Discuss Romans 12 Page 11

Romans 12:20. What is the the meaning of heap coals of fire on his head?

Olivia, I believe you're referring to a comment initiated by Maryann a couple of months ago. If that is the case, I was addressing the matter of non-violence & non-retaliation, as prescribed in God's Word. Take time to read the following Scriptures: Matthew 5:38-44; Luke 6:27-38; and Romans 12:14-21.

So, these portions of Scripture tell us how Christians are to behave or respond when trouble comes our way. However, we should do all in our power to protect ourselves, our children & our property from wicked perpetrators. But what the Bible teaches is that we must not go on the attack, or repay evil with evil, or in any way do what Christ would not do. The only ones empowered by God to pronounce judgement & give out a penalty is the government. Often even they don't administer it correctly, but that is another matter.

Maybe your question is: "then how can we protect ourselves?" Are we talking about the authorities under instruction from an anti-Christian govt. coming to take you & your children because of your faith? Then I doubt neither you nor I could do much at all given their position & strength. We need to submit & trust God for the outcome. Or else, what would be your plans to oppose them? Using a gun? How far would that get you against the police or army?

But if you're thinking of a criminal breaking into your house or accosting you on the street, then you are authorized by law to protect yourself, but restricted by the amount of force used. Then again, how does one know what crime is intended to be committed? Does any of this help you, or have I missed your point?

TEBOHO i believe that ministering in the KJV relates to taking care of the every day business of the Church, such as the Levites did within the temple where Moses placed the Ark and all the other items God commanded him to build. Teaching I believe is the work of Moses, Jesus and others, to give/explain the word of God. and to show us what laws God wants us to follow and how to be saved in order to receive a place in the Kingdom of God.

Ask the Holy Spirit to help you and he will. James 1:13-17. 2 Timothy 1:7, Romans 12:1-2, Psalm 1

The 4th day is about the government of God upon us.the kingdom/reign of God. We are to fear God who is One and keep His commandments.

God made 2 great lights.

God set the 2 lights in the firmament (the opened hearing ear) of Heaven. Hear, O Israel.

The greater light is the first and greatest commandment to rule the children of the Day who are to love God with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength.

The second, lesser light is like the first. to love our neighbor as ourselves. When we have love for one another, all people in this dark world shall know we are His disciples ( John 13:35). We shall shine as the stars in the darkness of this world. We are to love even our enemies who hate us. In doing so, there is rule over those who are of the night in the darkness of their minds as we let God avenge us ( Romans 12:19) .

Mark 12:29-31 KJV

(29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

(30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

(31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

He made the stars also.as we shall shine as lights/luminaries in the darkness of this world in the doing of His 2 greatest commandments. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.

Philippians 2:14-16 KJV

(14) Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

(15) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Holding forth the Word/Saying of Life: that God is Light.

(16) Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

to be continued...

Teboho, apologies for neglecting this - I assumed that the word 'ministering' was the main focus here.

If I could give the Greek here: 'didaskon' = to teach, instruct or impart knowledge. It is used many times in the NT as it spoke of Jesus teaching (as in Mt 21:23), those from the apostles (2 Thes 2:15), or teaching within the Church ( 1 Tim 3:2, 2 Tim 2:24, where this gift is generally exercised by the elders who were carefully appointed to lead the Church to fulfil this important function). Often these days, the role of a Pastor (Gk. Poimen) is also seen as not only a shepherd of the flock, but also the Church leader & elder, but scripturally evident, a pastor's role is a shepherd/guide, who may or may not be an elder or have the gift of teaching.

Dear Chris

Thanks for that but you did not answer me fully. I asked what the difference between Ministering and Teaching is. You touched on the first and not the latter. Please assist and explain fully

God Bless

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you".We must conceive of the words, Luke 6:27 and Luke 6:28, as having been pronounced with some kind of enthusiasm.These precepts overflow with Love.You have only to meet every manisfestation of hatred with a fresh manisfestation of love. Romans 12:21 and Romans 5:8-10 KJV.

Teboho, if I may offer my understanding on these words. I see these as two distinct types of ministry in the Church just as the other verses that speak of those who encourage others or show mercy are also very useful in the building up of God's people. So, the Gk. word for 'Ministry' (v 7) is 'diakonia', otherwise translated as deaconship or service. So, the work of a deacon would come under the meaning of this word as well as others fulfilling this type of service, which must also include the sisters in a fellowship, who wonderfully serve in many other ways. I see Paul in this chapter trying to point out that whatever gift is given to us by the Spirit, we must use it diligently & cheerfully, for the blessing of the Church & not for our profit or elevation. I hope this helps you.

Dear Adam

What is the difference between Teaching and Ministering that is described in Romans chapt 12vs 7.. I have asked this before and didn't get a response.

