULD NOT be part of the first resurrection but would have to wait until the second resurrection. They would be in TORMENT(not having drank from the living water); but after the second resurrection they would be healed as described in Matthew 4:24.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel SHALL BE SAVED.....

Jerry. part 2.

If you are thinking we are grafted in by keeping the Law you are mistaking, you are missing the point in Romans 11.

Romans 11:20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

You are expecting to be grafted into a branch that has been broken off!

I'm not sure if you are implying salvation comes by keeping the 10 commandments, if you are the bible don't state that.

Galatians 3:16-26. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

We're not grafted into Israel. Israel is a branch. We're grafted into the vine to bare fruit.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1.

Linda, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I AGREE AND BELIEVE everything Jesse said in his comment to you. I will expand MY BELIEF a little more.

I BELIEVE that Christ; with the elect, are and will judge the world (Satan's kingdom that Christ took back at HIS resurrection). ( Matthew 4:8-9) ( Revelation 11:15) ( 1 Corinthians 6:2) ( 1 Peter 4:17)

I BELIEVE the parable of the workers; those called to work in God's vineyard, are the elect. Those called in the first hour are the apostles and others that took part in Pentecost. Since that first hour other workers have been called; till the present hour. Ourselves now being judged by the word of God; by our brothers before us, they being ONE IN CHRIST; have also become THE WORD, the BOOKS. ( Revelation 20:12) ( Revelation 20:4)

Matthew 19:28

Romans 11:31-32

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Son of God.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF ALSO shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Revelation 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me. thou must PROPHECY AGAIN before many peoples, and nations,and tongues,and kings.

I BELIEVE at the departure of this body we will be given THE FULLNESS OF GOD; which also will be HIS BODY, OMNIPRESENT able to judge others as he now judges us.

Romans 1:22

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Ezekiel 34:8

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

Proverbs 16:22

Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

Luke 24:25

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Proverbs 15:14

The heart of him that hath understanding seeks knowledge: but the mouth of fools feeds on foolishness.

Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Hebrews 3:19

So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Matthew 13:58

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Hebrews 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Romans 11:30

For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy...

Romans 1:17-28

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made [people], even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE.

Mishael comment: Not making a choice to receive salvation through Jesus; is a choice. Read John 3 carefully.

Thank you for those verses Earl. I will write how I perceive them.

In John 10:14. Yes the Lord knows His sheep and all that shall be saved. As He knows the end from the beginning. In that I myself could never tell anyone if they are saved, or will be, or not as it is all God's Will. Though in Matthew 7:21-23. stating there will be some that call out to Him Lord Lord!! Though He never knew them. Showing me that not all are of the Lord's sheep.

In John 10:16. I see this as the Lord starting with the children of Israel where He went about His mission for over three years. The "other sheep not of this fold", to me, are of all other people around the world or the Gentiles. That the Gospel began to be taught to after his death and resurrection. Though as we know not everyone who hears the Gospel accepts it no matter a Jew or Gentile.

With Romans 11:16. I see it as like in John 15:1-8. As Jesus Christ being the true vine and us(in Him) being the branches. As if we don't abide in Him we are good for nothing. I don't see all becoming holy(or saved) as Revelation 22:11.

Please let me know what you think. The two ways we may see these things are ok to me. I see no problem with having a bit different interpretations of these things. The Lords Will shall be done either way and I know I could be wrong. It is good for us to converse our feelings.

In reality the most important thing for all of us is to be close with the Lord and live by the Will of our Father in Heaven. 1 Corinthians 9:14.

Putting all our trust and faith in Him no matter what happens. Amen.

Richard, I know you know these verses; but look a little closer. HIS wisdom HIS understanding.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

These sheep are the firstborn (FIRSTFRUITS) of Christ being gathered in the age we are in.

John 10:16 And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, which are not of this FOLD (the age we are in now): them also will I bring (in ages to come) and they shall hear my voice (they can't hear his voice now because he is not calling to them now; but when he calls in the ages to come they shall hear); and there shall be ONE FOLD, and one shepherd.

Romans 11:16 For if the FIRSTFRUITS BE HOLY; the LUMP IS ALSO HOLY.....

Hi Karen.

PG1

The New covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:30 and Hebrews 8. Everthing in the old covenant and tabernacle was pointing to Christ. This new covenant was spoken of in Genisis Link and Link

Romans 11:8. (According as it is written, GOD HATH GIVEN THEM THE SPIRIT OF SLUMBER, EYES THAT THE SHOULD NOT SEE, AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR;)UNTO THIS DAY.

