Romans
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It's great to see you back. I hope you had a wonderful vacation. And yes, I agree with what you're saying. There is so much packed into that one verse ( 2 Corinthians 13:5).
Knowing that faith literally means persuasion, if I am to examine myself, the question I must answer is whose persuasion am I under? Do I have Christ (His Spirit) in me? If so, I belong to Him. And Paul says in Romans 8:14 that those who belong to Christ are being led by the Spirit of Christ. Factual statement!
My understanding is that in the early church, if there was a test given or an examination as to whether somebody is saved or not, there is only one criteria. Examine yourselves and test yourselves, whether Christ is in you, literally His Spirit.
The very next verse is interesting. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:6, "But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."
In fact, they are the proof that Christ was in Paul, because Christ spoke through him to them. They got saved and were growing in Christ through Paul's ministry.
So we need to examine ourselves. Whose persuasion are we under? Are we we being persuaded by Christ in us? If so, would His Spirit in us persuade us to walk away? Or are we under a different persuasion?
Again, it is great to see you back. May the Lord continue to bless you and your family abundantly in Christ Jesus!
This I believe was the position & concern of each of the NT writers, not just in calling out evident sin in the Church, but for each one to examine themselves whether they were even in the Faith. In some cases this was clear (as in 1 John 2:18,19), and in others such as Hebrews 3:12-14: "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end", a little unclear. The message here was for each one to encourage & counsel those being led astray by sin or deception, that they might turn back to holy living & not face the Lord's Discipline. But if they persisted, not holding their "confidence stedfast unto the end", it only showed that "they were not all of us", only displaying a show of godliness & religious experience, but inwardly knowing their deceitfulness & hypocrisy.
The Word is abundantly clear that the believer could never acquire or sustain his salvation by his efforts, rather, by the working of the Holy Spirit indwelling him ( Titus 3:4-7; Romans 8:9; Galatians 5:24,25). Unfortunately, alongwith the oft preached Gospel of salvation, i.e. 'from God & sustained by man', comes the rarely heard messages of 'life & power given to believers to know, to pursue & enjoy, which comes from the indwelling Spirit'.
It was nice to read your literal renderings of the verses you shared.
(Part 4):
We also know from Scripture that no one can keep himself saved. John teaches, in 1 John 5:18 (as recorded in the oldest Greek manuscripts), "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God is keeping him and the evil one does not touch him."
John also states in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them; and they follow me. And I give to them eternal life; and they will never perish forever and not anyone will seize them from out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them from out of the hand of my Father."
Jude states in his doxology in verse 24, "But to the one being able to keep you without stumbling and to set you before His glory blameless in exultation."
Paul in his writings emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit in Ephesians 1:13-14: "In whom also after having heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, after having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance, for redemption of the possession, for the praise of His glory."
He states again in Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Probably one of the most powerful Scriptures of God's keeping power is Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor any thing which has come, nor things coming, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
The only way a person can be saved is by a spiritual birth from God; and the only way a person can keep his salvation is through the keeping power of God.
(Part 2):
In the early Church, the requirement for salvation was the presence of God's Spirit dwelling within a person. Paul instructed, in Romans 8:9, "Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this one is not of Him." In Romans 8:14, he wrote, "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."
And again, in Romans 8:16, he instructs that "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God." Also, in 2 Corinthians 13:5, Paul challenged the church at Corinth: "Examine yourselves, if you are in the faith; prove your own selves, or do you not know your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you, except you are reprobates?"
John, writing in 1 John 3:24 supported this same understanding: "And in this we know that He abides in us, from the Spirit whom He has given to us." He repeats this same truth, although worded somewhat differently, in 1 John 4:13, "In this we know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He has given to us of His Spirit."
From the preceding scriptures, we see that salvation happens only when God's Spirit enters and remains in a person's spirit, thereby causing spiritual birth. Nothing in the Bible teaches that salvation is accomplished by the repetition of the Sinner's Prayer or through the performance of any other kind of human formula.
