Discuss Romans 8 Page 17

Hiya Erich...I hear ya...But ya gotta realiize we are 2 ppl...The wheat and the tares make us 2 ppl...the tares are satans Children...But the wheat is Christ child his seed etc...Its the tares that are made white at repentence,..Satan wants to deceive us..Its the tares that answer to the DOG that returns to his vomit and the sow that returns to his mud...The 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has given birth to the wheat and the tares by satans seed...Its Satans seed the tares that Fallaway but the wheat cannnot fall away Simply b/c the wheat is the H.G that Child of Promise...Jesus said to let them grow together till the harvest...these 2 the wheat and the tares result in a warfare...But being our God is a consuming fire the tares are gonna be burned up...1 is gonna be taken and 1 is gona be left...The 2 men in one bed...But this proves OSAS...The wheat cannot fallaway simply b/c the wheat is the H.G Born in us via the seed of Christ..Which is God...A BABY CHRIST ...Jesus said my Father that gave them me is greater then ALL and no man is able to pluck them outta of my Fathers Hands...So OSAS IS TRUE

...The reason i say that the wheat is a baby Christ is simply b/c the Sower of the good seed is the Bridegroom...Thats y he has to know us ..thats when that good seed is sown in our hearts initiating a birth of Christ in us..The Son of man...Which is mankinds fruit unto God

....Thus the only one who is gonna be lost is our old adamic nature that is in rank with satan...As our God is a consuming fire that is gonna consume mans adamic nature..Satan...I think that is y we need to read Mal. 3 : 2...Who shall abide the day of his coming, Who shall stand when he appears...For he shall be as a REFINERS FIRE AND FULLERS SOAP....As our God is a consuming fire which is baptism of the H.G and fire...Which is what we need....But his judgement is also his love...We chastise our children simply b/c we love them...Right...And nothin can escape the love of God..

Reply to Erich

True Christians are not in danger of losing their salvation because of sin but false religionists are still in sin and will never be saved if they fail to seek the Lord for forgiveness. Lost sinners do not 'lose their salvation' because they never had salvation to begin with.

If Christians must maintain good works after they are saved then their salvation becomes a matter of their own efforts and good works, which is impossible. What sin is so bad that a Christian could lose his salvation and election over, adultery? Theft? Lying? Murder? Being late to work?

Hi Erich, I so agree with what you said about "following Christ is obeying Christ."

Ephesians 2:8-9 for by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourself. It is the gift of and not of works lest any man should boast.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are par takers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Hi ELB, I appreciate the follow up. However, the warnings of God in the OT, whether it is prophecy or not, need to be taken seriously at all times. God is unchanging and consistent. His holy character and nature did not just change from OT to NT. While we stand on our faith in Christ and His atoning blood, we stand on our faith. To renounce Christ as a follower and assume we are still "saved" is a complete mockery of the suffering he endured for sinners. He saved us from sin, not in spite of sin. and, we have a free will to continue with him, or not. However, according to 1 John 2: 24-25 if we don't continue in the Son we will not continue in the Father, and will not inherit eternal life.

Again, I just ask why Paul wrote in Romans 2 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient CONTINUANCE in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:" if we are unconditionally secure. Don;t get me wrong, I love the idea of unconditional eternal security, but, it just don't line up with scripture in it's proper context.

Hi Marke, thanks for the follow up. John 3:9 is not a OSAS verse. The one who is walking with Christ "can't sin" because they are covered by the blood of Christ. However, you can't ignore 1 John 1:7 "But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." Only by walking with Christ will his blood cleanse us. This is not a guarentee that a Christian can't be moved away from the hope of Eternal Life, as stressed by Paul in Romans 2 and Galations 6. In addition to that, 1 Jn 2:24-25 lays out the condition for eternal life, which is abiding and continuing in the Son. We ware warned to remain in Christ. If we were eternally secure all these verses would read "the one who is in Christ will remain in Christ", but, it doesn't. There is the if/then condition, which is clearly salvation related.