Romans 11:26-27. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

( For this is my COVENANT unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

2nd Cor. 3:6-16. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, (THE VAIL IS UPON THEIR HEART.)

Nevertheless when it (their hearts) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Karen, may the SPIRIT grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The BIG QUESTION? If you don't accept Christ in your physical life time are you cut off forever? Or go to hell?

Most BELIEVE in this assumption.

If the scriptures are studied as a whole and verses are not picked and apply in direct opposition to other verses we see a different truth than the above.

The scriptures assert that THE WORKS OF GOD are divided into different ages or generations.

So what's taking place in the age we are presently living in.

Scripture says that God through Christ is CHOOSING a few to rule and judge in HIS KINGDOM and they with HIM will bring all creation INTO CHRIST.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensations of the fullness of TIMES he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in CHRIST........

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of THE SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED (by Christ and his elect).......

Romans 11:30-31 For as ye in times past HAVE NOT BELIEVED GOD, yet have obtained mercy through THEIR UNBELIEF:

(vs 31) Even so have these also NOT NOW believed, that through YOUR MERCY they also MAY OBTAIN MERCY.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great; but the labourers (OF GOD'S WORKS) are FEW.....

Matthew 20:16 many are called, FEW are chosen....

Why are they called and not chosen; because they didn't BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAID.

Yes they are saved; but want be a judge in the kingdom.

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by washing of regeneration of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to eternal life" Titus 3:4-7

"In keeping of them is great reward" Psalms 19:11

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just and good" Romans 7:12

"the law is spiritual" Romans 7:14

"Sin is the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4

"Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" Galatians 3:10

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10

"weak through the flesh" Romans 8:3

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20

"having no hope, and without God in the world" Ephesians 2:12

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6

"We have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one...There is no fear of God before there eyes...For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:9-23

"the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" Romans 11:22

The following portions of Scripture relate to the coming day when the Jews will recognize their Messiah, the One they first rejected - and still do.

Romans 11:25-27: "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." And verse 26 cross references to Isaiah 59:20,21.

Zechariah 12:10: "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

"Faith alone does not secure our salvation WE must have works of the spirit".

Ephesians 2:8,9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I believe that it is by God's Grace through faith alone in Christ's finished Work that brings us salvation & nothing else. But works that FOLLOW faith, is the proof of the reality of that faith. Once works, or anything else, is added to God's Grace through faith, then it is no longer of Grace, but of works, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6.

If it was only my human faith, without God's Grace that undergirded & provoked me towards salvation, I would be in a pitiful state accounting that my generated faith alone was sufficient. Of ourselves, faith cannot succeed - we need the whole: God's Grace & Faith without any hint of human contribution towards it. But it may be that that was the intent of your statement. Blessings.

Page 2.

You also quote here Romans 11:32, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all", & then ask, "How can Christianity be saving the world at the same time?"

There's no question about 'Christianity saving the world' here. Paul is talking about the (spiritual) blindness of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles come in (v 25). As the Gentiles have not believed God, but now obtained God's Mercy because of Israel's unbelief (v 30), so Mercy comes to the Jews who now don't believe (the Gospel) (vv 28,31) with the same Mercy God has shown to the Gentiles.

So God has seen that all (Jew & Gentile alike) have lived in unbelief, & because of this, His Mercy is available to all. Nothing at all to do with Christians saving the world but of God Who shows Mercy to all of us.

Page 2.

What was the Judaizers message? Circumcision was the 'big thing' ( Gal 5): one could never be a true Christian unless he was first circumcised. They also needed to adhere to the various rites & ceremonies as prescribed by Law ( Gal 4:9,10).

Thirdly, with the above in mind (the limitations & brevity of the Law and to be warned about wrong teaching entering in), Paul then asks, "Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" ( Gal 3:2). Did the Law, whether found in the 10 Commandments or in the strict observance of religious days, events, sacrifices or ceremonies, ever minister to them the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus? With the limitations of the Law & by its design & expiry date, why would a believer ever appeal to that faded Law when the Life-giving Spirit because of Jesus Christ, was their possession: from the Spirit Who speaks & ministers to the heart & not by the letter of the Law? ( Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6).

You ask: "What then is the overall message we need to hear and understand?" The pressing message from the apostle is clearly in Galatians 5:1: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage". Though most of us don't have a Jewish heritage hanging over us, yet how many other believers still want to appeal to the Law (maybe not as the Judaizers did), but certainly when it comes to the strict adherence to each Law, even the Sabbath in particular, lest they fail from the Grace of God. If that were the case, then as Paul would say in Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works (conforming to the Law): otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

What a life & a liberty that Jesus has gained for us - yet so many Christians today desire to place a yoke of bondage upon us thereby weakening or negating the liberty we have through faith only, in Jesus.

