Discuss Romans 8 Page 32

Michael,

Please. This conversation does not seem to be going anywhere. I already said I was done posting but when someone asks me a question I feel to answer. As I have already answered this to your question of "how do you pray in the Holy Ghost". You gave no post to what I replied. Only "you agree with the Word of God".

Do you not believe that the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God, comes into you and sups with you when you are born of the Spirit? There is no need to speak in unknown tongues to pray in the Holy Ghost. God knows every single word out of your mouth, every single thought in your mind, and knows our hearts. He knows everything about all of us and better than we know ourselves.

You say you agree with with the Word of God and what's written. Although only the verses that you like to mold to fit with your beliefs. As I have posted numerous verses from the Holy Bible and questions about them and have not received any answers from you.

Again Michael. If you don't believe I have received the Holy Ghost just because I cant murmur an unknown language. Like I said before you are wrong. I know and say in truth I have been Blessed to received the Holy Ghost because of what has happened in my life. All glory and thanks to our Father in Heaven through our Lord Jesus Christ.

( 1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:

God Bless you.

After having been given God's holy spirit, and then denying that he exist, is to blasphem against the Holy Spirit; to my understanding.

1 Corinthians 14:1-4 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: (If it is an unknown tongue (language), it is reasonable to assume that men would not understand it, but God understands all languages, so a person speaking in an unknown tongue would be speaking to God. for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;(showing off) but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." Tongues are for them that believe not.

Tongues are for them that believe NOT. 1 Corinthians 14:22 "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." As Christians we walk by faith, not by sight (sings, tongues). 2 Corinthians 5:7 "(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)".

Tongues were a sign gift to the Jews, because their Nation started under Moses with sign and wanders; miracles of all sorts. The tongues sign was to bear witness to the Gospel for the Jews ( John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." So if someone was speaking in tongues today, would they be speaking to Jews; for the Gentiles don't need a sing?

Jesus is the same, but dispensations are not, and ages are not the same, and what the Jews believe to be save, is different from what the Gentiles believes to be saved, and many other things in the Bible are not the same.

Hello Richard

If you say you pray spiritually how do you pray to God who is a spirit ? ...1CORINTHIANS14 V14 THE WORD OF GOD says when i pray in and unknown tongue my spirit prayeth but my understanding is unfruitful..

How do you pray in the spirit according to whats written in the WORD OF GOD ....thats God requires from us

Michael,

So no answer to my one question? Thank you.

I never said I "reject" speaking in tongues of the Holy Ghost. I said I have no interest in this gift. Because I have relationship with the Father and speak/pray to Him in Spirit. I said God Bless them that have the gift of speaking in tongues of the Holy Ghost. You are twisting my words.

As it shows again in your previous post. Your zeal seems to be for a tongue. My zeal is for the love of God and to love one another as Jesus Christ taught us. To produce good fruit of the Spirit and do the will of our Father in Heaven.

So you believe in 1 Corinthians 14:2. So do I. What about 1 Corinthians 12:3-11. That states there are diversities in gifts of the Spirit. Read 1 Corinthians 12 again.

Are you saying that I, and others here, are "denying the power of Gods existence"? You know nothing about me and my relationship with the Father. What you are doing is damaging peoples faith and belief in God. Because not everyone who receives the Holy Ghost, and is born again in the Spirit, speaks in unknown tongues.

You can keep condemning us all you want but it shall not change the truth. You shall be held accountable for your words. Just as we all shall.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus Christ professing that the words He spake were spirit. Yet not of an unknown tongue.

Peace be with you.

Hello Richard

1CORINTHIANS 14VERSE 2 it tells you when speak in and an unknown speaketh not unto men , but into God ....

I cannot believe what i am reading christians Paul saying why we speak in an unknown tongue saying we are speaking to God and you reject it ..I do not have words for the sorrow in my heart how so many christains on here find a way to tell God they do not want to speak to him in his spritual tongue ..actually denying the power of Gods existience

Paul stated, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." 2Co 5:8

Jesus told of a beggar and a rich man in Luke 16:19-31. "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;" Luk 16:22

Jesus went on to describe the the condition of the rich man and the beggar.