Take the parable of the 10 virgins. All 10 started with the oil in their lamps, which oil represents the Hoyl Spirit. 5 were foolish and not on tending to their oil lamps. They let it burn out and were rejected at the door by the bride-groom, representing Christ on the last day. Even though he said "depart from me, I never knew you" doesn't mean they never had the oil! They just let their oil run out. Christ, Paul, James, John, Peter, and all the writers of the OT all echoed the same thing. One who starts their journey with God MUST stay the course. If they don't then they won't go to heaven.

Reply to Erich.

A Christian becomes a new creature when born-again. There are certain sins that Christians are no longer capable of committing, such as denying the Lord that bought them.

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Erich: Ezekiel is PROPHECY:

How does one turn from sin and disobedience.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you and CAUSE you to walk in my statues, and to keep my judgements, and do them.

PROPHECY FULFILLED at pentecost:

Philippians 2:13 For id is GOD (SPIRIT) that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

God Bless You!

I believe it was to clearly point out the fulfillment of Prophecy. Please see:

Son of David prophecy : 1Kings 9:5, Jeremiah 33:17, 2Chronicles 7:18, Psalms 132:11,

The coming promise of deliverance : Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 33:15, proclaimed: Matthew 22:24,43,44,45, Matthew 1:1,

Luke 18:38, some identified JESUS as by different names for significance to themselves, healer, deliverer

Son of GOD : Genesis 6:2,4, Daniel 3:25, Matthew 8:29, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 27:54, Mark 1:1, Luke 1:35, Romans 8:14, Matthew 11:27,

Son of Man : prophecy : Daniel 7:13-14, Revelation 1, Genesis 3:15, Ezekiel 30:1-4, Job 25:4-6, Job 35:8-16, Matthew 24:30, proclaimed : Mark 14:21, John 12, Matthew 11:19,

Additionally he was called the BRANCH : Job 14:7, Psalms 80:15, Isaiah 11:1, Isaiah 14:19, Jeremiah 23:5, Zechariah 3:8, Zechariah 6:12, proclamed: John 15,

Also "shall be called Nazarene " Matthew 2:23,

Hopefully this is helpful

My dear brother in the Lord...NOTHING can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Read Romans 8:38-39.

I have a word strategy to give you from the Word of the Lord. He said in Proverbs 3:6 "...in ALL your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path." "All your ways" means whether you are walking in His will or have walked outside of it.

You are a believer and you are connected to Him, that is the reason you even care to ask this question. Because it concerns you. You know this is not his best, and you are reaching for the promise of His best which is in the life of Christ. Deliverance is yours so let's go to God and believe Him for your freedom. Freedom belongs to you in Christ.

Don't feel guilty because you are taking medication. Instead of allowing the devil to shame you. Let the shame return to the devil by holding up the medication to God and acknowledging the medication to God.

Pray and say "God, healing is not in this medication but healing is in your Word. You sent Your Word and healed them all, and that includes me. I use my voice to declare this. My dependency is not for medication, but my dependency is upon your Word. So even as I take this medication I ask you to bless it and make it fit for use, and remove from me any dependency for it. I put my trust in you. In Jesus Name. Amen.

ELB- You can't define disobedience? Negotiating what disobedience is can be very dangerous because it opens the door to willful sin and the assumption one's saved by a previous profession, as opposed to a walk with Christ. It's anything that goes contrary to God. We are told by Christ that HIS commands are to believe on Him and love one another. All god's commandments hinge on love. Christ is clear and unwavering that we MUST follow His commands, end of story. To say we love and follow Him, but, have hatred in our hearts is a demonstration that we walk in darkness. Let's look at 1 Jn 1:7 "But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin". Notice that? ONLY by walking in the light will Christs ATONING blood cleanse us. We are not guaranteed "past, present & future" sins forgiven. Only past sins IF we walk in the way of Christ. Again, HE is the judge, not us. Paul is also clear in Heb. 5: 9 that Christ is the author of eternal life for all those who OBEY Him. Obeying is actually following Christ, not just systematically believing in facts about Him & assuming we have "free grace" and can never be "plucked" out of the hand of God.