High places in the OT are associated with worshipping idols, most often false gods. The Canaanites worshipped their gods on high places which were basically hills that were sometimes artificially made for that purpose. These hills would often have some sort of altar at the top, surrounded by groves of trees and Asherah poles, pillars, or standing stones. Their worship often consisted of burnt offerings, incense, feasts and festivals, cult prostitution, and child sacrifice.

God had often warned His people of imitating the heathen in these practises but only confine themselves at the prescribed places for worship. Even after the Tabernacle was built, where God met with the High Priest at the Ark of the Testimony, & later the building of the Temple by Solomon, people still through the years resorted to creating their own worship places.

Today, some religions still have their worship structures built at higher elevations. Some examples are: The great Pagoda atop Thailand's Doi Inthanon mountain; Taung Kalat Monastery in Myanmar (Burma); The Hanging Temple in Shanxi, China; The Roussanou Monastery in Greece; Saint-Michel d'Aiguilhe Chapel in France. By building these, the structures not only become central & visible to all & a focus of veneration & worship, but also give the sense of being closer to God. All these things detract from knowing & worshipping the True God.

But to the child of God, the Lord desires that the 'high places' in our thoughts & deep in our hearts be removed. That is, anything that would substitute for the lordship of God in our lives, where we give Him equal or second place in how we think & behave, rather than the first place. The NT speaks against being 'high minded': Romans 11:20, 1 Timothy 6:17, 2 Timothy 3:4 all show that such a state of mind & behaviour are contrary to the desires of God for us. Rather, to be like His Son: Philippians 2:3-11.

I actually took the time to listen to that lengthy teaching on the Pre-Trib Rapture deception. He spoke very well & covered a lot of ground, but failed to be more explicit in certain areas that the pre-tribbers would also hold to.

a. The Great Tribulation is a special event in history when it is God's Wrath that is poured upon the world of unbelievers. The tribulations that come to us, whether coping with life's demands & challenges or going through various intensities of persecution & to the laying down our lives for the Lord, are not part of God's Wrath, but what comes to us living in a fallen corrupt world ruled by the prince of this World. And on this aspect the YT speaker dwells on. One would need to look at the fact that a believer who has already been freed from the God's condemnation through Christ, would he then have to face His Wrath for his & the world's 'wickedness'?

b. 1 Corinthians 15:51,52 which ties in with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is taken as a separate event to the Day of the Lord not because of the specific events of the dead rising along with the saints to be with the Lord forever, but also what Paul was saying was a Mystery: something unknown or veiled beforehand, being revealed now. Just as the mystery of the Church ( Romans 11:25, Ephesians 5:32, 6:19, Colossians 1:27), so the mystery of the catching away that was not unknown before. The speaker never referred to this important point.

c. The escape of Lot & his family or of Noah & his from the pouring out of God's Wrath was not dealt particularly well by him. He emphasized that they escaped but the unbelievers were destroyed whereas in the Gt. Tribulation, it would not be so, therefore the analogy failed. However, I think that the emphasis is seen to be on the fact that God took out the righteous from the scene of His outpouring Anger.

These being a few of my observations from his talk, & though quite comprehensive & he being well studied, I remain unconvinced from his presentation.

In Romans 11:25, we read, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

This verse, nor any other verse by inference, does not suggest that all people will be saved prior to Christ's coming, but that all who are 'appointed' (or, pre-destined, or better understood as, destined according to God's foreknowledge) by God to attain salvation (whether Jew or Gentile) will have come to salvation prior to the close of the age. So there will still be people that will turn to Christ for salvation after Jesus comes for His children who are saved now, but in that last day of the closure of all things, all who are appointed for salvation will be with Christ & God, & those who reject Him are consigned to an eternity of suffering & separation.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Proverbs 8:11-12 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out

Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man that finds wisdom, and the man that gets understanding.

Proverbs 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.

Ecclesiastes 7:1-29 A good name is better than precious ointment;

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; [therefore] get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given

As soon as you enter this website is a Search Box. Find answers there.

Such questions we can only grapple with because God is infinitely more wise than we are:

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! ( Romans 11:33)

Romans 9 has some further development of this mystery of why the LORD bestows grace and mercy on some.

He knows the end from the beginning, and surely he knows the point where a person, by their own free will, will remain obstinate in unbelief, thereby ratifying their own destruction.