"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luk 16:24-25

So we see that Old Testament saints were in a place of comfort. New Testament saints are with the Lord. Both disembodied spirits. But we are promised that the dead will be raised and given incorruptible bodies.

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1Co 15:51-52

Emily,

In this passage, Matthew 24:15-28, Jesus tells His disciples of the a coming time of great tribulation, with the warning, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place."

This is the Daniel prophecy that Jesus was referring to, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Dan 9:27

An event like this happened in 167 BC when Antiochus IV desecrated the Temple and persecuted the Jews.

Some Christians think that Jesus' warning to, "pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:" Mat 24:20 was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Others, including me, believe that this will be a future time known as The Great Tribulation or the time of Jacob's trouble or the Day of the LORD.

can you explain matthew 24:20

Hello Michael,

I have been reading all your comments you have been posting here about "tongues". I see you are picking Scriptures and portraying them to be "only" about speaking in unknown tongues of the Holy Ghost. Like Isaiah 33:19. It says "Thou shalt NOT see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand". The word "stammering" here is the Hebrew word "la ag" Strongs number H3932. Meaning "to deride or speak unintelligibly" or "to mock or ridicule". This is not speaking of the "tongues" of the Holy Ghost.

I don't want to argue with you Michael. If you want to believe that "only" those who can speak in an unknown "tongue" has received the Holy Ghost that is your belief. Like I stated before. To me with my experiences and understanding this is false. I was lead to reply to you.

I'll end with one question. The numerous times through the Gospels our Lord Jesus Christ prayed to the Father, as the very in depth prayer in John 17. Do you believe our Lord was not praying to our Father in the Holy Ghost because it was not in an unknown tongue?

Thank you for your answer. Again I don't want to quarrel. Especially with another believer in Christ so this will be my last statement on this subject.

Have a wonderful day. God Bless.

Hello Richard

I agree with the Word Of God and whats written ...

Every word that proceeds from the mouth of God Jesus said...

Hello Chris The Word Of God also says not TO TEMP THE LORD YOUR GOD ....

Any thing you do deliverately God cannot protect you ..

If you know a snake is dangerous and you pick it up to prove a point your in trouble ..

Many use verse and scripture in the wrong context not discerning spiritual with spritual things ....any deadly thing can be seen this way a posionous snake can be they way a person speaks ...or how you hear....or what you see and assume the opposite as to what you should know about what you see .....Thats why the Word of God says ( LET NOT YOUR GOOD BE EVIL SPOKEN OFF ) ....

If jesus said he is the same today yesterday and forever what does that mean to you regarding the whole bible in general ....

Hello Richard

if you had read what I have being replying to Spencer with you would of notice I like to use scripture because

Jesus said every word that proceeds from the mouth of God and the Word of God also says if another angel brings another gospel let him be accursed..

I particularly use scripture for one reason its God you answer to not me .the word also tells me not to add or takeaway from the word of God it can cost you eternal life..

ACTS CHAPTER 2 Says ....

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in other tongues as the SPIRIT GAVE them the utterance..

And spiritually anyone who speaks in tongues has their own tongue no one has the same...

Michael,

You seem to believe in your own doctrine in that only those who can speak in tongues have received the Holy Ghost. I am sorry to tell you this but you are wrong. Others have posted much Scripture on this that you seem to want to ignore. Nit picking verses like Mark 16 and thinking Jude 1:20 is the same as speaking in tongues. Seeming to have more zeal for different tongues than the teachings of Christ and the Word of God in the Holy Scriptures. God knows when we pray to Him no matter what, of the thousands, of languages it is in. God reads hearts not just an angelic tongue.

. 2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

God Bless those who have the gift of speaking in unknown tongues. Like I stated before I see no use for this gift and am not interested in asking for it. My Father and Lord Jesus Christ know when I am speaking/praying to them.

I wish you well on your journey. God Bless.

Spencer the verse where you mentioned you would get a translator is why when you receive the Holy Spirit you speak in tongues ..God translator .....

Hello Spencer

When you pray in and unknown tonigue you are speaking to God not men and its not the natural man praying its the spirit of God the Holy Sprirt because it knows what God requires of us when we pray .Paul aslo explains that speaking to the natural man in tongues does not benefit them because they would not understand only God does ....and unless you have been in a pentecostal church that uses the sprirtual gifts rightly you will never understand how its used in the church.....Many pentecostal church never use the gifts because they have previeved ideas how its done ......

