"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."
Matthew 6:14
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
Ephesians 4:32
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
This is what I hear on the subject we discussed before.
We need to show grace.
There is no perfect church.
So and so was in that (aforementioned) situation and they did so much for the church.
I'm being unloving.
I'm being a gossip.
I just say look to the Word and Scriptures; let God be true and every man a liar ( Romans 3:4).
I would argue that in communion; for instance what others do affects the whole church but I appreciate your listening ear on the subject in that you take the Word seriously.
In regard to the other subject of politics; it does seem they are hinting at least by "turkey day" this stuff may be resolved. Maybe you're right.
My friend did spend several hours today witnessing to someone working on his car. I need to hear these things as it shows he does know the Lord so my time and expense aren't totally wasted; albeit the immaturity is apparent. Ironically he sent me an article today talking about smoking and how you basically can't clean it out without totally gutting a home. Shows he wouldn't want to live here I guess; although my Dad spent all his time upstairs doing that as my mom wouldn't allow it in the house for many years anyway in the downstairs.
I'm thinking of going back to guitar lessons; but have no venue as it were in that regard. I guess you can pray about that and having continued wisdom with coin collecting which has not been as profitable of late. I could seek a second job but am not in need of the money at present. This new church seems to be working well but in the winter is too far away and I don't have a great vehicle in that situation. I can't find anything closer; although the Lord could do that as He did with the one (at first) that I had been attending here; and previously in Pittsburgh even when I couldn't find one on an online search regarding my view of the remarriage issue. (the ones that do which are Mennonite are also into LGB stuff; go figure).
I want to share with you why it is not only unwise but dangerous to blur the distinction between Paul's message and the twelve apostles. God gave Paul a unique dispensation of grace, revealing the "mystery" of the Body of Christ, a truth hidden until his ministry ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). When we blend his message with the kingdom program preached by Peter and the others, we risk corrupting the gospel of grace.
Peter preached to Israel, offering the promised kingdom upon national repentance and baptism ( Acts 2:38; 3:19). Paul preached justification by faith alone apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-9). To confuse these messages is to either add works to grace, or to remove Israel's kingdom promises. Paul warned that adding to his gospel of grace produces "another gospel" ( Galatians 1:6-9), and he pronounced a curse on anyone who preached such.
Blending also robs believers of assurance. If salvation depends partly on works, ordinances, or kingdom requirements, then we can never rest in the finished work of Christ. The beauty of Paul's message is that Christ did it all-our salvation is complete in Him ( Colossians 2:10). Mixing law and grace leaves Christians unstable, unsure if they have done enough, and strips the cross of its sufficiency.
Finally, confusion weakens the testimony of the Church. The Body of Christ is not Israel, nor is it inheriting an earthly kingdom. Our hope is heavenly ( Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:1-4). When we preach Israel's program as our own, we not only deny our identity but also cloud Israel's future promises, making God appear unfaithful.
For these reasons, we must carefully obey 2 Timothy 2:15: rightly divide the word of truth. Blending the programs corrupts the gospel, shakes assurance, and dishonors God's distinct plans.
If there is nothing to divide, why did Paul say to rightly divide the word of truth?
The question of whether Paul preached a different gospel than the other apostles must be handled with careful distinction. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-11, Paul indeed affirms the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the heart of the gospel-truths that Peter and the other apostles also proclaimed. Verse 11 makes clear: "Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed." The core of salvation has always rested on Christ. In that sense, the content of the gospel concerning His person and work was the same.
However, the progressive revelation and the unique stewardship was given to Paul. Paul refers to "my gospel" ( Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8) and "the revelation of the mystery" hidden from ages past but now revealed ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). This mystery concerns the formation of the Body of Christ, composed of both Jew and Gentile without distinction, saved by grace through faith apart from works of the Law ( Ephesians 2:8-9). This was not the focus of Peter's message at Pentecost, where the emphasis was still the kingdom offer to Israel ( Acts 2-3), tied to repentance, baptism, and awaiting the promised restoration.
James, writing to the twelve tribes ( James 1:1), indeed addressed believing Jews struggling to live out their faith amid trial. His emphasis on works demonstrated the reality of faith within Israel's kingdom program. Paul, by contrast, ministered to Gentiles under the dispensation of grace, emphasizing justification apart from works ( Romans 3:28). The apparent tension between James 2 and Paul's letters resolves when we rightly divide the Word ( 2 Timothy 2:15), understanding different audiences and dispensational contexts.
I appreciate your careful observations about James and the Law, but from a dispensational perspective we must carefully note both his audience and his program. James 1:1 makes it clear that his epistle is written "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad." That identifies his readership as Israel, not the Body of Christ. Paul confirms this distinction in Galatians 2:9, where James, Peter, and John agreed to minister to "the circumcision," while Paul was sent to the Gentiles. This is a vital dispensational boundary marker.
You are right that James uses the Law to show the seriousness of sin and the impossibility of keeping it perfectly. Yet his emphasis on "works" still reflects Israel's prophetic, kingdom program, where faith and obedience were tied together under covenant expectations. For example, Jesus in Matthew 5-7 taught that righteousness for Israel's kingdom hope must be lived out, not just professed. James echoes that when he insists that faith without works is dead ( James 2:20). These "works" were not simply the fruit of faith in the Pauline sense, but the evidences of a faith that endured under trial and proved covenant loyalty.
Paul, on the other hand, reveals the mystery program where justification is by grace alone through faith alone apart from works ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-10). For the Body of Christ, works follow salvation as fruit, not as a condition of proving faith for covenant standing. James does not lay out the finished cross-work as the sole basis of justification the way Paul does in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, because his focus is not on the revelation of the mystery but on exhorting Israel's believing remnant to live consistently with their kingdom calling.
Thus, while James highlights the vitality of true faith, dispensationally we must recognize he writes within Israel's program, not Paul's. Both are inspired, but they address distinct audiences under different dispensations-how anyone misses this is beyond me.
The twelve apostles were sent to Israel under the kingdom program ( Matthew 10:5-7; Galatians 2:7-9). Their preaching emphasized repentance, water baptism, and works consistent with faith ( Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; James 2:17-24). For them, faith that did not produce works was considered dead. So, none of the twelve are recorded as preaching "faith without works."
The Apostle Paul
Paul, however, is unique. He is the only apostle who clearly taught justification by faith alone, without works of the law.
