Discuss Romans 6 Page 11

"for in the day thou eatest thereof thereof thou shall surely die" Genesis 2:16-17

"by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men" Romans 5:12

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?..." 1 Corinthians 6:9

"But your iniquities have separated between you and you God" Isaiah 59:2

"the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:4

"shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Revelation 21:8

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" Revelation 20:14-15

"For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16

"And all things are lf God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ...To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

"Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" John 1:17

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ" Ephesians 2:13

"and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Revelation 1:5

"the veil of the temple was rent in twain from top to bottom" Matthew 27:51

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" Ephesians 1:7

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:14-15

"But God commendeth his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8

"And of his fulness have all received, and grace for grace" John 1:16

Hi Kenneth,

I Believe God gives the Holyspirit spirit when we are truly converted which is an act of his doing upon our trust and believe in the work of Christ on the cross.

That same Spirit convicts us of sin,

As we feed on the word "with faith" that same Spirit moves us different than the way we were before. It's not simply a change of mind, "IT'S A CHANGED HEART".

This is called fruit in your life that wasn't there before.

John 15:8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye ""BEAR"" much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

NOTICE: YOU BEAR THE FRUIT YOU DON'T PRODUCE IT.

We do that by being connected to the true vine. JESUS.

John 15:1-4. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

These verses emphasize "Virtue" by being connected!! A New Heart, The now inner Man.

Here's what's produced by the Vine:

Galatians 5:22-24. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

( The last sentence here is perhaps the death of the old Heart. "Not Old Nature".

by us being in Christ at his death. The new Heart and Power supplied by The Holyspirit is given by us behind baptized into his resurrection!

ROMANS 6:1-5.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Our evidence is that our Hope is built on a rock and that rock is Jesus Christ. if you're saved you Have the Holyspirit.

God is so good. Thank you Lord Jesus!!!

Dear Sacha,

If you're a Christian and don't believe Jesus is Lord then that is mystifying. If you don't believe in the many scriptures in the Bible that say not only Jesus is the son of God, but is God, then that is mystifying. You are in the minority who believe that. Many think saying such things as what you just said is a heresy, but I wouldn't go so far- I think it's just misunderstanding in the same way the other person did. Much of it involves falsely assuming a format like this: "Jesus has one title, therefore he can't (with my own human interpretation) have other titles, because my personal reasons." You suggested that Jesus is not Lord, but that's a foundational belief in Christianity and is throughout the Bible. It's sad that someone has to also assume false motives of another Christian too. Did you pray to God the Father about this before posting such controversy?

Examples of Jesus is Lord: Link

Romans 10:9

Romans 6:23

Philippians 2:10-11

Luke 6:46

Isaiah 44:6

John 13:13

1 Thessalonians 4:16

2 Timothy 1:8

Acts 16:31

1 Corinthians 12:3-5

Did you reach each of the above?

Romans 10:9 for example says: ""That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."" - some translations word it as "...if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord..."

Deut 6:4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

This verse is similar to: 1 John 5:7-8, John 10:30, and John 1:1, John 1:14, and so many others that say Jesus is God. This doesn't mean Jesus is God the Father, but Jesus is God the Son.

When it says "we are one" that does not mean they are separate. It means they are one. So, when a man says they can't be one, or Jesus is separate somehow, because it says they are 'one' that idea self-contradicts itself. I believe the Bible as it is written.

The answer to when a Christian is judged and whether he will continue in sin is in Romans Ch.6,7and 8.

Here's fragments pulled out of those scriptures.

Romans 6:3-4. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 7:25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:11-14. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

"Positionally the old man have been already charged!

Christ paid the redemptive price on the cross. IT IS FINISHED!!

Romans 8:1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It's not a question of judgment It's a question of deception. "are you baptized in his death Positionally? do you have a 2nd nature that you see Paul is mentioning in Romans 7 that fights back against the old Man/old nature?

Christ the first fruit and if the first fruit is Holy the lump is also Holy. Wasn't the resurrection justification? " God's approval,

We have a earnest of the inheritance in the Holyspirit.

To be looking for further judgment suggests we have a works based relationship for salvation and Christ died in vain.

Water baptism part 2.

Acts 22: 16:

Paul defense, testimony on trial telling the people; that he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 6: 3, 4:

Paul says those that are saved have been baptized, buried in the name of Jesus.

Ephesians 5: 26:

Christ sanctify and cleanse His church with the washing of WATER by the word.

Colossians 2: 11, 12:

The circumcision of Christ takes place in water baptism.

Hebrews 9: 19, 20:

Our bodies are washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3: 20, 21:

In the days of Noah, 8 souls were saved by water. The like figure even BAPTISM ALSO NOW SAVES US.

In conclusion, water is used to separate you from sin, cut off the flesh to bring you into new covenant with Christ, the NEW BIRTH, BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND SPIRIT!

This was the continuation of water baptism part 1.

Acts 2:38:

Baptized in water for remission of sins to be saved. Jews first, then gentiles.

Note:

2: 41:

3000 souls were baptized to be obedient.

Acts 8: 36 - 39:

Philip baptized eunuch in water.

