Discuss Romans 15 Page 2

Very interesting discussions. Are we reading the same Bible? The commentary I read and understood. Do I agree? Sometimes not all. After all it is one's opinion. More power given to us is I pray and ask God's guidance. He pretty much tells me in the Bible if it is true. All comments are very much appreciated. But to fight for the truth is not my battle. God knows the truth and we are all reading it. it seems that all of us believe in the blood Jesus shed on the cross. I would not want my fellowbelievers to be accused of being anti-Christ. Neither anybody think they are being persuaded if an opinion was rendered. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and they are all welcome. I know we are all here reading the Bible and that we all seeks the truth from God. I will continue to study and pray that truth will be taught everywhere and to anybody who likes to be saved. I am respectfully happy to hear from all comments. The truth had been written in the Bible. It is up to each individual to allow the Holy Spirit shows them the truth. There is no need for contentions because we support all that is trying to find the truth. God forbid any of us be fallen away from the truth. I can feel passion on these discussions. I pray for all of your good will. If I have one wish, I would wish that all understand the truth the same way God would want all of us to know the truth. Then all Christian denominations will be dissolved. We have a priest that is Jesus Christ. We have a king and that is Jesus Christ. We have a mediator between God the Father in Heaven and us and that is Jesus Christ. We have one Saviour and that is Jesus Christ who sits in the most holiest of Holy in the third heaven. I think we have everything we need since Jesus fulfilled all in all. We are all servants to please God and not men. May you always be at peace and joyful and healthy from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

...continued

Paul was linguistically gifted both in oratory and written expression. He was also gifted with zeal for God and a strong commitment to live for Him, even before He met Jesus on that road to Damascus. God provided Paul with all of these things because He had pre-ordained that Paul would be the one to evangelize the known world (Mediterranean/Roman region) at that time. The world at that time was hellenized, learned, literate, and intellectual. So, an evangelist to the Gentile regions would need to have just the skill set, intellect, fervor, and courage as Paul possessed, along with the faith and grace given to him at conversion. So, historically, this may be why so much of his writings were preserved, dispensed to the various churches of the time, and thus included in the canon of the N.T.

I believe that God, in His wisdom, decided that Paul's writings included most of what He wished to be taught to the church, even if the other apostles taught the same things, and therefore, had mostly Paul's writings chosen for inclusion in the N.T. canon.

This does not mean that the other apostles were deficient in knowledge or what they delivered in their preaching and teaching. It just shows that God was (and is) guiding His church from the time of Jesus' calling of the 12 disciples on. We are benefactors of what all of the apostles preached. Some went to India, others to Egypt and Northern Africa, some went east, etc.

But to end this post, I think we all need to recognize when something we state is directly stated in the Bible and when something we stated is our opinion/assumption of how we interpret/understand what is stated or unstated in the history and writings of the early church.

Hello Ronnette,

I, too, have been following the Lord for all of my life. I am 65 years old. I cannot remember a time when I did not believe. God's calling upon me was from a very young age. Thanks for your response to me.

I have just one thing to address from your response:

You stated that Paul had more information and knowledge of the Gospel than the other apostles had. I do not concur. I know that Jesus told the disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring to remembrance in them all that He taught them. (I couldn't find the verse-this was after His resurrection, I believe.) I do not recall anywhere in the Scriptures where it says that there was this great difference in knowledge and understanding of the gospel between Paul and the other apostles.

So, therefore, what you state concerning this is really an opinion and/or assumption. And to be fair, as is my view that since Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring all He had taught them to remembrance and He sent them out to spread the Gospel to all nations long before Paul was called to be an apostle, then Jesus would have taught them all that He taught Paul, because the Holy Spirit would faithfully teach these apostles ALL they needed to know to spread the gospel, just as Paul was taught by Jesus ALL the same things He taught the apostles. God does not have a divided mindset concerning this.

