Discuss Romans 9 Page 2

Has the whole world been deceived as recorded in Revelation 12:9? The 'Word of God' is the truth in all things ( Romans 9:1;

1 John 2:27).

Be not Deceived ( 1 Cor. 6:9; 15:33; Gal. 6:7).

lemme ramble a bit about the just and the unjust....Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit..... Romans 9:8.... Flesh and blood are not the Children of God.....Its only the Children of Promise that are counted for that GOOD SEED....Who are the Children of Promise?... They are the gift of God the H.G.....Which is born of the spirit in US via his good seed...The LIVING WORD NOT THE WRITTEN WORD....As faith comes by hearing his good seed the living word that initiates a spiritual pregnancy.....B/C I have spoken these living words sorrows have filled your hearts a spiritual pregnancy ....A woman when she is in travail has sorrows but after the CHILD ( The H.G.) is COME HER SORROWS are turned into Joy... John 16:20.....The H.G. is he that is born of the spirit...The gift of God....An Israel of God.. Gal. 16:6...She brought forth aman child that is gona rule all nations Rev. 12 :5 kjv.....Which is the H.G. as no man can call Jesus the Christ without the H.G. that living word....Which is that Child of Promise that is gona be born in you....Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth ME ME

Its only the living word the H.G. that testifies of Jesus....When he the spirit of truth is come he will testify of me which is the H.G.... John 15:22....Thats y we must be born again of an incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth for ever as Peter said....The living word which is spirit and life.....

..... John 5:39 .Thats y Jesus is saying Search the scriptures the written words in them you think you have eternal life but it is only them that testifies of me....Which is the H.G. THE LIVING WORD, that spirit of truth that testifies of me....Which is that New Covenant that he gave us by his blood at Calvary....The book in the right hand of the father that Jesus wrote with his own blood.....Whosoever was not found written in this book of life was cast into the lake of fire...As our God is a consuming fire..H.G. fire..

Hammer63

Do you believe what THE WORD says.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all shall be made alive.

Has this not already happen, at the cross and resurrection?

Galatians 2:20 I am Crucified with Christ ...

Are not these words for ALL men, do you believe you were crucified with Christ 2000 years ago, not yet born, but reaping the gift of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For BY GRACE are you SAVED (given immortal LIFE) ......

This happened 2000 years ago, do you believe you were given this gift of God before you ever knew to do right or wrong?

Romans 9:11 For the children (the new creation, Christ in you) being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to the election (of Grace) might stand not of works, but of him (the Holy Ghost) that CALLETH.

Is it not God that is doing ALL THINGS according to his good pleasure.

Are not ALL men a POT and God the POTTER?

Is not God going to DESTROY ALL marred POTS and remake them into vessels of HONOUR.

All this was done at the cross and RESURRECTION.

God will CAUSE his creation to come to TRUTH at his good pleasure.

It's all THE WORKS of God, man has no say in what God see fit to do, we just know what the END will be.

1 Corinthians 15:28 ..... GOD will be ALL in ALL.

God bless you.

Jimbob i will gladly show you a scripture that Proves the Saints are Spirits....Which are the Children of PROMISE THE H.G. Spirits.... Romans 9:8....The Children of the flesh are not the Children of God but the Children of PROMISE are counted for that good seed....The Flesh can only be a joint heir but the real heir is the H.G. THE CHILD OF PROMISE....Not Flesh and blood folks but ..the H.G....As Flesh and blood are not the Children of God thus cannot be ....As its only the H.G. That are the children of PROMISE.....And Sarah shall have a son....Now we are bornagain and have a son which is the H.G. that Child of Promise....and the SAINTS OF GOD ARE SPIRITS....But we are just a joint heir with the H.G. Romans 8:17 kjv....The elect lady which is the Church is the joint heir simply b/c she is the bride....2 John

GiGi the H.G. has to be born in us....Thats y Jesus has to know us....The H.G. requires a seed...Even Jesus was God but he had to be born in Mary via a heavenly seed the living word....Gal.4:1...Now i say unto you that the heir ( the H.G.) as long he is a Child differs nothin from a servant....Though HE BE LORD OF ALL...Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the spirit is Spirit....Thats the H.G. the Child of Promise... that has to be born in us....Our new heart and new spirit our only Saint and innerman....Thats y Jesus is saying when he the spirit of truth is come he cannot speak of himself...Simply b/c he is just an infant and infants cannot speak for while....Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me...simply b/c he is that new born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word....Thats y he always refers to himself as the Son of man simply b/c mankind needs to birth a new innerman a new heart and new spirit...And the H.G. is the Kingdom unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in.

