Romans
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Frankie,
You ask, " Rom 6:1,2,6, it speaks expressively the intent of God's heart. Holy Spirit seals it by repeats in twice."
I am not sure I am understanding your question here, but in order to understand this section of Romans Chapter 6, there are some terminologies that we need to know which are Justification, Reconciliation, and Sanctification. All three of these terminologies happen when a person receives Christ, when they are born-again. They're not in different stages.
You say that "if one sins in the least, the devil is still a prince & has dominion over him," and you give Romans 6:12-15 as the source of your statement.
Paul starts out by saying, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body." How can he say that? It is because he is leading us into the fact that when we get to Romans 6:14, it says that sin shall not lord it over you. That is a factual statement, not should not, but it cannot! What this is saying is that the sin principle no longer lords over the person who has the indwelling of God's Spirit.
So, if a believer does commit a single act of sin, it is because they made the choice. When they were not saved (born-again), they didn't have a choice. But once they got saved, it's the power of God's Spirit in them that gives them the power over sin. This does not mean that a believer will never sin.
This is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart.
Colossians 2:12
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead
2 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Galatians 6:15
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Colossians 3:1
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Ephesians 4:24
and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Life begins here as a babe in Christ,
God bless you for this all important portion of scripture.
If this is not gotten right nothing else matters.
When someone sins, they say without saying to GOD that they don't have faith in Him. When God says He will lead a way of escape, not giving you too much you can't handle. And we can do all things through Christ, we just got to do our part and RESIST the temptations of the devil and he will flee.
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
But like the Prodigal son or the lost sheep. If you do sin, repent and go forth and sin no more. Grace and Salvation will always be there for those who want it. So ya, you can lose your salvation, which is to be saved from sin. When one is in sin, they like I said above ask God in prayer for forgiveness...
We just got to keep away from the sin business as a Pastor once said. If you stumble, get up, keep on striving.
I encourage you to look up a fella who since passed away. His name Finis Dake, we got to get rid of that idea that the Bible is hard to understand. Basic Bible teaching, made me realize English is a peculiar language. God Bless and Keep on striving, being Christlike in anything you do.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You did not address this directly with me, but I felt it. This is not to debate it with you. I know in my heart nothing I have posted comes from Satan. There is a difference between, we sin, and we serve sin, dead in or dead to.
Ephesians 2:1:4 When we are born, we are born dead in trespasses and sins, and we remain in that spiritually dead state until we believe in faith Jesus as our savior and are baptized for the remission of our sins, at that moment we who were dead in sin are made spiritually alive in Jesus, Ephesians 2:5.
We confess to now be dead to sin and the old way of living and walk in the newness of life found in following Jesus, Romans 6:1-4. We are dead to sin and alive to God and we have a new walk, Romans 6:2,11. Dead to sin means we are no longer a slave to sin, we are no longer serving sin, Romans 6:6. We no longer allow sin to reign in our body.
This doesn't mean that a Christian will ever reach a state of sinless perfection while on this earth. As long as we are in this mortal body, sins will on occasion be committed. However, the point we became dead to sin through Jesus we will never participate in a lifestyle of persistent, continual, habitual sin. We will never let sin reign over us again, we are no longer sin slaves.
Slip-ups and stumbles are likely, part of us having the Adamic nature, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins if we confess them. If we go back to our evil ways slaves to sin letting sin reign over us instead of our Savior Jesus, no more forgiveness, we are again dead in sin, living in sin.
This is what my understanding is, given to me through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we say or teach we can get to a point while in this mortal body, we will never sin again, is that not the same as you shall not surely die??? Only One has or ever will live in this flesh and did not sin. Repentance is not a one-time thing, it is how we live, our walk in the Spirit.
God bless,
RLW
The overriding scriptural message is asking us to Repent. I question whether many Christians today really understand what repent means.
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Meaning of the word Repent.