We are blessed to have so much Scripture written by Paul. Unfortunately, we do not have much Scripture written by the other apostles or scribed from their preaching. Most of these that were authentic to the apostles were lost early on. But I do believe that if we had them, they would reveal that each of the apostles had as complete and knowledgeable understanding of the Gospel as Paul had received. I think that Paul was blessed with many "natural" intellectual gifts. He was highly intelligent and skilled at presenting viewpoints, arguments, and didactic teaching. He was well trained to a very high educational level.....

Serving God. In the ordinances and observances of the temple. As a nation, they did not serve him in their hearts; but they kept up the outward form of religious worship.

Day and night. With unwearied zeal; with constancy Lu 2:37. The ordinary Jewish services and sacrifices were in the morning and evening, and might be said to be performed day and night. Some of their services, as the paschal supper, were prolonged usually till late at night. The main idea is, that they kept up the worship of God with constant and untiring zeal and devotion.

For which hope's sake. On account of my cherishing this hope in common with the great mass of my countrymen. See Ac 23:6. If Paul could convince Agrippa that the main point of his offence was that which had been the common belief of his countrymen, it would show to his satisfaction that he was innocent. And on this ground Paul put his defence: that he held only that which the mass of the nation had believed, and that he maintained this in the only consistent and defensible manner--that God had, in fact, raised up the Messiah, and had thus given assurance that the dead should rise.

Ac 23:6-11

Ac 26:7 (KJV) Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Our twelve tribes. This was the name by which the Jews were designated. The ancient Jewish nation had hoped to come to that promise; it had been the hope and expectation of the nation. Long before the coming of the Messiah, ten of the twelve tribes had been carried captive to Assyria, and had not returned, leaving but the two tribes of Benjamin and Judah. But the name, "the twelve tribes," to designate the Jewish people, would be still retained. Comp. Jas 1:1. Ac 26:7 Paul here says that the hope had been that of the Jewish nation. Except the comparatively small portion of the Sadducees, the great mass of the nation had held to the doctrine of a future state. This Agrippa would well know. Instantly. Constantly; with intensity; with an effort with zeal. This was true; for, amidst all the sins of the nation, they observed with punctuality and zeal the outward forms of the worship of God. Serving God. In the ordinances and observances of the temple. As a nation, they did not serve him in their hearts; but they kept up the outward form of religious worship.

Jas 1:1 (KJV) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.

"The twelve tribes which are in the dispersion," or of the dispersion, This word occurs only here and in 1Pe 1:1, and Joh 7:35. It refers properly to those who lived out of Palestine, or who were scattered among the Gentiles. There were two great "dispersions" --the eastern and the western. The first had its origin about the time when the ten tribes were carried away to Assyria, and in the time of the Babylonian captivity. In consequence of these events, and of the fact that large numbers of the Jews went to Babylon, and other eastern countries, for purposes of travel, commerce, etc., there were many Jews in the east in the times of the apostles. The other was the western "dispersion," which commenced about the time of Alexander the Great, and which was promoted by various causes, until there were large numbers of Jews in Egypt and along Northern Africa, in Asia Minor, in Greece Proper, and even in Rome. To which of these classes this epistle was directed is not known; but most probably the writer had particular reference to those in the east.

The phrase "the twelve tribes," was the common term by which the Jewish people were designated, and was in use long after the ten tribes were carried away--leaving, in fact, but two of the twelve in Palestine. Benjamin and Judah.

good stuff sister, yes the gospels are the same, the new testament explains the old testament, there's no divisions

Also, Ronette.

I accept the writings of ALL of the apostles and disciples included in the N.T. as being for me, not just those of Paul. This includes the four Gospels. Jesus is the one who teaches me through His Holy Spirit. His words and life story is for my application. And His Spirit teaches me from all of the N.T. Scripture writers along with the O.T. as well.

Hello Postmyers:

Wow I agree everything you said. You just explained it in detailed. Thank you. Agape.

Hello Postmyers,

I tend to think of the lost sheep of Israel as both the house of Judah and the house of Israel, the Southern Kingdom and the Northern Kingdom. Many of the Jews returned to Jerusalem form the Babylonian captivity, but very few members of the remaining 11 tribes returned from Assyria, and those that did intermingled with the transplanted peoples that the Assyrians government moved into Israel when they took the Israelites captive. Most members of these 11 tribes and many of Judah migrated out of Mesopotamia northward into western Asia and eastern Europe, and eventually to all parts of the earth. Most of the members of these dispersed 11 tribes today do not even know that they are Israelites. So, Jesus came for these Israelites all over the world, not just for the Jews, when He made that statement you cited.