Acts 9:18:

Apostle Paul is baptized.

Acts 10: 47, 48:

Peter baptized Cornelius and his family.

Acts 18: 8:

Chief ruler of synagogue believed on the Lord(many with him) got baptized.

Acts 19: 1 - 6:

Paul baptized certain disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22: 16:

Paul defense/testamony on trial telling the people; that he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 6: 3, 4:

Paul says those that are saved have been baptized/buried in the name of Jesus.

Ephesians 5:26:

Christ sanctify and cleanse His church with the washing of WATER by the word.

Colossians 2: 11, 12:

The circumcision of Christ takes place in water baptism.

Hebrews 9: 19, 20:

When Moses read the law to all the people, he took blood, water, hyssop, and sprinkled them with it, signifying God have enjoined them.

Hebrews 10: 22:

Our bodies are washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3: 20, 21:

In the days of Noah, 8 souls were saved by water. The like figure even BAPTISM ALSO NOW SAVES US.

In conclusion, water is used to separate you from sin/cut off the flesh to bring you into new covenant with Christ, the NEW BIRTH, BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND SPIRIT!

Romans 6:14 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ezekiel 33:11-20

( Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 12:35-36 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 13:37-43

( John 5:26-29

( Romans 2:2-11

( Romans 6:1-2

( Romans 6:15-23

( James 2:14-20

( 1 Peter 4:16-19

( 2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Clarence,

What sweet questions!

To be saved is to be reconciled to God. In our present state, we are at enmity with God. God is perfect and God is just, we are sinners and fallen. But God devised a way for us to be brought back into a relationship with Him:

Romans 5:9-10: 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

You are saved by acknowledging your sin and its penalty:

All have sinned: Romans 3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

The Penalty for sin is death: Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Acknowledging that Jesus Christ died to pay for your sins.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Repenting for your sins: Luke 13:3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - That is a promise.

Just tell God that you are a sinner, in need of salvation...and that you believe Jesus Christ died for you and that you want to repent of your sins and that you want Him to save you.

I will be praying for you Clarence! Dear Lord, please grant Clarence the clarity needed to come to you. Thank you that he is searching Lord, and thank you for giving Him the courage to ask these questions. I pray that he will be saved Lord, and that he will be able to rejoice in that salvation. In Jesus' name...Amen.

"saved" is the gift: Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

We were saved from all sins, past sins, present sins, and future sin the second we believed Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles during the age of grace. Which is: 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Neither. I understand that the crucifixion & resurrection of Jesus was for the forgiveness of our past sins & removal of them that were held to our account. Hebrews 10:16,17: "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." And, Romans 4:25: "Who (Jesus) was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." Our sins placed on Jesus at the Cross have been taken away, no longer imputed to us & we remain justified (i.e. to be declared not guilty, absolved, acquitted) from any further recourse or punishment. When God looks at us, He sees us IN Christ & clothed in His Righteousness (& not our own which could only condemn us).

Salvation, I believe is a once only event that was accomplished at the Cross & received through full faith in that Work. It can't be undone or re-given: we're either saved or not, or else, we show that we despise this great Work & count it of little worth. What you wrote, "that Salvation is a process of maturing in the spirit of Christ", I see that as the ongoing filling Work of the Spirit, as we continue to empty ourselves of that which hinders His Work. And when we do, He reveals to us more of Jesus, endeavouring to make us more like Him in every way. ( Ephesians 3:19, 5:18).

We are saved from our past sins,,,, we are being saved from our present sins and if we endure our own cross and overcome we shall be saved....PRAISE GOD.

Did Jesus die and resurrect to save sinners with there sin or sinners from there sin.... i believe that Salvation is a process of maturing in the spirit of Christ. I believe that Salvation is not the gift but is the result of the Gift... I believe that its all about Jesus its all about his Character . we are to take up our own cross and follow in his footsteps , not to say that we alone can obtain unto the High calling of Christ, for it is of him to will and to do of his good pleasure... its Christ in us the Hope of Glory , that is able to reconcile us back into an Holy and Unblameable relationship with God the Father.

We are all born Dead.... until we receive that baptism of the Holy Ghost we have no life in us that is more than the allotted time that is given to man.

My Dear Bro..... let me ask you ,,, How do you believe he did it.... we know that He never relied on any thing or anyone but his Father . Everything he did he did in accordance with and by his fathers will... He even had to submit to his Natural Parents to fulfill all righteousness . He had to be baptized By John to fulfill all righteousness. this was part of the pattern .

Baptism by Water, Baptism of the spirit and Baptism of fire... What was it he had to suffer ,

Gen 9:25 puts the curse on Canaan, Ham's Son. Thus Canaan descendants the "Canaanites" which settled in Canaan were the ones cursed by Noah. In fact when the Israelites moved into the promise land they were to remove the Canaanites due to their sexual depravity. This idea of Ham being "cursed" was one of the main reasons slavery was accepted by most Christian religions for centuries and another example of how some have used the Bible to oppressed various races down to this day.

Gen 9:24 does say Noah cursed his youngest son which would be Ham however lets reason on that statement. Is it unusual for a grandparent to consider his grandson as his son? An extension of his loins?