In addition to teaching that God is the sole source of salvation, the Bible also teaches that every saved person is kept by the power of God. Peter writes, in 1 Peter 1:5, that believers are, "The ones who are being kept in the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
...... Romans 8: 38 ...For i am persuaded that nothin can separate us from the love of God...Not life nor death nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come nor heights nor depth nor any creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God....But we must remain a good soldier and endure to the end...Even tho satan is gonna try very hard with his Tares to make us fallaway...As jesus said my father that gave them me is Greater then all and no man can pluck them out of my Fathers hands....Any way Adam this is my slant on falling away....Hope it helps ya a bit...Gbu Adam
Romans 5:5
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."
Romans 5:8
" And God commanded HIs love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
1 John 4:16
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God; and God in him."
1 John 3:1
"Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:"
Romans 8:38
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height , nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Thinking on the love of God this morning. So, so good to know that His love is unfailing, eternal, freely poured into us by the Holy Spirit, and allows us to dwell in God and God to dwell in us.
Even in hardships and sufferings, God's love never fails. Even when enemies, mortal or spiritual war against us, His love never departs from us. Even when we are faithless, His love draws us back to faith. Even when we are discouraged and our hope wanes, His love breaks through these and uplifts us and sustains us.
There is so much to be thankful to God for, but His love stands out as so precious to me. Knowing that, before the foundation of the world, God made an everlasting covenant between the Persons of the Godhead to save mankind from sin as essential to His plan to create the universe and all creatures, mortal and physical. And this covenant was made out of the love that defines God so well. He loved us even before He made Adam and Eve. The elect of God was in mind when He created all things. In love, he determined to create a people for Himself to spend eternity with Himself to the praise of His glory which benefits us to the maximum degree.
How precious is our election!
Matthew 7:13-23.
Here are some interesting points highlighted in this discourse;
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many WONDERFUL WORKS? (The wonderful works is not disputed.) There was a outward show of holliness.
And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (CHRIST WILL PROFESS TO THEM HE (NEVER) KNEW THEM! They were NEVER connected to the vine. He NEVER knew them!!
Our outward act needs to generate from within!
This is a circumcised heart Paul speaks of in Romans 2:29. This is not done by man it is done by conversion!
It's what the the Jews couldn't do by self-effort by following command.
This is also what Jesus is telling the scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 23:25-26; Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
This is baptism by the holy spirit. We are quickened by the spirit! Christ IN us!
Romans 8:11-14. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
FOR AS MANY AS ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, they are the sons of God.
It IS NOT HOW BUSY WE ARE!
IT IS HOW BUSY CHRIST IS IN US, IS THAT WHAT MAKES US SPIRITUAL.
Also, Philippians 1:6.
And if Christ is performing in you, you will have the fruit of the spirit present NOT the works of the flesh!
God bless.
We can count on the goodness of God. We can count on the fact that He will always work all things out according to His perfect and good will for our good, whether in this life or the life to come. ( Romans 8:28) We can count on God giving us good things when we ask in prayer ( Matt. 7:11)
In detecting a counterfeit; we are often told that experts rely on their experience seeing the genuine in order to detect that which appears at first glance to be the same but on further investigation has some telltale sign of fraud. I would add to that statement in saying that we should learn to recognize all the appearances of truth and how the enemy uses such things to appeal to the flesh in order to draw us in through whatever toxin he chooses to conceal in the punch; so to speak.
In studying this subject; one can't overlook the key concept of TRUST in God as being the foundation of our walk. The Lord giveth; and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the Lord ( Job 1:21). In studying Job we see that he started his trial well; praising the Lord even when his wife told him to "curse God and die" ( Job 2:9). This was after the blitzkrieg of tragedies that crashed forth; and after his own personal afflictions. We need to keep in mind that it appears he was entirely unaware that Satan was behind the calamaties themselves and all that went on behind the scenes in the councils of God and the angelic/demonic realm.
We are told not to complain or grumble; but nonetheless pleading our cause wasn't even foreign to Christ when He cried greatly for the cup "if possible" to be removed; nonetheless God's will to be done ( Luke 22:42). It is hard to believe in our greatest trials and suffering that they pale in comparison to the "exceeding joy" to come ( Romans 8:18). When we see Paul's struggle, though we are well aware of the extraordinary amount of suffering which God promised he would endure for His nane's sake at the inception of his ministry ( Acts 9:16). Some of this; no doubt may have been due to his earlier persecutions to set an example as well as to chastise him; not as final judgment but as in the case of David caught in adultery; residual damage in this life for earlier sins.