Nina, May the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and His understanding.



Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

(53) and came out of the graves after HIS RESURRECTION, and went in to the holy city, and appeared to many.

Understanding these scriptures takes other scriptures and the HOLY SPIRIT causing you to understand.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE......

This prophecy is three fold, Christ promises the (called out) saints of the old testament and the (called out) saints of the new testament along with (HIS) dead body would RISE TOGETHER.

Hebrews 11:16 But now they (saints of old) desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called there God: for he hath prepared them a (HOLY) CITY. The one in Matthew 27:53

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (saints of old), having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NO THE PROMISE (eternal life, it would be given to them at Christ resurrection).

(40) God having provided some better thing for us (the called out of the new testament will never see death, we were resurrected with Christ), that they (saints of old) without us (new saints) should not be made perfect (image of Christ, who only hath immortality, [eternal life] 1 Timothy 6:16).

Luke 20:36 Neither can they (the called out) die any more (they [WE ARE SIN] died with Christ on the cross, were buried and arose with him): for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, BEING THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, YE HIS ANGELS, that excel in strength, that do his commandments,

hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Revelation 7:4 Describes the called out saints of the old testament that were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Christ).

Michael

This conversation started on another thread between me and someone else, Our focus was on charity, I didn't then and don't now care to put a lot of energy to the everlasting tongues debate. It seems

you used that opportunity to open up a dialog on the subject go right ahead,

you don't need me to engage. All we did was quoted Paul on that initial thread. You seem to have a issue with Paul's writings. so why don't you explain the verses in your own words. 1 Corinthians 12:27-31. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

1 Corinthians 14:5. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 1 Corinthians 14:7-12 (KJV) And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

Hello Spencer

Do you understand why we pray in tongues be the spirit prays for our future to be with God ...

Book of Jude verse 20 ...Tells us to pray always in the Holy Ghost building up our most Holy Faith says it all

and all you do is want to explain speaking in tongues away ....

Spencer from old to the new testament is a precept put in place by God ..Speaking in tongues confirms spiritually God has given you his Holy Spirit ....God says he gives th Holy Spirit only to htem that obey him ...and if you have not the Spirit Of God your none of his

That's not a question that one could easily answer as all judgement is executed by our great Judge only. And then again, how do you understand a 'backslider'? Is he/she given over to some repetitive sin(s), is now coming to the Lord for forgiveness, but still finds it hard to give up that sin? Or to the other extreme, has that person gone totally into a sinful lifestyle, has no remorse & in many ways, rejected God, & Christ's offer? So, what I'm saying here, has the 'backslider' ever 'slid forward' in the first place? Has he or she, ever been born again by God's Spirit? How these questions are answered may give you a clue as to the state of that soul, & yet there remains a place of repentance which the Lord offers to all in sin.

Can a backslider still make heaven?

Hi Rusty,

My condolence goes out to you, your wife and the family, We will keep them in our prayers. God bless you

What will you have with you always? It is in Proverbs I think

Hi Michael.

I suppose I Would get an interpret who speaks Greek, ""since Greek is not considered an unknown tongue to a Greek. And the interpreter wouldn't have to have the holyspirit to relay the msg.

Or I would go online and use a translator.

However this couldn't be done in those days during Pentecost God did something special for the lost sheep of Israel who had been scattered and picked up other languages. Acts 2:4-11. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with ""other tongues"", as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

"" Notice this next verse, the emphasis here is not on the speaking, it's on the hearing""" The gift to interpret.

((And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?))

Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Michael today the Gospel is being taken to the world mostly by radio and some in person, Not in unknown tongues but in other tongues. ""Not by force, but in Charity. ( Love ).

John 13:34-35. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Covet the best Gift. ( Love) God bless.

My wife, Patsy and her sister, Teresa, lost their only brother Tuesday and they can use some prayers.

Thank you:

Rusty Essary

1CORINTHIANS 14 V 2 ..

For he that speaketh in and unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him: howebeit in the sprirt he speaketh mysteries