Discuss Romans 8 Page 9

Alex1939...Ellix2u I agree with you some what...But we have to birth the Child which is the H.G. that Child of Promise.. but when the book ( that New Covenant ) is opened...We will all travail in birth pains...As Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains Jeremiah 30:6...Its gonna happen automatically after tHE BOOK IS OPENED...We answer to the woman in Rev 12:10 that is giving birth to the Children of the Kingdom which are spirits An Israel of God which is the H.G. God is gonna pour out of his spirit on ALL FLESH...We dont have anything to do with it as our carnal minds is the very ENEMY of God..

.....This New Covenant is different then the O.C...Thats y Romans 8:5 is telling us ...While we were yet sinners Christ died for ALL of us...Its not according to the O.C... Jeremiah 31:34...God Almighty gave us this N.C. Saying I will KNOW them ALL from the least to the greatest...If I be lifted up I will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME...When he took the cup he said this is the New Covenant in my blood drink ye all of it...Which took place on Calvary...I was found of them that sought me not and made manifest unto them that asked not after me...What a Covenant, I kiss you my son Jesus...Its all his doings...But there is a Child involved b/c of his seed the words of the book....Ya gotta realize he has to KNOW US..We can only birth this Child via his seed the living word the contents of the book that he wrote with his own blood that N.C...Remember that tree of KNOWLEDGE.

.....That which is Perfect is yet to come on the 3 rd day...I will be perfected on the 3 rd day...Outta of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou has PERFECTED PRAISE...Unless you receive this Kingdom OF God as a lil Child you will in NO WISE ENTER THERE. IN... Isaiah 11:9....Knowledge is gonna cover the earth as the waters cover the seas...I will know (knowledge an intimacy ) them all from the least to the greatest...Thus the Woman giving birth to the Children...The babes and sucklings our new heart n new spirit.

Part 3

As promised here is my explanation. Our minds are developing through our 20s when we finally become "adults". We can thankfully be freed from ingrained sin; but there are lasting scars and weaknesses that we are vulnerable to. The enemy always falls short in his promises. There are few who gain great strides in wealth and status in this world from Satan's aid; but at best they are never totally fulfilled; and in the end there is always a price to pay. Once we begin to understand the control that Satan has over this whole world system and how we are; apart from Christ totally helpless and hellbound then we are prepared for the victory we can have through Christ when He calls and chooses us out of the world for His Name's sake. We can then give a "Word of testimony" ( Revelation 12:11). This comes to its ultimate fulfillment for the countless multitude massacred during the Great Tribulation. But it starts now; as one cannot help but share how they are set free from the bondage of sin; into the glorious kingdom of God. ( Romans 8:2).

With this background then; I will state that more specifically there are some who are able to more readily discern what is going on in the spiritual realm if they are gifted in discernment. They are called to minister in the Body as well as others with different giftings are to do the same thing. Being given this gift myself; I really don't have much of an idea HOW this can be done or where it is being practiced. The true Word of God isn't usually something people in this age want to hear; and that of course fits into any spiritual truths. There are truly those who you can see are under demonic influence or else are particularly blessed. As with anyone ministering to others we need to make sure that it is God speaking to us; and we need to repent quickly of sins so the enemy doesn't have legal grounds to affect our minds and deceive us. Our soul and spiritual entities interact together so we must view both

The Spiritual Dimension

...The life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God..." That is part of Galatians 2:20. His Spirit also testifies with our spirit that we "are children of God" according to Romans 8:16. Scripture cannot be read alone with mental faculties and understood as God's truth unless these realities exist; namely being Born of the Spirit ( John 3:6-8) makes the Word living and active in our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12).

Scriptural truth also is what separates the God of truth and His angels from the fallen angels and demons that are the ruling principalities and powers of this world in this age ( Ephesians 6:12). Thus; we can experience God whether "in or out of the body" ( 2 Corinthians 12:2) as Paul did and by extension a demonic spiritual "trip" can occur much in the same way.