Our childlike faith should never be calloused by the weight of the world. That being said; there is no escaping the fact that we are in mortal bodies which are perishing daily such as 2 Corinthians 4:16 indicates. We have treasure in earthen vessels; though ( 2 Cor. 4:7). There is a healthy abandon which should accompany a mature faith; these aren't needing to be mutually exclusive states of mind and practice. We see those in the parable of the seeds and the sower who have immediate joy but no root in themselves ( Luke 8:13). We also have warnings to the Ephesian church in Revelation about leaving their first love ( Rev. 2:4).
The difference in these two verses is those who have an emotional reaction to the Gospel not rooted in faith; and in the second case those who had a true love in Christ and followed all the right doctrines but didn't continue to have love of Christ as their prime motivation. If we love Him we obey Him ( 1 John 5:2; John 14:21). Love of proper doctrine; law and other protocols should be the offshoot of that love but it must keep a root in a living; active faith else it slips into a religious set of moral dogmas that seeks to either squelch the flesh or brings an attitude of pride and self righteousness to the ecclesiastical leadership that leads to a dead religious set of rituals. Eventually; of course that leads to the tendancy of additional rituals in a Pharisaical manner if we are not careful.
Avoiding dead fellowship is no excuse for a permanant retreat from fellowship; however. Especially as we see the day of His return drawing near we are told NOT to forsake the assembly of one another ( Heb. 10:25). Our identities should be seen as adopted sons and daughters and being part of that heavenly assembly ( Heb. 12:1). There is a knowledge that the earth and heaven must be remade; all creation is groaning and will be until that Day comes ( Romans 8:22). Satan's accusations show us earth is not our home.
We see in the inception of the Psalm in the first 4 verses characteristics of those which are of a "broken and contrite" spirit as Psalm 51 also describes. There is a "poor and needy" attitude (verse 2) and an attitude of submission as a servant (see verses 2 and 4). Finally; we see the characteristic of mercy in verse 3 as there apparently is a daily petition of crying to God.
The concept of trust in verse 2 is something that should be pondered more frequently as our attitude there affects how confident we are to God being faithful to meet our needs as well as working all things to the good for those who love Him (see Romans 8:28).
These characteristics allow us to converse and plead with God to attend to our requests (verse 6) and to answer in the day of trouble (verse 7). This is contrasted with such verses as Micah 3:4 and others which show the Lord will not hear the cry of the wicked in the day of their calamity because they are trying to avoid the consequences of their sins and sadly are too late for His saving Grace. Therefore; we must heed to not blowing God off; thinking that His patience will endure until we decide we are ready to "accept" Him. Salvation involves a relationship on HIS TERMS and according to His sovereign will and plans; of which we only can see a glimpse. These stipulations also are predicated on worshipping the true God (verse 8) and not the idols that other nations extol at their own peril ( Judges 16:29). In that story Sampson was shown in the end to know the Lord but reminds us of 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 of those who suffer loss of reward due to sinful living. The wicked there; nonetheless died in the midst of idol worship which should be a strong warning against any false religions today.
I know that those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses have their erroneous understanding of Colossians 1:15, "Who (i.e. Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature". The Greek word for 'firstborn' is 'prototokos' and when written of Jesus, it applies to His preeminence & highest rank of all creation, though He Himself was never created, because He was "begotten of the Father" ( John 1:14). Whereas the JW reads Colossians 1:15 as, "the first created of every creature"; removing the 'prototokos' & replacing it with 'protokitses'. This error then substantiates their belief that Jesus was merely a created Being from God, thereby nullifying His Divinity.
And we see this word, 'firstborn' appearing elsewhere in the New Testament, when referring to Jesus:
Romans 8:29: "firstborn among many brethren", referring to Jesus' preeminence as the 'elder Brother' of His many brethren, the Church. And it also speaks of Jesus' as being wholly Divine yet Him merging with humanity, thus the incarnate God becoming the 'first' in line of this new creation: i.e. we who are now His brothers & sisters have been given His Spirit to indwell us, making us a new creation in Christ Jesus (God's Spirit now residing in man)": 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Colossians 1:18: "firstborn from the dead". This means that Jesus was the first to rise from the dead with a resurrection Body & it will be when our bodies will be resurrected as His was - but He was our Forerunner in the resurrection. Though Lazarus & the many saints arose from the grave, they weren't given their new glorified bodies.