..... Romans 9:8 Not all Israel is Israel that is the Children of the flesh are not the Children of God....Its only the Children of PROMISE that are counted for that good seed....Flesh and blood are not the Children of God....Thus Flesh and Blood can NOT be the SAINTS OR THE ELECT.....Its only the H.G. that are the Children of Promise....And the Israel of God....Behold i send the Promise of my Father upon you...Which was baptism of the H.G. THE ONLY Child of Promise....Thus the SAINTS are not flesh and blood but Spirits.

0817880641. You asked, "what is a gentile to God?" When we think of a 'gentile' (or, a non-Jew), we can only use the word after Noah, the Flood, & ultimately his sons as they & their descendants departed & inhabited the 'new world' (post-Flood). Before Noah, there were no Jews or Israel - but man from the very beginning began to depart from worshiping the true God. So when you look at the generations from Shem (Noah's son, through whom God called out His special people), in Genesis 11:10-26, we see that God had a specific plan to bring about blessing first to Israel & then to the gentiles. Even though it might seem that the gentile was unimportant to God, because they did not receive His Favor, His Laws, & His Presence, gentiles were never far from God's thoughts, even using them to sometimes bless or chastise His people.

Till the coming of Jesus, His Sacrifice for all sinners (Jew & Gentile alike: Romans 10:12, "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him"), the gentile had little knowledge or participation in the Grace of God. Therefore, gentiles, as the Jew, are from the one Adam onto Noah & his sons - all are precious to Him & all will fulfill His Plan for the world.

You have questioned your position & purpose as a gentile before God. The Apostle Paul reminds us in Romans 9:25,26, "As he saith also in Osee (Hosea), I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God" ( Hosea 2:23). This is speaking about us, to us. If you as a gentile rejected God's Call on your life to salvation & blessing, then you would be in the same boat as the Jew, who received the blessings, but still rejecting God's Grace in His Son. "There is no difference". You are more precious to God if you have called upon Him.

Gigi.

You stated; In Romans 9 "the subject really is not Israel nor the Church but God's righteousness and mercy and how one receives these.

Here is how Romans 9 starts;

1) "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Here's how it ends;

9:31) But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32) Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33) As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Here's how Ch 10 starts;

10:1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Here's how ch 10 ends;

21) But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Here's how Ch 11 starts.

1)I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Here's the conclusion:

Romans11:25-27.

Back to my point.

Romans 9:6

"For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" doesn't refer to the Church.

It speaks of the promise of God, not the work of man.

Inheritance was not through natural birth!

It's through the promise given to Abraham back in Genesis.

The text involves Natural Israel and the Israel of God. (The remnant) Romans 11:5.

God bless.

Gigi.

Example. Part 2.

Romans 9:1-6.

Who is Paul's Kinsman of the flesh? Is it the church? No. I'm sure most agree on that.

Paul tells us here in Romans 9:3-4.For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Some believe the distinction made here in

Romans 9:6 is Israel and the Church but scripture Identifies them for us.

Here in Romans 9:7-8 Paul is simply saying Israel don't inherit salvation by natural birth/Kinsman of the flesh,

You inherit it by the promise, which is Christ. He's making a distinction between believing Israel and non believing Israel.

The Church at large is not in the discussion here.

Paul is clearly talking about Abraham's descendants.

It gets clearer as we read

Romans 9:9-10

I'm going to leave off right here Gigi.

It's getting late here and I'm using the cellphone.

I will get back to this when I can get in front of my computer.

Again I will like to go to the OT and comb through the details of the covenants and promises.

God bless you.

Jesus didn't come thru anymans bloodline....Simply b/c All men carried the stain and the spot of adam...Jesus told the Jews you are of this world but i am not of this world...You are from beneath but i am from above....Marys blood and Jesus's blood didn't mix b/c of her placenta.... Acts 20:28...Jesus had the blood of God...feed the Church of God that has purchased with his own blood...Faith under the O.T. Yielded Isaac the Child of Promise...But faith under the N.C. Yields a heavenly Child which is the H.G. the only Child of Promise....And is the multiplication of Jesus via his seed the living word....That New COVENANT....As we have borne the image of the earthy we must also bear (new birth ) the image of the heavenly