Examples:
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." ( Romans 3:28)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works..." ( Ephesians 2:8-9)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:5)
Paul preached a new revelation of grace ( Romans 16:25; Galatians 1:11-12), distinct from the kingdom message of the twelve. His gospel revealed that salvation is entirely a gift, apart from law-keeping or works.
The twelve never preached "faith without works." Their message tied faith with repentance and obedience under Israel's covenant program.
Paul alone preached faith without works-the gospel of the grace of God for Jew and Gentile alike.
Question...Should works follow after we are saved
Yes - but it's very important to keep the order straight.
Salvation Is by Grace Alone-Period!
Paul makes it absolutely clear: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." ( Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved by faith alone in Christ's finished work, not by anything we do before or after.
This is not intended to spark a debate; rather, it is something to consider when studying Paul's and James's teachings. Paul emphasizes that salvation comes solely by God's grace through faith in Jesus, and we are not justified by the deeds or works of the law, as seen in Romans 3:28 and Ephesians 2:8-9. We must understand that nothing we do can earn our salvation. We are not under the law but under grace.
Do they contradict? When we read and study Scripture, we must do so in its proper context. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.
James does not claim that works of the law are what justify us; rather, the results of genuine faith, such as charity, are what validate it, as shown in James 2:15-16. Paul teaches that salvation is not earned by any effort of ours or by following religious law. James is not opposing salvation by grace through faith; instead, he emphasizes that works are evidence of a changed life characterized by love, mercy, and obedience.
Paul speaks the same but different wording in 1 Corinthians 13.
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 3:31"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
2 Corinthians 3:3 "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."
John 5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
I appreciate what you've written here. It is very insightful, and I agree that the Apostle Paul never endorsed living a lifestyle of sin. Even though he preached grace, living a lifestyle of sin is not an option.
Paul's teachings consistently hold that grace is not a license for sin but the foundation for a transformed life in Christ. He declares that believers are justified by faith apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28), yet he also emphasizes that those saved by grace are called to "walk worthy of the vocation" ( Ephesians 4:1). In Romans 6, he confronts the idea that grace allows sin, saying, "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid." Instead, he teaches that believers, having been identified with Christ's death and resurrection, should reckon themselves "dead to sin" and "alive unto God." Paul urges a life led by the Spirit rather than the flesh ( Galatians 5:16-25), contrasting works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit. To the Corinthians, he stresses that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, not to be defiled by immorality. In Colossians and Ephesians, he calls for putting off the old man and putting on the new, shaped by love, holiness, and forgiveness. Paul never sets aside grace; instead, he frames it as the power that both saves and enables holy living. His letters reveal a consistent pattern: salvation is God's gift, but it should manifest in sanctification, where believers display Christ's character in daily conduct. Thus, Paul harmonizes justification by faith with the call to a Spirit-led, disciplined, and godly lifestyle.
From a dispensational perspective, the tension between James 2:24 ("by works a man is justified, and not by faith only") and Paul's clear statement in Romans 3:28 ("a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law") is resolved by recognizing the distinct audiences and purposes of their writings. James 1:1 explicitly addresses "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad"-Israel in dispersion. His emphasis on works demonstrating faith fits Israel's prophetic and kingdom program, where faith had to be validated by works (cf. Matt. 24:13; Acts 3:19-21). James is not laying out the gospel of grace as revealed to Paul, but reinforcing Israel's covenant responsibility of faith proven by deeds.
Paul, by contrast, reveals the "mystery" gospel ( Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:1-9), hidden until given to him, where justification is by faith alone in Christ's finished work ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4). This is not "overlaying bias," but taking Scripture in its own stated context. All Scripture is indeed inspired and profitable ( 2 Tim. 3:16), but "profitable" does not mean all Scripture is written to us. For example, Leviticus laws or temple sacrifices are not binding today, yet they instruct us about God's holiness. In the same way, James is for our learning, but Paul's epistles are uniquely to the Body of Christ concerning salvation and justification in this dispensation.
Dispensationalism does not diminish the whole Bible; it respects God's progressive revelation. To blend James and Paul as if both are directly prescribing doctrine for the Church today obscures the very clarity Paul magnifies: salvation apart from works. The Spirit does not leave us with contradiction-He calls us to "rightly divide the word of truth" ( 2 Tim. 2:15).
"Context is the anchor that keeps Bible study from drifting into speculation. Every verse has a setting: who wrote it, to whom it was written, what was happening historically, and what came before and after. Pulling a single phrase without its frame can lead to contradictions or even false doctrines. For example, James 2:24 says a man is justified by works, while Romans 3:28 declares justification by faith without works. At first glance, these clash-but context shows James is addressing Israel's faith under law, while Paul is revealing justification in Christ apart from law in this dispensation."
Here we have a quote from one member which we shall analyze so we may know what we are up against. Context is the framework of God and man. So All scripture is given to man, " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:/That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."(2 Tim.3.16-17) The purpose? 'For instruction in righteousness.' and it is what we ought to keep in focus. Without Christ this nstruction is meaningless. Jesus Christ who of God has become our wisdom, sanctiification etc. So contextt of verses must be to God and Jesus Christ. What James or Paul has written is not infallible since they were referring to the social conditions of their day. But their doctrine is in Christ. Justification by faith explains entering into the God's rest. Where shall we place the works, is it entering into rest? Or is it into abiding in Christ? Or is it in the abundance of fruits. Dispensation is the the little pebble slipped into the shoes of a believer.
Context is the anchor that keeps Bible study from drifting into speculation. Every verse has a setting: who wrote it, to whom it was written, what was happening historically, and what came before and after. Pulling a single phrase without its frame can lead to contradictions or even false doctrines. For example, James 2:24 says a man is justified by works, while Romans 3:28 declares justification by faith without works. At first glance, these clash-but context shows James is addressing Israel's faith under law, while Paul is revealing justification in Christ apart from law in this dispensation.
Interpreting scripture with scripture means letting the Bible explain itself. God's Word is a unified whole, and comparing passages sheds light on difficult texts. Paul himself appealed to the Old Testament to confirm truths ( Romans 4 using Abraham as an example). This method guards against personal bias by ensuring one verse is not isolated, but harmonized with the rest of God's revelation.
Without context and cross-referencing, readers may force their own meaning into the text. But with them, clarity emerges, and God's progressive revelation becomes plain: Israel's promises remain, while the Body of Christ has its distinct calling. In short, context and comparing scripture with scripture protects truth, sharpens understanding, and preserves God's intended message.
Context is important, and scripture must always interpret scripture.