God does not want anyone to go to Hell:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ( John 3:17)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. ( 2 Peter 3:9)

Your comment is appreciated Hugo. Indeed, the Church has been blessed with many gifted with abilities from God. And prophecy was one of them. Some would argue the prophetical content of those so gifted: are they establishing the published prophecies in the Word, or are they proclaiming something added to existing prophecies, or even something totally new as some have been prophesying on future events from present news. To this, I am very concerned & of course, the truth of the prophecy can be verified by its outcome: Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

The Bible, in totality, is God's Word, past, present & future, to mankind. Prophets in the past have received God's Word directly to them which they have faithfully passed on. Others such as the apostles, in the new Church age, took up those prophecies & shed further light on them as they were led of the Spirit. Sometimes, they declared a 'mystery', something which was not revealed or clearly seen before (e.g. Romans 11:25, 1 Corinthians 15:51, 2 Thessalonians 2:7, & others). And the union of believing Jew & Gentile in Christ's Church is seen today in full measure.

In the Church now, which has the whole counsel of God in the Word & by His Spirit, any prophetical utterance has to be seen & tested by what has already been revealed. The fear that I expressed concerns the volume of cults & other God-centric religions that proclaim & prophesy matters that are not in the Bible, even anti-biblical & anti-Christian in content. And we also have a plethora of those who want to tingle our ears with something new so that we might be drawn to their 'prophecies or delusions', even donating money to keep their ministry going & our accepting them as fact rather than seeing them as 'an opinion', yet to be verified. Where is that "one prophet" of God out of a 1000 false ones that will make our hearts & spirits burn with joy & hope, rather than tingle our ears with nonsense? Blessings & peace on you too brother.

They Jews were blinded so we can have the truth. When the Jews rejected the Messiah, the Spirit of God moved away from the Jews and grace was given to the gentiles. This does not mean to say that all jews are lost. The blindness happened in PART not in TOTAL. Some jews will accept the gospel according to predestination. When the gentile or grace dispensation is over, there will be no more grace for the gentiles. The Spirit of God will return to the jews and 144,000 of them will accept the gospel.

ROMANS 11:29 COMMENTARY

Wesley's Notes for Romans 11:29

11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance - God does not repent of his gifts to the Jews, or his calling of the gentiles.

People's Bible Notes for Romans 11:29

Ro 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. God does not change his purposes or fail to keep his covenant. What he has promised concerning Israel will be fulfilled.

Discussion for Romans 11:2 6yrs agoApostle NJ Mkhize on Romans 11:29 the gifts and calling of God are without repentance God does not change his purposes when God appoints you to operate in a specific purpose no man or predicament that can overwrite the plan of God Ours is to dwell in the light as his in the light and be partaker of is grace .

Comment by Mishael: Jonah tried to run away from Gods call on his life. But in the end, he turned back and a whole city repented. Welcome back, Brother.

I believe Jesus because of what he said in Matthew 3:15-17. "That all righteousness must be fulfilled."

Even John the Baptist was born to fulfill prophesy. A voice crying in the wilderness.

It was even a prophesy as to where the donkey and colt was that He would ride into Jerusalem on.

I have this great chart of all the prophesies that would be fulfilled in Jesus ministry, right up to the Cross.

The one thing that made Him stay awake all evening when He was going to be betrayed and arrested, was when he would be separated from His Father while on the Cross: taking upon himself the sins of all the world, for all time.

All you can say, truly He is the Son of God.

All things were provided, so I know a basket of bread and some bottles of wine were a small detail. Let's search for Bread. Maybe it's on that list, I hope. Or in Isaiah? Joseph of Aramatheia (who provided the tomb) ?

The odds of all the prophesies being fulfilled have to be more than all the stars in our galaxy. How really can anyone doubt He is who he said He is.

I know it's natural to want to prove everything; but I believe what Jesus said: unless we become as this little child...in our faith; we cannot please God.

When we are caught up in the clouds to Jesus, the election will return the Jews again. Romans 11: 25-27

Scales will fall from eyes; ears will open!

The Dispersed Jews are returning by plane loads, every day. The Land is blooming, producing. Someone said there are wheat fields in Israel; water, oil. The Jews love for their land abounds. But they must turn their LOVE on the Lord, Messiah; who loves them again.

Don't doubt. Keep your full expectation on God to fulfill every thing that has been written and recorded. Ignore the NAYSAYERS. Jesus is impressed with our faith in Him. Preach that. Like John the Baptist.

