Discuss Romans 8 Page 6

Hi James.

I would like to add to what has been shared by Jema and Richard.

Here is a scripture that may adress your concerns on knowing what or whether you should ask for particular things.

Romans 8:26-27.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Commit yourself to the Lord and he will line your heart up with his will.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

Hi David0921,

Good discussion: my understanding of scripture is as yours, man will not be in the lake of fire for eternity, but also somewhat different. In Daniel 12:2 John 5:24-29 Revelation 20:11-15 we see all good, bad, and ugly will be resurrected so everyone will have a conscious existence to answer and be accountable on judgment day, the last day, and my understanding is that is Revelation 20:11-15.

Greek philosophy of the immortal soul has influenced the understanding of death so, if the soul is immortal and cannot die the burning in hell/lake of fire will be forever. Scripture says to me we are mortal, Romans 8:11 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 2 Corinthians 5:4. We see in Genesis 2:7 that man became a living soul, not a soul was placed in man, so when that breath of life/spirit is gone the body/soul is dead. The breath of life, Ecclesiastes 12:1-8 there will we be until the resurrection.

I could say more but in short, just for consideration, if there is eternal punishment, on resurrection day the unsaved will be given what scripture says only the saved will receive, an immortal body and eternal life? "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" So, the penalty for sin will be eternally over and done with, no more sin, and no more death for eternity, forever and ever.

God bless,

RLW

The world does not understand that we are now under a new Covenant....That Jesus gave us at Calvary by his blood ... Romans 8:2.....The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death....Thats y Jesus was saying if i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me.... Jeremiah 31 :34.....I will make a new covenant not according to the old covenant....I will KNOW them All from the least to the greatest.....This KNOW them all is an intimacy that results in Child birth....for every body....Thats y he has to know us ....The Child is the H.G. Thats y Isaiah saw this KNOWLEDGE covering the earth as the waters covering the seas....Its ALL INCLUSIVE....I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh....Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and Child birth... Jeremiah 30:6....And I will stain all my raiment (with his blood ).....There is no fuller on earth that can whiten us like his blood....As we are his raiment.. i was in need of clothin and you clothe me.... Romans 8 :2 for the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death....Thats y there in no more condemnation to them in Christ Jesus....Tho your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow.....Even in the O.T. When i see the blood i will pass over you....And it was all inclusive.....No matter who it was or what they had done.....When i see the blood i will pass over you.....Thus how much greater is this New Covenant by the blood of Jesus....Thus this book that Jesus wrote with his own blood the book of life....That results in a living being born in us....Which is the gift of the H.G. that Child of Promise....A living being the gift of God....Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil CHILD you will in no wise enter there in....k gbu

David921

AMEN Brother David 921:

As God shines light into darkness we are always repenting of the beliefs of the flesh and growing in the grace of God.

I believe as you keep studying and God keeps teaching you, you will keep growing in truth.

I believe you will realize that death of unbelievers is not ETERNAL; but for a specified time, he presently is gathering the priest ONLY; into the kingdom of God, then he will resurrect ALL flesh that has died in unbelief back to their flesh and blood bodies, they will be judged by Christ and his priest and brought to TRUTH, that is the second death describe in Revelation.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Sons of God.

They died in unbelief and are wanting in the grave, for the Sons of God to be gather to judge the world.

Romans 8:21 For the creature itself ALSO (second resurrection) shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death and the grave) into the GLORIOUS liberty of the children of God (through judgement).

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's WORK shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be save, YET as by FIRE (judgement).

Isaiah 26:9 ...when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants SHALL LEARN righteousness.

1 Corinthians 15:28 When God has put all thing under Christ, GOD will be ALL in ALL.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth ALL in ALL.

God bless you.

Revelation 17:15 The waters (seas) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (this is all men, all creation).

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven, and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth (old covenant) were passed away; and there was no more SEA (whores, peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues)

All men DIED (were destroyed) on the cross with Christ, the Old Law of sin and death was crucified on the cross and the New Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus was RESURRECTED.

Revelation is the REVEALING of Jesus Christ.

Only one BODY arose at the RESURRECTION, you are joint heirs of Christ resurrection. Christ ONLY hath immortality.

1 Timothy 6:19 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY dwelling in the LIGHT (presence of God) ...

1 Corinthians 15:54 .... this mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY ......

Romans 8:29 Whom he did foreknow (he foreknew ALL creation) he did also PREDESTINATE (by his resurrection) to be conformed to the image of Christ (being raised together as ONE) ...

