Discuss Romans 6 Page 5

In John 3:3-5, why did Jesus say that we must be born of water and the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of heaven of God? It's his red letter words.

People must learn that in the epistles, they are not written to sinners. Not written to the world. Romans- Jude are written to the saints. Written to the people that came from the book of Acts that were water baptized & received the Holy Ghost.

Now in Acts 19:2 , Paul asked certain disciples if they received the Holy Ghost since they first believed?. They said they had never heard of the Holy Ghost. Then they asked what then were they baptized under? They said John (the Baptist). So

then they baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. So you see, they obeyed Acts 2:38.

It is about the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus Christ.



Acts 2:41, Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine & fellowship, & in breaking of bread, & in prayers.

Why are people dismissing the book of Acts?

And why are people dismissing Romans 6:3 -6

V 3 Know ye not, that so many of us

as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

V4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

V5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

V6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Jesus was water baptized to fulfill all rightousness.

We must know God & obey the gospel to be saved.

We are going to be judged on how we have kept Gods word.

The Lord speaks.Listen.

1peter 3: 20-21

8 souls were saved by water.

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:3-8, Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in the newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.

Also

Mark 16:16-17

Colossians 2:11-12

Also in the old testament the parting of the red sea was a type of baptism.

Peter said be baptized for the remission of sins.

In the book of Acts all were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ /unto the Lord.

This post is to no one in particular. In the book of Acts, Cornelius was not a Jew & he was water baptized. Water baptism is all thru the New Testament. Romans 6:1-8. Colossians 2. Mark 16:16-17. Luke 24:47 also says it's for the remission of sins. Matthew 26:28 Acts 2:38 is the New Testament salvation message. Water baptism saves you as in for the "remission of sins". Your previous sins are washed, forgiven. And now we must walk the straight path, sin no more. Love the Lord w all our heart & love our neighbor as thyself. We must continue on to receive the Holy Ghost. We must receive the Holy Ghost or we are none of his. I am of the Apostles doctrine, the book of Acts. And in Acts 2:39 says, The promise is unto you & to your children and to all those that are afar off even as many as the Lord our God shall call. It was first to the jews but then to the gentiles. There's so much scripture for water baptism. First in Acts 2:38 w Peter saying to "Repent & be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, therefore he was not in error.

Instead of arguing this & that, why not go to the Lord in prayer & seek this truth. The Lord will always show us the way. Ask for revelation. Hallelujah amen I love the Lord & all his ways.

I am pretty sure what you are talking about is what Paul spoke of when He refered to us as being dead too sin. Found in faith yet our bodies are dead to sin. Romans 6:11

11" Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord".

More than half way through my journey, I have looked back as a child until now, and have seen the presence of the holy spirit . I would say this is the wind Jesus speaks of, when He is talking to Nicodemus. The wind of the holy spirit that even guided the Indians, who may have never been Baptized ,but knew of a Spirit!

Soon they would learn where this Spirit came from, and where it would lead!

The chief, the master, would soon know these things! Hearing the words from Christ himself, revealed through John 3;16.

Jesus being from all eternity, with the Father in the garden, promising to send Him ,this same spirit we now speak of!

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Repent and be Baptized

Hi Douglas. I don't believe that a baby is born into sin. I do believe that a baby is born with a sin nature, a nature that each one of us inherits from our parents and that going all the way back to Adam & Eve. King David said it well in Psalm 51:5: "I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." He saw that even as far back as being in the womb, that this developing embryo not only had the beginnings of bodily organs in preparation for life outside the womb, but was also the recipient of the unseen essence that its parents would naturally transfer to him: that of a fallen sin nature.

The sin nature is within the embryo & within the newborn baby. But that sin nature hasn't yet been tested by the forces that will come upon the child. The child remains pure, yet disadvantaged by inheriting this nature that will give it a propensity to sin one day. Once a child does wrong & then is at an age of understanding the wrongdoing (whether learned from parents or that inner sense of conviction), the child can be said to be a sinner. Even though a new-born baby gives all the cues of fresh new life growing into adulthood, the fact remains that the sin nature within unfortunately gives the guarantee that the process of dying has already commenced. A very sad thing to state for sure, but that is the consequence of having the sin nature & then of committing sin ( Romans 5:12). We are not responsible for receiving the sin nature - we are responsible for the sin we commit as a result of it.