Anyone realistically wanting to understand 2 Corinthians 5:8 on being absent from the body; present with the Lord will understand that being in His presence as a believer is overwhelming to the extent that John fell at His feet as though dead ( Revelation 1:17). This is all the more telling since he was the disciple who always was closest to Jesus and even in his own testimony most loved ( John 13:23 and apparently in 4 other verses).

If we are NOT truly in Christ then there is only the terror of the Lord and of course immediate judgment and condemnation for those who are goats rather than sheep. Thus; those who promote a false gospel even if they were brain dead and came back to life God allows them to continue here for a while for His purposes. It would seem that it is possible as long as a body can be resuscitated for a few minutes that this can occur; that is a far cry from Lazarus being raised from the dead or the Lord Himself.

In any case, anyone preaching a gospel other than the truth let him be "anathema" ( Galatians 1:8); and that includes angels as well. To know we are hearing from God being saved is a minimum requirement.

Someone should emai Romans 8:28

to be Putin!

A simple lesson.

WORKS OF THE FLESH vs FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT.

WORKS OF THE FLESH;

For a Christian, when we are born again our flesh dies. " Our natural independency or self reliance." for lack of a better description.

We have nothing credible to offer God of ourselves to present anything righteous.

Romans 8:2-10.

FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT.

Right away we see a contrast of the two in the term alone.

Romans 8:11-13.

Fruit is attached to a branch and that branch is attached to a vine! The vine gives it life. That life saved and sanctified us. ( Not just Positionally but transitionally.) It changed us! John 15:1-5.

Romans 8:11-13.

Work/efforts of the flesh is dead works unattached and no ability to produce anything that pleases God.

John 15:5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING.

God bless.

Who said Noah was a Hebrew?

Indeed Noah was a descendent of Adam ( as we all are ) but it was when Abraham was separated FROM his generation and finally separated into God did he become the father of the faithful .

But Abraham had two sons . Both were not Hebrew . But only the son of promise not the son of flesh of the bond woman.

Shauna,

If you are referring to Psalm 138:8, I would say this is talking about God in His infinite wisdom perfecting our lives.

Romans 8:28 says, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."



The word good used in this verse is the word AGATHOS, meaning spiritual good. Human good is KALOS. Spiritual good is AGATHOS.



That makes a big difference because if I'm looking at it religiously, (humanly), and on a horizontal physical plain, when it says "all thing work together for good," that means in the human, God's going to work things out good for me in the human and in the flesh.



No, this is spiritual good. Also, please notice that it doesn't say all things are good. It says that all things are going to be worked out for the good.



What's good and bad in the human, that's our judgment system. To God, everything is good because He's doing everything. And when we have things "go wrong," in God's vocabulary, that's not even in there. We might say, "Lord, things are going wrong." But to Him everything is going right.



We know that all things work together for good, and look at the two descriptions of the people for whom everything is working out for the good. It is to those who love God, and to those who are called according to His purpose.



Why? Because everything's going to work out according to the will of God, so that when I do pray for the Lord's will to be done, I can know because this is a promise right from God, that all things work together for the good. It's because He's working it out in our lives. He's perfecting us!

Amen Brother Jesse.

These passages is so important to understand!

The crucifixion and resurrection brought life. "Sanctification.

Then Paul goes on In Romans 8 and talk about our walk!

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but after the Spirit.

FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Paul is giving us a lesson on the laws of nature between the flesh and the Spirit.

This is spiritual physics if you will.

Our old nature was married to sin "Inseparable!!

Salvation is much more than just atonement and freeing us from the penalty of sin but it also assists us in the power over sin and a fruit filled life BY THE WORKING OF THE SPIRIT. We had and have nothing to offer of ourselves.

Some of the most used verses in Romans 8 is the first half of verse 1. "THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS." and Romans 8:28-39.