Let's look at the OT, and please don't try and say that this was a different "dispensation" or that this has nothing to do with eternal life. This is salvation-based and demonstrates how God is never changing from Genesis through Revelation.

Ezk. 18: 20-21 "The SOUL that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will TURN FROM ALL HIS SINS that he hath committed, and KEEP all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Also, please explain Gal. 6: 7-9 & Rom. 2: 6-8 if OSAS is true.

Erich:

What is DISOBEDIENCE:

Is it not, not believing what God says.

Not believing is disobedience.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH in you TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Most DON'T BELIEVE these WORD'S of God.

Do you believe that everything being done, IN YOU and BY YOU, is God's will and is God's work.

Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of my anger, and the staff in their hand is my indignation.

Isaiah 10:6 And I WILL send him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath WILL I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and tread them down like the mire in the streets.

Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed HIS WHOLE WORK upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I WILL punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

Isaiah 10:13 For he saith, by the strength of MY HAND I HAVE DONE IT .......

God didn't punish the king for stealing, raping the women, dashing the children against the streets, and killing men:

He punished him because he thought HE DID IT instead of UNDERSTANDING it was THE WORK'S of GOD through his hand.

TRUTH:

We are the vessel; Christ is the LIFE, TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Not believing these words causes us to walk in disobedience.

The sins of the flesh are covered by the blood of Christ; NOT BELIEVING his WORDS keeps us from being ONE.

Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE BODY (man) and ONE SPIRIT (Life and Truth).

God Bless You!

So let me ask you a simple question is Once saved always saved; yes or no ?

If yes ; just Get saved and God will do the rest , no need to do any thing , a common response . No fear or concerns .

If no : then be careful how you live , it could be fatal . Yes with faith and Gods help we can do it , common response , its worth it considering the option.

This must be the biggest question of all time in my Opinion . My belief is Only the Bible has the truth , and it must convince any one , or they just my get deceived . Jesus said Beware lest any man deceive you . Our eternity is at stake .

Unfortunately, you have an incorrect view on this. Salvation is conditional on one's continued walk with Christ, like it or not. To say that one can wilfully walk away from Christ and live Disobedience to God will go to heaven is a direct violation of Hebrews 5:9 where we are told that Christ is the author of eternal life for all those who obey him. Also, your response is in direct conflict with Romans 2:9 where Paul says only those who continue walking with Christ will have eternal life. Notice the condition there. This is also in direct line with 1st John 2: 24-25. John clearly says that only those who abide and remain in Christ will receive the promise of eternal life. There is no guarantee there, unless one remains s in Christ. Again, I ask you to show me the Bible verse that states specifically that one will remain in Christ automatically if they are saved. The early church did not teach once saved always saved and specifically highlighted that if one walks away from priced and does not return to Christ will end up in hell. Justin Martyr, for example, addresses this and specifically highlights True Believers that walk away from Christ. The promise of eternal life has conditions and doesn't make it any less of a promise. There is always an if/then connection when it comes to Salvation. Again, you can't show me a Bible verse that so shows True Believers are automatically saved. Everything is based on our continued faith. If what you're saying is true, and it's not, then who can ever really know that they are a True Believer? And, if you are saying that one can be disobedient and end up in heaven makes God a liar and an accessory to sin.

Hi Marke,

Thank you for your response. It is much appreciated. Just as I was saying in my other posts, it is nice to get feedback from others. However, I must say that the Bible is very clear in it's warning to all believers about falling away. There is no such thing in the Bible that says true believers will never fall away. If that was the case the Bible would be clear about that. However, the Bible is clear, like it or not, that salvation is conditional on our continued faith and walk with Christ. It is very easy for one to say "true believers" will never fall away. However, the only believers in the Bible are "true" believers that the writers are writing to. This idea that once someone is saved they are just automatically always saved, even if they live in disobedience, conflicts with the Word of God that says in Heb. 5:9 that Christ is the author of eternal life for those who obey him. Now, you mention physical death for those who are disobedient, but, James 5:19-20 mentions the spiritual death from "brethren" who err from the truth. Brethren are believers. So, as you can see Christians are not just automatically saved. Paul even knew this and address this many times over. Lastly, don't misrepresent 1 Cor. 11:30 as all encompassing. While there are some who were disobedient and it led to sickness and death, that does not account for those who willfully walk away from Christ. Those are 2 different things. The problem with those who believe in OSAS is that they always need to slightly twist verses out of context to fit their agenda, whereas I just let the Bible speak for itself in it's proper context. Whether you like it or not, the Bible is clear that salvation is conditional on our continued faith in Christ. No endurance to the end, no salvation.