God bless

Teboho

Comments by Alex on how Jesus will fulfil the Law. The law will be fulfilled in us sinners by the NEW BIRTH I.E. HIS DEATH, When a seed dies it multiplies ,he told the Greeks ( Gentiles ) Unless a seed dies it abide alone, But if it dies it will bring forth much fruit impling multiplication via his seed etc, Had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven, That was the great PROMISE i will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, That we might all get a seed to initiate a birth of Christ in us.Every man is gonna get a measure of faith. That good seed is the Word,The contents of that book in the right hand of the Father.Listen carefully Smite the shephard ( his death ) and the sheep will be scattered, THEN I WILL TURN MY HAND TO THE LITTLE ONES, spirits HIS OFFSPRING,Multiplication,She brought forth a man Child which was the H.G. its his children that are gonna be born in us sinners ( our new birth ) AND THEM THAT ARE BORN OF GOD CANNOT SIN thats our new inner man the H.G. REMEMBER unless ya receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in,that heavenly Child is the result of his seed that is gonna be born in us sinners. Thats what he was trying to tell th GREEKS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER SEE HIM IS IF YOU BIRTH HIM , and them that are born of God cannot Sin simply b.c that God seed remains in us,we are dead but Christ lives in us . Thats y he always refered to himself as the son of man,Mankind is gonna birth Christ,I.E. BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO GOD, Smite the shephard and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the little ones thats the babes and sucklings that is gonna result from his seed the Word. Thus they come in his Name whosoever receives one such Child in MY NAME. In his name implies he is the FATHER OF THE H.G. the father will send th H.G IN MY NAME. Thus the Godhead is Father Son and GRANSON. THATS Y HE SAID MY NAME IS ABRAHAM ISSAC AND JACOB .GB

Page 3.

Neither. Because the Law of the Life-giving Spirit has taken those righteous commandments of God & now written them in our hearts ( Heb 10:16). Isn't this then the same thing as being obedient to the Law? No, when we obey the Holy Spirit & not looking to the letter of the Law, our obedience to God then comes out of a renewed heart/spirit that has all that is necessary to obey Him. And this also includes the Fruit of the Spirit, walking in the Spirit & the Law of the Spirit & the Law of Liberty (Js 2:12). So when the Law says, Do not kill, we now know that it also applies to those who are angry with another without cause. When the Law says, Do not commit adultery, it now means even just the act of looking at a woman with lust ( Mt 5:21,22,28,29). If we want to buy a bunch of grapes, are we immediately convicted if we want to just take one to check if it is sweet? Or, do we justify our actions?

We have never denied the righteousness of God's Laws, but the Scripture tells us that only through Jesus we can be saved & only by His Spirit we can keep God's Laws that went beyond the letter & that which is now inscribed in our hearts. So even if we didn't have Scriptures as mentioned in Matthew 5 to teach us, I know we would still be aware of its Truth as the Spirit teaches us God's Holy demands upon us. We don't need to know God's Laws as they are already written in our hearts & we can choose to obey to enjoy God's fellowship & favour or disobey so allowing our sinful nature to resurrect itself.

Page 2.

Mercy Seat ( 1 Jn 2:1. God now meets us through Christ Who is our Mercy Seat, for the expiation of our sins & averting the Wrath of God from us).

So, it is only through Christ that we can see God's Holy requirement for His people (Jew & Gentile alike). If God saw us through the keeping (obedience) to the OT Law, then the Cross of Christ is made pointless & of no effect. Hence, Rom 8:3 reminds us that the Law was weak through the flesh (i.e. inadequate/ineffective because of our inability to fulfil the whole Law). If we sinned in even one aspect of the Law, we have sinned in all (Js 2:10). There was nothing wrong with the Law: it was our inability to keep the whole Law that proved our sinfulness, which meant that God had to send His Son, His Word in the flesh to take the punishment for us. Why? So that the righteousness of the Law might then be fulfilled in us & not in the keeping of the Law.

Are they correct, who say that we must obey the Law? If they maintain that we have to obey God's Law to the letter as well as being saved by grace through faith, then that belief is in direct violation to the meaning of the Cross & what the apostles preached & gave their lives for. In biblical terms, we never have to obey God's Laws as given to Israel to be right before God, because they could never work; we now look to Jesus Who fulfilled those righteous Laws in Himself, so that our focus is not on the letter but on the spirit of the law. So, Rom 8:1,2 gives the best description (transliterated): we who believe in Christ are no longer condemned by the Law, because we now live by the Spirit of God. Why? Because the LAW OF THE LIFE GIVING SPIRIT has set us free from the Law that only showed us our sin & brought death. And so how does this work out in our obedience to God? Do we still come by faith in Jesus & obey the Law to complement it? Or, if that is harsh, then maybe we just keep the Laws in our minds to guide us in our Christian walk? (onto Page 3.)

Page 1.