Even so, the Gospel of Christ is the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom as well as the Gospel of Heaven, and the Solitary Gospel is to be preached to all inhabitants of the world because Jesus is the Savior of humanity, not just of the Jews.

Hello Gigi:

I truly appreciate your response. I am also happy that we can discuss the truth according to the word of God, KJV Bible. I really do agree with what you said that Jesus came to save all of us. So as the apostle Paul. That is why he wrote the gospel according to the scriptures in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. There is none that indicated in my explanations that Paul has a different Gospel than Jesus Christ. I simply stated that these two verses distinguishes one from the other (i.e. between v8 and v16). Come to think of it. It makes it more amazing that God is a God of number. It multiplies the 8 by 2 and you have verse 16. Anyway, I digressed. It also amazes me that in Matthew 15:24 Jesus said that. I know every word in the Bible is very important, especially inspired by God. There is no way one can understand the Bible without dividing the word of truth per 2 Timothy 2:15. That is why I study very hard. Because Jesus Christ personally selected Paul to be His last disciple, Jesus revealed to Paul more information for us Gentiles. Something that Jesus did not reveal to other Apostles. Peter even agreed that some of Paul's epistles are hard to understand. But in the end Peter agreed with Paul. I am trying not to repeat myself in every comment entry I have here. With my 60 years experienced in the world, my professional job is really not to confused people. I have noticed some understand but not many see the truth. That is why I made my comment a stimulating discussions. I truly understand your point. I also can see why people get confused on the passages. I truly believed there is a dispensation in the word of truth. For example, why do you think Jesus Christ said to His disciples in Matthew 10:5-6 to not go to Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel? Then in the last two verses in Matthew 28 He said to go to all Nations? If there is no dispensation, one would say Jesus is contradicting Himself. But we know God better than that. Don't we?

Hello PostMyers:

Thank you for your response.

I know based on KJV Bible, Paul is not only an inspired man he is chosen by THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF as the last Apostle.

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God," Romans 1:1 KJV

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, ." 1 Corinthians 1:1 KJV

"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,." 2 Corinthians 1:1 KJV

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)" Galatians 1:1 KJV. You may wonder why every first verse of Paul epistle wrote that's he is an apostle of Jesus Christ. I think you get the gist that Paul holds the important messages for us today. In my opinion ALL are indeed inspired by God. Agape.

Hello Ronnette,

There have been discussions such as this in recent months. People differ in their understanding on this. I, personally, believe that Jesus came for me, and you, and the Jew, and the Gentiles. His words are for all people, not just for the Jews. I do not elevate Paul as my singular apostles above the other apostles, nor above Jesus. If Jesus came only for the Jews, then His sacrificial death and resurrection was only for the Jews and Paul is appropriating this salvific work for the Gentiles without merit.

But, I do not believe that. I believe He is the promised Savior of Genesis 3:15 and saved all who believe in Him. He sent the Holy Spirit to all of the apostles at Pentecost, long before Paul became an apostle. The body of Christ existed before Paul became an apostle. he joined the other apostles when he was called to preach the same gospel as these other apostles to the Gentiles. The Gospel of Christ IS the gospel Paul preached. They are the same. There are not two gospels, one for Jews and one for Gentiles, in my opinion.

Well, this is my understanding on this topic, since you sought what others think about this topic.

2Ti 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All Scripture. This properly refers to the Old Testament, and should not be applied to any part of the New Testament, unless it can be shown that that part was then written, and was included under the general name of the Scriptures. Comp. 2Pe 3:15-16. But it includes the whole of the Old Testament, and is the solemn testimony of Paul that it was all inspired. If now it can be proved that Paul himself was an inspired man, this settles the question as to the inspiration of the Old Testament.