Romans 2:13 declares, "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." At first glance, it seems Paul teaches justification by works, but in context his argument is different. In Romans 1-3, Paul is laying out the universal guilt of both Gentiles and Jews. In chapter 1, Gentiles are shown guilty for sinning against conscience and creation's witness. In chapter 2, Paul turns to the Jew, who boasted in possessing the law. His point is clear: merely hearing the law read in synagogue does not make a person righteous. God's standard is perfect obedience. Thus, if one actually kept the whole law, that person would indeed be justified. But Paul quickly demonstrates that none do. Romans 3:9-20 drives this conclusion: "There is none righteous, no, not one for by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified." Therefore, Romans 2:13 functions as a principle, not as an attainable path. It exposes hypocrisy and proves that the law cannot justify, only condemn.
This fits the pattern of Israel's program. Under the law of Moses, the promise was "do and live" ( Lev. 18:5). But Israel failed, and the law testified against them, shutting every mouth. Paul's gospel then reveals the only way men can be justified: "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe" ( Rom. 3:21-22). The "doers" principle stands hypothetically to silence Jewish pride, setting up the unveiling of grace. So, Romans 2:13 is not offering salvation by law-keeping, but proving that true justification is found only in Christ, apart from the law.
Exodus 19:3-6, "And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Romans 3:19,20, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
2 Corinthians 3:7-9, "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."
Galatians 3:10-13, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." Onto Page 2.
I agree Gerald, "as Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD" ( Genesis 6:8), so we find that the same LORD has always been a gracious God to all. The Nature of God has never changed: God has always shown and given Grace to those whose hearts are obedient and turned towards Him, and now so much more in Christ that all may hear of and accept His great Salvation.
But none, not a one, has ever been accepted or saved on the basis of their obedience to the Law, for "by the law is the knowledge of sin" ( Romans 3:20). The Law was given only to Israel, as His chosen people, that they may know who this God is & His Holy requirements for them, as He rescued them from their bondage in Egypt. Not only the Law, but of circumcision, were the impositions placed upon them which truly separated His people from all others.
The Law couldn't save them then or now, and yes, it ought to have convicted them of their sin and inability to obey and please God under it. But they rejected God's free offer of salvation in Christ Jesus, as most do now, preferring to bask under the Law and their election in hope of God's Approval and Acceptance. What a sad and dreadful day when they see the One "whom they have pierced" coming in the clouds ( Zechariah 12:10), realizing that all this while they held onto a false belief and hope. Blessings.
I completely agree with you. One of the major misconceptions today is the true meaning of "grace." From a biblical standpoint, grace is unmerited favor.
The Law of Moses revealed our inadequacy-how despicable, miserable, and sinful our ways truly are. However, it did not provide the power to overcome these sinful tendencies; it merely exposed the problem. No one could perfectly keep the law ( Romans 3:12-20, Galatians 3:19, Romans 7:10). As Scripture says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 3:20, Romans 7:13-14). Jesus Himself highlighted this when He said, "There is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust." This referred to the Law of Moses, which the Israelites relied upon, yet it only revealed their inability to live righteously ( John 5:45-46).
Grace came to assist those who were unable to keep the law, enabling them to fulfill it. Grace does not make the law void; rather, it establishes the law by empowering us to obey it. As Paul explained, "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit" ( Romans 8:3-4).
This principle is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. A traveler was wounded by thieves . The priests and Levites-representing the law-saw him but could not help. The Good Samaritan (Jesus), however, freely offered aid-representing grace-healing the man from his wounds, which symbolize sin. We partake in this grace by receiving the Spirit of Christ, which helps to walk according to the Spirit rather than our sinful flesh and desires.
The Holy Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of holiness. One cannot continue in sin and claim to possess the Holy Spirit. Grace delivers us from sin; it does not provide permission to remain in it ( Romans 6:1-2). Paul even warned against this attitude in Romans 3:8, where some falsely claimed that continuing in sin was a way of doing good.
This no doubt will be a lengthy series of postings but it is essential. The first thing we need to determine is what exactly is salvation? We can start with John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Now this seems to be perfectly clear and I don't wish to complicate the basic principle here. Let us dissect this verse to look at all the components.
God so loved the world. Now God is perfectly righteous and just and man is completely without hope and all have gone astray according to numerous passages; there is none righteous no not even one ( Romans 3:10 but with many other passages in Psalms in particular in the O.T. supporting this-see Psalm 19). God created man therefore had compassion and a vested interest over every soul. For God to atone for men's sins the Son of God had to enter the picture to come to earth as a man as part of God's eternal counsel and foreknowledge to remedy this situation and put us into right standing anew after the fall of Adam and his race. God couldn't look on sin so He turned away for the moment Christ had to take on all of our sin and be the sacrificial atonement. Jesus only did and said the words of the Father and those who the Father chose or elected. This principal is covered in the book of John in which I did a lengthy study of this concept of Predestination a couple years back.
Sent His only begotten Son. That is covered in the above commentary so I will move on.
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
This involves more than just believing He was a good man. Mark 10:18 dispells any sentimenality we may have of Christ being a good man because it so understates His deity that it renders it more harmful than good. Believing in Him means believing the atonement was fully satisfying God's requirements to save man forever.
You're not paraphrasing what I'm saying. you are restructuring what I'm saying.
You asked; "Did God looked down the corridors of time and saw something uniquely inherent in me that He did not see in others who do not become saved.
No Bible Alone, that's not what I'm saying.
However, let's entertain this the way you quoted it.
You asked me about Romans 3:10-18 which is a quote Paul is using from the OT prophets.
Psalms14:1-3.
Psalms 53.
Psalms 5:9.
Isaiah 59:7-8.
and Psalms 36:1.
Here you see God looking down the corridors of time to see and deliver a message from these Prophets that is relevant today.
God looked down the corridors of time to see we all would need a savior.
God looked down the corridors of time to see Adam would sin and preordained Christ as the Lamb of God to sacrifice to take away the penalty for sin.
Bible Alone I don't believe God looks down the corridors of time.
God doesn't look down the corridors of time. God is outside of time altogether. He sees the beginning and the end simultaneously and he counsels from that position.
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Thats the foreknowledge of God being performed.
The Bible repeatedly states that God is a righteous judge and will judge the world with righteousness, meaning his judgment will be fair, just, and morally perfect.
That certainly makes more sense than a loving and just God looking down the corridors of time at a lost world that he knew would be lost and decide he's going to open the ears of a few to hear the Gospel and send the rest to everlasting fire.