I hope this little extra study helps you Errol.
The OLD is a SHADOW of the NEW.
The 12 tribes of the old had a priesthood out of the tribe of Levi.
The old was done away with.
The new has a priesthood out of the house of Judah.
At present, in this generation, or age, Christ is ONLY calling out the PRIESTHOOD, not everyone will be in this priesthood in THIS GENERATION, or age.
When all the priests; the Sons of God, have been gathered, Christ will resurrect ALL the dead back to their bodies of FLESH, and they will be JUDGED and RULED by the Sons of God.
It will be a shadow of the old.
Joshua 9:21 And the princes (the sons of God) said ... Let them LIVE, but let them be HEWERS of WOOD and DRAWERS of WATER unto all the congregation (sons of God) ...
But THIS TIME the children WILL NOT take up the ways of the Canaanites, BUT will cause the nations to take up the WAY OF GOD.
Zechariah 14:21 Yea, every pot (man is the pot and Christ the potter) in (NEW) Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of host; and they (those resurrected to flesh) that sacrifice and come and TAKE OF THEM, (the new creation, now the likeness of Christ), and seethe therein (THE WORD): and in that day there shall NO MORE CANAANITES in the house of the LORD of host.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH for the manifestations of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF shall BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (sons of God) shall come upon Mount Zion to JUDGE the Mount of Esau, and the KINGDOM shall be the LORDS.
God Bless YOU!
Psalms 17:15 As for ME (Christ), I will behold thy (the Father and God of Christ) face: I (Christ) will be satisfied, when I (Christ) awake (am resurrected, by the Father's SPIRIT), with THY (the Father's) likeness.
Romans 6:5 For if were be planted TOGETHER (you and Christ) in the likeness of his (Christ) DEATH; we shall also be the LIKENESS of HIS RESURRECTION.
Genesis 5:1 In that DAY (the day of the LORD; ALL MEN died with Christ and all MEN were resurrected with Christ) that God created man ( BY the resurrection), in the LIKENESS of GOD created he them.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth THY (the Father of ALL ( Ephesians 4:6) SPIRIT, THEY (all men) are CREATED; thou renewest the face of the earth.
Ezekiel 1:5 And out if the MIDST thereof (Christ) there came forth four LIVING CREATIONS, And this was their appearance, they (the new creation) had the appearance of A MAN (Christ).
Ezekiel 10:10 And as for the for their appearances (the LIVING CREATIONS), they four (the new creation) had ONE LIKENESS, as a WHEEL (Christ) in the MIDST of a WHEEL (Christ).
Colossians 1:27 ..this MYSTERY (of his resurrection) ... CHRIST IN YOU ..
Romans 8:28 For whom he (the Father of ALL) did foreknow, He (the Father) did predistinate (by the resurrection of Christ) to be conformed to the IMAGE (God) of his son, that he (Christ) might be the FIRSTBORN among many (cloned by his resurrection) BRETHREN.
Psalms 82:6 For I (the Father) have said, YE (my new creation, by your brother's resurrection) ARE GODS, the children of the most high.
John 10:35 If he (our Father, the WORD) called them (the new creation, by resurrection) GODS, unto WHOM the word of GOD CAME ( Hebrews 9:28), the scripture CANNOT be BROKEN.
Luke 20:36 Neither can THEY (the new creation) DIED ANYMORE (you died with Christ on the cross): for they are EQUAL to the ANGELS ( Isaiah 63:9...and the ANGEL of HIS (Christ in YOU) PRESENCE SAVED THEM.
Do YOU BELIEVE God's WORD?