Acts 3:26

Verse 26. Unto you first. To you who are Jews. This was the direction that the gospel should be first preached to the Jews, beginning at Jerusalem, Lu 24:47. Jesus himself also confined his ministry entirely to the Jews.

Having raised up. This expression does not refer to his having raised him from the dead, but is used in the same sense as in Ac 3:22, where God promised that he would raise up a prophet, and send him to teach the people. Peter means that God had appointed his Son Jesus, or had commissioned him to go and preach to the people to turn them away from their sins.

To bless you. To make you happy; to fulfil the promise made to Abraham.

In turning away. That is, by his preaching, example, death, etc. The highest blessing that can be conferred on men is to be turned from sin. It is the source of all woes; and if men are turned from that, they will be happy. Christ blesses no one in sin, or while loving sin, but by turning them from sin. This was the object which he had in view in coming, Isa 59:20; Mt 1:21. The design of Peter in these remarks was to show them that the Messiah had come, and that now they might look for happiness, pardon, and mercy through him. As the Jews might, so may all; and as Jesus while living sought to turn away men from their sins, so he does still, and still designs to bless all nations by the gospel which he had himself preached, and to establish which he died. All may therefore come and be blessed; and all may rejoice in the prospect that these blessings shall yet be bestowed on all the kindreds of the earth. May the happy day soon come!

"Unto you first" Mt 10:5; Lu 24:47

"turning away every one" Isa 59:20;

Tit 2:11-14

(KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

there is no divisions, the new testament explains the old testament, not the other way around.

to be contuined 2...

But he answered---I am not sent, but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This answer was made to the woman, not to the disciples. The lost sheep of the house of Israel were the Jews. He came first to them. He came as their expected Messiah. He came to preach the gospel himself to the Jews only. Afterwards it was preached to the Gentiles; but the ministry of Jesus was confined almost entirely to the Jews.

Mt 10:5-6; Go not Into the way of the Gentiles.

verse 5, That is, among the Gentiles, or nowhere but among the Jews. The full time for preaching the gospel to the Gentiles was not come. It was proper that it should be first preached to the Jews, the ancient covenant people of God, and the people among whom the Messiah was born. He afterwards gave them a charge to go into all the world, Mt 28:19.

verse 6, . But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That is, to the Jews. He regarded them as wandering and lost, like sheep straying without a shepherd. They had been the chosen people of God; they had long looked for the Messiah; and it was proper that the gospel should be first offered to them.

"go rather" Ac 13:46

"lost sheep" Ps 119:176; Isa 53:6; Jer 1:6,17; Eze 34:5-6,8; 1Pe 2:25

to be continued, not enough space..

Hello Giannis:

I agree with your first sentence. To add, Jesus said "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 KJV. During Jesus Christ on earth He commanded His Disciples in Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. Had the Jews recognized their King..could of, would of, should of. But they killed their Messiah. Your second sentence is half correct. Jesus Christ had chosen Paul to be the twelfth apostle with a purpose to tell us Gentiles more detail what happened during his dispensation. The word dispensation can only be found 4X in Paul's epistles: 1 Corinthians 9:17

For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 3:2

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Ephesians 1:10

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

These verses proved to me that when Paul told us to "divide the word of truth" means that God speaks to different people in different times. Meaning Dispensation. Therefore, some verses of the Bible applies only to the Jews and only to Gentiles and some applies both to Jews and Gentiles in different times as "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:1 KJV. Paul is our Apostle today. His dispensation of Grace is critical for today's salvation. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Agape.

Hello 815:

I agree with you. Thank you for your response. I have been seeking since I was young. But not until my Mom died recently I truly realized the magnitude of what Jesus Christ did on the cross for me. I always cry every Lent season not understanding why. There is some profound things happened to me, but all I can say is that God wants all to be saved. Agape.

We are under the dispensation of Grace now! Since Jesus death, buriel and resurrection we are no longer under the dispensation of law. Christ fulfilled the law in every way.( Colossians 2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of Ordinances that was against us(pertains to the Law of Moses, which was Gods standard of Righteousness that man could not reach).which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to His Cross.