You said Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation.
I was stating turning to God IS repentance!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case It is unbelief.
You asked; Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Bible Alone you are talking about turning from something "sin" of some sort.
In my postings I emphasized turning "to someone" God! When you do that, you have turned from something. "Unbelief"
I did that because I heard and believed, and he saved me.
I believe that I am a sinner and in need of Christ! a perfect sacrifice who died on the cross for the whole world and rose again the third day.
As for Romans 3:10-18
You asked; "How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to me? Or does it not?
Yes, those verses "did" apply to me as well as the whole world as stated in verses 19-20.
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
However, what applies to me and everyone that is saved today is verses 21-22.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God WHICH IS BY FAITH OF JESUS UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
FAITH OF JESUS!! That is what caused me to believe!
If it was my faith I wouldn't believe, and it would be considered a work.
If I may paraphrase, you seem to be saying that when God looked down the corridors of time He saw something uniquely inherent in you that He did not see in others who do not become saved. He saw that you, of your own free will, would accept the Salvation offered to you that others would reject. And that based on that foreknowledge, God chose to save you. But because He did not see that characteristic in others, that inclination, He chose not to save them.
Please correct me if I have stated your understanding incorrectly.
I would then ask; How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to you? Or does it not?
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Ezekiel 36:24-31
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Hello "The Bible Alone" and thanks for sharing that and since you addressed it to both "Mr Spencer and others", I would like to comment if I may.
You gave Romans 3:9-18 (taken from Psalm 14:1-4) to show that both Jew and Gentile are under sin, that no one can escape this awful reality & bondage.
You also quoted Romans 9:14-16,22, presumably to support the belief that it is God Who shows mercy on those whom He elects to be His people. When we read Romans chapter 9, we see Paul agonizing over his kinsmen. They were indeed blessed, having received the Law, the adoption, the Covenants, & the Promises, yet still fell far short before their God. Through Isaac & his seed would the Promise be established and not through Ishmael (son of the flesh).
Again, God selects (or, elects) Jacob over Esau, that the "elder shall serve the younger", which seems totally incompatible to the law of inheritance & rights, and seemingly unrighteous of God to make such an appointment. Paul then goes on to give the example of Moses ( Exodus 33:13-19), where God says in v19, "and (I) will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
I share this to show that this passage has nothing to do with salvation from sin, but of election of Israel through Abraham, Isaac & Jacob (to the exclusion of all others). And with Moses, a special granting of Mercy to have a limited sight of God's Glory. So the LORD could say to him that He would be gracious and merciful to Moses to reveal His Glory, as He could do to some and not to others. Onto Page 2.
God did not Predestinate certain individuals to be saved BECAUSE He KNEW they would come to Him. This is what God KNEW about any and all of mankind, including you and me:
Romans 3:9-18 9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
God KNEW that NO ONE, let me say that again, NO ONE would come to Him apart from His Sovereign Mercy in PREDESTINATING a Remnant chosen by His Election of Grace, throughout time and throughout the World, to be saved. Why? because apart from God's action in salvation, we are ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD and in Rebellion against God in Body and Soul.
Romans 9:14-16 14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Salvation has nothing to do with "accepting Christ". Salvation is 100% the Work of God. Any Church today will give you a formula as to "how we can become saved":That is not the Gospel of the Bible.
We all by nature are Spiritually Dead. Just like the Physically Dead can do nothing to raise themselves to Physical Life, we can do nothing to raise ourself to Spiritual Life. God must do all the work of Saving us.
He must have chosen us to be saved before He created the World, Election.
He must have paid the price demanded by His Law for all of our sins, Eternal Death.
He must apply that Salvation to our life by giving us a New Resurrected Soul, Born Again.
We read in Romans 3:10-18 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
So what can we do?
We may cry to God for Mercy, like the Publican,"God be merciful to me a sinner".
We may plead with God for a "broken and contrite heart" which He will not despise ( Psalm 51:17).
We can place ourselves in an environment where God is saving;"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." ( Rom 10:17).
We can begin to turn away from our sins, repentance, and begin to be more obedient to God's Law, the Bible; recognizing that none of this will save us.
There is great Hope for Salvation in our Day. But we must "wait upon God", if it might be His will to save us.
Read Jonah 3 and 4, Salvation of the Ninevites. Read Ezekiel 36:24-32.
Amen Lbooth1955. Thanks for that added information on the distribution of Tithes. As well, your original question could be extended to: 'If tithing is not required by those under the New Covenant, what of those Laws, including the Decalogue that were given solely to Israel to introduce them to God's Holy requirements, as they found freedom from Egyptian bondage & to be settled in the Promised Land?'
Many believers maintain that we need to obey the Decalogue, in spite of the condemnation that it brings when we fail to "keep the whole law" ( James 2:10). I sense that these folk are considering this subject at the superficial level, i.e. God has spoken, and "the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12), so it remains current & very much applicable for us today to follow. And this would, or should, include keeping the Sabbath, which strangely very few do. And let's not include circumcision.
Whereas, like the Tithes and the hundreds of commandments, ceremonial laws, & the sacrificial system given to Israel to follow and perform meticulously, none of it bears upon us in Christ in any way, to us who have been given new life, under a new abiding Covenant, and God's eternal and comprehensive Laws directed to each of our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Israel of old determined their actions according to the Law that they were given, which then affected their conscience and sacrifice was made each year. Our actions & responses are according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit, which go far far beyond anything that the Old Law could ever do: it only brought condemnation and then the need for sacrifices to stay God's Hand of Judgement. Animal sacrifices were temporary and weak at best; but the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God is eternal and completely forgives and justifies ( Acts 13:38,39; Romans 3:23-28). Just thought to give a little addendum to your original question. Blessings.
Then Ezekiel chap 37 shows that the nation of Israel will be gathered back into the land in a state of unbelief first of all and after that, God will give them spiritual life. These prophecies and many others are literal prophecies concerning Israel alone. The nation of Israel was dispersed amongst all the nations starting in AD 70. They were literally being re-gathered and once again became a nation again in AD 1948. Prophecies will continue to be fulfilled where Israel will continue as a nation & one day come under the New Covenant and the Kingdom that they were always promised.
Other prophecies such as Zechariah chapter 12 and 14 cannot mean anything other than Israel. And these passages, which have not been fulfilled yet, show that God is going to protect, cleanse, and install his Kingdom there.
c) RT goes against New Testament prophecy.