Teboho, what has been suggested to you concerning obedience to the Law is not entirely correct as far as the biblical meaning & application are concerned. Maybe it's only on a technical point but when it comes to such an important subject, we need to understand the Scriptures correctly so there is not only no confusion in our minds but also to others when they hear/read this message. So, in defence of the Word on this subject, I submit the following for your consideration & comparison to what you have heard elsewhere.

I doubt if anyone who truly believes in God, in His Son & the Word, could ever say that 'Christians are free to do whatever they like since we are not under the law': this is called antinomianism ("freed from moral law by virtue of the Grace given in & through Christ"). To say this, shows our gross misunderstanding of God's Laws, Whose "Laws are holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Rom 7:12).

So the questions that we need to ask & address: what are the Laws of God, to whom were they given & what was their purpose? We know that all the Laws given to Israel (as shown in Exodus & Leviticus mainly) were given to them & not to the Gentiles (these were not God's chosen people & not in God's (OT) view for blessing & eternal life). These Laws (the whole Law, including those pertaining to ceremony, festivals, daily life), including circumcision, these made Israel distinct from everyone else, as well as the Tabernacle with the Mercy Seat, where God met with His people. So, all the commandments given to Israel, not only identified them as God's Chosen, but also, through prophecy, pointed to a later, perfect fulfilment of them. Therefore, we understand that God's Son, Jesus Christ, was sent in complete fulfilment of those prophecies, whether in the Law ( Mt 5:17), Circumcision (not cut in the flesh but in the heart by Christ's sacrifice & worshipping God in the spirit, Phil 3:3-5; Col 2:11), (cont'd on Page 2.)

Wherefore the law (Ten Commandments). was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If you broke even one of the Ten Commandments, you were guilty of all.

Then Jesus gave us 2 new commandments; that if we live our lives by them, we won't need the Ten to teach us again.

It's a process of becoming free to love one another. A prophetic gifting doesn't give us permission to trample on others who have no clue. Love goes where law can't. Most unsaved people know they are sinners. The need to know about Grace; unmerited favor of God.

If you're grafted into God, you'll produce fruit of the new Life.

It's not a matter of the Old Testament no longer having relevance anymore. It does. There are many scriptures there, about Jesus before He was born as the Son of Man.

Also, scripture to us about conditions preceding the End of Days. There are plenty of those in both Testaments. Proverbs are excellent for anyone needing Wisdom; help in living alongside foolish unsaved people. Jesus never railed on people: His heart was Mercy and Righteousness. He wanted to come and set us free from the taskmaster of trying to obey the Torah. NOW Jesus is the only sacrifice that God accepts. He came to earth, fulfilled every jot and tittle of The Law; and sat down at the right Hand of God; the work complete.

He is now everyone's ADVOCATE (or attorney), when Satan comes Accusing us of gross or little sin, Before Almighty God!! Jesus consults in the Lambs Book of Life (names of the saved)....He says this one is MINE. God says: CASE DISMISSED!!! All of your days on earth are recorded in a Book; including your day of birth & death. The Book Of Remembrance: has all the things you have Spoken out loud about God and Jesus.

Tell someone about Jesus and what He's done for you. Even strangers.

Angels lean in to hear your praise.

I think the word 'end' here is similar to the word fulfill. Paul wrote Romans and is not saying it's ok to sin. We're saved by grace, but this is provided we are a Christian following Christ. Notice what Paul writes in the next chapter: Romans 11:19-23 "...if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." To me this is similar to Paul saying Romans 6:1. Warning against people who want to abuse the gift. Also similar to Hebrews 10:26. Romans 7 and James 2 explain this. Paul struggles with sin as he says in Romans 7:15 and is trying hard to obey and avoid sin. Rom 7:12 Paul says the law is holy, just and good. God bless...

Dear Adam,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation. Are you then able to provide me with a simple interpretation of Romans chapt 10 vs 4. I believe the view that the new testiment is replaced by the old testement is confused by the above. Hence require an interpretation of this.

God bless.

Hello, yes, I believe the whole Bible applies. I've heard people claim that Jesus fulfilling the law is abolishing the law, that it no longer applies whatsoever. Jesus already said that is wrong in the exact same verse of Matthew 5:17. He said he was not abolishing the law. So, I believe Jesus over what random people say. Fulfilling the law was through his death to pay for our sins, so we have grace as long as we follow Jesus- this is an active pursuit though. But that doesn't mean the law is gone. Keep in mind that Israelites has more than just moral law, but civil law, and ceremonial law. We don't need to follow the Israelite specific laws, just moral law. For example, 'do not kill'. Are some claiming that it's now just fine to kill your neighbor because Jesus fulfilled the law? That would be a very difficult argument for one to make that it's totally good to kill, when the Bible clearly says the opposite.