Thanks Jimbob. Briefly, referring to your points in these two pages.
a. Acts 2:17-20. If we note from verse 8, the peoples of surrounding nations heard these men speak in their languages, which they had not learned. Then Peter gave them his message: 'what you're hearing is God pouring out His Spirit on men, to which Joel spoke about"in the last days, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh". This was the beginning of the Last Days & it has been ever since Jesus left this Earth & sent out His promised Spirit. And "they shall prophesy" as well. But the culmination of these Last Days is what you read in verses 19 & 20. And yes, the Comforter was promised to abide with us (the blood-bought Church) forever. But what happens when the Church is no longer here - and that "forever" day has arrived?
b. Ephesians 1:13 & Revelation 7:3,4 are not the same sealing, by virtue of that act & what is imparted. In the former, it is clearly the Holy Spirit Who seals the believer "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory (v14)". He marks His Own, He is the "earnest of our inheritance" (Gk. arrabon = an advance part-payment guaranteeing our security), "until the redemption of the purchased possession" (the Holy Spirit remains in us & secures the believer until the redemptive work at the Cross is fully realized, i.e. Christ indeed fully paid the ransom for our redemption - but completed redemption is only realized until the body is returned back to our Redeemer: Romans 8:22,23).
In the Revelation 7:3,4 account, we are not told what the seal is & how it's applied; at least it seems to be a forehead mark (the Lord's imprint, unlike the false Christ's signature). If one should read this mark to be the Holy Spirit on their foreheads or His indwelling that results in an outward marking, then I have no other comment. All I can glean is that the world is now devoid of the Spirit's Presence & Work.
Thanks for responding and sorry for such a delay on my response back. I normally can't engage until the weekend due to my work schedule.
Here's my view on this.
We are the light of the world, (The oil filled Lamps.)
In 1 Thessalonians 5:3-5. we see this light mentioned in the believers in connection with the Day of the Lord. (As already established; "Not to be mistaken for the tribulation! but what is interesting is "If" the Holyspirit is taken out of the way/Removed and no longer restraining, then the children of light would become as those who sleep in the night!
He that comforts us, enlighten us and keeps us is no longer doing it and by nature we love Darkness. John 3:19.
Jesus says he will never leave us comfortless. John 14:16-20.
John 15:19. Because of this verse we should see it is not a worldly entity that desires or even capable of restraining evil.
We have three enemies that pushes back against Holiness, Our flesh, the world and the prince of the two, "Satan"
We have one source that empowers, but yet "PERMITS" That's the Holyspirit. We see the involvement and power of the Holyspirit shepherding his Church against these three enemies.
Romans 8:9-15. (The flesh)
1 John 4:4. (Satan)
John 14:16-20. (The World.).
2 Thessalonians 2:1-7. The subject here is the Thessalonians thought the day of the Lord was at hand! Paul says that day shall not come, except there come a apostasy first, and that man of sin be revealed. Paul goes on to say; Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
He is refering to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. He is reminding them.
By the context of 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians, they knew the order of events Paul was telling them. 1st The rapture. 2nd The man of sin revealed. 3rd the day of the Lord. (Wherefore comfort one another with these words.)
The Church is removed and the Holyspirit operates as it did in the Old Testament.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 parallels with Matthew 24:15.
GB.
The creation in the first chapters of Genesis is both an act at that time and a prophecy of a second creation at Christ resurrection.
God MADE man from dust, breathed life into him and man became a living BODY, with a carnal mind.
Romans 8:20 For the creature was MADE subject to vanity, NOT WILLINGLY .....
When Christ was RESURRECTED, we became a NEW CREATION.
In Adam the LIFE was in the BLOOD, that life can DIE by the spilling of the BLOOD.
In Christ; LIFE is in the SPIRIT, it's IMMORTAL, spirit can't die.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy SPIRIT, they are CREATED: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Christ is also called ADAM.
1 Corinthians 15:45 ...The first man Adam was made a living BODY; the last (man) Adam was made a quicking SPIRIT.
Genesis 5:2 Male and Female CREATED he them; and blessed them, and callled THEIR NAME ADAM (Christ), in the day they were CREATED (I am the resurrection; THE NEW CREATION, the exactness of Christ).
We are BAPTISED in HIS NAME, the new creation.
Jeremiah 7:11 In MY HOUSE, which is called by MY NAME ....
Hebrews 3: Christ as a son over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose HOUSE WE ARE ....
Ephesians .....ONE BODY ......ONE SPIRIT ......
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE GOD .... Father of ALL ....above ALL .....through ALL ....and IN YOU ALL .....
God Bless YOU!
This is exactly what the OLD covenant was; a LIST, and they FAILED.
Christ did away with the OLD list if LAWS, and set up a NEW covenant, He would be THE (immortal) LIFE in the NEW CREATION, and he ''CAN OBEY ALL GOD'S WORDS''.