God bless you

Heaven Part 2

In my last post; I talked about Peter. He was revealed who Christ was which could only have come from the Father ( Matt. 16:17).

The HOLINESS of God is talked about frequently; perhaps easiest remembered in Revelation 4:8-11 (also found in Isaiah 6:3).

When the Bible describes judgment; and hell viewed on earth such as in Isaiah 66 there is no appreciation of the wicked for His Holiness or any other attributes. Our life as believers is hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and the verse also talks about how we must be "crucified with Christ". Those who believe have truly "passed from death to life" ( John 5:24 with further insights in 1 John as well). So that is the difference; we have either the eternal state of our spiritual condition to be in our fallen sin which is totally blind to His glory and only focused on self; or we are new creations which are now able to glorify God in heaven (and we start now by being seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Therefore we begin now; to rule and reign with Him in a sense-it is a done deal as Romans 8:30; and Ephesians 1:13 states.

Isaiah 53:11 states that He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied; quoting a verse from an entire CHAPTER on Christ which is the famous chapter Jews like to ignore because of clear Messianic descriptions matching that of Christ. His satisfaction therefore will be in ruling and reigning WITH us; with the sons of glory (sort of combining Hebrews 2:10 with the concept of Romans 8:17.) He did it to please the Father first and foremost; but also of course has been given all authority on heaven and earth. ( Matt. 28:18). It is strange to conceive ourselves in a similar way; but nonetheless being part of the firstfruits we also suffer for a time then are glorified and rewarded ( 1 Peter 5:10).

Obviously; as we look to the concept of varying amounts of rewards for either the wicked (punishment) we have the same idea in regard to the saved. ( 1 Cor. 3:15). more in part3

Pg 1

Hi Jimbob. You wrote well though if I could just highlight the 'apostasy' (apostasia), as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, & consider what the Apostle Paul was speaking of here. I realize that it would be simple to understand his statement as applying to believers, before that day of Christ's coming, that some would apostatize by rejecting Christ going back into the world or to embrace another religion. But are we correct to believe that this was what Paul was speaking of in light of his other writings & that of our Lord? (refs. John 10:27-29; John 6:37; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:28-30; Jude 1:24,25; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 2 Timothy 2:19).

When we look at the definition of 'apostasy', it is as you have given ("An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith"). But 'apostasy' is not simply restricted to a 'total departure from one's faith' but also 'a total departure or abandonment of one's principles, party, cause' (and one could even add 'departure from the Word of God which lays out the principles and Truths of doctrine & righteous living').

Unfortunately, the 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5 passage is not explicit to show us how Paul was applying this 'apostasy'. Obviously, the Thessalonian believers probably knew much more than we have been given (v5 'remember...I told you these things?'). Clearly, this apostasy doesn't relate to principles or causes of the world, because its context shows that Paul is speaking of an apostasy that will affect believers in some way. The question then is: is it the rejection of Christ altogether, or a departure/rejection of the Truth of God's Word? But isn't that the same thing, one could ask? I think you will agree Jimbob, that this rejection of Truth & promotion of unbiblical interpretations & lifestyle, has been going on for a long time - from within the Church itself.

Israel was sola scriptura,written word only....They knew the Torah by heart....But Jesus asked them one day which of the Prophets has NOT your fathers stoned.....But Jesus refers to them as you are of your father the Devil....The written word answers to the lesser light but the living word which is spirit and life answers to the greater light.

Thats y Jesus is saying are there not 12 hrs in a day and 12 hrs in a night...But if a man walk in the night... the written word only no spirit or life he is gonna stumble....But if he walks in the light the living word the H.G. That new covenant at calvary he will not stumble...Its only Jesus that is the light of the world....There are zillions of bibles in this world but this world is in deep darkness....

I love the bible but its just a love letter from a far away lover....But my bridegroom is Jesus the living word....We will be married to Spirit and life...Jesus/God ....Not paper and ink...God is much greater then a bible....I probable have 20 bibles in my house all kjv's but my bridegoom is Spirit and life the H.G. The living word....That Child of Promise...If salvation cd have come by the written word the bible then the living Word shed his blood in vain and the Cross was just foolishness....But Salvation is only the result of his blood at Calvary that New Covenant....NOT BY THE LETTER A KILLER THAT OLD COVENANT....The soul that sinneth shall surely die....But under this new covenant the blood at calvary....when he had taken the cup he said this is the N.C. In my blood drink ye all of it....Thus this New Covenant the law of life has made us free from the law of sin and death.. Romans 8:2.....We still get bit sometimes as we are still in the wilderness of sin but our snake bite is not fatal if we behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....ty Jesus....As Moses lifted up a serpent in the wilderness even so must the SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP....The living word. that had to die for us...