The context of Romans 8:2-27 seems to get looked over alot.

Paul has a lot to say about the work of the Holyspirit and the contrast between the flesh and the Spirit in Romans 6 on through Romans 8.

GB.

alex1939...Gerald GBU but let me remind you its what Jesus did at Calvary that saved all of us...His blood that New Covenant in his blood... Romans 5:8...While we were yet sinners Christ died for us,all of us...If i be lifted up i will draw ALL MEN unto me...The 2 theives were made Clean by his blood and the words he spoke to them...That New Covenant in his blood You are made Clean by the Words i have spoken unto you...Abide in me and i in you ...They didn't need to be water baptised the old covenant Johns water baptism...This was a new COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD...Remember what Peter said to whom shall we go lord thou has the Words of Eternal life...Jesus had a conversation with these 2 theives and it was his words that made them Clean... Hebrews 10:20 I was found of them that sought me not and i was made manifest unto them that asked not after me...This New Covenant is a different covenant then the 1 st covenant...God Almighty says i will know them ALL from the least to the greatest... Jeremiah 31:34...And this knowledge is an intimacy that is gonna form Christ in everybody...Thus the babes and sucklings he mentions...And Isaiah says that this Knowledge is gonna cover the earth as the waters cover the seas...Thats everybody...As Bro Paul mentions the whole creation groans for the manifestation of the Son of God (birth pains) ...The Children of Promise the H.G.... Romans 8:22...Real Faith is a spirtual pregnancy...They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin his words are his seeds that are gona fulfill that great Promise of Multiplication and regeneration...But these things are hid from the wise and prudent and revealed unto babes...Spirits the H.G. a living being our new heart and new spirit...An Israel of God...That New heaven and new earth...His seed and his name sake the H.G...27 times in the O.T. the Prophets saw the world in travail and birth pains...And thats y Elijah has to come and turn the fathers hearts to the Children...The Children of Promise...gbu Gerald

Hello John. As Richard has given you the requested Scripture ( Ephesians 1:14), I will simply share my understanding of the verses 13 & 14: "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

The Apostle Paul is writing to the believers that they also had put their trust in Jesus after they had heard & believed the Gospel. They were sealed by the Holy Spirit - the Spirit is given to all who love & trust Jesus for their salvation & their lives. The Holy Spirit, by His residence in the believer, ministers to our hearts in every way. Some of the ways are: teaching ( John 16:12-15); Guiding ( Romans 8:14); Assuring ( Romans 8:16); Praying ( Romans 8:26, Ephesians 6:18); Comforting/Helping ( John 14:26).

But the foremost Work of the Spirit in the believer is to "seal" him, or 'set a mark' that we belong to Christ. And that is why Paul states in Romans 8:35-39 that nothing, absolutely nothing, can ever separate us "from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". And here in Ephesians, Paul is stating that our sealing (or, eternal security) by the Holy Spirit is our "earnest", or God's guarantee/pledge until our redemption. Some might say, 'I thought we were already redeemed when we believed & bought by Christ's precious Blood?' Yes, we were fully redeemed spiritually, i.e. inwardly, when we were born again, given a new Spirit, which is of God. But our flesh (body), still tainted with sin & prone to failure before God waits for, rather longs for the day when our redemption is made complete ( Romans 8:23). So Paul says in Ephesians, that our redemption will be made complete when we are taken from this Earth, given new bodies, outfitted for Heaven. And all praise & glory goes to the Lord Who has done all this for us.

Ephesians 1:14. The concept of the Kinsman-Redeemer was in the Book of Ruth; as to Boaz obtaining Ruth as part of his inheritance; or you could say "property". The concept of ownership is foreign in today's culture in terms of slavery; however we should look at verses such as Luke 17:10 on us being "unworthy servants" when we do what we are told. With the story of Ruth she was from a Gentile origin; and her sister Orpha decided to abandon Naomi when she told her to go back to her people (the Moabites). Apparently Ruth's first husband was an Israelite but he had died. Ruth hanging on despite Naomi asking her to go back reminds me somewhat of the tenacity of the Gentile woman asking for healing in Matthew 15:26. The colloquialism Christ used was of the dogs; yet she was commended for her faith.