Jesus already said what happens to people who are inactive, who do nothing, who blaspheme, who follow the world, who use grace as an excuse to sin as much as possible Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus says if you love him, then keep his commandments. John 14:15. If you don't keep them, you don't love him. If you don't love him and don't follow him, is it likely you'll be invited to spend eternity with him in heaven? Jesus warned his followers repeatedly through parables that most people will go to hell. It's interesting how some Christians are trying to claim sin is okay, that it doesn't matter and that it's wrong to say it's wrong. Satan is the great deceiver and even works within the community of believers to spread his lies. It's clear what Jesus already said, so I'm going to believe and follow him and his words, not the words of man.

James 2 and Romans 6 explain this.

Note that this is my belief through years of Bible study and prayer and you will have other Christians claim otherwise. I already know all their arguments and find them unbiblical. God bless...

Explain in detail when you said the old testement still applies. I hear pastors, say we are under the new covenant or new testiment and not the old testimement or old covenant/mosaic laws. What in the old testiment is still applicable?

God bless

romans 10:4 rightouseness, which is in repentence, confession and obedience and I would say forgiveness

romans 14:23

eph 5:18 and be not drunk with wine ,where in is excess, but be filled with the Spirit

Teboho,

I would just like to touch on the sin issue. Something to consider when asking about what is sin and what is not is that in Romans 14:23, it says for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. That is a powerful statement. Anything that is not of faith is sin. And since the literal definition of the word faith means persuasion, anything that is not prompted by God's Spirit is sin. It is God's Spirit in us that persuades us to do the things that are pleasing to Him. That's what it is saying. That's what faith is.

Faith is the persuasion and leading of God's Spirit. And anything that is not of faith is sin. So there's your definition. So whatever it is, ask yourself if God's Spirit is persuading you to do that. If it's not His Spirit persuading you, then it is sin. That's just something we have to ask ourselves, no matter what it is we are partaking of. It's a personal relationship between you and Jesus Christ. What is He persuading you to do? Do that. Anything else is sin!

1. No. Jesus made wine; just don't get drunk and don't use it to tempt or cause others to stumble.

2. No.

3. If we're actively following Jesus then we're covered by grace and have hope for eternal life in heaven. We should obey God's laws, but since all are imperfect sinners we are covered by grace when we sin. The law still applies, but is fulfilled in that we aren't subject to its original punishment of death, but life with Jesus. James 2 and Romans 6 explain this.

What is the difference between Teaching and Ministering that is discussed in the book of Roman's Chapter 12 vs 7

Kind Regards

1) Is it a sin to drink wine.

2) Is true that it is a sin not to Tithe.

3) What does the scripture that says 'I have come not to replace the law and the prophets but to fullfil it etc mean?

Kind Regards

What the woman above said could be truth.

Evil men prosper when good men do nothing. Probably hoping someone else will do something. Is this herd mentality?

If God shook the earth, then so can we in our prayer life; specifically spiritual warfare life. Prayers move heaven into action.

Jesus says to pray for our enemies.

Matthew 12:44 and Romans 12:14

I explored this principal and found it to be true! I worked in a company that was full of people stepping over people to claw their way to the top. They got promoted, but I had years of pleasant work days without all the meanness and stress.

The sermon on the mount is full of working principals.

Precious--

You know we are strong survivors though. For me, and probably you also I hope...because of what I've been through I have been able to empathize, comfort, and HELP others that are hurting. I never did anything to deserve all the pain, however, I do know God chose me and you for probably that reason, to HELP someone else. God has also put "Earth Angels" in my life at different times. I hope you know what I'm talking about. There have been several people most of which were strangers, that did or said a small thing that impacted me and I knew God made us cross paths. One important thing I was told and helps me also is that people that abuse others it is mostly about control. So if I continued to feel down or let what the abusers did to me affect me negatively, then the abuser is still in control and "winning". So I do not want the abusers to have any satisfaction and do my best to stay positive. Also, I cannot fathom how a true HUMAN could be so evil and inflict so much pain. I know people like that must have a demon in them, it is the only explanation. So I do pray for them, for them to be released of their demons and for them to find God, find faith so that they may stop hurting others. May God bless you!

Roman -12

Perfect verse I need to meditate on that daily, so my pain and hurts won't overcome me, I'm thankful when god put verses in front of me, to remind me that he's in control, he knows my pain and how I'm feeling, but each day is a challenge, but I will continue to pray and feed my mind with his words,

I'm that person also and has I read your comments, all that you been through is me also, I have to remind myself, that he said vengeance is mine because so many times I want the people who hurt me to feel the same pain they put me through, sometimes I stay up at night trying to figure out how can I hurt that person, that causes me so much pain, because they're still enjoying life and I'm still hurting, , but by the grace of god I'm praying and learning each day that god is my strength, if I don't stay in his words, my mind start thinking vengeance.