Please reference the Bible verse that says saved Christians cannot walk away from Christ and be lost. The Bible does not say that true Christians cannot be lost. The Bible was written by true Christians to true Christians and warned true Christians not to fall away. This idea that "true" Christians are immune to sin is complete nonsense and a dangerous doctrine. The KJV Bible is extremely clear in what it says. God is consistent from Genesis to Revelation and those who do not remain faithful to God will end up in hell. That is the only truth, like it or not.

Colossians 1

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

It is likely that Christian churches down through the centuries have always had more false believers than true. The Bible is written to the Church to the saved and lost together, and God never encourages believers to take comfort in their salvation and ignore their responsibility to go on with God. Those believers who do not pay attention to God's word and never get saved will end up falling away into hell.

True believers have a responsibility to walk with God in fear and trembling, seeking always to please Him and obey His word. A true believer who walks in disobedience cannot be lost again, but he can become less profitable and may be taken out of the world early because of that.

I typed up a response earlier but lost it by hitting the wrong key. At any rate, the Bible teaches that there are two main types of professing believers. 1. The saved, and 2. The lost. Lost professing Christians can fall away from Christ and return like a dog to his vomit, but saved Christians cannot.

It is possible for Christians to live in disobedience and be taken out of the world for disobedience, as alluded to in 1 Corinthians 11:30

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

However, the Bible is full of warnings for professing believers not to trust in their profession if their profession is not genuine. That is where so many Christians confuse fake Christianity with real Christianity. Christians who are truly born again will never lose their salvation and they are told in 2 Peter 1:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Christians are not to be puffed up and idle about their profession. Christians need to make their calling and election sure by growing in the Lord to gain the assurance from Him that they are right with God and not just deceived.

False Christians should also give diligence to apply themselves to seeking the Lord and studying the Bible to discover that they are not saved and need to seek salvation that is real.

Nobody "does things" to get saved. Doing things will help the sinner find or gain assurance of salvation, but will not give the sinner credit with God by which to earn or buy salvation.

Hi Jesse, I appreciate the follow up. Very interesting topic to discuss and I think the most important thing to recognize is that the true believer will test their faith and stay in the word of God. They will have a conviction if the are drawing back from God because that's the Holy Spirit working in them. Great explanation and thanks for clarifying. It's refreshing to have a conversation with a fellow believer who is not just trying to win a debate. I think as Christians we need to be united in our condition and faith in Christ if we are truly going to be the light of the world and lead the lost to Christ.

Since we are on the topic, I'd love if you can offer some insight on Romans 2: 6-8. That verse also appears to lead the reader to conclude eternal life can be lost. Your insight on this is greatly appreciated!

Erich,

I'm happy to discuss Colossians 1:23. It says "if you continue," and it sounds like its conditional. You can be reconciled, have the promise of this position before God in His representation of you, but if you don't continue.

This is the construction in Greek that's called the first class condition assumed to be true. He's not saying if you continue on. He's saying since you are continuing in the faith, and listen to this: having been grounded and settled, and not being moved away.

There's a lot there, but basically having been grounded, every Christian that receives Christ has been grounded, and they continue on because of that. They are settled in Christ. They have received Christ. And then we have a Present Participle in the Greek text: "And are not continually being in the promise of being moved away."

So it's not just a one-time condition where somebody says "I moved away from Christ and I lost all my salvation." There are people who are in the process of continually being removed from Christ. They are not true believers. They do not continue.