Obviously; Christ redeemed us as His bride from among all mankind according to the Ephesians quote and this is mentioned in many other verses (Google search is always very helpful). As Boaz brought value to Ruth by marrying her and continuing the lineage of Naomi's family we are adopted as sons ( Romans 8:14-17). God took us; worthless sinners hopelessly lost and His enemies and took on our sin defeating it with His blood sacrifice once and for all at the Cross. He purchased us and it even pleased God to crush Him to accomplish this ( Isaiah 53:10). God's love therefore transcends our own as we would scarcely die for a righteous man let alone a wicked one (according to human standards) according to Romans 5:7.

Now that we are part of His family; we also will recieve crowns as a reward for faithfulness ( James 1:12 etc). We shall rule and reign with Him ( Matthew 19:28-29) but notice the caviat; "if we suffer for Him". We are warned in Revelation 3:11 about losing our reward; that is not a salvation issue. However; we need to make sure that we are producing fruit "meet of repentance" ( Acts 26:20). If He lives within us we are transformed and a new man.

Hi Giannis.

Good questions.

The emphasis was on the motive in which we do things. " Examine ourselves to see if we are doing it by command. glory or Agape.

I believe what is important is the Heart behind every action.

The work and the heart behind the things we do that pleases God can only be achieved by the Holyspirit.

Romans 8:7-9.

In my post I was asking WHAT IS OUR MOTIVE when we do the things we are asked NOT to do.

That's why a stated; "If we are supposed to be moved by the Spirit "by the instrument of faith" unto good works but yet we don't display good works, then our faith is vain/dead, Then is it fair to say that if we provide works THAT IS NOT BY THE INFLUENCE of the spirit that causes obedience to God's word, "then our work is vain."

Here's an Scriptural example

Matthew 6:1-8.

If our works confirms our faith and that work is tried by fire, it will stand. But if we perform a work we are asked NOT to do, What is the motive? Pride? And should we care?

If pride I believe we are building with wood hay and stubble. It will go up in smoke!

So the context in these posts isn't focused on the people in rebellion to God's instructions. It's focus is on those who seem content in their salvation when we should be concerned about the order mentioned in scripture that helps us grow so we don't become lukewarm.

Our attitude and trust in God's structure and instructions being profound or not to Grow "or perfect" the Church is on trial

Ephesians 4:11-16. seems to say he gave particular offices to particular people to Prosper the Church.

Thanks and Goodnight.

Go back read Genesis 6:11 - 22 where Gods makes a covenant with Noah and his family and tells him to bring aboard the ark two of every flesh/sort male and female . are the wicked a sort ? How about People of color ? is it possible man was already on earth and populated it before Adam ? is it suggested in the beginning God made the races on the fifth day of creation both male and female ? is a thousand yours on earth just a day to God ? I have read where they do suggest . and Noah brought aboard two of every race color and creed .

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Hello Robert, The Hebrew people descended from Eber (sometimes called Heber) who was the great grandson of Shem through Arphaxad and then Salah.. Genesis 10 shows the Table of Nations that descended from Noah's sons Shem, Japheth and Ham. Genesis 11 speaks more about the descendants of Shem from which came the name Semite.

The Hebrew people included many peoples descended from Eber. He had two sons, Joktan (had 13 sons) and Peleg. he had other sons and daughters also. The lineage of Peleg is the line from which Abraham descended. So. Abraham and his lineage were but one of many lines from Eber. So, there were and are many Hebrew peoples that did not descend from Abraham. Yet God chose Abraham out of all the descendants of Noah to select out a specific subgroups of Hebrews to be His chosen people to covenant with.