The Resurrection and Rapture of ALL True Believers (Jews and Gentiles alike that God will have saved throughout history) is spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the one and only one Rapture spoken of in the Bible. And it will be on the Last Day ( John 6:39,40,44,54), which will occur IMMEDIATELY following the Great Tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. We are currently living in the period of the Great Tribulation. The Resurrection and Rapture are simultaneous events and will initiate Judgement Day when God will execute His Final Judgement upon all those that have not become saved, destroy this sin-cursed earth, and create New Heavens and a New Earth where in ALL True Believers will live and reign with Christ eternally.

There is no future salvation program for Israel as a Nation. And there is no Future Kingdom that Christ will establish on this sin-cursed earth. The Israel that God is concerned about is the "Israel Above" made up of all True Believers (a remnant from every nation) that God will have saved throughout history and will be joint-heirs with Christ in His Eternal Kingdom ( Romans 8:17, Hebrews 11).

Jimbob i will gladly show you a scripture that Proves the Saints are Spirits....Which are the Children of PROMISE THE H.G. Spirits.... Romans 9:8....The Children of the flesh are not the Children of God but the Children of PROMISE are counted for that good seed....The Flesh can only be a joint heir but the real heir is the H.G. THE CHILD OF PROMISE....Not Flesh and blood folks but ..the H.G....As Flesh and blood are not the Children of God thus cannot be ....As its only the H.G. That are the children of PROMISE.....And Sarah shall have a son....Now we are bornagain and have a son which is the H.G. that Child of Promise....and the SAINTS OF GOD ARE SPIRITS....But we are just a joint heir with the H.G. Romans 8:17 kjv....The elect lady which is the Church is the joint heir simply b/c she is the bride....2 John

Jimbob throw that concordence away....Its the H.G. that is the real Saint...We are just a joint heir with the H.G as the gift of God is the H.G. the only real Saint...And elect not man as Paul said in my flesh dwells no good thing....We are not saints but we can be a joint heir with a Saint which is the GIFT OF GOD THE H.G...If we are bornagain ....And this Saint has to be born in us....Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit the H.G....We be just a joint heir if we are the bride....I know that the bible refers to many as Saints but it was b/c they had the gift of the H.G.....The flesh is just a joint heir with Christ the H.G.... Romans 8:17....We are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. ( the gift of the H.G.)....Let the anointing teach you which is the H.G. the gift of God....You need no man teach you the anointing you have received of him the H.G. will teach you all things... 1 john 2:27....And he is our only Saint and gift of God....At the marriage supper of the lamb we will all be made 1 with the H.G....The flesh and the spirit will be made 1...That was his prayer in john 17:21 That we might all be made 1...

The dangers of humanism.

Our walk with Christ involves our spirit testifying with His Spirit that we are indeed children of God ( Romans 8:16). In actuality, I have that verse quoted backwards but it helps to bring home the message. Campus Crusade for Christ used to have as part of it's 4 points to the Gospel that our feelings should never be at the head of our decisions but faith in God. Christ is the captain of our salvation ( Heb. 2:10). Be thou my vision is an old hymn which typifies this concept. In our love for Christ and being part of His Body (the church) we should indeed have agape for one another; feelings as it were of love that is above and beyond this world and it's affections hence tranforming our minds. ( Romans 12:2).

Experientially; however we are prone to look at some nostalgia that somehow we can return to an Edenic state of innocence; as God has put eternity in our hearts. However; to live for ourselves is of course antithetical to living for Christ whichinvolves dying to self. However; the example of Christ being fully God and fully man demonstrates how real emotions of sadness or grief and indignation can be expressed as He sympathizes with us as our High Priest ( Heb. 4:14-16).

In a sense; we have the future hope in resurrection and the glory of the future rule and reign of Christ where we put our treasure. All things are good indeed if blessed by God; whether finding a wife; or meats etc. But sacrifice is something foreign to human nature; if we do such a deed in our own strength it is either to fulfill some longing we have; or for pride or some sort of satisfaction. What doesn't jive with humanism is revealing the root cause of sin; our sin nature and being willing to expose death so that indeed His chosen ones can have life. In the flesh we are only attracted to what our minds are attracted to with our five senses; the Lord operates outside that but we still react to it as vessels of His temple in us ( 1 Cor. 3:16-17).