Prophecy such as Matt chap 24 and the Book of the Revelation show that the nation of Israel plays a key role in the end times. God has not finished with them but will fulfil his prophecies and be faithful to His Own Name & Word.
d) RT goes against the very Character of God.
Paul wrote it well in Romans 3:1-4: "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."
This is a very important point: if we believe that God will not fulfil His promises to the nation of Israel; or to say, that God has taken away His promises & Israel's position and given them to another people, this must cast great doubt over both the Character and Sovereignty of God. To Page 5.
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."
Matthew 6:14
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
Ephesians 4:32
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Blessings
We need to show grace.
There is no perfect church.
So and so was in that (aforementioned) situation and they did so much for the church.
I'm being unloving.
I'm being a gossip.
I just say look to the Word and Scriptures; let God be true and every man a liar ( Romans 3:4).
I would argue that in communion; for instance what others do affects the whole church but I appreciate your listening ear on the subject in that you take the Word seriously.
In regard to the other subject of politics; it does seem they are hinting at least by "turkey day" this stuff may be resolved. Maybe you're right.
My friend did spend several hours today witnessing to someone working on his car. I need to hear these things as it shows he does know the Lord so my time and expense aren't totally wasted; albeit the immaturity is apparent. Ironically he sent me an article today talking about smoking and how you basically can't clean it out without totally gutting a home. Shows he wouldn't want to live here I guess; although my Dad spent all his time upstairs doing that as my mom wouldn't allow it in the house for many years anyway in the downstairs.
I'm thinking of going back to guitar lessons; but have no venue as it were in that regard. I guess you can pray about that and having continued wisdom with coin collecting which has not been as profitable of late. I could seek a second job but am not in need of the money at present. This new church seems to be working well but in the winter is too far away and I don't have a great vehicle in that situation. I can't find anything closer; although the Lord could do that as He did with the one (at first) that I had been attending here; and previously in Pittsburgh even when I couldn't find one on an online search regarding my view of the remarriage issue. (the ones that do which are Mennonite are also into LGB stuff; go figure).
Glad you're my friend even if far away/incognito.
Romans 3:31
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Blessings
I want to share with you why it is not only unwise but dangerous to blur the distinction between Paul's message and the twelve apostles. God gave Paul a unique dispensation of grace, revealing the "mystery" of the Body of Christ, a truth hidden until his ministry ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). When we blend his message with the kingdom program preached by Peter and the others, we risk corrupting the gospel of grace.
Peter preached to Israel, offering the promised kingdom upon national repentance and baptism ( Acts 2:38; 3:19). Paul preached justification by faith alone apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-9). To confuse these messages is to either add works to grace, or to remove Israel's kingdom promises. Paul warned that adding to his gospel of grace produces "another gospel" ( Galatians 1:6-9), and he pronounced a curse on anyone who preached such.
Blending also robs believers of assurance. If salvation depends partly on works, ordinances, or kingdom requirements, then we can never rest in the finished work of Christ. The beauty of Paul's message is that Christ did it all-our salvation is complete in Him ( Colossians 2:10). Mixing law and grace leaves Christians unstable, unsure if they have done enough, and strips the cross of its sufficiency.
Finally, confusion weakens the testimony of the Church. The Body of Christ is not Israel, nor is it inheriting an earthly kingdom. Our hope is heavenly ( Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:1-4). When we preach Israel's program as our own, we not only deny our identity but also cloud Israel's future promises, making God appear unfaithful.
For these reasons, we must carefully obey 2 Timothy 2:15: rightly divide the word of truth. Blending the programs corrupts the gospel, shakes assurance, and dishonors God's distinct plans.
If there is nothing to divide, why did Paul say to rightly divide the word of truth?
G&P
However, the progressive revelation and the unique stewardship was given to Paul. Paul refers to "my gospel" ( Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8) and "the revelation of the mystery" hidden from ages past but now revealed ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). This mystery concerns the formation of the Body of Christ, composed of both Jew and Gentile without distinction, saved by grace through faith apart from works of the Law ( Ephesians 2:8-9). This was not the focus of Peter's message at Pentecost, where the emphasis was still the kingdom offer to Israel ( Acts 2-3), tied to repentance, baptism, and awaiting the promised restoration.
James, writing to the twelve tribes ( James 1:1), indeed addressed believing Jews struggling to live out their faith amid trial. His emphasis on works demonstrated the reality of faith within Israel's kingdom program. Paul, by contrast, ministered to Gentiles under the dispensation of grace, emphasizing justification apart from works ( Romans 3:28). The apparent tension between James 2 and Paul's letters resolves when we rightly divide the Word ( 2 Timothy 2:15), understanding different audiences and dispensational contexts.
see pg2
I appreciate your careful observations about James and the Law, but from a dispensational perspective we must carefully note both his audience and his program. James 1:1 makes it clear that his epistle is written "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad." That identifies his readership as Israel, not the Body of Christ. Paul confirms this distinction in Galatians 2:9, where James, Peter, and John agreed to minister to "the circumcision," while Paul was sent to the Gentiles. This is a vital dispensational boundary marker.
You are right that James uses the Law to show the seriousness of sin and the impossibility of keeping it perfectly. Yet his emphasis on "works" still reflects Israel's prophetic, kingdom program, where faith and obedience were tied together under covenant expectations. For example, Jesus in Matthew 5-7 taught that righteousness for Israel's kingdom hope must be lived out, not just professed. James echoes that when he insists that faith without works is dead ( James 2:20). These "works" were not simply the fruit of faith in the Pauline sense, but the evidences of a faith that endured under trial and proved covenant loyalty.
Paul, on the other hand, reveals the mystery program where justification is by grace alone through faith alone apart from works ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-10). For the Body of Christ, works follow salvation as fruit, not as a condition of proving faith for covenant standing. James does not lay out the finished cross-work as the sole basis of justification the way Paul does in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, because his focus is not on the revelation of the mystery but on exhorting Israel's believing remnant to live consistently with their kingdom calling.
Thus, while James highlights the vitality of true faith, dispensationally we must recognize he writes within Israel's program, not Paul's. Both are inspired, but they address distinct audiences under different dispensations-how anyone misses this is beyond me.
G&P
The twelve apostles were sent to Israel under the kingdom program ( Matthew 10:5-7; Galatians 2:7-9). Their preaching emphasized repentance, water baptism, and works consistent with faith ( Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; James 2:17-24). For them, faith that did not produce works was considered dead. So, none of the twelve are recorded as preaching "faith without works."