Verb:
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2: to feel regret or contrition
b: to change one's mind
transitive verb
1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for
I continue to hear Christians on this site, and elsewhere telling themselves and everyone else that they will always sin. They have accepted that as long as they live, they will always be sinners. This thinking/mindset comes directly from satan, who else would encourage you to think this way, which is totally against scripture.
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
Living in sin - does not meet the expectation of God for us to REPENT!
Living in sin yourself is one thing, telling others that they can never stop sinning is another. Thinking like this and speaking like this is not very encouraging to yourself, or others. Something to think about.
Happy Sabbath Day
The first thing I came up with was anger which is not normally something people begin with in studying God; but perhaps a topic that needs discussion. God is clearly angry with the wicked every day ( Psalm 7:11). That verse also says that He judges the righteous.
In discussing God's reaction toward a saved individual as "chastisement" and the wicked as anger; we see a different outcome ultimately with believers not being damned every time they sin to hell. Nonetheless even with chastisement we can't say that God isn't angry. A father can be angry with a child with righteous indignation; and God as our Father certainly is upset when we grieve the Spirit ( Ephesians 4:30). Sin is sin; we clearly can't use grace as an excuse to sin more ( Romans 6:1-2). The REASON for His anger is different to some respect IF we are His children. We are as believers TRULY dead to our old nature; and if Satan attempts to renew our sinful behaviors it is foreign to our new nature; thus the Spirit contends against the flesh. ( Gal. 5:17). It is contrary to who we are in Christ DEAD TO SIN ( Galatians 2:20) if we sin as believers. If we really deceive ourselves then the truth is not in us ( 1 John 1:8). Thus without the Lord we are still dead in sins and trespasses ( Eph. 2:1); and if we do believe there is still potential for the old man to rise up but no NEED for it to happen if we continue to walk in the Spirit we will not satisfy the desires of the flesh ( Gal. 5:16). Clearly Galatians 5 in particular is a good read for that subject.
There are some things which God particularly hates ( Proverbs 6:16-19) and one he loathes (same idea). God also hates divorce ( Malachi 2:16). Anger and hatred are justified for God
Romans 6:1-13
"1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
...
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are
alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
"15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"
What does Paul mean by saying "LIKEWISE RECKON"?
Obviously Paul we are warned we shouldn't continue in sin after being saved by grace as Paul mentioned in Romans 5:15-21. through Romans 6:1-2.
Paul goes on in verses 3-4. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
Paul goes on in verses 6-7- "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not SERVE sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Verses 9-11.
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
LIKEWISE RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Paul is talking to Believers!
Paul is urging believers to "RECOGNIZE" you wasn't just Identified with Christ death in baptism,
You should also be Identified in his ressurection and have newness of Life.
God didn't just offer Christ as a free gift for those who believe unto Salvation. SALVATION IS A NEW LIFE.
( PAUL IS SAYING RECOGNIZE THAT SIN SHOULDN'T DOMINATE IN A BELIEVERS LIFE. )
Does this makes you perfect?
No, not CONDITIONALLY.
Shall we resist sin? Yes
We are perfect POSITIONALLY
Colossians 3:1-4.
We have been given an earnest of the Spirit, will be perfect CONDITIONALLY and glorified when we cast off this tabernacle/ Body of sin.
God bless.
I'm not aware of any scripture saying you're dead. I assume you believe this is a metaphor and not literal.
If in Christ it says you're alive in Christ. Not dead. Scripture does say dead to sin, but that's different I haven't seen any scripture saying you're flat out dead, have you?
Thanks for your response regarding our struggle with sin. You asked the following: Are you intimating that only those who are living in a continuously sinless life are living godly lives? I will answer by stating: Here is scripture intimating that only those who are living sinless lives are living Godly lives.
1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."
How do you reconcile the above scripture?