The product of our sinful nature & of sin will result in death, but thanks be to God for the Gift of His Son Jesus Christ & the promise of forgiveness & eternal life through Him ( Romans 6:23) - that our spirits can be renewed & received by Him, because of trusting in Jesus, our Salvation.

Romans 6:3-7 (Part 2)

I can get water baptized until I am water logged and it isn't going to do anything for me spiritually. It's just water on the outside of the body. Water baptism cannot produce the ministry Spirit of God. And if I look through this chapter, it's talking about being delivered from sin, dying to sin, and being born into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. You don't do that through water. It's through the Spirit of God!



Spirit baptism, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is the name of the ministry of Jesus Christ. I know the term has been misused today so a lot of people try and stay away from the term "Baptism of the Spirit." But in Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance."

John's baptism is different than Christian baptism. His was for the Jews that they would repent at the coming of Messiah. He says I baptize you water unto repentance, (not remission of sin), but He that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear, He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire. This is Jesus' ministry, to baptize us with His Spirit. The fire represents judgment. But we become a member of the body of Christ the moment we are saved and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In Galatians 3:27, it says "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ." So the baptism is parallel to and synonymous with putting on Christ, salvation, and receiving Christ. I have to understand this from Paul's perspective. Paul is the one that taught about Spiritual baptism being salvation, and the time that you come into the body of Christ. It is the Lord's ministry, and it is sad that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is misunderstood today and mistaught which takes away from the very function for which it is supposed to serve.

To be fair, I am going to look some more at Colossians 2:12. I may still be on the fence with that one. I hope you have a great day!

Romans 6:3-7 (Part 1)

Giannis,

To get a better understanding of Romans 6:3-7, I think it's good to view all the verses together beginning from Verse 1 through Verse 14, where Paul gives us the principles of sanctification. In fact, Chapters 6 through 8 is the doctrine of sanctification. If I study this doctrine, the question would be when does sanctification take place? I believe it happens the moment we receive Christ, the moment He places His Spirit in us. That is when we are sanctified. It does not happen at water baptism.

But anyway, here is what I understand on Romans 6:3. It says, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Many people use this verse as a teaching tool about water baptism. This verse, and in fact the whole chapter is not talking about water baptism. It is talking about the salvation process which is Spiritual baptism. I don't think it's wrong to use this text when somebody is being water baptized. However, water baptism is the outward expression that represents the inward work of God's Spirit at salvation.

There are two kinds of baptism's that are taught in the scriptures, water and Spirit baptism. Some people call it water and dry baptism. But again, the definition for water baptism is the outward expression of the inner work of God's Spirit at salvation. I think we agree on that one?

But this text here Romans 6:3-6 is not talking about water baptism but clearly Spirit baptism. There are several reasons why, but the most important reason is that when I look at water baptism, water baptism does not produce the work of God's Spirit.

Hello again brother,

Here is why I believe Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are referring to spirit baptism. First of all we are told earlier on in Colossians Chapter 2 that we are circumcised by Christ by the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh.

But now it tells us that we are also buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation, (or energizing of God), who has raised him from the dead.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that we are all baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ. When a person is born of the Spirit of God, it is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the time when you are cleansed from your sin, and that is our identification with Christ. It is not water baptism that saves. Peter argued that in his first letter in Chapter 4 that it's not the pouring of water over the flesh, but it's the answer of a good conscience towards God. So for me, it's spiritual, not physical.

But what is baptism supposed to be for? Water baptism is a testimony of the inward work of God's Spirit. Can a person get baptized and still not be saved? Yes! I think we both agree that water baptism is an outward expression, a testimony of the inward work of God's Spirit. In other words, I am baptized by God's Spirit. That's the coming of Christ into my life, the cleansing.