John 14:6 ....I am THE LIFE ....
Romans 8:2 For THE LAW (2nd covenant) of the Spirit of (immoral) LIFE in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE from THE LAW (1st covenant) of sin and DEATH (not hell).
1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in the LIGHT ...
You and I DIED on the CROSS.
Satan tells you It's still up to you to OBEY, who are you going to believe the lies of Satan or the SPIRIT of TRUTH.
John 14:6 ....I am TRUTH .....
Philippians 2:13 For it is God in you (the new creation) that worketh both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
God Bless YOU!
Revelation 12:10 ..... Now is come SALVATION, and strength, and the KINGDOM Of GOD, and the power of HIS CHRIST ...
Revelation 11:17 .... The kingdoms of this world (plural, ALL) have become the KINGDOM OF GOD (singular), and of HIS CHRIST ......
When did this HAPPEN; the day YOU walked to the front of a church and took the pastors hand, or did it HAPPEN 2000 years ago on a CROSS before you had any knowledge of the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism .....
YOU DIED and were RASIED 2000 years ago, but you weren't BURIED until you were born 2000 years later and BURIED in the TRUTH and power of his resurrection;by the LIFE that raise you 2000 years ago.
Man had no say, it's the WORK'S of God and HIS CHRIST, it is a GIFT of GOD, our INHERITANCE.
Psalms 2:8 .....and I (the Father) shall GIVE THEE the nations (ALL) for thine inheritance ....
God is only calling out the priesthood in THIS AGE (generation, so far 2000 years), the firstborne (feast of the weeks).
Romans 8:19 ....creation WAITETH for the manifestation of the SONS of GOD ...
Romans 8:21 Because creation ITSELF shall be DELIVERED ....into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.
Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Sons of GOD, in the likeness of Christ) shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau ....
Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the JUDGEMENT WRITTEN: this honour hath all his saints.
ALL will bow and confess CHRIST as LORD.
God Bless YOU!
I appreciate the ongoing discussion Jimbob we're having as very few are prepared to persevere in it. Yes, I did mention 'imminency & suddenness', but also mentioned 'readiness' ("In the NT, the command was for readiness"). We will have to leave that one, as after my revisiting those passages because of your comment, I still see that all three as adverbs are in use or implied, including, 'watchfulness'. We'll have to leave those Scriptures for other readers to examine.
Matthew 24:29-31. I read that as the Second Coming of Christ after the Great Tribulation days & that Jesus' rule upon the Earth will be with his elect living on the Earth at that time. It does not speak of those who will be instantly caught up to be with Christ (i.e. without the gathering of them together by the angels) & to be with Christ forever. Here, in the Rapture, those of the living & dead believers will be "changed" ( 1 Corinthians 15:52), i.e. physically reconstituted ("putting on incorruption") to be with Christ in the heavenlies, whereas this isn't a requirement for those 'of the elect' on the Earth who are gathered & relocated to Jerusalem (presumably).
Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of the vision that John received of all those who had laid down their lives for Christ. Not only those who came to believe in the Truth & resisted the Anti-Christ during his reign, but the multitudes since the Church's inception that have remained faithful to the Lord & willingly went to their deaths. Yes, we can suffer now (in tribulation), even as those who went before us, but this is part & parcel of following Christ ( John 16:33); including Romans 8:16-18; Philippians 1:29; 2 Thessalonians 1:4,5; 2 Timothy 2:11,12; etc (as you shared). I read this as the 'common' tribulation (trials of faith) that believers can experience, but not of the Great Tribulation (at the Day of the Lord).
Part 3
To make an end of sins.
To make an end; as put an end to/make an end to, affix a seal, to seal up, a document is rolled up and sealed with wet clay. The signet ring of the owner bears the image of his seal and is pressed into the clay. This is what was done by the Holy Spirit, 2 Cor. 1:22 Eph. 1:13 2 Tim. 2:19.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Sin reaches for things, such as safety, knowledge, peace, happiness, and pleasure. Nevertheless, behind the act of good, sin ultimately creates a confrontation between obedience and rebellion. If not in faith, it is sin.