Houston...we have a problem

As we sojourn through life; there are many pitfalls which we should avoid whenever possible. It is helpful to seek wisdom as Proverbs makes clear it is more valuable than silver and gold (chapter 3; verse 14). Whatever our mission; we do well to consistently check off the boxes; as it were in evaluating how committed we are in our walk as well as be careful to avoid being ensnared in things that so easily entangle us ( Heb. 12:1) in order to run the race to the end.

God; of course is the "captain of our salvation" ( Heb. 2:10) and the author and finisher of our faith ( Heb. 12:2). Having set forth on our trajectory; and not having "shot ourselves in the foot" to cause us to skew off of the path we have Christ as our High Priest; as well as the Body of Christ placed in strategic places. Of course; a lot depends if they are fully aremed as Ephesians 6 describes. Satan always sets out to find the weakest link; and as we know a loose bolt and such can wreak havoc on a jet engine. We can so often consider only our own affect when we fall away rather than collateral damage to others who the Lord would like to use us for as a minister of reconciliation ( 2 Cor. 5:18).

He uses all things for the good for those who LOVE HIM (shouting intentional from Romans 8:28). If we are invaded by hostile forces; and we are walking in the Spirit you can be certain that your light is shining before men thus bringing out that behavior.

Persecution of course is promised for all who would be Godly in Christ Jesus ( 2 Tim. 3:12 and elsewhere). Boldness; however as Paul had helped to spread confidence among the brethren because of His excellent testimony. Would it be that we would be turning the world upside down ( Acts 17:6) rather than those who the world is making shipwrecked ( 1 Tim. 1:19).

Not that I usually quote secular artists but Neil Young said it is better to burn out than fade away (my my hey hey). Let us go out in a blaze of glory.

John 6:65....Jesus plainly tells them NO MAN can come unto me unless my Father that has sent me ( the LIVING WORD ) draws him not the written word as the letter is a killer....As my words are spirit and life....It is the spirit that quickens: The flesh profites nothing...The Words that i speak unto you are Spirit and Life....Living words the seeds of a living being a heavenly being....My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you...(By his living words which are his good seeds)...As Peter is saying being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth for ever....Living words not written words....The difference is like day and night...You are walking in the night when ya think that the bible the written word can save you...Ya gotta realize the Jews, all of Israel had the best bible ever the Torah.... But they were killing most all the Prophets and they rejected the Christ....Their high priest was telling the ppl to ask for Barabas not Jesus....Thats y the scripture is saying that the letter is a killer that old covenant....The Torah was the letter a killer....The soul that sinneth shall SURELY DIE...And they all sinned...Thats y God wanted a new covenant by the blood of Jesus.... Romans 8:2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of SIN and Death...That old written covenant the law which was a killer.

......Listen to what Jesus is telling us in John 6:65....Its the 2 nd time he tells us this...NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME UNLESS IT IS GIVEN UNTO HIM OF MY FATHER ( THE LIVING WORD ) not the written word the letter a killer....If the written word cd have redeemed humanity then Jesus shed his blood in vain and the CROSS, Calvary was just foolishness...Its only by the love of God and the regeneration of the H.G. that we are redeemed....God so loved the world that he gave us his only son....We all love the kjv but its a lesser light.....Only Christ is the LIGHT OF THE WORLD.

Promises of course as in my last comment regarding Romans 8:30 are assured with God's status as beyond time as He created that along with all other things. His promises are "yea and amen" ( 2 Cor. 1:20).

This question could be handled on a case by case basis. Clearly; if we are to look at Micah 5:2-4 we see the birthplace of the Messiah and we know it was fulfilled on His first coming. There are others such as Revelation 19 in Armageddon which clearly hasn't happened yet.

Most prophecies; however have at least a dual fulfillment or there are near and far implications in the same passage. Such is the case when Christ read from the scroll from Isaiah 61 he stopped after verse 1. Verse 2 talks about the vengeance of God which is tied into His second coming. Therefore many of His own people didn't recognize who He was because they were looking at prophecies of His Messianic Millennial reign rather than the purpose of atonement and death before the Resurrection into glory.

This "near and far" application is one complexity; another is what applies only to covenental promises for the nation of Israel; what applies to the church alone and what has some dual application. Galatians 3:28 shows how Jew and Gentile are incorporated into the church; and verses such as Galatians 3:7 show how not all Israel are true Israel but only the remnant believers. The church basically IS the true Israel as are the subset of Abraham's seed that are believers.

I find the best rule is to see what scriptures are mentioned in Acts in particular as applying to the church in the deepest sense of the meaning. That is the only way to understand the deepest or final meaning to certain prophecies. What we can't do is make the error of making all prophecy figurative that doesn't fit into our doctrinal picture; or dismissing the covenants that were promised to Israel. That is a subject perhaps for another commentary.