You asked where I'm at in my current walk with the Lord. I'm struggling as you, and apostle Paul, but I finally feel that now I am making progress toward my goal of being sanctified and sin free in this life. The Spirit has convicted me that I should stop using that old worn out excuse that "we can't stop sinning" as being acceptable anymore. I have no choice now but to accept this, and pick up my cross, and reject this world and the lust filled things of this world. I'm praying a lot more, (If we are praying we can't be sinning) focusing on God's/Jesus words throughout my day, and the Spirit is filling me with positive thoughts and healing my mind and body. I'm so blessed Gigi, I really want to help others make progress in achieving the love/sanctification in this life that Christ promises to us if we have Faith as big as a mustard seed!
GBU
Always nice to hear from you, and thanks for your input regarding sin.
For some time now on this forum I have been questioning sin and the current Christian attitude toward sin. In particular the acceptance that each of us will always be sinners during our lives and never receiving the sanctification promised. I truly believe that acceptance of this "can't ever stop sinning mindset" doesn't help us to grow closer to God. I believe saying we can't stop sinning is just putting a mental stumbling block before ourselves and others. If we use the word CAN'T in any other challenge that we might want to accomplish in life, this will assure us that we wont succeed, so why should we be saying CAN'T when it comes to sin, which is the most important challenge/endeavour for any Christian!
As a Christian living in sin and stating that we cant stop sinning how do we reconcile many bible verses including some of these.
1 John 3:6, 1 John 3:8, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:24, Romans 6:6
I understand that Paul and the other apostles struggled with sin, but we really don't know if they eventually became sin free. They may have, and I tend to believe that they all did, and we know they gave up everything for Christ including their lives. My point is, and you may or may not agree, I believe we don't help ourselves or others by continually saying we Can't overcome sin. This is a defeatist mindset, and lulls us into a conscience acceptance of a certain level of sin in our lives.
My goal in life is to work toward being sin free. In conjunction with the Holy Spirit I have made progress toward this goal. I have finally learned to really fear God, and listen to Him, and Christ. I also used to believe in my heart that as a human I would always be a sinner, I don't believe that anymore, thanks to the hard lessons and conviction by the Holy Spirit.
GBU
Romans 6:14-16 In this passage, the main point is to emphasize the idea of being freed from the power of sin through faith in Jesus Christ. The key takeaway emphasizes freedom from sin through grace and the importance of choosing obedience to God rather than sin.
The main points in these verses are:
1. **Freedom from Sin:** Paul is emphasizing that believers are no longer under the dominion or control of sin because of their faith in Jesus Christ. This freedom from sin's mastery is a result of being under God's grace.
2. **Not an Excuse for Sin:** Paul addresses a potential misunderstanding or misinterpretation of this freedom. He makes it clear that being under grace does not mean that Christians have a license to sin or live in a sinful way. Instead, they are called to a life of obedience to God.
3. **Choice of Obedience:** Paul presents a choice to the believers. They can either offer themselves as obedient slaves to sin, which leads to spiritual death, or they can choose obedience to God, which leads to righteousness and life.
The main point of Romans 6:14-16 is that through faith in Jesus Christ, believers are freed from the dominion of sin. However, this freedom should [[[[ NOT BE ]]]] misinterpreted as a license to sin; rather, it should lead to a life of obedience and righteousness in service to God.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
One can have all the enteral security they want, if they stayed secured. But not when they sin.
1 Corinthians 2:14 says: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Deuteronomy 32:28-29 states "For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them. O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!"
There are many reasons people may go to church and not be believers; a general statement would be there are many confessors but less who are POSSESSORS of the Holy Spirit. Focusing on earlier posts discussing how Satan focuses his attacks on the church we need in general to see how Satan is not only opposed to God but comes as s substitute; and mimics every spiritual gift in outward manifestations that may appear to be the same to the undiscerning (such as listed in 1 Corinthians 2:14 above).
As to spiritual manifestations; the "Kundalini" experience often mimics what are true spiritual experiences. We see mention in past revivals of people shaking or trembling at His Word which is scriptural ( Isaiah 66:2). But certain ritualaistic manifestations
cause abandon (usually coiling up like a snake on the floor). Godly sorrow certainly can cause weeping as was reported in many revivals from the past; uncontrollable laughter however is not something that seems edifying. Tongues of angels certainly can be imitated by demons as evidenced by experiences of those in the occult.