In the world today, there are people who descended from Shem, Ham, or Japheth. Many are a mix of these lineages over the generations. We are not all Hebrews due to this.

If all people were destroyed and Noah and his family were the only ones left on the earth then we all are children of Noah. That being said why are we not all Hebrew?

Alex1939...In Matthew 24:3-8...When they asked Jesus what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world He replied Sorrows (Birth pains)...The Woman in Rev. 12. is in Birth pains....Which is a spiritual pregnancy...And the Woman is the best example of Faith...The very Kingdom of God comes for this Woman...Which is humanity...Rev.12:10....Now is come Salvation and the Kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ (the child) is the H.G....The Kingdom is the manchild the H.G. That is gona rule all nations with his rod of iron..the words of the book that has been opened...The new covenant...An intimacy a knowledge....He wants to know everybody...Its gonna cover the earth as the waters cover the seas.

And remember Bro. Paul speaks of the whole Creation in Travail n birth pains...becoming incorruptible simply we are all gonna be bornagain of an incorruptible seed.... Romans 8:21...ok gtg..Gbu...And this Woman keeps the commandments..b/c her child cannot sin....That new born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word is the H.G. that Paul speaks of is the Child of PROMISE..Our new innerman the H.G...The very gift of God.

Further clarification would demonstrate that in Christ we are truly fulfilling the law. The law itself could not validate a death sentence for thinking about fornication or adultery; or murder but in the heart it showed that it was worthy of spiritual judgment leading eventually to eternal death. Philippians 2:13 shows that God gives us the WILL (sorry about the shouting just emphasizing stuff here) to obey. We cannot love the law as the Psalmist spends all 172 verses of the longest Psalm (119) describing in the flesh as the flesh and spirit are in emnity. In the flesh we cannot obey as Romans 8:8 and other scriptures indicate.

Again; the ceremonial laws Christ Himself deliberately allowed to be broken (such as eating heads of grain on the Sabbath Day). He also corrected the Pharisees as to what "work" truly involved; showing that mercy was more important than blind legalism by healing on the Sabbath repeatedly.

In some sense then the New Covenant or more superior one abrogated the old ( Hebrews 9:15). Even the Old Testament allowed for God's grace to stand above judgment; for instance with David's sin with Bathsheeba that involved adultery and being complicit to murder. These were death sentence penalties according to the law. God also had a greater plan since His lineage came from the line of David. Notwithstanding this; however there was collateral damage such as the loss of the child (who David would see someday in heaven); as well as enemies being a constant thorn in the side.

Our sin is a serious matter; Paul warned the Corinthians about taking communion unworthily ( 1 Cor. 11:27); as well as in the book of Acts Ananias and Sapphira were killed because they lied to the Holy Spirit. We can then be saved but taken out early; if we are saved. Those who continue in an unrepentant LIFESTYLE of sin likely aren't saved as there is no conviction of the Spirit; or new heart showing genuine conversion. We must not only know the truth but LOVE it.

Ephesians 1:13-14 states that we are sealed withe Spirit unto the day of redemption. Notwithstanding this; it is not a mere verbal statement that assures salvation. Therefore to those TRULY born again; indeed they are saved in a "once saved always saved" way. We all have as evidence of genuine faith a need to REPENT (turn from sin); but God actually GIVES us the desire to repent through the GIFT of repentance ( Acts 5:31; etal). It is more doctrinally sound to say that GOD elects or chooses those who will become adopted sons or inherited into the Kingdom ( Colossians 1:13; Romans 8:22-23). We must confess with our mouths; of course but that comes along with belief in the heart ( Romans 10:9). Those who are saved because they LOVE God they keep His commandments ( John 14:15). Those who are saved will bear fruit ( John 15:2). The surrounding scriptures and parable of the sower show that a person must pass through the temptations of the world and be proven to be true sons ( Hebrews 12:8). Those who are true believers are chastised as He does with all those He loves. The fruit of the Spirit eventually manifests; and God continues to prune (or sanctify) us to produce MORE fruit. The others fall away eventually to the world; flesh and devil; only God can save us from ourselves and these forces which are blinding those who don't know the Lord ( 2 Cor. 4:4).