And I get water baptized in order to be a testimony that I have experienced the Spiritual baptism by Christ. Like I said, I can be unsaved and still get baptized in a religious ceremony. But it doesn't mean a thing. It's just water. It's not spiritual. 1 Corinthians 12:13 tells us that we're all baptized by one Spirit into the body.

I'm running out of space. I'll send my thoughts on Romans 6:3-7 in a separate post.

Hi Giannis,

I don't believe we are very far off on our belief about water baptism and Spirit baptism. I do agree that water baptism is symbolic, and baptism of the Holy Spirit not symbolic. Water baptism just symbolizes an action (Salvation) that has already taken place. I'm not sure if you were trying to explain that to me, but I am in agreement with that part.

My reasoning for believing Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are referring to Spirit baptism, not water, would take much more space to explain that what we have here. If you need me to explain, and you are willing to read a much longer post, I can do so. Again, not to debate or change your mind, but to give my understanding.

You posted John 3:3, but I'm sure you meant Luke 3:3. This is where we might differ. First of all, John's baptism is not believer's baptism. It has nothing to do with Christian baptism. This was for the Jews. It was a requirement for them. Luke Chapter 7 tells us that it was a requirement that they go through the baptism of John in order to express repentance and they are ready to surrender to the Messiah.

Luke Chapter 7 tells us that it was God's council that all the Pharisees be baptized by John in order to receive Messiah. And he says they rejected the baptism of John. So it was a requirement that they do both. They had to go through John's baptism and be born of the Spirit. That's for the Jews only.

But John's baptism is not Christian baptism. It was a baptism of repentance for the Jewish people only, and there's a reason for that. Every year, the Jewish people would go down to the Sea of Galilee or to the Jordan River and be baptized. It is called the MIKVAH or MIKVEH. For the believer, when we get baptized in what we call believer's baptism, (water involved), it is supposed to represent and testify to the inward work of Christ of salvation. It is after we are saved.

Well, it looks like I'll need a little more space anyway. I'll respond to your last part in a separate post.

Hellow Jesse.

Thanks for your reply.

As far as the verses Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are concerned, why do you think it'a about Spirit's baptism? Spirit's baptism is not something symbolic for something else as bapt. in water is. One doesn't do anything, simply God sends His Spirit to dwell in him. There is nothing there to symbolize for, I think. And certainly one receiving the HS can not in any case be taken as the burial and ressurection of Jesus.

As you said baptize in greek means to dip, immerse. The Jews practised many baptisms, hands, pots everything. Why? It means to dip them in water just to clean them. That is why John's baptism was for repemting and spiritual cleansing. John 3:3 "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Please pay attention to that "for the remission of sins". If John's baptism was for the remission of sins, how do some of us believe that the christian baptism is not necassary for salvation?

Nice to hear from you again, we may disagree to some things but is nice to talk to you.

Blessings

Hello, Giannis,

I would agree that 1 Corinthians 15:29 is referring to them performing water baptism as a substitute for the dead who were never water baptized for one reason or another. However, I don't think I can agree that the other two verses you gave ( Colossians 2:12, and Romans 6:3-7) are speaking of water baptism. I understand those verses to be referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I do agree on the symbolism of water baptism. Water baptism is an expression, a testimony, supposedly of what God did in my spirit when I got saved. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And yes, I am in agreement with you that the word baptize (BAPTO) means to dip or immerse. Secondly, the word baptism is related to two things, one is cleansing, but it is mostly related to identification.

That is one of the things about Christian baptism, water baptism, is that when you are baptized, it is your testimony of your identification and the inward work of God's Spirit in your life. The second thing that the word baptism represents is cleansing. It was used religiously to represent cleansing.

In the book of Hebrews, the writer of Hebrews says that the Jewish people had many baptisms. And they would practice this, especially the washing of hands. But the Jews would baptize everything, pots, pans, you name it!

Blessings to you also!

Hellow brother Jesse

Brother Chris in one of his posts said that that verse was not clear to him, so I posted my understanding of it. I copy and paste my post to him.