In looking at these "charismatic" gifts; we shoiuldn't ignore the "religious" spirit which involves endless ritual and legalistic practices that exceed the scope of the Word. The Pharisees added things with their traditions ( Mark 7:13 and other verses) and this was associated with pride; self righteous and leading others astray. (see Matthew 23:15). The opposite of this is using grace as a license to sin which Romans 6:1 warns about.
We cannot say Satan made me do it, we are responsible if we sin.
What is death? Is it just the body that dies and our conscious soul, lives on somewhere outside the body? This started when the serpent said to Eve, Ye shall not surely die, you will be as gods. Most pagan religions have an afterlife where the soul lives forever. In the Bible, the OT is the word Sheol meaning the grave and death was sleep with no knowledge or consciousness, nowhere is the immortal soul in the Bible.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were taken out of the garden and forbidden eternal life/immortality from the Tree of Life, Gen. 3:24. When the OT was translated into Greek Sheol became Hades with the Greek meaning that came with it, and in English, it's Hell with the same Greek meaning, the soul separates from the body and the conscious souls goes to a place of the dead. Many believe there is either eternal life with Jesus or eternal damnation in Hell/lake of fire where they will be tormented for eternity.
If we say our soul is immortal, we are saying we are gods because we cannot die. But the Bible says without the gift of eternal life given to us in the resurrection we will die the second death, we will perish, be destroyed forever to be no more. Romans 6:23 Psalms 37:10-13 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:25, 29 John 3:16 2 Peter 2:10-12, they are mortal and will perish.
The unrighteous will be destroyed/perish, they will have their part in the lake of fire, Rev. 21:8. Their death is forever, not forever in torment. When we die our destiny is fixed, there is not a second chance after death. This adoption of the Greek philosophy of the immortal soul and Hades fogs our understanding, it plugs our ears that are to hear.
I could say more but I will leave it here, I hope you will study for the truth. We should empty our minds in prayer where we are open to the truth given by the Spirit of Truth, not led by the traditions of men, Colossians 2:8.
RLW
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
One can have all the enteral security they want, if they stayed secured. But not when they sin.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
One can have all the enteral security they want, if they stayed secured. But not when they sin.
It is my belief that God (the True Author of Scripture) is speaking of our testimony. You see, all sin leads unto death; "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 KJV. So how can there be a sin that leads NOT unto death? The only thing that makes sense is God is speaking of our testimony; you see, Christ's most scathing rebuke is "hypocrite". Keeping this in mind, hypocrisy "kills" our testimony! I can admit I'm a sinner and still Proclaim Christ's Healing in my life! For instance: If I proclaim that God healed me of drug addiction, yet I'm found to still be doing drugs I'm a hypocrite and "kill" my testimony. Yet, if I admit that I'm a sinner AND still suffer a multitude of sinful desires, but I proclaim that God healed my drug addiction fully to the point of destroying ALL desire for drug use, then, if I'm caught in sexual immorality I'm a sinner, yet if I never do another drug again then my sin of sexual immorality takes NOTHING away from my proclamation of God Healing me of drug addiction. Thus, there is a sin unto death and a sin NOT unto death; it's death of our Testimony! Above ALL knowledge of scripture, above ALL theological teachings, and above ALL religions is the testimony of The Lord Jesus Christ's Healing power in our lives. Testimony is actual PROOF that God is real!
Israel of old in a way represents the natural man at his best.
They were a nation separated from a pagan Idolizing world and instructed by God with God in their midst.
They displays the nature of man who's joined to a living soul. (Adam).
(This is an example where religion does not save.)
Sin is not only what you do that condemns you. It's also who you are that condemns you. "A sinner!
Education about right on wrong can't save you, it can only convict you,
However, this lesson and conviction is necessary for the preparation of the Gospel. That's was their purpose.
There is only one that can save you and that's the last Adam. he is a quickening spirit. (Life giving Spirit.) Christ.