In fact, Jesus in John 8:30-31 tells us that to those Jews who have believed in Him, He says my genuine disciples continue in my word.

That's one of the characteristics of a believer. Some people you have to nag to stay in the word. If a believer, somebody who is born of the Spirit of God, if he or she tried to get away from the word, they are miserable.

And so with a genuine believer, Jesus says that they will continue in my word. If you try to stop, the Lord will convict you and deal with you. That's a characteristics of a true believer.

We don't get this from our English text because English is such a general language. But the Greek text reads, "Since (you are) continuing in the faith, having already been grounded and settled, and (you are) not being moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Jesse,

Again, I really appreciate your response, and I am actually hoping you could offer further insight into Col. 1:23. As I re-read this passage in scripture I notice that there does appear to be a condition to our salvation that does hinge on our continued faith in Christ. I do understand what you mean by salvation being a promise, but, even promises do often have conditions. I hear that a lot from my brothers and sisters in Christ who believe in Eternal Security, but, just don't see how unconditional security lines up with scripture. Let's look at Col. 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". We see 2 things going on here that make this conditional. 1st, we see that we must "continue" in the faith. 2nd, we must not be "moved away". It is only when those 2 conditions are met that Christ will present us as holy and un-blamable.

If I may ask, when the writers of the KJV of the Bible were translating Col. 1: 23 why did they not just say "those who are filled with the Holy Spirit will endure to the end"? It just seems to confuse the reader to translate this as a conditional statement, but, not have any conditions to it. God is not the author of confusion, and I believe the writers of the KJV were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so why would Col. 1:23 be worded this way?

I value your insight and follow up, as I love friendly dialogue. thanks!

Thank you for the reply! I really appreciate your insight on this and it is always nice to have dialog on these platforms! Again, much appreciated and God bless you!

Erich,

Very well said, Amen! That was the teaching in the early church. A person had to be born of God's Spirit in order to claim Christ as their Lord and savior. Romans 8:9 tells us that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

If I might add, salvation is not conditional based on what we do, but on what Jesus Christ has done for us. Colossians 1:23 says, "If ye continue in the faith," so it sounds conditional. But the literal translation from the Greek is, but the one who (has endured), not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.

Because it is an Aorist Participle in the Greek, it shows the proof of those who are saved, and it matches the rest of the teachings in the New Testament. The person who is saved WILL endure to the end, guaranteed! So we have the proof, and secondly, the promise of salvation. That is a promise!

I heard someone once say that the bible uses a lot of future tenses to show that salvation isn't here, it is later. No! That is a promise. A person is saved now. And when all this is over, the ones who will be saved are the ones who have endured unto the end.

So, I agree that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life, but I would also say that the person who is saved (Born of God's Spirit), that person will endure to the end. Why? Because God's Spirit in them will cause them to endure to the end. Like you say, we are the ones being kept by the power of God through faith. He keeps us saved, all the way to the end.

Again, very well said, and thank you for sharing this!!!

Love the Book of Romans. Here in ch. 8 we see a very clear explanation on how the Spirit filled Christian is to live. We stand by faith, and our faith in Christ is the means of our salvation. 1 Pt. 1:5 tells us we are kept by the power of God through faith, which is a living continual faith that is rooted in love and obedience to Christ. Now, some may say "What does it mean to be obedient to Christ?". It not only means to believe on Him, but, to express it in love ( John 13:34; 1 John ch. 1-2). How can we, as followers of Christ, say he is our Savior from sin and the penalty of sin, but, continue living in willful sin? We can't. Some will say that I am preaching a "work-based salvation", but, I am preaching a Biblical based salvation. One that is centered on the committing and dedicating our lives to the one, and only one, who gave His life for forgiveness of our sins! Only those who truly commit their lives to Christ will be saved. Anyone who claims Christ, but, lives in the flesh is not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven.