Perhaps an individual application would be from Romans 8:30. It isn't a prophecy as traditionally labeled; but the time frame of predestination guarantees that those who are saved will eventually be glorified after sanctification. All prophecy shows God's certain plans.

How to produce fruit part 2: Colaborers in Christ

The great commission in Matthew 28 comes after others discussing how we should pray more laborers are sent into the harvest. ( Matt. 9:38; Luke 10:2). It also follows the "test run" of the seventy sent out to proclaim the Good News ( Luke 10:1).

Jesus; of course was the "first of the firstfruits" ( 1 Cor. 15:23). He came to suffer as we did; but without sin and now sits at the right hand of God ever to intercede for us. ( Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25).

The fact that He was a man of sorrows as Isaiah predicted; and the life of the Apostles wasn't exactly a cakewalk serves as a reality check to the remnant who remains steadfast today in the Word. Jesus spent much time weeding people out; and it seems often that His own disciples were often more of a hindrance than anything else. Still; there is much to learn when we discover the principle of two or more together and how the Lord is present with us ( Matthew 18:20).

Today; there seems to be the concept of individual membership into the Body of Christ rather than how we are to function as a corporate entity. I have yet to see how various giftings can edify a church; the best I've seen is someone gifted in teaching as a Pastor; or an individual here or there that has occasionally said something profound in terms of a Word of wisdom or knowledge. At many of today's Pentacostal churches you see a heavy emphasis on tongues with little evident in terms of discernment; for instance.

Quite frankly; apart from a lack of sacrificial love found in many fellowships or perhaps contributing to it is the fact that where people feel most comfortable is relaxing at home; with their own circle of family or friends or for some singles just isolating themselves. Fact is; if we don't enjoy fellowshipping together it becomes a ritual which we perform for the minimum amount of time; with a minimum of effort and worst of all with little of our heart and soul invested.

Page 1.

Thank you bro Giannis for your lengthy response. If I might address some of your points.

a. John 3:3-6. "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". If my Gk Lexicon is correct, the rendering is that 'a man is born out of/out from water and out of/out from the Spirit' ('ek'). In both references to the water & the Spirit, we see that one has to make a new appearance: the first which represents the physical birth (since this whole discussion with Nicodemus is about these two births), & the second, the spiritual birth. In neither of these births, the babe has any control or power. In the physical, the natural laws of human birth must take place, as also in the spiritual, the natural working of the Holy Spirit must take place to produce a new child/creation.

And there must be evidence of that work; Nicodemus could only understand it in the natural sphere, but in the spiritual sphere, the Spirit's Presence & Working must be seen, or else it is false. Therefore, I can understand the Spirit working through the Gospel preached by man & by the Word that is read, to minister to an unbeliever, but when a person turns to Christ & is born again, the Holy Spirit must indwell him & reside permanently ("Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his", Romans 8:9) - a very telling verse, leaving no room for misunderstanding. I could never perceive that the one who is in Christ can ever be one without the Holy Spirit residing within - it simply goes against the reason & working of the Spirit. So when you write, "So the Spirit works in the heart of a born again person, although He may not dwell in them", this is something that I simply cannot understand in light of the Scriptures, because re-birth is always from an inward dwelling, not an outward influence. See Page 2.

Hi Ronald.

Travels is over for the week!

It's always tough for me to keep up because all my replies and posts are off my cellphone.

I was looking at how the scripture would look using the Greek as you said. "Oudeis , no one"



Here it goes from verses 2-4.

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

And no one in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.



You see it doesn't change nothing using the Greek word

"Oudeis" translated no one.

And I agree John was in the spirit, but John saw, and was shown visions all throughout Revelation.

And he sought the redeemer which had to be a man in particular locations and one was Heaven.

This took place around the throne!

Revelation 4:1-2. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

John describes what he saw and what he heard in a particular place.

I believe that we shall also reign on earth and that shouldn't void our access to Heaven.

Jesus is able to freely go to and from and I believe we will also because in this regard we shall be like him. 1 John 3:2.

Also see Romans 8:16-21.

We're joint heirs with Christ!!

God bless.

John 14:1"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

Don't be trouble by what people say Trust in The Lord Jesus Christ. anything any man says to you. You need to Gurd your heart with all diligent for out of it the issues of life arise so Check by the scriptures at all times.

Please understanding this Satan main agender is to attack your faith and he will use all means Just to get to you, but you need to go before the Lord and pray against unbelief and renounce its by proclaiming. The Scripters cannot be broken.