Gen 48:5,6 Records Jacob adopting Joseph's two sons Epharim and Manasseh saying they will become mine, but children after them will be yours...

Even Adam was called a son of God since it was through him that he came into existence. Luke 3:38

Even today a father or mother can claim their son-in-law as their son or their daughter-in-law as their daughter.

I think the most pertinent portion of Scripture on this matter, is found in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20. Others are: Colossians 1:20-22; Romans 5:10.

I see that you understand its meaning, by what you've written. And that is, through the offering up & sacrifice of His Son, God no longer charges us with our past sins, but has accepted us in through the merits of Christ alone. And the enmity that existed between us, is now gone, having been taken away, thereby bringing our hearts & spirits into a real & vital relationship with the Father. So we can joyfully say, that we have been reconciled to God through His Son, having those sins that condemned us, taken away so that God may now accept us by the peace that the Cross brings to both God & man. So one of the fruits of the Gospel, would be the reconciling of the sinner to a Holy God.

If you're referring to the account in Genesis 9:20-25, then, No, the sin of Ham wasn't sexual; he was passing by where his Father Noah was asleep because of imbibing too much, & he "saw" (i.e. he continued to gaze instead of walking away quickly) his Father's nakedness. In one sense, Ham, & his descendants, would not have been cursed, had Ham not reported this thing to his brothers. He must have described in detail what he saw to them, & Noah learned of this act, & so the curse upon Ham.

Just to add some further thoughts to Skip's very good answer to you: as shared from Romans 6:23, the committing of sin, even the smallest sin, will only reap the punishment of death (both physical & spiritual death). As people, we like to grade our sins & misdemeanours, believing that a white lie or evil thought is certainly not as severe as actually offending or hurting someone else. But God sees our behaviour differently, simply because He is Holy, without sin, never knowing sin. So He expected that His perfect creation would behave likewise, as He is. But you know the story: that didn't happen, so the sin nature was passed down the line, & we all do wrong & sin against God.

God had every right to turn His Face from his creation, to either allow us to wallow in wickedness & ultimately be consigned to Hell, or maybe, instantly destroy all mankind, so you & I wouldn't even be here today. But God had a third option: an option not from unrestrained anger seeking our destruction, but of great unfathomable Love from within Him & undeserved Mercy for a wretched people, that would seek our welfare & give us a new life & hope.

Since the only way to pay for our sin is by death (as a heinous sinful nature could only bring the death penalty), we would still have ended up in Hell. But what if someone came before the Great Judge & offered to take on our punishment & make full payment for our sin, so that we wouldn't have Hell as our destination but would be forgiven, anticipating Heaven. Who could fit the bill as the one offering Himself had to be perfect, as God is Perfect? No man could - only God Himself could. For that reason, He sent His Son, His Own precious Word made like us in the flesh, so that a full payment could be made, through His dying on the Cross in our place. But death couldn't hold Him. He arose from the grave so God could now 'justify' us (i.e. He could look at us forgiven sinners 'just as if' we had never sinned). WHY? His LOVE compelled Him to do this.

What was ham sin sexual ?

Naturally, as God in the flesh, He did the will of His Father. Not to do so would be incongruous; that is, it would be God contradicting Himself. One cannot separate the Person from the total nature of The Godhead.

The Father is fully God, but is not The Son or The Spirit.

The Son is fully God, but is not The Father or The Spirit.

The Spirit is fully God, but is not The Father or The Son.

So your question to clarify still stands:

"i would like to know is how he did it."

What do you mean by that?

All things have an order ,,, or a pattern especially in the word of God.. Even Jesus had to follow a pattern .. for he never did anything outside of the will of his father ... he always did those things that pleased his father never usurping his Authority..He would not have been able do those things he did if he had chosen to do his own will . Even in the Garden when it came time to fulfill the will of his father , he said NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE. He is the Cheif cornerstone of the temple , whitch temple we are , for his spirit abides in us .

All through the scripture i see the process of God reconciling man back into a wright relationship with him...

there are many scriptures that describe being reconciled ,, i would leave it up you to choose them in the context of what it means .

The first four books of he new test,,,,, three tell us of Christ and what was accomplished the fourth the book of John tells us more about how it was accomplished ,, i could be wrong but that s what i see..

I've never heard of the Gospel of Reconciliation. Do you have a Scripture for this?

Your mentioning of that lovely hymn, urged me to listen to it again on YT. I remember listening to it (on a record player) as a youngster, that hymn sung by George Beverly Shea (now with the Lord). He was a powerful singer & a mighty servant of God, touching many hearts through his music & testimony, often sharing the platform with Billy Graham.

Praise God for the Truths you & Steve have shared from God's Word.

Steve,

I'm not sure that "We all know what Jesus accomplished." I think that lots of people have written lots of books on just that topic over the past 2,000 years. But to mention just a few that come to mind from Colossians:

"we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins"

"by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"

"having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself"

"you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"

"And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it"

Just to site a few.

But what do you mean by, "how He did it?"

Can you be more specific what you're looking for?