There has to be a transition from the first Adam to the last Adam and that is seen in baptism of the Holyspirit. Romans 6:3-4.
Look at the order of events here in Romans 6:22-23.
1st) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
2nd) ye have your fruit unto holiness,
3rd) and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( The Gift is eternal life by that life giving Spirit. Jesus)
Romans 8:11. speaks on the quickening spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickening our mortal bodies to bare fruit unto life.
Romans 8:12-16 sums this all up.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" This is the gift of eternal life shown in sanctification.
This is also what James is saying in James 2:17-18.
God bless.
So therefore to be free from the law we can choose to follow the Spirit or God forbid use it as a license to sin. ( Romans 6:1). That is what determines if we are truly free as a slave to Christ; or living what seems right to us but leads to death ( Prov. 14:12). Freedom is in following Christ and part of the New Covenant; but doesn't remove the universal laws affecting things such as murder and divorce and adultery (such as seen in Mark 6:18). This shows how even pagans are under covenant vow obligations. There are ceremonial laws and special O.T. laws specifically for Israel (which would cover the Sabbath Day requirement). That differentiation can help us understand things better; Jesus goes one step beyond with murder and adultery with the state of the heart. We also need to look at sins of omission as well as commission and how things affect others with a sort of ripple effect. Outer actions reflect the fruit of our inner most being; and whether we have a new heart or heart of stone
( Ezekiel 36:26).
Christ needs to Lord of all or He is not our Master; we must fall on the rock or be crushed ( Matt. 21:44).
Agape.
Sorry for such a late response.
Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.
Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.
Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
Jesus said he knows his sheep.
He also said I will never leave or forsake us.
John 10:27.
Hebrews 13:5.
I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.
Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Goodnight and God bless.
The important thing to note about dying in Christ is the Resurrection.
We have eternal life NOW!
And we walk in that newness of life, empowered by the Holyspirit.
Romans 6:3-8.
Paul says in Phillipines 3:10-11. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
This is for believers ONLY.
God bless
I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.
Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8 Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15 Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.
On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.
The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.
Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.
God bless,
RLW
Praise GOD
What does the Word of GOD say for this current time, the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium? The Word is GOD, self-executable, understand?
Romans 6:2-3
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall Judge the WORLD? and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you(we), are ye(we) unworthy to Judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall Judge angels (ANGELS of the Churches: Revelation 2:2; and 2:9; and 2:14-17; and 2:20; and 3:1-3; and 3:7-8; and 3:14-18)? How much more things that pertain to this life?
Daniel 7:22
22 ... and Judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom.
Revelation 11:15-18
15 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were (WILL BE) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Get ready
1 Peter 4:17 - 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
John 2:28 - And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16 John 12:49 John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30 John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
God bless,
RLW
Romans 3:10,11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
These verses apply to ALL MANKIND. whether they lived in Old Testament or New Testament times. And for God to forgive any sin of any kind at any time is for that sin to have been paid for. And all of the sacrifices of the Old Testament could never pay the penalty demanded by the Law of God for any sin of any kind at any time.
Forgiveness of sin has everything to do with Salvation itself. Any Old Testament Believer was "saved" just like any New Testament Believer. That is, Christ must have "paid for their sins" and that Salvation must have been applied to them by making them Born Again. And that is ALL the work of God Alone, Grace Alone.
John 3:3,4 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? John 3:9,10 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Nicodemus was an "Old Testament" Jew under the Ceremonial Laws.
So again, Salvation, the forgiveness of sin, any sin of any kind in any time can only be forgiven if we have become Born Again by God's Grace Alone.
The keeping of the Ceremonial Laws, the keeping of any Law of God could never "save" anyone or forgive any sin at any time in history. Abel's sacrifice did not forgive his sins, did not save him. Abel's sacrifice was acceptable to God because God had "saved" him. Cain's offering was not because Gid had not saved him.