Pray and Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ He Knows all you need is to trust in the Lord

For its written in ROMANS 8:35-37.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written,

For thy sake we are killed all the day long;

we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Hi Giannis.

Part 1

In part 1 you gave me Luke 1:17 and stated, "This means that another part of John's ministry was to teach Hebrews to clean their heart by preaching them to obey God's commandments. I would have to disagree with you on that.

No one could keep the law therefore it couldn't make you clean. Acts 15:5-10. Romans 8:3. Galatians 3:10-14.

You also referred me to Luke 3:7-18. Notice vs 9) "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. They couldn't bare fruit! Israel was a degenerate vine.

Jeremiah 2:20-21. Matthew 21:42-44. In contrast to that Jesus is the genuine vine. John 15:1-2.

John was preparing the way for someone to do what the Law couldn't do. and that's Christ.

John's baptism was to turn the Jews "The lost sheep of Israel" to Christ and yet he says there comes one who will give a baptism that exceeds his that brings us to Jesus.

Now John says he must decrease, and Jesus must Increase. Now we have the beginning of Jesus ministry in which he came for the lost sheep of Israel. Due to blindness, they denied there king so as Paul says salvation has come to the Gentiles. That brings us to Pentecost. Here's a predominantly mostly if not all Jewish beginning of the Church. Here is where baptism of the Holyspirit begins and this is where the Spirit of God baptize Jews and Gentiles into the body of Christ and water baptism is a ritual way for you to display what the Spirit of God has already done once you TRULY believed.

So, the obedience is for you to show by display who and what you believe in. It's the faith of Christ that initiates your belief which leads to Salvation.

See part 2.

Concluding thoughts on assurance of salvation

Basic points: Scripture makes it clear that we as believers are to "suffer for His name's sake" ( Philippians 1:29). We are given a new heart with our stony heart removed ( Ezekiel 36:26). We are to love the brethren ( 1 John 3:14) if we have "passed from death to life." We also love our enemies ( Matt. 5:44) and we should read the entire passage to meditate on how we pray for them who despitefully use you"; etc. We are aliens ( 1 Peter 2:11-12; see also 1 Chron. 29:15) and not of this world. We are truly born again and seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6) and our treasure is now in heaven as well ( Matt. 6:20-21). We understand that we were saved as hopeless sinners and therefore serve as "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10). We still have peace that passes understanding (Phillipians 4:7); and is not of this world ( John 14:27).

With all this we have an understanding of how we have been called and chosen and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:29).

We learn to love His ways and His Word; trusting God for the difficult and hard scriptures and sayings as well. A true believer is being transformed by the renewing of His mind ( Romans 12:2) and is concerned about the needs of others; particularly within the house of God. Hebrews 13 as well as Paul's example ( 2 Cor. 11:28) despite the persecutions he endured. We desire to grow and also must believe He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ( Heb. 11:6). That means we also desire to win the prize of the high calling (Phillipians 3:14). Therefore those in Christ should be careful not to lose their reward ( Rev. 3:11).

All this being said; there are examples of those who think they are saved but are not; as well as those who make it into heaven but suffer loss. Evidence of fruit can be seen in time; and each of us are responsible to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Seek and ye shall find ( Matt 7:7-8

Assurance of salvation: Evidences of life within

Luke 14:31 gives us the hypothetical situation when we have 10000 men about to go to war with 20000. We have to decide whether to fight or seek a peace agreement. Given the very real odds against the armies of Israel; as well as God purposely reducing the size so that only His victory can be acknowledged (such as in Judges 7:2) we should carefully assess whether we are positioned to enter into spiritual warfare (such as Ephesians 6 describes).

Few would argue the importance of love as a virtue of prime importance being that God IS love ( 1 John 4:8). It is to be sought as 1 Corinthians 13:1 demonstrate how other giftings are subordinate to love and of course John 15:13 shows there is no greater love than laying down our life for our friends as demonsrated by our Lord and Savior Himself. I have discussed repentance in earlier posts on this subject. I thought it prudent to point out that we need to go beyond just acknowledgement of what scripture states is sin to the point where there is a revulsion and hatred within. After all; His Spirit is said to testify with our spirit ( Romans 8:16) that we are indeed His children. This sort of balances things out; we are to have Agape love where we love our enemies; also we are to truly hate sin whether it is within us; others or the whole world system. This encompasses the world; the flesh and the Devil. There seems to be a rather laccadasical approach when it comes to the enemy of our souls. Christ makes it perfectly clear as to his character but sadly when the seriousness of the matter of his deadly destructive rampage comes up almost always I seem to get a response that it is really no big deal. That is something frankly I find hard to swallow; given that God Himself will allow Satan to have authority over the whole world so that everyone who isn't written in the Book of Life will worship Antichrist and Satan by default. ( Rev. 13:8). That is coming soon.