The Apostle Paul
Paul, however, is unique. He is the only apostle who clearly taught justification by faith alone, without works of the law.
Examples:
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." ( Romans 3:28)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works..." ( Ephesians 2:8-9)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:5)
Paul preached a new revelation of grace ( Romans 16:25; Galatians 1:11-12), distinct from the kingdom message of the twelve. His gospel revealed that salvation is entirely a gift, apart from law-keeping or works.
The twelve never preached "faith without works." Their message tied faith with repentance and obedience under Israel's covenant program.
Paul alone preached faith without works-the gospel of the grace of God for Jew and Gentile alike.
Question...Should works follow after we are saved
Yes - but it's very important to keep the order straight.
Salvation Is by Grace Alone-Period!
Paul makes it absolutely clear: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." ( Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved by faith alone in Christ's finished work, not by anything we do before or after.
see pg 2
This is not intended to spark a debate; rather, it is something to consider when studying Paul's and James's teachings. Paul emphasizes that salvation comes solely by God's grace through faith in Jesus, and we are not justified by the deeds or works of the law, as seen in Romans 3:28 and Ephesians 2:8-9. We must understand that nothing we do can earn our salvation. We are not under the law but under grace.
Do they contradict? When we read and study Scripture, we must do so in its proper context. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.
James does not claim that works of the law are what justify us; rather, the results of genuine faith, such as charity, are what validate it, as shown in James 2:15-16. Paul teaches that salvation is not earned by any effort of ours or by following religious law. James is not opposing salvation by grace through faith; instead, he emphasizes that works are evidence of a changed life characterized by love, mercy, and obedience.
Paul speaks the same but different wording in 1 Corinthians 13.
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
God bless,
RLW
Romans 3:31
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Blessings
Nay in all things we are more than things, we are more than conquerors through him that love us- Romans 3:23
Romans 3:31"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
2 Corinthians 3:3 "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."
John 5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Blessings
I appreciate what you've written here. It is very insightful, and I agree that the Apostle Paul never endorsed living a lifestyle of sin. Even though he preached grace, living a lifestyle of sin is not an option.
Paul's teachings consistently hold that grace is not a license for sin but the foundation for a transformed life in Christ. He declares that believers are justified by faith apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28), yet he also emphasizes that those saved by grace are called to "walk worthy of the vocation" ( Ephesians 4:1). In Romans 6, he confronts the idea that grace allows sin, saying, "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid." Instead, he teaches that believers, having been identified with Christ's death and resurrection, should reckon themselves "dead to sin" and "alive unto God." Paul urges a life led by the Spirit rather than the flesh ( Galatians 5:16-25), contrasting works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit. To the Corinthians, he stresses that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, not to be defiled by immorality. In Colossians and Ephesians, he calls for putting off the old man and putting on the new, shaped by love, holiness, and forgiveness. Paul never sets aside grace; instead, he frames it as the power that both saves and enables holy living. His letters reveal a consistent pattern: salvation is God's gift, but it should manifest in sanctification, where believers display Christ's character in daily conduct. Thus, Paul harmonizes justification by faith with the call to a Spirit-led, disciplined, and godly lifestyle.
Grace and Peace.
From a dispensational perspective, the tension between James 2:24 ("by works a man is justified, and not by faith only") and Paul's clear statement in Romans 3:28 ("a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law") is resolved by recognizing the distinct audiences and purposes of their writings. James 1:1 explicitly addresses "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad"-Israel in dispersion. His emphasis on works demonstrating faith fits Israel's prophetic and kingdom program, where faith had to be validated by works (cf. Matt. 24:13; Acts 3:19-21). James is not laying out the gospel of grace as revealed to Paul, but reinforcing Israel's covenant responsibility of faith proven by deeds.
Paul, by contrast, reveals the "mystery" gospel ( Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:1-9), hidden until given to him, where justification is by faith alone in Christ's finished work ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4). This is not "overlaying bias," but taking Scripture in its own stated context. All Scripture is indeed inspired and profitable ( 2 Tim. 3:16), but "profitable" does not mean all Scripture is written to us. For example, Leviticus laws or temple sacrifices are not binding today, yet they instruct us about God's holiness. In the same way, James is for our learning, but Paul's epistles are uniquely to the Body of Christ concerning salvation and justification in this dispensation.
Dispensationalism does not diminish the whole Bible; it respects God's progressive revelation. To blend James and Paul as if both are directly prescribing doctrine for the Church today obscures the very clarity Paul magnifies: salvation apart from works. The Spirit does not leave us with contradiction-He calls us to "rightly divide the word of truth" ( 2 Tim. 2:15).
I hope this helps!
Grace and Peace.
Here we have a quote from one member which we shall analyze so we may know what we are up against. Context is the framework of God and man. So All scripture is given to man, " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:/That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."(2 Tim.3.16-17) The purpose? 'For instruction in righteousness.' and it is what we ought to keep in focus. Without Christ this nstruction is meaningless. Jesus Christ who of God has become our wisdom, sanctiification etc. So contextt of verses must be to God and Jesus Christ. What James or Paul has written is not infallible since they were referring to the social conditions of their day. But their doctrine is in Christ. Justification by faith explains entering into the God's rest. Where shall we place the works, is it entering into rest? Or is it into abiding in Christ? Or is it in the abundance of fruits. Dispensation is the the little pebble slipped into the shoes of a believer.
Food for thought about context!
Context is the anchor that keeps Bible study from drifting into speculation. Every verse has a setting: who wrote it, to whom it was written, what was happening historically, and what came before and after. Pulling a single phrase without its frame can lead to contradictions or even false doctrines. For example, James 2:24 says a man is justified by works, while Romans 3:28 declares justification by faith without works. At first glance, these clash-but context shows James is addressing Israel's faith under law, while Paul is revealing justification in Christ apart from law in this dispensation.
Interpreting scripture with scripture means letting the Bible explain itself. God's Word is a unified whole, and comparing passages sheds light on difficult texts. Paul himself appealed to the Old Testament to confirm truths ( Romans 4 using Abraham as an example). This method guards against personal bias by ensuring one verse is not isolated, but harmonized with the rest of God's revelation.
Without context and cross-referencing, readers may force their own meaning into the text. But with them, clarity emerges, and God's progressive revelation becomes plain: Israel's promises remain, while the Body of Christ has its distinct calling. In short, context and comparing scripture with scripture protects truth, sharpens understanding, and preserves God's intended message.
Grace and Peace.
Context is important, and scripture must always interpret scripture.