The 10 Commandments therefore are still in force today; but we are unable to follow with the MORE stringent matters of the heart which only again comes from the Spirit. Without this there is an outward obedience only. The only thing which has changed is the Sabbath Day; and I would say that Matthew 12:8 answers this by placing Sunday as the day of rest. This is also the only command that was peculiar to the nation of Israel; rather than universal law which clearly as shown with John the Baptist in matters of divorce holding for pagans as well. Other ceremonial rules changed with Peter's vision in Acts 10.

The first 8 verses in Psalm 44 give us a brief overview of the history if Israel; with God leading them to victory over their enemies largely fought by the Lord Himself. We think of men like Joshua and Caleb; whose victory over Jericho was due to deliverance as a result of trusting God in obedience in what seemed like a bizarre invasion plan. We should also realize that quite often when there were casualties among the camp it was due to a direct sin of the people (usually tied with idol worship or in Saul's case heeding to the people's desires rather than God's specific instructions).

Verses 9 through 11 show how once again the armies of Israel were being defeated. Verse 11 has a similar tone to verse 22 which appears in a statement by Paul in regard to the Apostles being persecuted ( Romans 8:36). It is also true that Chris Himself was led like this as prophesied in Isaiah 53:7. Evidence of being sold into slavery is in verse 12. Verse 16 talks of the voice o he who blasphemes; that could be true of the Assyrian king as well as Antichrist in the future. Evidently in this case; adherance to the covenant or worship of false gods at this time was NOT an issue (v. 20).

The rest of the Psalm (verses 23-26) seem to indicate that God appears to have taken a sabbatical so to speak in regard to action to deliver His people. This is the affect of the Godly remnant who remain on the earth in the end times in particular. The time of "Jacob's trouble" necessitates a trial; but His people will eventually be delivered out of it. Even verses in Deuteronomy mention tribulation and that God is still present at that time. Despite all the attempts of the enemy the Lord has a plan for His people that cannot fail ultimately.

Amen Gigi.

Well spoken, Jesus came to redeem all of creation from the curse pronounced on the world in Genesis. The work of the cross didn't just redeem us, Christ came to redeem all that was created. Romans 8:21-23. The commandments weren't set forth to do that. The commandments were to show the need for redemption.

The commandments given didn't say keep the commandments the best you can.

The second you broke any one of them you were forever lost if there was no sacrifice that could take away sin. Hebrews 10:1-5.

It was the sacrifices that pointed to Christ that made atonement for those sins.

Israel having God in their midst with all the providence showed the world that the heart of man is incurably wicked.

The law showed that there was a need of a savior that could regenerate the believer and give a new heart and life.

The commandments are Holy and was given to a nation that was set apart to show man with God in their midst was nothing like God being "IN" them.

That's what's available today.

God bless.

Hey Daddy,

The keys, the Greek word Kleis, are not actual keys in a physical form, it is the power and authority to open and shut. The first of the verse "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold I am alive for evermore". Jesus conquered death because He was sinless, Acts 2:24, and the devil/Satan who had the power of death, that is, the devil (Satan), Heb. 2:14-15 1 John 3:8.

Romans 8:10-11 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

My understanding is Jesus was in the tomb/hell for the three days and He did not ascend to the Father until He rose from the tomb. John 20:17, Jesus ascended to the Father and presented himself and was accepted by God the First Fruits of them that slept. He returned and met the women on the road going to tell the apostles and they could then touch Him, Matt.28:9.

God bless,

RLW

Interestingly this site has the 1611 version. It doesn't include that book. However I've heard of a version approximately 150+ years later that may have included that book. Is that a book added to scripture as warned about? Deuteronomy & Revelation 22:19,

By simple surface study, it seems not to be in the Bible before or after & debated as not GOD's WORD.