"My opinion about 1 Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

My belief is that it talks about baptism in water in the name of Jesus. Be patient and I will explain myself.

Firstly lets read what the scripture says about baptism in water (what it really symbolizes)

Colossians 2:12

"Buried with him (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Romans 6:3-7

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Baptism in greek means immersion, submersion)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin."

One may argue that the above verses are not about baptism in water, but for me their is no doubt.

So Baptism in water symbolizes burial of our old sinful person in the grave (of the water tank) and the rising up (resurrection of) a new person ready to follow a new holly life, exactly like Jesus was burried after crucifixion and was raised up from the dead.

But if Jesus was never resurrected from the dead, baptism would be in the name of a dead Jesus, that is in the name of the dead/for the dead. Ther isn't any benefit for us in such a case. If Jesus was never resurrected, we are still in our sins and we have no eternal life."

GBU

Bobby,

I'll try to redo Part 4 as best as I can remember.

So I ask myself, why does my sin matter in my relationship with God?

I go to Romans 1:18

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men..." (NIV) Whoa!

And in 2:8

"..but to those whoa re self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath, tribulation and guish, on every soul that does evil..." (NIV)

And 3:10 says:

"As it is written:

There is none righteous, no, not one...."

and in 3:23

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

And 6:23

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

(All NIV, being the translation I have on hand at home.)

So, this tells me that I am guilty and ungodly before God.

Romans 6:6 tells me that "For when we were still without strength, in due time, Christ died for the ungodly."

and Vs. 8 But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

and Vs. 10 "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Ephesians 2:1 "And you He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins...."

Well, we all stand guilty and are all dead to God in our sins, and are enemies to God until we are reconciled to God by the death and resurrection of Jesus, through whom we are regenerated and made alive to God. So, I think, it is good to be alive to God and not good at all to be dead in sin. so, my sin matters to God in that it separates me from Him.

So, I think, why would I want to be reconciled to Him, aside from avoiding being under his wrath and judgment? What is it about God that would make me consider turning to Him? In my sinful state, I would not want to turn to Him, but even then, the Holy Spirit works in me to turn me to God by grace! I am to believe that and act of the grace given to me

Concept of "Master". Over and over in the Gospels; Christ is addressed as "Master". We hear of God's love and salvation; less frequently with an emphasis on Him being Lord of our lives; rarely master. I had one friend of mine from a couple years back frequently start his prayers with that term. We can argue about the slave mentality of the ancient cultures; but how often do we think of ourselves as "unworthy servants" just doing what is required? (See Luke 17:7-10). It is sobering also to think that the scriptures show the absurdity of many today who think that somehow they will treat the servants any better than their "Master" (see John 15:20). As adopted children; we have certain rights and privileges that the "hired hands" don't have. Nonetheless since we are Temples of the Holy Spirit we are to honor God's presence and not grieve the Spirit. We are His possession and are to be fit for His use as He sees fit.

Of course; this all fits in with the fear of the Lord ( Prov. 1:7 etal). It seems like backward logic; at least to the world; who consider themselves free but in reality are slaves to sin ( Romans 6:20 and many other like verses). If we love Him; we obey His commandments. ( 1 John 5:2-3). Love and obedience are NOT mutually exclusive concepts; nor can either survive on their own. Now His saints are free to choose to serve God or to sin; a concept many who correctly believe what's known as the "Grace Gospel" seem to have trouble with. Before we are saved; we are only able to sin. The truth is hidden; as it were like the Parables are to the lost. This ties into His Diety as God in the flesh; hence no earthly saints are to be given special titles such as "Father" ( Matt. 23:9). Let us strive therefore so that we can avoid unnecessary discipline through sins. The way the world views punishment now; His chastisements may seem unduly harsh. It is better than ultimate judgment in hell; and for our own good.

Agape.

Bobby, bear with me please.

Part 4

So,, I come to believe that Jesus was the sinless Son of God who became human in order to be the sacrifice needed to take away the sins of the world for all time. The next question I have is: "Why did my sin need to be taken away, and especially by the death of Jesus?"