Romans 2:13 declares, "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." At first glance, it seems Paul teaches justification by works, but in context his argument is different. In Romans 1-3, Paul is laying out the universal guilt of both Gentiles and Jews. In chapter 1, Gentiles are shown guilty for sinning against conscience and creation's witness. In chapter 2, Paul turns to the Jew, who boasted in possessing the law. His point is clear: merely hearing the law read in synagogue does not make a person righteous. God's standard is perfect obedience. Thus, if one actually kept the whole law, that person would indeed be justified. But Paul quickly demonstrates that none do. Romans 3:9-20 drives this conclusion: "There is none righteous, no, not one for by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified." Therefore, Romans 2:13 functions as a principle, not as an attainable path. It exposes hypocrisy and proves that the law cannot justify, only condemn.
This fits the pattern of Israel's program. Under the law of Moses, the promise was "do and live" ( Lev. 18:5). But Israel failed, and the law testified against them, shutting every mouth. Paul's gospel then reveals the only way men can be justified: "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe" ( Rom. 3:21-22). The "doers" principle stands hypothetically to silence Jewish pride, setting up the unveiling of grace. So, Romans 2:13 is not offering salvation by law-keeping, but proving that true justification is found only in Christ, apart from the law.
Grace and Peace.
Exodus 19:3-6, "And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Romans 3:19,20, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
2 Corinthians 3:7-9, "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."
Galatians 3:10-13, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." Onto Page 2.
But none, not a one, has ever been accepted or saved on the basis of their obedience to the Law, for "by the law is the knowledge of sin" ( Romans 3:20). The Law was given only to Israel, as His chosen people, that they may know who this God is & His Holy requirements for them, as He rescued them from their bondage in Egypt. Not only the Law, but of circumcision, were the impositions placed upon them which truly separated His people from all others.
The Law couldn't save them then or now, and yes, it ought to have convicted them of their sin and inability to obey and please God under it. But they rejected God's free offer of salvation in Christ Jesus, as most do now, preferring to bask under the Law and their election in hope of God's Approval and Acceptance. What a sad and dreadful day when they see the One "whom they have pierced" coming in the clouds ( Zechariah 12:10), realizing that all this while they held onto a false belief and hope. Blessings.
The Law of Moses revealed our inadequacy-how despicable, miserable, and sinful our ways truly are. However, it did not provide the power to overcome these sinful tendencies; it merely exposed the problem. No one could perfectly keep the law ( Romans 3:12-20, Galatians 3:19, Romans 7:10). As Scripture says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 3:20, Romans 7:13-14). Jesus Himself highlighted this when He said, "There is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust." This referred to the Law of Moses, which the Israelites relied upon, yet it only revealed their inability to live righteously ( John 5:45-46).
Grace came to assist those who were unable to keep the law, enabling them to fulfill it. Grace does not make the law void; rather, it establishes the law by empowering us to obey it. As Paul explained, "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit" ( Romans 8:3-4).
This principle is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. A traveler was wounded by thieves . The priests and Levites-representing the law-saw him but could not help. The Good Samaritan (Jesus), however, freely offered aid-representing grace-healing the man from his wounds, which symbolize sin. We partake in this grace by receiving the Spirit of Christ, which helps to walk according to the Spirit rather than our sinful flesh and desires.
The Holy Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of holiness. One cannot continue in sin and claim to possess the Holy Spirit. Grace delivers us from sin; it does not provide permission to remain in it ( Romans 6:1-2). Paul even warned against this attitude in Romans 3:8, where some falsely claimed that continuing in sin was a way of doing good.
This no doubt will be a lengthy series of postings but it is essential. The first thing we need to determine is what exactly is salvation? We can start with John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Now this seems to be perfectly clear and I don't wish to complicate the basic principle here. Let us dissect this verse to look at all the components.
God so loved the world. Now God is perfectly righteous and just and man is completely without hope and all have gone astray according to numerous passages; there is none righteous no not even one ( Romans 3:10 but with many other passages in Psalms in particular in the O.T. supporting this-see Psalm 19). God created man therefore had compassion and a vested interest over every soul. For God to atone for men's sins the Son of God had to enter the picture to come to earth as a man as part of God's eternal counsel and foreknowledge to remedy this situation and put us into right standing anew after the fall of Adam and his race. God couldn't look on sin so He turned away for the moment Christ had to take on all of our sin and be the sacrificial atonement. Jesus only did and said the words of the Father and those who the Father chose or elected. This principal is covered in the book of John in which I did a lengthy study of this concept of Predestination a couple years back.
Sent His only begotten Son. That is covered in the above commentary so I will move on.
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
This involves more than just believing He was a good man. Mark 10:18 dispells any sentimenality we may have of Christ being a good man because it so understates His deity that it renders it more harmful than good. Believing in Him means believing the atonement was fully satisfying God's requirements to save man forever.
Part 2.
You're not paraphrasing what I'm saying. you are restructuring what I'm saying.
You asked; "Did God looked down the corridors of time and saw something uniquely inherent in me that He did not see in others who do not become saved.
No Bible Alone, that's not what I'm saying.
However, let's entertain this the way you quoted it.
You asked me about Romans 3:10-18 which is a quote Paul is using from the OT prophets.
Psalms14:1-3.
Psalms 53.
Psalms 5:9.
Isaiah 59:7-8.
and Psalms 36:1.
Here you see God looking down the corridors of time to see and deliver a message from these Prophets that is relevant today.
God looked down the corridors of time to see we all would need a savior.
God looked down the corridors of time to see Adam would sin and preordained Christ as the Lamb of God to sacrifice to take away the penalty for sin.
Bible Alone I don't believe God looks down the corridors of time.
God doesn't look down the corridors of time. God is outside of time altogether. He sees the beginning and the end simultaneously and he counsels from that position.
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Thats the foreknowledge of God being performed.
The Bible repeatedly states that God is a righteous judge and will judge the world with righteousness, meaning his judgment will be fair, just, and morally perfect.
That certainly makes more sense than a loving and just God looking down the corridors of time at a lost world that he knew would be lost and decide he's going to open the ears of a few to hear the Gospel and send the rest to everlasting fire.
Blessings.
Page 1.
Thanks for responding.
You said Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation.
I was stating turning to God IS repentance!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case It is unbelief.
You asked; Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Bible Alone you are talking about turning from something "sin" of some sort.
In my postings I emphasized turning "to someone" God! When you do that, you have turned from something. "Unbelief"
I did that because I heard and believed, and he saved me.