Psalm 32:1 Matthew 1:21 Matthew 22:11-13 John 1:29 John 3:5 Acts 5:31 Romans 3:25 Romans 8:3 Hebrews 9:26 Hebrews 10:8-12 1 Corinthians 15:3 1 John 3:5-6 Revelation 16:15
The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Sin has not completely stopped yet but it is covered by the blood of Jesus and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
This passage points toward the Messiah who died because of our sins. In Jesus's death, punishment for our sins is paid for. Jesus's death we are dead to sin. Walking in the Spirit meant that we are trusting in Christ by faith to be made right before God, and not trusting in the law.
Whenever Paul speaks about walking after the flesh, it is in the context of trying to be made right before God by the law, which is equivalent to self-righteousness. I believe the prophecy is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and if we are in Jesus Christ, it is fulfilled for us. Praise God that Jesus Christ made an end of sins! As Jesus said from the cross, "It is finished!"
See Part 4
Matthew 24:15 Therefore when YOU SEE the abomination of desolation; spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the HOLY PLACE (whosoever readeth, let him understand).
You are the HOLY PLACE, the temple of GOD.
Christ was talking to those around him, so this APPLIED to them, as well as us, it was AT HAND, near to be reality.
Daniel 12:11 From the time the daily sacrifice (of animals) shall be TAKEN AWAY, and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, there shall be one thousand three hundred and thirty five days.
What is this 1,335 days? It's the changing of the COVENANTS, Christ coming as sinful flesh, and defeating
death; LIFE by Spirit, not blood.
Before the resurrection; LIFE was in the BLOOD, after the resurrecting, LIFE was from the Spirit.
Matthew 23:38 Behold your HOUSE is left unto you DESOLATE.
Man is THE HOUSE, now desolate without INHABITANT, it died on the cross.
Revelation 18:19 .....for in ONE HOUR (MAN, sinful fleshes death on the cross) is she made DESOLATE.
Revelation 17:17 ...and SHALL MAKE HER DESOLATE AND NAKED ..
Psalms 69:25 Let their habitation (house) be DESOLATE; and NONE dwell in their tents.
Isaiah 5:9 ...of a truth many houses shall be desolate ....
Are you DESOLATE; or has the Spirit of LIFE COME TO YOU?
Romans 8:2 For the LAW of the SPIRIT OF LIFE in Christ Jesus, has made us FREE from the LAW of sin and death.
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose house you are ...
You died on the cross; and become DESOLATE, no LIFE, you were raised a body, a new creation, life no longer of the blood; but OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST, by the Spirit of our Father.
Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery .....Christ in you ....
God Bless YOU!
Revelation 19:10 And I (John) fell at his (Jesus) feet to worship him, and he (Jesus) said unto me (John), See thou doeth it not, I (Jesus) am thy (John) fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony (words) of Jesus: worship God (the father of ALL, including Jesus, Ephesians 4:6), for the testimony (words) of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy.
Jesus is our full brother.
Romans 8:29 For whom he (the Father) did foreknow, he (the Father) also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his (the Father's) SON, that he (Jesus) might be the firstborn of many BRETHREN.
We are also servants to Jesus, as Jesus is a servant to his Father. Just as Jesus, the servant, worships his God and Father, we are not to worship Jesus; but God our Father, we are fellowservants and sons and daughters to God our Father, and are to worship the Father.
Jesus told his disciples as he washed their feet he was SENT to be a SERVANT, a servant does the WORK for his master; therefore, Christ does EVERYTHING for us.
Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ....Christ in you ....
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
John 15:5 I AM the vine, ye are the BRANCHES .....without ME (immortal LIFE) ye can do NOTHING.
God Bless YOU!
Revelation 6:6 ...and see thou hurt not the oil and wine.
The OLD is a SHADOW of the NEW.
Numbers 18:12 All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and the wheat, the FIRSTFRUITS of them which they shall offer to the LORD, them have I given thee.
Numbers 18:13 And WHOSOEVER is FIRST RIPE in the land, which they shall bring in to the LORD, SHALL BE THINE; everyone that is clean in THINE HOUSE shall eat of it.
Romans 8:23 Not only they, but WE OURSELVES, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit ....
Revelation 14:4 ...being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and the Lamb.
1 Corinthians 15:23 .....Christ the FIRSTFRUITS ......
Notice Christ the firstfruits is PLURAL.