So, I read in Romans 6:6-10 says

"..knowing this, that our old man (sinful self) was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him, For the death that He died, He died to sin once and for all, but the life that He lives, He lives to God."

and further in this chapter, Paul writes. " For you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. but now having been set free from sin, you have, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit of holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." ( Romans 6:20-23)

This tells me that the difference between being a believer in Jesus or a disbeliever is that sin brings death to all, but those who believe in Jesus receive eternal life.



Well, my next question is: Why is it so good to have eternal life with God in Jesus Christ?

And for me, I guess the answer to this question is, first, the alternative is eternal death without God in hell. Revelations (20:11-15)

But the gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ which is the result of His sacrificial death on the cross to take away my sin and reconcile me to God, who is absolutely pure and sinless. Is this something I desire?

...continued

Hi Chris

My opinion about 1 Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

My belief is that it talks about baptism in water in the name of Jesus. Be patient and I will explain myself.

Firstly lets read what the scripture says about baptism in water (what it really symbolizes)

Colossians 2:12

"Buried with him (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Romans 6:3-7

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Baptism in greek means immersion, submersion)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin."

One may argue that the above verses are not about baptism in water, but for me their is no doubt.

So Baptism in water symbolizes burial of our old sinful person in the grave (of the water tank) and the rising up (resurrection of) a new person ready to follow a new holly life, exactly like Jesus was burried after crucifixion and was raised up from the dead.

But if Jesus was never resurrected from the dead, baptism would be in the name of a dead Jesus, that is in the name of the dead/for the dead. Ther isn't any benefit for us in such a case. If Jesus was never resurrected, we are still in our sins and we have no eternal life.

GBU

GOD IS LIFE and LIFE IS GOD

The BODY is only a vessel that holds THE LIFE OF GOD.

When the body DIES (the wages of sin is death: Romans 6:23) it returns to the dust from whence it came.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 ALL go unto one place; for all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Job 34:15 ALL FLESH shall perish together and man shall turn again into dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (LIFE) shall return unto God who gave it.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE SPIRIT .....one LIFE

1 Corinthians 15:38 For God giveth it (the new creation, YOU, Christ resurrected) a body as it hath pleased him, and to every SEED his (Christ's) own BODY.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE BODY ....

HELL (Hades) is the grave, where men, the dust of the earth go.

The NEW MAN goes to the presence of God, the Father. as the BODY of Christ resurrected.

Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and FATHER OF ALL .......

Revelation 20:6 Blesses and HOLY is he (the new creation) who hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION.

Matthew 16:24 .....DENY YOURSELF ......

Colossians 1:27 .....this mystery ......CHRIST IN YOU ..... you the body (of Christ).

John 17:21 That they (new creation) may be ONE, as thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (new creation) may be ONE IN US ....

Revelation 12:2 And SHE (the church, Christ's bride) being with child (the new man) cried, travailing in BIRTH, and pained to BE DELIVERED.

Whosoever BELIEVES SHALL (at the death of this body of flesh) BE SAVED ....... DELIVERED.

May God give us eyes to see and ears to hear.

God BLESS.

Part 1.

Here by we know.

A Child of God can and should examine themselves.

I gave a recent post on the old man being crucified with Christ and given life being quickened by the Spirit. In other words, being baptized into Christ death and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4. Romans 8:8-13,

Paul gives gave these verses as a rebuttal to anyone having the old nature having dominion over them.

Here are some highly ignored verses and is whereby we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a great concern!

A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.

Now "if" we have been baptized in Christ, we have the love of God in us to love one another.

This is virtue by being in him and him in you.

see part 2.

Hi Gigi.

I believe you are responding to my response to Texsis.

Here's what's noted.

Qs...I've heard 2 different things about baptism. What is your opinion? I believe that once Christ resurrected for us and we are spiritually baptized once we except Him in all that apply, there is no need to get water baptism. can yet not necessary. Yet I keep getting flack for it.