I myself stay away from it because some things I've heard say in it, contradict Bible scripture. If you're in question read Tobit in 1611, Philippians 2, Romans 8:14, Hebrews 1:13,14, Matthew 22:30,

I humbly recommend to you, please read the Word within Genesis to Revelation, study get to know the scriptures well, ask for wisdom James 1:5 & discerment of Truth before looking into the other, if you do at all

Hopefully these are helpful in your searching

THE STATE OF MAN AND UNCHANGEABLENESS OF GOD

Psalm 139:8 shows that God is everywhere; including in what was the abode of the dead; Sheol. Think for a minute what this implies. When we see what can only be taken as a literal story of Lazarus and the rich man we see two individuals clearly in a different state in the afterlife. In fact; the rich man is still there and will be until the Great White Throne Judgment.

The souls of the righteous; however are now present with the Lord ( Ephesians 4:8; 2 Cor. 5:6).

No longer are those who die in the Lord held captive by the Devil from the presence of God ( Hebrews 2:14-15). Only the rightous will actually see God; Psalm 11:6-7 illustrate this along with the fate of the wicked in hell in great detail. Even this life; in fact shows how one can be dead in trespasses and sins yet physically alive ( Ephesians 2:1). This will be the eternal state for the wicked in the lake of fire.

Our human minds cannot conceive how God does not change; and how He can be a God of mercy and grace yet render eternal judgment on the unregenerate; also those whose souls God created ( Ezekiel 18:4). Nonetheless; that verse illustrates how a father and son and blood relations are not relevant for determining the salvation of an individual. We see that in the book of Joshua with Gideon that God is for those who are on his side; whatever we percieve in our reality as the right or wrong sides. God brings good to those who love Him ( Romans 8:28). It is according to HIS PURPOSE that these things occur; the same holds true for the wicked as God has no joy in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23) but grace is only available for repentance in THIS LIFE according to His terms.

Nicely put, I too frown on belittling , it should be met with tough Love , I found this on the web "What does the Bible say about tough love?"

Aug 10, 2022 Tough love is often necessary because, as fallen humans, we have a tendency not to respond to gentle taps on the shoulder. Our heavenly Father will do whatever is necessary to conform His children into the likeness of Christ, as He predestined us for this very reason ( Romans 8:28-30 ). Indeed, this is what His discipline is all about.

How to pray & how to endure through crisis = Luke 22:40, Matthew 6, Luke 11, Romans 8:26-39,

Psalms 139, (remember the guy that wrote that, had to live in caves for a time, while fleeing unjust persecution,) Jesus himself had to encourage himself knowing while everyone else would abandon Him, GOD would not. John 16:32,33,

Mark 14:38, Mark 11:13-26, Luke 21:36, Hebrews 13:3,5,6,

Luke 18, John 14:16,

2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, Matthew 24:13, Romans 8:18,

Hopefully these help you

Deborah:

Your question, who are the dead in Christ that rise first?

They were the Old Testament Saints, they died not having received the promise, eternal life through the resurrection of Christ Jesus.

When Christ was resurrected, they also were resurrected.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were open; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves, after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, (NEW Jerusalem) and appeared to many.

They were caught up into the air, and when we depart this body of flesh, in the twinkling of an eye, we are caught up, as they were into the presence of God, because you are married to him and have become one with him.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a lamb stood on Mt. Zion, and with him an hundred and forty four thousand (symbolic, not literally 144,00), having his father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 14:4 ..... the are the firstfruits (of Christ resurrection) unto God and the Lamb.

Romans 8:23 And not only they (Old Saints), but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the SPIRIT (life and truth in us) ....

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection .....

God Bless You!

God through the inspiration of the Spirit gives David confidence against his foes in Psalm 27.