I believe that I am a sinner and in need of Christ! a perfect sacrifice who died on the cross for the whole world and rose again the third day.
As for Romans 3:10-18
You asked; "How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to me? Or does it not?
Yes, those verses "did" apply to me as well as the whole world as stated in verses 19-20.
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
However, what applies to me and everyone that is saved today is verses 21-22.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God WHICH IS BY FAITH OF JESUS UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
FAITH OF JESUS!! That is what caused me to believe!
If it was my faith I wouldn't believe, and it would be considered a work.
You asked if you paraphrased me correctly.
See page 2.
If I may ask the same question to you that I asked of Mr. Spencer.
What is your understanding of God's FOREKNOWLEDGE and how that relates to Romans 3:10-18 relative to salvation?
If I may paraphrase, you seem to be saying that when God looked down the corridors of time He saw something uniquely inherent in you that He did not see in others who do not become saved. He saw that you, of your own free will, would accept the Salvation offered to you that others would reject. And that based on that foreknowledge, God chose to save you. But because He did not see that characteristic in others, that inclination, He chose not to save them.
Please correct me if I have stated your understanding incorrectly.
I would then ask; How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to you? Or does it not?
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Ezekiel 36:24-31
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
You gave Romans 3:9-18 (taken from Psalm 14:1-4) to show that both Jew and Gentile are under sin, that no one can escape this awful reality & bondage.
You also quoted Romans 9:14-16,22, presumably to support the belief that it is God Who shows mercy on those whom He elects to be His people. When we read Romans chapter 9, we see Paul agonizing over his kinsmen. They were indeed blessed, having received the Law, the adoption, the Covenants, & the Promises, yet still fell far short before their God. Through Isaac & his seed would the Promise be established and not through Ishmael (son of the flesh).
Again, God selects (or, elects) Jacob over Esau, that the "elder shall serve the younger", which seems totally incompatible to the law of inheritance & rights, and seemingly unrighteous of God to make such an appointment. Paul then goes on to give the example of Moses ( Exodus 33:13-19), where God says in v19, "and (I) will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
I share this to show that this passage has nothing to do with salvation from sin, but of election of Israel through Abraham, Isaac & Jacob (to the exclusion of all others). And with Moses, a special granting of Mercy to have a limited sight of God's Glory. So the LORD could say to him that He would be gracious and merciful to Moses to reveal His Glory, as He could do to some and not to others. Onto Page 2.
With all due respect Mr. Spencer and others,
God did not Predestinate certain individuals to be saved BECAUSE He KNEW they would come to Him. This is what God KNEW about any and all of mankind, including you and me:
Romans 3:9-18 9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
God KNEW that NO ONE, let me say that again, NO ONE would come to Him apart from His Sovereign Mercy in PREDESTINATING a Remnant chosen by His Election of Grace, throughout time and throughout the World, to be saved. Why? because apart from God's action in salvation, we are ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD and in Rebellion against God in Body and Soul.
Romans 9:14-16 14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Election=Hope! Praise God!
Salvation has nothing to do with "accepting Christ". Salvation is 100% the Work of God. Any Church today will give you a formula as to "how we can become saved":That is not the Gospel of the Bible.
We all by nature are Spiritually Dead. Just like the Physically Dead can do nothing to raise themselves to Physical Life, we can do nothing to raise ourself to Spiritual Life. God must do all the work of Saving us.
He must have chosen us to be saved before He created the World, Election.
He must have paid the price demanded by His Law for all of our sins, Eternal Death.
He must apply that Salvation to our life by giving us a New Resurrected Soul, Born Again.
We read in Romans 3:10-18 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
So what can we do?
We may cry to God for Mercy, like the Publican,"God be merciful to me a sinner".
We may plead with God for a "broken and contrite heart" which He will not despise ( Psalm 51:17).
We can place ourselves in an environment where God is saving;"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." ( Rom 10:17).
We can begin to turn away from our sins, repentance, and begin to be more obedient to God's Law, the Bible; recognizing that none of this will save us.
There is great Hope for Salvation in our Day. But we must "wait upon God", if it might be His will to save us.
Read Jonah 3 and 4, Salvation of the Ninevites. Read Ezekiel 36:24-32.
Many believers maintain that we need to obey the Decalogue, in spite of the condemnation that it brings when we fail to "keep the whole law" ( James 2:10). I sense that these folk are considering this subject at the superficial level, i.e. God has spoken, and "the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12), so it remains current & very much applicable for us today to follow. And this would, or should, include keeping the Sabbath, which strangely very few do. And let's not include circumcision.
Whereas, like the Tithes and the hundreds of commandments, ceremonial laws, & the sacrificial system given to Israel to follow and perform meticulously, none of it bears upon us in Christ in any way, to us who have been given new life, under a new abiding Covenant, and God's eternal and comprehensive Laws directed to each of our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Israel of old determined their actions according to the Law that they were given, which then affected their conscience and sacrifice was made each year. Our actions & responses are according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit, which go far far beyond anything that the Old Law could ever do: it only brought condemnation and then the need for sacrifices to stay God's Hand of Judgement. Animal sacrifices were temporary and weak at best; but the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God is eternal and completely forgives and justifies ( Acts 13:38,39; Romans 3:23-28). Just thought to give a little addendum to your original question. Blessings.
Then Ezekiel chap 37 shows that the nation of Israel will be gathered back into the land in a state of unbelief first of all and after that, God will give them spiritual life. These prophecies and many others are literal prophecies concerning Israel alone. The nation of Israel was dispersed amongst all the nations starting in AD 70. They were literally being re-gathered and once again became a nation again in AD 1948. Prophecies will continue to be fulfilled where Israel will continue as a nation & one day come under the New Covenant and the Kingdom that they were always promised.
Other prophecies such as Zechariah chapter 12 and 14 cannot mean anything other than Israel. And these passages, which have not been fulfilled yet, show that God is going to protect, cleanse, and install his Kingdom there.
c) RT goes against New Testament prophecy.
Prophecy such as Matt chap 24 and the Book of the Revelation show that the nation of Israel plays a key role in the end times. God has not finished with them but will fulfil his prophecies and be faithful to His Own Name & Word.
d) RT goes against the very Character of God.
Paul wrote it well in Romans 3:1-4: "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."
This is a very important point: if we believe that God will not fulfil His promises to the nation of Israel; or to say, that God has taken away His promises & Israel's position and given them to another people, this must cast great doubt over both the Character and Sovereignty of God. To Page 5.