The root of this debate is requirement and always have been. On this thread the evidence is in the parties participating, Adam and Bro Dan has always made it clear that it's a requirement. You have been part of that debate in the recent past also. I know you say you don't believe it does but you argue along side them so you should know.

Secondly, salvation is death and a new birth "AND" sanctification. Not just Positionally where we're hidden in Christ. but practically where he lives in us. We've recieved the earnest of the spirit. This takes us to Romans 6:4. "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Baptism means Identified.

We are Identified with the death meaning the penalty and the power of the old nature is to be recognized as crucified. And we are Identified with Christ resurrection in where we walk in newness of life. That's why the chapter opens up like this- Romans 6:1-4.

So I don't hold the view water baptism symbolizes cleansing of the sins because that notion doesn't complete the Identification. "Baptized into his resurrection.

So I believe When the scripture says believe and be baptized it don't necessarily mean water baptism. It means what takes place once you believe. The baptism John spoke of which is not of man but the Holyspirit. Matthew 3:11.

God bless.

Dear brother Alex N, when you talk about being born again, it sounds like something people have to do themselves. Now you could elaborate a little on what they can not do, think u not? We know that everything comes from the Lord, no one gets there without God the Father Himself. Ephesians 2:18 and mm.

But what we can contribute is and tell the people we meet that they should believe for their own part. so that they do not fare badly on the last day of God. Because faith comes from preaching, or what they hear right? So that they may repent and believe from dead works and believe in the Living God Jesus Christ. Romans 1:16-17

Romans 6:10-11

Thank you that you will never forget what He has done for you. Know that you are highly loved by our gracious God and in what you have been handed down. (if the grammar is wrong forgive me). What gift u have get from Him is precious, always stand strong in the Living Word of God.

God bless u and yours in Jesus name, love u in Christ.

Hi Texsis.

Thanks for replying.

I believe the question is, "is water baptism ESSENTIAL for salvation?" No! It's the Holy spirit that gives life to a sinner dead in trespasses and sin.

Ephesians 1:22- Ephesians 2:1 "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins."

I was water baptized, it was ritual and pointed to what has already taken place once I believed. I was put into the body of believers by the spirit."

Now whatever good I do is by the power of the Holyspirit. that is what the baptism is all about. A NEW LIFE! The focus is on the resurrection! By which way were we given new life?

Therefore, we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4.

The disciples were given a command to go out teach all nations baptizing them, which was a dispensational teaching. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19.

What we have here is a picture of those being saved grafted into the genuine vine, one that gives life and produces fruit as seen in john 15:1-5. And Paul hammers at this in Romans 11.

The emphasis is on the Holyspirit empowering the believer.

God bless.

Part 3.

In Acts 15 the Disciples have a counsel on whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and keep the law, then Peter stands up to address the matter. Acts 15:7-11. Here you have the apostle Peter "A Jew" saying in verse 11, we Jews shall be saved in the same manner as the Gentiles! (By faith) "He's declaring "we jews have to come to the Lord by a new covenant".

This is the new birth spoken by Jesus in John 3:5 when speaking to Nicodemus. This is that which is spoken in

Jeremiah 31:31-34.

So here we have a new birth that provides a new nature that is generated by the Holyspirit. You see aspects of this in

Romans 6:1-23. Also, this is what is meant in John 4:21-24.

Here we have the quickening spirit by the second Adam that gives life under a new covenant where the old covenant brought death to the fleshly descendants of the first Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and 2 Corinthians 5:1-6.

Ephesians 2:1-5 sums it up.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

"AGAIN We're not talking about "Justification" we're talking about sanctification. Romans 5:1-21 handles justification.

GRAFTED INTO THE VINE BY THE RESURECTION OF CHRIST.

John 15:1-5.

Romans 6:6.

Now take these chapters in order-

Romans 6:1-23.

Romans 7:1-25.

Romans 8:1-39.

We are Justified and Sanctified by the blood of Christ and given a new nature under a new covenant that bares fruit by the power of the Holyspirit.

God bless.

The lack of Baptism submersion, doesn't appear to be an unpardonable sin.