We are reminded in verse 4 of Psalm 84:10 as to it being better having the lowest position as "gatekeeper" in heaven than anything on earth; or the alternative of hell; certainly.

Verses 5 and 6 remind us of Psalm 40 in being lifted up and trusting in the Rock of God which is Christ. There could possibly be prophetic overtones in either passage of the Rapture; and or protection during times in the future Tribulation for certain Jews in hiding. We see a theme here of continuing trust in God; not just a fleeting moment when trouble arises. This helps an individual be able to clearly hear the voice of the Lord with all the competing ones of the world; the flesh and the Devil. Verse 9 shows to some extent how the Spirit was more transient in the lives of the O.T. saints; although God's people still ultimately were saved.

Verse 10 certainly cannot be overstated as it fits in to so many today; certainly whose own families foresake them or worse for proclaiming the Gospel truth. We are today "adopted sons" of Christ ( Romans 8:14-17) if truly Born Again. We have a Father in heaven who never leaves us or foresakes us.

Verse 12 demonstrates how false witnesses came up in David's life and certainly this applies to Christ when on earth. Finally; there is an admonition in the last two verses to wait patiently; as well as a hint of the Millennium Kingdom in verse 13 when we can be certain thar goodness will be in the "land of the living." Today the remnant believers are few and far between and many have fallen away as the scriptures predict.

Hi Gigi.

Hebrews 10:19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (We can now come into his presence)

1 Corinthians 6:19. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (Because he abides in us.)

1 John 4:4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is "HE" that is in you, than he that is in the world. (It is a "HE" that is in you that is stronger than he that is in the world.)

John 17:21-23. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I IN THEM, AND THOU IN ME, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, if a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, (AND MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM). "The Holyspirit is God's spirit in us!

Romans 8:11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU. (It is the father, the son, and the Holyspirit abiding in us according to these scriptures.) AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.

Ephesians 4:4-6. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

With so many scriptures like this given a would be confusing if there were no trinity.

The way you have explained it often is well represented by scripture.

God bless you.

Hi.

John 4:24 GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

"ONE LORD," one faith, ONE BAPTISM,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

Romans 8:11. ( BUT IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM ) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, HE THAT RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD shall also quicken your mortal bodies BY HIS SPIRIT that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 15:45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; THE LAST ADAM WAS MADE A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

Acts 13:30. But God raised him from the dead:

Study these verses and you will see the trinity in who raised up Christ from the dead.

John 10:17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

God bless.

Praise the LORD for all the comforting words of wisdom declared and shared on this forum. It is good to know that brethren exist and are active in every avenue of worship and praise unto the LORD JESUS CHRIST. It is like traveling- no matter where I go I can be assured there will be body of believers singing the praises of the LORD; preaching the Word of GOD; and I will comforted and allowed to be amongst them.

Let us extend our faith and knowledge of the LORD by praying and calling on GOD for HIS hand upon our current leadership in Washington. Our trust in Scripture and obedience to the same will bring about change as GOD, the LORD JESUS CHRIST see best for our times. May we lay aside every weight, especially the sin before us, and "let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Looking unto JESUS the author and finisher of our faith;..." Hebrews 12: 1b, 2a

So much before us to pray for and be active in; there is much we can do in HIS name. Let us start from the beginning: Romans 10: 9, 10; Ephesians 2: 8-10; Matthew 28: 18-20; 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2: 1-5; 2 Peter 1: 1-8. Many more passages, I'm sure you can add to the list, Amen!

GOD bless everyone on this forum, and may the LORD GOD meet all your needs. "Who shall separate us from the love of CHRIST? ... Nay, in all things we are more than conquerors through HIM that loved us." Romans 8: 35, 37, 38, 39

The LORD bless you, and keep you! The LORD to make HIS face to shine on you, and be gracious to you. The LORD to lift HIS countenance upon you, and give you peace. Numbers 6: 24-26

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October 11, 2022