Galatians 4:19 .....till Christ be FORMED IN YOU ....
Revelation 6:6 ....and see thou not hurt the oil and the wine (the firstfruits).
God Bless YOU!
Thanks again Jimbob for your thoughts on this. Tribulation or Great Tribulation? I see a difference. The apostles, the early Church & believers today are not exempt from tribulation; it will come to us as declared ( Matthew 13:21; John 16:33; Acts 14:22; Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc): not just physical hardships, but certainly the exercises by the enemy against us, even to testings of faith & martyrdom. We are not insulated from any of these, nor should we expect to be, but what of the Tribulation sent by God our Father? You shared 1 Thessalonians 3:4, "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know." You understand that Paul was referring to the Great Tribulation, of God's Wrath. I don't see that at all in his discourse, rather, that Paul was describing his own afflictions (vv 3,7 & coupled with 1 Thessalonians 2:2,9,14). I see a clear difference between the two expressions of Tribulation: that which comes to all of us, & that which is only directed to haters of God & His Christ.
What then are we not appointed to? To our daily tribulations, even to suffering or dying for Christ, or to God's Wrath to unbelievers? I note that you agree to this: that believers won't face the outpouring of God's Wrath against a Christ-rejecting World, by your understanding that this outpouring will happen only after the believers are caught away (i.e. post-tribulation). The contention then is: is God's Wrath the same as the Great Tribulation? I believe the Great Tribulation is still to come - we haven't in the least begun to experience anything of it now. When it starts, we know that the time of the end is at hand and believers will be caught away before the world begins to feel the Mighty Hand of God against them. (cont'd).
I would like to add to what Gigi has already shared.
You asked, "WHO is the CAUSE of suffering ?
I believe the cause of suffering goes back to the Garden of Eve.
All of God's creation was effected by the fall.
We suffer physically and emotionally.
And we suffer persecution because of our new birth.
We have a sin nature in this EARTHY TABERNACLE.
Romans 5:12 says "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and SO DEATH PASSED UPON ALL MEN, FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED:
Look at Romans 8:18-23.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
8:22 FOR WE KNOW THAT THE WHOLE CREATION GROANETH AND TRAVAILETH IN PAIN TOGETHER UNTIL NOW.
8:23 AND NOT ONLY THEY, BUT OURSELVES ALSO, WHICH HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, EVEN WE OURSELVES GROAN WITHIN OURSELVES, WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION, TO WIT, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY.
We see what it will be like when all God's creation is redeemed in
Revelation 21:1-4.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
There are enough descriptions of the heavenly city; the New Jerusalem to sufficiently convince our minds of the riches of His glory to come. One must; however get beyond what Satan himself beheld before his fall. All the riches of splendor are of no avail when the soul has become proud; corrupted and rotten. Compare this to the state of Adam after his fall when he saw an earthly paradise slowly decay to thorns in his garden; his progeny being about the first murder with Cain slaying Abel; and finally watching the antidiluvian world quickly spiral out of control hastening toward judgment before his own demise.
With both heaven and earth it is; of course God's glory which is the center of attention as He is the Creator of all things. The Spirit within testifies to our spirit that we are the children of God ( Romans 8:16). A dwelling place is being prepared for us suitable for our new roles as kings and priests; and eventually for us to partake in a new heaven and earth where there is no more death; and sorrow ( Rev. 5:10; 21:4).
Our earth at present is contaminated; ripe for judgment because of the sin of men; and fallen angels. Psalm 140:3 states that the "poison of asps is under their lips." There are numerous other verses about wicked men; and the fact that we were all enemies of Christ before being granted repentance ( Romans 5:10; 2 Tim. 2:25; etc.) Once we are saved; we stop looking within and focusing on ourselves; and we can look to Christ and His church as part of a future; a heavenly calling and thus truly be free to serve and love our Creator. The rest of the world; of course is caught up with created things; forgetting that the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God ( 1 Cor. 3:19). Thus; all the A.I. world with it's endless violence; cyber fantasies and other vain imaginations will as a vapor pass away as will all we hold dear to other than God in this world.
Luke 18:1-7 kjv,
Philippians 4:1-9 kjv,
Romans 8:27-29 kjv.
John 14:6 kjv.