-God Created us to have fellowship with Him. This is found in

Genesiss 3:8-And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

God expected to find them, but they were hiding - meaning this followship happened regularly but not anymore for sins has separated friends. Amos 3:3

-Due to the sins committed in Genessi 3:6

6, And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat

-Man died spiritually and at the end he also died physical form the world remembers the wages of sins is death and That followership which we once had with God in the beginning was repaired at the cross by Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God. in John 3:16

Its written in John 14:17

17,even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Now you see, from here unless you repent of your sins at the cross and accept Jesus Christ in your heart then Jesus Christ who is the way the truth and life will connect you to the father. the best term here is if you abide in Him.HE will abide in you the man.

as it is written in JOHN 14:23

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

as we have seen if we love Jesus Christ then we will obey and keep his words and in keeping them the father will love us The trinity will come and followship with us.

Now note this alot of people are still searching for purpose in life but those who have given their lives to Jesus Christ the son of the living God have a purpose in life which is to followship with GOD.

ROMANS 8:14

Concluding thoughts on introduction to assurance of salvation.

I would appreciate for those few that regularly respond to my posts to keep these discussions in prayer. I suppose I could put a separate prayer request up; but you guys know who I am talking about here. It would be good for this to permeate to a larger audience. I will; of course ask for prayer on that happening not for my own ego but because there are many who need to have a healthy assurance of salvation; and others who need to wrestle it out; as it were like Jacob with the Angel of God. How bad to we want the blessing; or how bad do we want Jesus? This is not wrong to pursue; as the persistent widow parable states. Sadly (speaking for myself) I spend much of my time asking for things that aren't His will and that is usually due to my heart condition rather than any obvious worldly desire as I wouldn't want to do something that stupid asking for a rebuke. I don't think I'm alone here; I sense that many have hearts that have turned cold and distant so that the concept of a loving God seems like an ecclesiastical topic on an esoteric plane rather than a daily living reality. Ugh; I suppose I'm worse off than I want to admit so I'll take any prayer I can get.

Living out what is truly our living Hope should be done with love; joy; peace; longsuffering and the like. I feel at this juncture that I should ask you guys to pray that my heart is in the same place with my mind; which I feel has been trained to function at some proficiency in meting out the Word as a Berean and in a balanced manner. I want to warn about emotions and things other than the Word and Spirit ( Romans 8:16) giving us assurance. Those who know me here are aware somewhat of my personal struggles living with unsaved parents at present; and scars from a divorce years ago. Isaiah 53:5 is something I feel I must live out more effectively.

Anyway; as I said I hope this generates further discussion on an important topic.

Assurance of salvation

This being the Sunday where we honor Jesus' Resurrection; I don't want to delve too deeply into a new subject of controversy to stimulate discussion. I am planning; Lord willing to tackle the topic of "once saved; always saved" in terms of what (in the correct sense) that means; and what it doesn't mean. Ephesians 2:6-7 seems to indicate that we are in some sense "already raised" with Him; and glorification seems to be the final result of a saved individual after glorification according to Romans 8:30. That also; BTW matches up with John 3:16 with an ongoing (as the Greek indicates) process; rather than someone who believes in a mere confession never dying. These verses fit into the first concept that those who are called and chosen have what we may call undue "favor" on their lives; preserved on this earth until in time and space a verbal confession and change of heart occurs ( Romans 10:9). Also it is a continuing process of sanctification; resulting in good fruit being produced. I will fill in more scripture later on based on that topic.

A basic stumbling block is those who say that any sin can make us disqualified to enter heaven. 1 John 1:10 should be a clear rebuttal of that; and Paul's letters to the Corinthians who clearly were manifesting "carnal" behavior as well as other warnings about losing reward and getting into heaven as though through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15) show that there is a more complex theology involving not just the saved and lost but those who are at various levels in their walk. It appears; however that those who are exposed to any truth are held accountable and judged in a harsher manner ( Matt. 11:21 for example).

There are many sections of scripture such as large portions of Hebrews which are very challenging; my Dake's Bible has many hundreds of verses that make it seem we can lose our salvation; some of which are more easily refuted than others.

DEUTERONOMY 6:4.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

There's only one God.

John 10:30.

John 14:7-9.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, PHILIP? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

1 Corinthians 15:28.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

This is after the Millennium reign, Then he will establish the eternal reign.