Hellow Ronnette

Jesus being a minister for the circumsision, means that He preached the Gospel to Israelites. Paul preached the same Gospel to the other nations. They both preached that salvation is offered to people, Jews and gentiles, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

But may I ask you something? What do you actually think when you read the words "divide the word of truth"? What you think it means? Because I think some people on this forum got it wrong. Also what does dispensation stand for, never heard it before.

GBU

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: (see Matthew 15:24)

16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

These two verses distinguished that Christ came to the lost Jews and that Apostle Paul is chosen by Jesus Christ to be our (i.e. Gentiles') Apostle. Do any of the readers see the big differences here? I have noticed that most comments everywhere forgot to divide the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15). Do you believe in the dispensation?

My Sister in Christ Sea:

Thank you for your kind response.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye." 1 Corinthians 16:1 KJV

The WORD OF GOD is so powerful that speaks to everyone that believes.

Philippians 4:8

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Philippians 4:9

Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Romans 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I love to know you as a daughter of God and a Saint here on earth.

I pray for all saints. Our encouragement to one another makes us stronger here on earth while waiting to see Jesus Christ in the clouds.

Colossians 2:2

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 2:3

In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

May we all grow in grace and charity.

Romans 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

All God's people said AMEN.

Brother Daniel:

I praise God for your response. Grace and peace unto you from our God, the Father in Heaven and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Time is short. We can see 2 Timothy 3 today.

As you know Timothy 4.

I think it is important to do the following:

1. Pray (for others, each other, lost people to be saved, Believers for their holiness until Jesus comes, and ALL Leaders in-charged to do the right thing)

2. Study the Bible ( 2 Timothy 2:15)

Finally sharing our experience helps everyone to see that Jesus Christ is alive and waiting for the fullness of the Gentiles for the glory of God.

Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Ephesians 4:13

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I read most comments on this site and we need to be in one mind:

1 Corinthians 14:33

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

doeth.

Romans 12:16

Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

1 Peter 3:8

Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Philippians 2:2

Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Romans 15:6

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:11

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Thank you for the opportunity to read your comments. Rejoice evermore!

S Spencer:

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Romans 7:19

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Romans 7:20

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:25

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 15:33

Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Thanks Chris. I am very joyful for my mother. She is in the best, most perfect place with the Perfet One!

Actually Alex, I am so joyful! I know she is with our wonderful God in the perfect place that Jesus said in John 14:1- He prepared for us who believe. Her hope in Christ is now fulfilled. I felt the same way when my Dad died 30 + years ago. I will miss her across the years I have left here in this life, but I am confident that I will see her and Dad again when the days God has ordained for me are completed and I am received into the place that our Lord has prepared for me and them. It will be perfect and we will be also.

Gi Gi.. Sorry for your loss...GBU....I remember when my mom died it almost killed me...I wd not go to the funeral home to view her body...It just hurt too much...But you will get over it in time...GBU

So, so sad to get this news, GiGi. Your precious Mother is now relieved from all pain & discomfort & with the Lord Whom she loved & longed for. "With Christ, which is far better". May you & her family receive the Lord's unending Peace & Comfort at this time & for the days ahead. "Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning", in the coming day when we will all be together beholding the Face of our Blessed Lord Jesus.

"When we all get to Heaven, What a day of rejoicing that will be! When we all see Jesus, We'll sing and shout the victory!"

Serita, My Mom died today in the hospital. Last night my husband and I prayed with her. My brother and I sang Amazing Grace over her. And now we trust that she is "moving into" the place Jesus has prepared for her in His Father's house. Jesus is our treasure and heaven is the place of our real "citizenship". I am sorry that you have MS and have matters that hinder you. I pray today that you indeed fall onto the mercy and grace of God to endure whatever suffering He allows in your life and also that He will relieve your suffering, too. We just cannot understand all of what God brings to us but we can always trust Him and rely on Him. I hope your evening goes wonderfully and that you sleep well tonight.

Hi K. I understand that Paul's salutation (or, greetings) is found in Romans 1:1-7. What you're referencing ( Romans 15:14 to 16:27) includes Paul's personal messages & finally his benediction; the actual benediction being Romans 16:25-27).