Let's address why wouldn't someone want to be Baptized? Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:2-7, Romans 6:3-13,

Is it fear that keeps one from baptism? 1John 4:18, trust? Psalms 56:11, that person may possibly be about to ask another gentle close friend in the Body of Christ to be the person submersing with people of close relation in there nearby or helping, while the Church leader prays or recites scripture. I've seen many believers like youth outreach baptize with Pastor helping. Depending on the fellowship. Matthew 28:18-20,

If the reason is medical, or because of very difficult situation. Luke 23:38-46,

Matthew 10:33, 2Timothy 2:12, Matthew 16:24, Matthew 3:13-17,

Hopefully these are all helpful

John 8:3-12,

Jesus said "go and sin no more"

Galatians 5:19-25, 2Peter 2:9, 1Corinthians 6:8-11, Romans 6:16-23, Romans 8, Romans 13:9-14,

Hopefully these are all helpful

I wouldn't call it a spirit world but I understand your question. The majority of modern churches teach there's no Heaven after death for the elect. This is a lie from Satan. Now, under the Old Covenant those who died in God had been for a time in Hades (the paradise side of Sheol)...such as we understand in part from Solomon

Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

These verse describe not only our being born again in Salvation but equally that God gives those washed in His Blood an eternity with him (Heaven...like or lump it)

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There are two sides of the grave after death: From the unsaved there's Hell and the save eternal life with God

Christ warns...

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So, I wouldn't necessarily say Spirit world as the Holy Spirit lives in every born again believer. So, we know in part of that already. The body can be injured, hurt and pass away. But the soul cannot die and has only one of two destinies after death. That's why Salvation is so very important:

John 3:16-18

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Giannis, I really do appreciate you being open to this topic. The verses you have given a very popular for those who feel we can't be sin free. As you read the Bible be open to the adjectives in the scriptures and text. Ask yourself when you think you have sinned. Is it really a sin. Do I honestly want to leave it or do I like the thought that I can remain in my failures and Christ views me as perfect anyway. IF Christ gives grace to overcome some sins, why can't he give power to overcome all sins. Lets just consider some of the wording of the scripture. 1) Dead to sin or Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon Dye also yourselves to be "dead indeed" unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2)Jesus told the woman at the well "go and sin no more".... not try to do better. 3) 1John 5:8 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God "keepeth himself", and that wicked one "toucheth him not". So we have phrases "doth not commit sin", "cannot sin", "toucheth him not", "dead indeed unto sin", James 1:15 "and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death". The following verse says "Do not err, my beloved brethren". An explanation of what I understand the scriptures in 1 John to mean "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Answer: we know we all had Adam's nature of sin prior to conversion to say we didn't is to deceive ourselves. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us". Answer: All have sinned and come short of the glory of God prior to conversion. The following verse is what I believe is the complete mission of Jesus coming to the earth. 1 John 3:5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin". And by this mission we will "have life and have it more abundantly". Have a blessed day!

Curious what you interpretation of being dead to sin is? Romans 6:1,2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. God Bless you for considering these verses.

Jesus said Go and sin no more. Because it is possible to stop sinning if you want to. If you continue volunteering to sin (fornicate) then you are not in obedience with Jesus. Romans 6:23

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Pray to Jesus to break the bondage of sexual sin, back 10 generations in Jesus name and confess the sins of your fathers. Generational sin can put us in bondage.

Proverbs Chapter 6

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Colossians 3:8 - But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.thee.

Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and money.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)

Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

1 John 5:13-17 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (Read More...)

Dear Pius Joseph JD, The only thing that will send you to hell is rejecting Jesus Christ as Savior. In remorse for your sins and willing to repent of them, ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins, and He will give you a new heart.

This is what the Bible says about being born again.

"As it is written, 'There is none righteous, no, not one.'" ( Romans 3:10)



"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." ( Romans 3:23)

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." ( Romans 6:23)

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." ( Romans 5:8)



"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." ( Romans 10:13)



That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.- Romans 10:9-13

God bless you!