We, as followers of Christ, need to follow the Holy Spirit and set our minds on the things above. We were once alienated from Christ based on our wicked works ( Eph. 2: 2-3). We were once children of darkness, but, now are saved by the blood of Christ. He is the one who presents us holy and un-blamable in the sight of God IF we continue in the faith ( Col. 1: 21-23; Gal. 5: 1-5). We also see that Biblical faith is one that expresses itself in love ( gal. 5: 6). We need to remember that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life ( Romans 2: 6-11; Gal. 6: 7-9; Mt. 10: 22; 1 Jn. 2: 24-25; 1 Cor. 15; 1-2).

This prophetic psalm shows Judas Iscariot and all the evil to befall him and his descendants.

Note the first couple verses where prayer and a general attitude of love was shown (Christ until the end had him as a "trusted friend" ( Psalm 41:9). The curses on the wicked indeed can affect generations in the future (v. 10). Satan himself; in fact entered Judas after the sop was offered and at that point Jesus told him to do what he had planned quickly. When we look at verse 6; we are also reminded of the nation of Israel as a whole ( John 5:43). They will accept Antichrist with Satan at his "right hand" as Revelation states. Verse 18 speaks of another verse about Judas mentioned in Acts 1:18 and detailed in the Gospel of Matthew when he fell off the rope he hung himself with. We are also reminded of the situation of Acts 12:23 with Herod; and other verses where similar ailments took away the wicked.

From verse 20 on; we of course can apply similar logic with David's situation as the Son of David; namely Christ Himself. Verse 28 seems to refer to the Resurrection of the wicked (when they rise); as every knee shall bow; every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father in Philippians 2:10-11; but also in Isaiah and many other books of scripture as well.

We must look to Deuteronomy to understand that God still blesses the "thousands" that call on His name; despite generational banishment and curses for the disobedience and sin actions of ancestors ( Deut. 5:9-10). This chapter though shows how someone can be called AND chosen; albeit with the foreknowledge that they would be of the Devil from the beginning. This was of course to fulfill prophecy; but also God uses the enemy to buffet servants such as Job and Paul to accomplish His purposes. Let us not ascribe to such behavior ourselves! Surely we do not understand all His ways; nor forsee how all things for those who LOVE Him turn out for the good ( Romans 8:28).

Romans 1:18-32, Jeremiah 19:5, Romans 11:33-34, Romans 8:7, please read all of Romans 8,

Ephesians 4:14-32, 1Corinthians 2, Psalms 139, Colossians 3:12-17, Isaiah 26:3, Philippians 2:3,

2Timothy 1:7,

* Romans 12:1-2, Romans 12, Psalms 1:1

Hopefully these are helpful

Hello John. I only recall there is only one Tribulation still to come. It is called, The Great Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21). Jesus said in John 16:33, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Here, 'tribulation' is simply the sufferings, hardships, even persecutions that we all might face (as also Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc.). But the Great Tribulation that Jesus speaks of, & other epistle writers also refer to, is the time of the outpouring of God's Wrath ( Revelation 6:17; Revelation 16:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6); an anger against the accumulated wickedness of Earth's inhabitants which cannot be held back by Him any longer. The deaths & devastation will be frightening to say the least & the world will know that this is the Anger of the Lord upon them & none will be innocent bystanders - all those left on Earth will stand guilty before Him.

Tribulation definition online: "a cause of great trouble or suffering"

Deuteronomy 4:29,30,31, 1Samuel 26:24, Matthew 13:20-21, John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Romans 5:3, Romans 8:35-39, Romans 12:12, 2Corinthians 1:3-5, 1Thessalonians 3:4, 2Thessalonians 1:6, Revelation 1:9, Revelation 2:9,10,22,

There seems to be a difference between tribulation & The great Tribulation,

Matthew 24:21, Romans 2, Revelation 7:14,

Matthew 24:3-51, Mark 13:4-37,

1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 Peter 4:8 - And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Romans 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1 Thessalonians 4:4 - That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

Romans 13:10 - Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Ephesians 4:1-3 - I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, (Read More...)

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Colossians 3:14 - And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Ephesians 5:9 - (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Matthew 7:15-20 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Read More...)

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Corinthians 13:1-5 - Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (LOVE) I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal__