Discuss Romans 8 Page 16

Marke,

Thanks for the question. Giving it some thought, I defer to what Jesus said, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as the unforgivable sin, but it is not clearly defined in His words. But I think that 1 Peter 2:1 speaks of this concerning those who are false teachers among the believers who bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. So, denying the Lord, which is apostasy, is this blasphemy against the testimony of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus, His Person and work of saving atonement. I may be wrong on this. It may be helpful to read the whole chapter in 1 Peter.

Reply to GiGi. If we can sin a sin after we are saved that will result in God's withdrawal of His promise to never leave us or forsake us what would that sin be?

Well said, Doug.

Thanks Erich, You have stated this well, especially the last lines:

We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved if we endure until the end in Christ.

Glory to our Father, the King of all Gods and to our Lord and saviour Christ Jesus.

To be plucked from the Fathers hand, you must first be in His hand. Many will come and many will see and put their trust in the LORD....this is the born again to see, as told to Nicodemus in John 3. Yet many are called but few are chosen.... This is the born again to be entered in.

For the many drop away, as we are shown they are corrupt soil. The Word came to them, but they did not keep His Word, so they could not deny self, they never saw the cross, nor did they follow. They worked iniquity! They walked in flesh and self.

Flesh is made from dust, and dust is land.....soil.

These were never born again to be entered in,

These never saw the kingdom of GOD,

These were born again to see only and never received the Spirit to walk in.

Is why seek Ye FIRST the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness, IS FIRST!

Always, seeking our Lord is First, in all thy ways, in every thing, at all times, day and night, at morning and noon and evening, without ceasing, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORDS name is to be praised.

In 1 Corinthians 13 , this is born again to be entered in.

We know and are known, the glass before us clears , we see clearly through the glass.

And looking unto JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of GOD.

always always always, eyes on JESUS , must look at what you seek to find it .

There are two audiences the Word speaks to,

The born again to see, which is flesh.....and the born again to be entered in, which is Spirit.

When I became a man I put childish things away , The Word of GOD is quick and powerful , the Word of GOD endures forever, the word of GOD does not return to Him void.

For He is great and doeth wondrous things, He is Lord alone, teach us thy ways o LORD

Our Spirits talk at each other. I know you are blessed by God. I enjoyed all verses you gave, every word in those chapters spoke clearly to me. All things work together for good for those who truly love God. Thank you my fellow bride in Christ. My prayers have been answered.

Grace to you and peace from our God, The Father in Heaven and The Lord Jesus Christ.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28 KJV

Erich...Thanks for your response...But John 10 : 29 is not a scripture that can be negotiated or twisted ...Its Absolute...Jesus is saying My Father that gave them me is GREATER then all and No man is able to pluck them from my Fathers hands...Period...And about the parable of the sower that good seed is the living WORDS the very seeds of God...Thats y he is saying to whom the WORD came it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken Jesus's breath/words...Which means you donot understand the ENORMITY of the seed of the sower...Remember NO MAN can pluck them out of my fathers hands.

.....Thats y we cannot fallaway even if we wanted to...That good seed is the very seed of God..Spirit and Life,..We are ALL bought with a price, we are NOT our own...He paid for us with his own blood...If i be lifted up i will DRAW ALL men unto me when the time comes...( when the book is opened in Gods right hand ) Thats when the Kingdom comes..That woman in birth pains

.....That good seed is his WORD and his Word cannot return unto him void...It has to accomplish what it was sent to do a Birth a baby Christ which is the H.G that Child of Promise...Ya gotta realize that the sower of this good seed is the bridegoom..Thats y he has to KNOW us thats when the good seed is sown in our hearts...Thats hearing his voice ( his seed ) Hebrew 11 : 1 impling Faith and Real Faith is a spritual pregnancy simply b/c its the substance of things hoped for ( a baby Christ )...The H.G. The evidence of things NOT seen...Simply b/c the Child is spirit..Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me..She brough forth a man child a baby that is gona rule all nations and her Child was caught up to God and to his throne..Remember the babes and sucklings...His children that gonna result from his seed...They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin..ok leme go Gbu Erich

Hi Sarah. The Jewish Sabbath starts from the evening of the Friday according to our Gregorian calendar. They keep to the same dates as we have them, except that their year is different (their current year is 5782). So whether your calendar shows Sunday as the first day of the week or Monday as the first, it won't matter, as the Sabbath will always start from Friday evening. And all their other holidays & observances are based on the calendar we have.

As the Jew remains under the Law, it is imperative that they abide to the given Law, for by it they will be judged ( Romans 2:12). But for the one In Christ, our judgement was at the Cross & the Law has no hold or gives any penalty to us ( Romans 8:1-4).

I do not believe Christ saves a sinner but then makes that salvation dependent on that sinner keeping himself pure enough from sin not to warrant being rejected by Jesus in the end.

Reply to Doug

I believe foolish virgins with no oil in their lamps, professing Christians with no fruit of the Holy Spirit and no works to evidence genuine faith, and foolish hearers who build their houses on the sand are all pictures of sinners who never get saved because God saw they valued other things more than God, like the eager young man in Matthew 19 who valued his money more than salvation.

I do not believe we are running a race with the end goal of obtaining salvation in the end for scoring well on the run. Christians are immediately saved as soon as the Holy Spirit fills them in response to their whole-hearted search for forgiveness and salvation on the basis of Jesus' death on the cross.

Ephesians 2:8-9 Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Response- Yes, by grace we've been saved (past tense). We're told in the next verse that we're made for the purpose of good works. This gives evidence to genuine change in heart & we need to guard our heart (ref. Heb. 3: 12) That's why we can look to Rom 2:6-7 " Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient CONTINUANCE in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:" You can see from this text that salvation starts at the moment we believe on Christ, but, is not a 1x event. It is a lifelong walk. (Reference Rom. 6: 16 & Gal. 6: 7-9)

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Response- John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they FOLLOW me (present continuous tense). Those who actively follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. John 10:28 is such a blessing to know that no one can take me out of the love of Christ, but, even as Jude warns we are to keep ourselves in the love of Christ.

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are par takers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Response- Heb. 12:8 teaches how God corrects His children with the objective of bringing the backsliding back on the strait & narrow. However, we still have a free will and need to come back on our own. Ref. James 5:19-20; 2 Chron. 15: 2)

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Response- 1 Cor. 5:5 is talking about casting a sinner out of the church, as they could bring grave sin, hence a little leaven leaven the lump. Not a OSAS verse. See 1 Cor. 10: 7-12; 1 Cor. 15: 1-2

We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved it we endure to the end in Christ

Hi Alex, so I see where you are coming from, but, Bionically speaking you appear to be painting half the picture. I am already aware of the wheat and the tares. The purpose of this parable is not to prove OSAS. As a matter of fact, this is a final judgement parable and the fact that children of God and children of satan are going to be together, among one another, until Christ's 2nd coming. However, when I look at this parable in conjunction to all the other parables of scripture, and the teachings of the epistles, I think the Bible differs from what you are saying.

Biblical salvation is not a 1x event & we have to look at the warning passages & understand that the promise of eternal life is conditional. For example, Paul writes in 1 Cor. 15: 1-2 "Moreover, brethren (fellow believers), I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received , and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain." Notice that salvation is conditional on our continued faith in Christ.

Col. 1: 22-23 "to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard". Again, notice the condition for salvation.

We also see the promise of eternal life is conditional on continued faith, which doesn't make it a "work" or "keeping myself saved". Christ is still doing the saving, even though we must remain steadfast in the faith.

1 Peter 1:5 is clear that we are kept by God through faith. God is doing the keeping, it is still His gift. However, it is OUR faith (continued present tense in the Greek).

The point of the wheat & tares is that there are going to be Christians and non-believe together until Christ's coming. Only those who remain steadfast, grounded & endure to the end will inherit the gift of eternal life (ref. 1 Jn. 2:24-25 & Rom. 6: 22)

Marke, you stated "It is also impossible for a Christian who is saved because he yielded to the witness of the Holy Ghost to come to Jesus for salvation to then refuse to do that after he has already done it. Christians get saved once, not over and over again." Can you please reference the Bible verse that says it's impossible for a Christian to refuse salvation once they have done so? And can you reference the Bible verse that says one doesn't get saved over and over again.

How about the parable of the prodigal son? He was at home with the father, but, of his free will went out on his own and ended up lost. He came back again and we forgiven. He was dead and was made "alive again". Some may say this is a reference to the initial "born again" experience ( John 3). However, this is different because the prodigal son was already with the father before becoming an "apostate".

How about Rom. 11: 23 "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again." This is in regard to the state of grace the gentiles were in and their need to remain in Christ or be cut off. Likewise, anyone who comes back to Christ can be graffed in AGAIN. This was a clear admonition to the Gentile converts to remain in the body of Christ or ultimately be lost.

There are so many warnings in the NT alone to think that it is impossible for one to walk away from Christ, renounce their faith, and still go to Heaven. And there is no proof in the Bible that everyone who renounces their faith was "never really saved". Some, yes. However, that doesn't negate the warnings to the true believer to remain in Christ or be cut off from eternal life. The Bible teaches salvation is a walk with Christ, not a 1 time event.

If one who renounce Christ is "never really saved", then how can anyone know if they are really saved, since we can't predict the future. We can have assurance of salvation and still take the warnings to remain on guard serious.

Marke, I see where you are coming from on point 4 and I've studied this topic in depth. However, when reading this with the parable of the 10 virgins it make a lot more sense. In that parable from Matthew 25: 1-13, there were 10 virgins with oil in their lamps. The oil represents the Holy Spirit, in which they are the "light" of the world. The virgins represent the church (ref. 2 Cor. 11:2). Now, 5 were foolish and let their oil be quenched (ref. 1 Thes. 5:19). Now, when the 10 got to door and were greeted by the groom (representing Christ on the day of judgement) he told the 5 foolish virgins he "never knew them". That seems odd that he would not know them just because they let the oil burn out. They didn't guard their oil and tend to it, and they ended up in the darkness of night (hell).

We know from Eph. 1: 13 that we are sealed w/ the Holy Spirit when we believed on Christ, but, even seals can be broken. We also see in Eph. 1:14 that the Holy Spirit is our earnest, but, that is not a guarantee. If we could never have our names blotted out of the Book of Life and forfeit the Holy Spirit by not remaining faithful to Christ then why would Christ even tell his followers of the parable of the 10 virgins?

You also said that nowhere in the Bible does Christ say that he once knew someone and then didn't. For that, I go to Rev. 3:16, in which Christ spits out the lukewarm Christian. This is not a depiction of someone who was "never in Christ to begin with" but someone who was in Christ and is spit out.

Also Rev. 3: 21 "To him that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." To overcome means to endure to the end ( Matthew 24:13)

Paul speaks under inspiration of the Holy Spirit tell Christians in Rom. 6: 16 that only those who obey Christ will inherit eternal life. This is not a unconditional.

Also ref. 2 Peter 1: 10-11 regarding eternal life. It's conditional, not unconditional.

Marke, regarding 1 Cor. 9: 24-27 you said "Paul likens the Christian life after salvation to that of running a race. He is talking about receiving rewards and commendations at the judgment seat of Christ. He is not talking about running to finally obtain long-sought-after salvation offered in Christ but never vouched by Christ until the race is audited by Christ, in the end, to see if the race was run well enough" However, I disagree with your interpretation of this and will explain.

In v. 25, Paul states "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." You think this has to do with rewards (plural). However, this is singular. We compare this to James 1:12 "Blessed is the man that ENDURETH temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life (eternal life), which the Lord hath promised to them that love him (conditional promise!)." and Rev. 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou FAITHFUL unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life (eternal life)."

In both James and Revelation there's enduring and overcoming. There are conditions to God's promise of eternal life.

As for "cast away", I fail to see the connection between being a cast away and receiving/losing heavenly rewards. Cast away means being cast our from Christ and His Kingdom. Continuing to 1 Cor. 10: 11-12 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he FALL." Fall from what? Salvation! Also, in 1. Cor. 10:4 Paul says they drank of the spiritual rock, which was Christ. Yet, they were cut off and destroyed for not doing God's will. And we know idolators and fornicators won't inherit eternal life.

Regarding Heb. 4:3, this paints half the picture. Looking at Heb. 3: 12-19 through Heb. 4: 11 you'll see that while all who believed do enter into Christ's rest, it's a journey. I've seen a lot of posts in this thread saying that Christians "will endure to the end" or if they live in disobedience they are still eternally secure. If that is the case, Why does Heb. 5:9 say Christ is the author of eternal life for those who obey him? Why are Christian told to continue in well doing for eternal life? Why are there so many if/then warnings. If/then warning constitute conditions.

Regarding Mt. 13:35, I'm not sure what this has to do with unconditional eternal security. Christ's perfect sacrifice was known Him since the foundation of the world. Yet, each individual believer must repent, turn to Christ, & remain grounded/steadfast if they are going to receive the end of their faith, eternal life ( Rom. 6:22).

Regarding Jn 15:16, Christ is omniscient. From the foundation of the world he knew who his 12 apostles would be and who would betray him. Yet, each individual believer must come to Christ and abide in him for the hope of eternal life. 1 Jn 2:24-25 makes this clear.

You also said "Man is a vessel, he has no say IN THE WORKS OF GOD." If this is the case, why doesn't God just save everyone? After all, it's the will of the Father that all be saved. I agree salvation is of God. It's HIS grace & gift to give. Yet, we must receive this gift (that's something we do) & must endure in saving faith for eternal life. And Faith is faith. Remaining faithful doesn't somehow make it "work". Calling it a work is somewhat of a straw man argument.

Regarding Phi. 2:13, this is a primary function of the Holy Spirit, but, we can resist, grieve and quench it. Notice v. 16 "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain." Paul would labour in vain if his converts didn't endure to the end for eternal life.

Hello, your quote of scripture is clear and makes sense, but the last paragraph added with your narrative I don't see anywhere in scripture.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Hi Marke,

I've seen your posts before and agreed with many other of your views and felt they were grounded in Biblical truth. So, this is one area we have a difference in how we interpret the scriptures. To me it's 100% clear what the Bible says, and to you I'm sure you're 100% confident also. But our views are very different and are consequential as we're basically discussing the main aspect of Christianity.

So, let me only address just 1 of your points you wrote: "All born-again believers bring forth good fruit and cannot bring forth evil fruit."

Ok, I can see you took that idea from scripture which is great, but I just don't believe your interpretation as I see you're conflating sin with fruit to the point where you are possibly denying a Christian's ability to sin, is that correct?

Paul was a Christian and spoke about his struggles with fleshly desires and temptation to sin. Romans 7:13-25. So, he was a Christian who bore good fruit, yet still talked about his struggle with sin. He had to fight against it. He talked about having on the armor of God and being prepared for spiritual battles: Ephesians 6:10-18. He didn't say, we'll I'm "saved" and my fruit is good so I can do whatever I want. Quite the opposite.

1 John 2:4-6 - this indicates that we Christians continue to have a choice on whether to keep commandments or not. I'm sure you know that Paul's letters were to Christians.

Let me make a clear point. I'm a Christian and read the Bible daily and try to follow Jesus to the best of my ability, but I am imperfect and have temptations to sin just like any other human being. Sin can be fun by nature and I think most people admit to that. If you're so sure that it's impossible for a Christian to sin or do wrong or that we somehow don't have the freewill to, and is impossible to do wrong or to not follow Jesus, does that mean tonight I can choose to go out on the town and commit all kinds of sin that my flesh desires and you think I'll have no consequence?

Good Morning Earl,

Thank you for your prayers. My Mom is hanging in there, but very ill.

Here are my responses to the Scriptures you gave me. (Part 1)

In reading Romans 8:29-30 it says, "For whom He (God) foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image of His

Son (Jesus), that He might be firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He justified; these He also glorified." (NIV)

I understand this to mean that we are being conformed into the image of Christ in His perfect humanity, but not His deity, because Scripture is clear that God said that there is no other God but Him and He will not share His glory with another. When we are glorified in the resurrection, we will have glorified human bodies like Jesus' glorified human body. But Jesus also received back His divine glory after His ascension. So, He now possesses both a glorified human body and glorified divinity as He had before He was conceived in human form. Jesus, though He is a glorified human being, will always be markedly different from us, because He is also divine along with the Father and the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15 speaks about our resurrected bodies. verses 46-49: "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural (earthly body), and afterward, the spiritual (resurrection body). The first man (Adam) was of the earth, made of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as the heavenly Man (Jesus) , so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust (Adam); we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man (Jesus)." (NIV)

This verse speaks of the humanity of Jesus that was resurrected bodily but in a glorified way. In His ascension, Jesus then took back his divine glory, which we will never have. Our resurrected bodies will be like Jesus' glorified human body.

Reply to Adam.

You quote from 1 Corinthians 9.

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul likens the Christian life after salvation to that of running a race. He is talking about receiving rewards and commendations at the judgment seat of Christ. He is not talking about running to finally obtain long-sought-after salvation offered in Christ but never vouched by Christ until the race is audited by Christ, in the end, to see if the race was run well enough.

Doug:

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believe do enter into his rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although THE WORKS were FINISHED from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be FULFILLED (the works finished before the foundation of the world) which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth IN PARABLES; I will utter things that have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of the Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have CHOSEN YOU (from the foundation of the world) .....

Man is a vessel, he has no say IN THE WORKS OF GOD.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Man is FULFILLING the WORDS and WORKS FINISHED before the foundation of the world.

If you were CHOSEN from the foundation, you will be a FIRST FRUIT

If you were not CHOSEN to be a FIRST FRUIT, you will be brought into the kingdom at the feast if the Ingathering.

God Bless You!

Reply to Adam.

You quote Matthew 7.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Things I see:

1. All born-again believers bring forth good fruit and cannot bring forth evil fruit.

2. All unregenerate sinners bring forth evil fruit and cannot bring forth good fruit.

3. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is really a Christian. Those who show evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit give evidence they are saved, while those showing evidence of a corrupt spirit without the Holy Spirit give evidence they are not saved.

4. In the judgment many lost sinners will point to their good works as evidence they were saved but they still have no evidence of having been born again by the Holy Spirit of God. Jesus rejects their good works and condemns them to the lake of fire, stating emphatically that He never knew them. He says to none of them that He once knew them before they turned back away from Him and lost their salvation.

Reply to Adam. You quoted 1 Peter:

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I see that Peter is addressing Christians only. I also see that those Christians have already been begotten again unto a lively hope. I also see that those Christians are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. I see that those Christians were elect and chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world and that their inheritance is reserved in heaven and shall never fade away.

Peter is encouraging Christians to keep themselves unspotted from the world so that when they are given their new bodies in the end and stand before Jesus at His judgment seat they will not be ashamed for any unrepentant disobedience.

Jesus does not condemn Christians to the lake of fire from the Judgment seat of Christ. Lost sinners are condemned to the lake of fire from the Great White Throne Judgment of God.

Reply to Adam.

You correctly point out in Matt 12:32 that "the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Jesus also said in Mark 3:28 that all other sins "shall be forgiven."

All sinners shall be forgiven all sins except for the sin of willfully and knowingly rejecting the witness of the Holy Ghost pointing the sinner to Jesus for salvation. It is impossible for a lost sinner to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost before the Holy Ghost speaks to that sinner pointing him to his need to come to Jesus for salvation. It is also impossible for a Christian who is saved because he yielded to the witness of the Holy Ghost to come to Jesus for salvation to then refuse to do that after he has already done it. Christians get saved once, not over and over again.

John 15:22

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

John 15:24

If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

2 Corinthians 5:10 - "For we must ALL appear..."

ALL. All means all.

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

In the LAST TIME. It doesn't salvation is given on Earth.

1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

HOPE to the END. It doesn't say NOW. Grace that IS TO BE brought. It doesn't say NOW.

Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"

CHOOSE. It's a daily decision. Freewill is not stripped away.

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Not all believers are saved and not all who claim to be followers.

Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN. I read this and know what it says.

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Believing alone isn't enough according to this verse.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

This is a warning, it is clear, and I understand it. I don't want to test God.

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Jude 1:21 "KEEP YOURSELVES IN THE LOVE OF GOD, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

These verses are the Words of God.

I read, pray for understanding, and know in my heart what these verses say and mean. If another believer says "No, that's not the truth, believe ME instead" then that is a huge red flag of something that doesn't come from God. God bless.

Marke, I am very confused by what you are saying. You are implying that one remaining faithful to Christ is somehow comparable to being late to work? You're saying murderers & adulterers can still be assured of salvation? This is free grace heresy.

Galatians 6: 7-9 "7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of THE SPIRIT REAP LIFE EVERLASTING. 9 And let US not be weary in well doing: for in due season WE shall reap, IF WE faint not." It's safe to say Paul was saved & writing to fellow believers. Notice how he says "we". If eternal security was unconditional I just wonder why he said we reap "life everlasting", including himself, if it can't be lost.

And, is murder and adultery sewing to the flesh or the spirit? The flesh! So, you just said we are still secure in salvation if we murder or commit adultery. Yet, the Bible says only those who sew to the spirit and don't quit will inherit eternal life. I just find this logic completely un-biblical and foreign to the church before the reformation.

Just because God's word teaches we must remain faithful to Christ doesn't make us "Legalists". That's a cop-out from the OSAS crowd who don't want to acknowledge we play a role in our relationship w/ Christ. Let's also not mistake "faith" and "works". You can try to twist faith to be a "work" but faith will always be faith. If remaining faithful to Christ is somehow a "work" then one could logically say that one's initial profession of faith is also a "work". Because, after all, to the OSAS crowd they appear to be more focused on their own one time profession than the relationship w/ Christ. Scripture always talking of us "walking" with Christ, and receiving the end of our faith, eternal life ( 1 Jn 2: 24-25; Rom. 6:22). Biblically speaking, only those who endure to the end in faith will inherit eternal life.

Ronnette:

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially those that believe.

What do you think is going to happen when Christ resurrects those in the graves back to their bodies of flesh the second time; UNTO JUDGEMENT.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature (creation) WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD (those that believe in this age of grace).

Romans 8:21 Because the creature (creation) ITSELF also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (the grave) into the glorious liberty of the children of God (when they are judged).

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them (those that died in unbelief) the judgement written, this HONOUR hath all his saints (those that believed).

Isaiah 26:9 ....an when thy judgements (of the saints) are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world SHALL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been SUBDUED to him ...... GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL.

God Bless YOU!

In addition to my post I just added, I wanted to clarify on what you said when you said "rue Christians are not in danger of losing their salvation because of sin but false religionists are still in sin and will never be saved if they fail to seek the Lord for forgiveness. Lost sinners do not 'lose their salvation' because they never had salvation to begin with"

You are only painting half a picture. Yes, there are many out there who won;t genuinely have the Godl'y sorrow that Paul refers to in 2 Corinthians that leads to true repentance, but, many will. As such, even when we are filled with God's Spirit we MUST remain on guard. If not, then everything Jesus warned about in His Earthly ministry was a lie. Since God does not lie, we have to take Jesus at His word. And, just to set the record straight, while Jesus' ministry on Earth was to "save the house of Israel" ALL of his teaching were for all people, including gentiles who would convert. If one is going to quote John 3:16 then they also need to quote all of Jesus' warning, including remaining steadfast.

So, you only painted half a picture. The other half, which paints a full picture, is that even us who are saved MUST endure in faith. This is very clearly spoken of by Paul, Peter, Jude and James in the NT. 2 Peter 2: 14 says "Wherefore, beloved (true believers), seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, WITHOUT SPOT, AND BLAMELESS." Compare what to Col. 1: 22-23 "yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you (true believer) holy and UNBLAMEABLE and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye CONTINUE in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". Jude says Christ is able to "keep us from falling and present us faultless, but, also says we need to keep ourselves in the love of Christ!

Failure to remain in Christ only leads to hell. No exceptions!!

Sister GiGi, I agree, it's very hard to convey all that needs to be said without being in a face to face discussion.

I have a question?

Romans 8:29

1 Corinthians 15:49

Colossians 1:15

The word says Jesus is the image of God, his Father.

Ephesians 4:6 There is one God and FATHER OF ALL ...

If he's is your father, as he is Christ Father, why would you not be the exactness of his first son.

We were predestinated to be the image of Christ. He is the firstborn of many brethren.

Do you believe you are going to continue as you are now, or do you believe you are a new creature (creation) in Christ.

As we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall bear the image of the heavenly.

God's will be done in the sickness of you mother. My prays are with you and your family.

Concerning your three sons; we both know the promises of God; PERFECTION, we just don't know the time frame.

God Bless you!