Then he will return to his place where he was in the beginning,

( back to the God head)

"That God may be all in all"

Who raised Christ from the dead?

John 10:17-18.

Romans 8:11.

Act 13:30.

Answer; The triune God. "Elohm".

If Jesus is the body of the Father but yet a separate God as one claims. That contradicts what is written in scripture.

Ephesians 4:4-6.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

We're servants and worshipers of that one God. Now and for ever.

God will share his glory with no man.

Isaiah 42:8.

Jimbob:

The written word; through BELIEF of those written words, BECOMES the LIVING WORD:

The WORD of God is the SEED

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: the SEED is the WORD of GOD.

John 1:1 In the beginning was THE WORD (the seed), and THE WORD (the seed) was with God, and THE WORD (the seed) was God.

The WRITTEN words are just a WITNESS, of the LIVING WORD.

John 1:14 And THE WORD was made flesh .....

Romans 8:3 God (the Word, the SEED) sending his own son (the WORD, the SEED) as SINFUL FLESH ....

ALL FLESH (the WORD, THE SEED became flesh) died on the Cross with CHRIST: ALL FLESH arose a NEW CREATION (the WORD, the SEED)

Psalms 12:6 The WORDS (YOU, all men; the new creation, by the WORKS of the resurrection) are pure (living) WORDS: as silver TRIED in the furnace of earth (you were first made of dust), purified seven times (this is speaking of the living WORD (YOU) not the written WORD (the letters of the law).

The WRITTEN WORD has to become the LIVING WORD.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible SEED (sinful flesh), but incorruptible, by the (living WORD, made known by the written) WORD OF GOD, with liveth and abideth forever.

Isaiah 59:21 As for me (God the WORD, the SEED), this is my covenant with them (the new creation in Christ, by his resurrection), My spirit that I have put upon THEE (CHRIST), and my (living) WORDS that I have put in thy (Christ's) mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed (the WORD), nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED (the WORD) forever.

God bless you.

Hey Jimbob,

I know many see these verses as you, but if I may just give another understanding of John 14:1-6, we have had discussions and I think we respect each other, and both love the word and the truth. This was just before Jesus was going to be crucified and He said, "I go and prepare a place for you". In verse 2 He said in my Father's house are many mansions.

The Greek word translated mansion is #3438 monai, meaning; an abiding dwelling place and this word is only used twice here and in John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Abode is the Greek word monia.

When Adam sinned God could not dwell in man, Jesus was on His way to shed His blood and undo what the first Adam did so that God could again through the Holy Spirit dwell in man. John 14:17 Romans 8:11 1 John 4:15. In these verses, we can see the place prepared for us by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

I understand you look to be taken to heaven and I am just putting something out there that you may study. Jesus said I will come again, He was on earth when He said I will come again.

God bless,

RLW

Psalm 91 Verse 11 of this Psalm was quoted in Matthew 4:6; which is indicative of the promises which the Son of God no doubt had being part of the eternal Godhead with the angels He created for eternal worship in heavenly places.

Looking at the preceding verses; we see promises for those who are God's children to be hidden (compare with Colossians 3:3); and we shouldn't ignore the following statement in verse 2 about those who TRUST God. We also see promises which apply in general to God's covenant people such as Deuteronomy 7:15; and fulfilled by Christ in verses such as Isaiah 53:5. Ultimately; however these promises will be fulfilled in the Millennial Kingdom as may be indicated in verse 7; and in the Tribulation for those dweiling in heaven as indicated from verse 9.

Luke 10:19 shows how Christ fulfills certain promises in freedom from Satan's grip which is similar to what it states in Psalm 91:13.

The remainder of the Psalm could indicate Christ's reward as well as our own during the Millennial period as well. There will also be natural life expectancies (see Isaiah 65:22) that are vastly extended at that time.

As we look at things today; of course we still live with all of creation groaning as it were; such as indicated in Romans 8:22. Satan himself will get his due reward; ending once and for all his usurper role as a pseudo ruler; who ultimately fulfills God's prophetic plan; as it did when he entered Judas Iscariot so that all things could be fulfilled and Christ would die for our atonement ( Heb. 9:28; also read Isaiah 53 in its entirety). We are all in perishable bodies for a brief time; but we certainly can find ways to shorten our lives due to sin adding to our miseries. For now; pestilences and other things can be held back or mitigated; but that will not be helpful during the Tribulation. At that time the 144,000 will be supernaturally protected before God brings judgments upon the earth. May we live soberly in the fear of God