Hello Kstott. When the Bible speaks of blood, whether of animals or man, it denotes the miracle of life given us by God; "for the life of the flesh is in the blood" ( Leviticus 17:11). As all mankind are born with sinful flesh, with a propensity to sin & violate the holy requirements of God ( Romans 3:23), God being both loving & just, is compelled to either condemn us or forgive us. To condemn would be simple, as we fully deserve the penalty of our sins ( Romans 6:23), but God reached out to us in our miserable hopeless state & provided a way of hope, healing & restoration.
To His people Israel of old, God instituted the sacrificial system where the high priest would offer the blood of animals to atone for their sins & reconcile them to God ( Leviticus 8:15; Exodus 30:10). It was a case of the people either dying in their sins or that a substitute was provided on their behalf so their lives were spared. At this time, animals were sacrificed & their blood shed (i.e. their life given), & this was accepted by God to forgive them. But this was done yearly, because the blood offering of animals could never be permanent as this was man's offering to God, to stay God's Hand from them. But God had planned a future day, when He Himself would offer His Sacrifice to fully atone & redeem His people - & this Sacrifice would be made available to both Jew & Gentile. And this Sacrifice was God Himself, in sending His Word to become man ( John 1:1-14) & giving His Life as the only Pure & Perfect Sacrifice that would be fully acceptable to Him.
In Romans Chapter 4, it's the principles of justification. And in Romans 5, we have the privileges of justification. When you read Chapter 4 and study about faith, it's like it hits you right between the eyes!
Impartation - The Doctrine of Sanctification ( Romans 6:1-8:39)
Then the impartation, that which is given, the doctrine of sanctification. That will be Romans 6:1 to the end of Chapter 8 and it will cover the power over sin, the problem of the flesh, and the provision of God's Spirit. Sanctification means to be set apart. When God gives us His Spirit, we are set apart and protected as His possession.
Romans 6 - The Power Over Sin
Romans 7 - The Problem of the Flesh
Romans 8 - The Provision of the Spirit
Then there's the inspiration, the doctrine of election in Romans 9 through 11. Chapter 9 talks about the Jews, the past history of Israel. Chapter 10 gives us the present condition of Israel. Chapter 11 is the promise of the future of Israel.
Inspiration - The Doctrine of Election ( Romans 9:1-11-11:36)
Romans 9 - The Past History of Israel
Romans 10 - The Present Condition of Israel
Romans 11 - The Promise of the Future of Israel
And then we get to the second part of the book of Romans which is Chapters 12 through 16 which gives us the description of the Christian life. This is all doctrine! I have heard people present it and say that Chapters 1 through 11 is all doctrine, and then Chapters 12 to 16 is practical application. It too is doctrine. But it is not about the Christian faith but about the Christian life, life after you are saved.
Part 1.
Salvation Is Step One
Salvation, which is when you come to know Jesus Christ, is only the beginning of our journey with Christ. God in Christ bled and died for our sins. It was through that act that He birthed repentance into His kingdom. Now, there's a new life that goes into eternity.
However, there is so, so, so much more to our faith.
The Apostle Paul wanted God's people to understand this, so he wrote about it many times in the New Testament. One of those times is found in Romans.
"I am speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification." Romans 6:19
Sanctification is a very theological-sounding word, so what does it mean?
Sanctification: being made or becoming holy. To sanctify is to literally be set apart for particular use in a special purpose or work.
John Wesley said, "The people are not happy because the people are not holy." In other words, to be holy is to be fully set apart for the purpose of God, which is the purpose of living into your design as a creation of God.
Wesley believed the doctrine of entire sanctification was Methodism's distinctive gift to Christianity. He called it "the great promise of God" [IV. 138], Christian perfection, the holiness of heart and life. Christ's death on the cross made it possible not only for sinners to be saved by grace but for us to be saved to the uttermost.
Wesley believed that sanctification was our restoration of the image of God within us, through Jesus Christ, by being made perfect in love toward God and our neighbor.
Here's a common sense statement: We walk faster when we see plain, definitive steps before us. With God's help and through the revelation of His Word, God will empower us to take these steps in our sanctification.
See Part 2.