Mishael

Patrick, the major and minor books of prophesy all speak of the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord began at the ministry of John the Baptist and has continued to the present. Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. (vs) 12 And from the days of John until now the kingdom or heaven suffereth violence ,..... Malachi 3:1 Behold I (Jesus) will send my messenger (John the Baptist), an he (John) shall prepare the way before me (Jesus): and the Lord (Jesus) whom ye seek shall appear in his (Jesus) temple,.... ( I Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God [Jesus] dwelleth in you?) Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his house; whose house are we,.... Zachariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh,.... (vs 6) And it shall come to pass in that day (day of the Lord: began 2000 years ago), that the light (Jesus; Spirit of God) shall not be clear, or dark: (vs 7) But it (day of the Lord) shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day (light) or night (dark): but it shall come to pass at evening time (end of the day of the Lord) it (day of the Lord) shall be light (Jesus; the Spirit of God in you, Jesus is the light of the world in you ). Matthew 13:33 ..... The kingdom of heaven (Christ in you) is like unto leaven (Spirit of God) which a woman ( Galatians 4:26 new Jerusalem: the mother of us all) took, and hid in three measures of meal (us; the meat offering to God), till the whole (lump; all mankind) was leavened (by the Spirit of God). Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, then the lump is holy;....

Marilyn, most, if not all, of revelation are symbols that represents teachings of the spirit that are hidden from our carnal eyes. Trees are symbolic of man, Jesus being symbolic as the tree of life, when we have our minds renewed, by becoming one with Christ, ( the coming of the Lord or the day of the Lord, which began at Pentecost) we also become one with the tree of life. Therefore, the tree (singular) on either side of the river is the first fruit of Christ (us). 1 Corinthians 15:20 but now is Christ risen from the dead, and is become the first fruits of them that slept. 21 for since by man came death, by man also the resurrection of the dead. 23 but every man in his (Gods) on order: Christ the first fruits; after ward they that are Christ at his coming. Isaiah 6:13 but yet in it (the land) shall be a tenth (first fruit), and it (first fruit) shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree (us), and as an oak (us), whose (Christs) substance (holy seed) is in them (first fruit), when they (first fruit) cast their (first fruit) leaves; so the holy seed (Christ) shall be the substance thereof. Romans 11:16 for if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy;and if the root be holy so are the branches. Ezekiel 47:12 and by the river (living water) upon the banks thereof, on this side and that side, shall grow all trees (of life;us) for meat (spiritual food; word of God), whose (tree of life,us) leaf shall not fade, neither shall the (first) fruit thereof be consumed (12 baskets left): it (tree of life) shall bring forth new fruit according to his (Gods) months; and the (first) fruit thereof shall be for meat (spiritual food;word of God), and the leaf thereof for medicine (healing of the nations). Matthew 12:33 the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven (spirit of God) which a woman (new Jerusalem; the mother of us all) took, and hid in three measures of meal (the meal offering to God, us), till the whole (lump) (all mankind) was leavened (by the spirit of God).

Galatians 3:14

That the blessing of Abraham MIGHT COME ON THE GENTILES through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Luke 21:24

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the (presently the elect) GENTILES BE FULFILLED.

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27And then shall they see the SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Comment by Mishael:

The Gentiles were grafted in, to become the Elect. The Jews were grafted OUT. Google "the Graft" scriptures.

The Jews are Spiritually blinded and deafened so they may not see or hear the Gospel of their Messiah Jesus Christ. They're certainly not going to believe God has divorced them.

WHEN the "catching away" of the Church occurs. Blind eyes and deaf Ears are going to be OPENED suddenly. The Jews will suddenly BE THE ELECT once again. They will know only the Messiah can do what has been done. They will have to cling to Jesus during the 2nd half of Redemption: Rapture to staging of Armageddon.

You must understand that even then; even after all the Miracles of Jesus preserving His Elect: some Jews will not relinquish their "control" over the power they have coveted for thousands of years.

Fix your eyes on Jesus on walk right into His arms. This is your Beloved; your Husband: who has fully forgiven you and grafted you into the Vine once more, eternally. The Lord of Glory. Come back now.

Mishael

I can say with assurance that I was adopted into the elect (Israel) by being born again and my willingness to be Baptized as a visible sign into His church. Like a marriage, as long as I am found faithful.

This also leads me to the thought that the harvest field is ripe and perhaps, some areas more ripe than others.

Carleton

So from what I read the elect are people who are saved not Israel many pastors say the elect is Israel but Israel don't except Christ and are blind therefor they are not the elect of God the saved are. Would you agree with this statement.