.....They cd not have refered to the H.G. as the Promise if he were not the multiplication of Jesus who is God the son..The Abrahamic Promise was earthy but the N.C. by the blood of Jesus is a heavenly Promise...Thats y God swore by his very self when he made this Promise in Gen 22:17....Thats y Jesus was saying to whom the Word came it made them Gods...And the scripture cannot be broken....Thats y Jesus was saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is our new inner man the H.G...The Israel of God....That manchild that is gonna rule all nations..As Romans 9:8 is saying its only the children of Promise that are counted for the good seed which is the H.G. and when God will pour out of his spirit on all flesh its gonna result in an Israel of God...Jacob was the 3rd person and his name was changed to ISRAEL...But it was just prophetic that the H.G. the 3 rd Person wd be the Israel of God which are Spirits as God is spirit...And this Israel of God are gonna be born in us who hear his words which are Jesus seeds....God wants perfect Praise and its only the babes and suckling that praise him perfectly and they are spirits...the H.G....Our new hearts and new spirits is the Kingdom...Unless ya receive the KINGDOM AS A LIL CHILD...His babes.

Jimbob, Thank you for bearing with me.

Part 5

... saying the if the first-fruit (Jesus) is holy, then the whole lump is holy. And if the root be holy, then the whole is holy, the branches (unbelieving Jews) are broken off, and believing Gentiles are ingrafted into the cultivated olive tree (the Israelite nation)

The branches broken off are outside of the redemption of God being separated from the life-giving root (Jesus, the way, the truth, and life). But if the unbelieving Jew repents and believes, he will be grafted back into the cultivated olive tree.

Paul does go on to say the all Israel shall be saved. But is he speaking of ethnic Israel in unbelief, or Jews chosen by election to believe in Jesus and be ingrafted back into the olive tree that has Jesus as its root? He says that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

So, either "All Israel refers to the remnant of elected Israelites that believe in Jesus and are in Him or refers to all Israel going back the Jacob where the nation of Israel began.

verses 32 says that God has concluded them all in unbelief, that He may have mercy upon all.

For me, I don't know which it is, because I do not think that the Bible teaches universal salvation for all of mankind.

Romans 9:27 says that the remnant shall be saved. I don't think Paul is teaching salvation without faith in Jesus here. There is only one way of salvation, faith in God and His Messiah.

Perhaps you have some insight on this. But for now I am getting sleepy. Going to head off to bed. Good night,.

Jimbob,

Romans 9:6-8 "..For not all are not Israel, that are of Israel." Calling out the ethnic Jews as being "uncitizened" so to speak as being genetically of Israel. Paul say, NO they are not all Israel. 2 Cor. 1:20 says "....For all the promises of God find their Yes in Him..." The promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Jesus and Jesus alone fulfills all of the promises of God. God always had His Son in view when making these promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These were not promises only made to Abraham, but re-promised to Isaac, and to Jacob, and then centuries later to the nation of Israel. So if Jesus is the true and absolute Seed of In Abraham, Isaac AND Jacob (Israel).

In Isaiah 49:1-7 the servant of the Lord (Messiah) is called "Israel" in whom God will be glorified. Also in this passage this servant is called God will give His servant (Messiah) as a "light to the Gentiles" Here God plainly speaks of the Messiah as Israel. Verse 2 says that God has made His servant's mouth like a sharp sword. This passage refers to God's servant as Israel, a light to the Gentiles, having a mouth like a sharp sword, the Holy One, Redeemer, who will be despised, who the NATION aborrheth.

In Luke 2:28-32 Simeon prophesies about Jesus when His parents brought Him to the temple. In his prophesying Simeon refers to Isaiah 49:6 as Jesus being the light to the Gentiles. This citation by Luke shows that the "servant, Israel" spoken of in Isaiah 49:1-7 is referring to Jesus. (See also Jn 1:5-11; 8:12.

So, the ethnic Israelites were a type or shadow pointing to the true Israel, Jesus who fulfilled all the requirements of the Law as a jew. God said several times from heaven, that He was well pleased with Jesus, His Son.

When we speak of end times events we do need to not weave a narrative that is not stated in the NT Scriptures, as the OT Covenant was ended in Jesus' advent and the New Covenant in Jesus (as Jacob was a nation of one when called by God as Israel....cont.

Brother SSpencer:

I quoted you scripture.

You believe: because God CAUSES you to believe.

His WORKS.

He doesn't cause everyone to believe at the same time.

Paul didn't believe until God caused him to believe.

Everything has an APPOINTED TIME; it the works of God, his timetable.

He chose Jacob; and not Esau, before they were ever conceived.

Hebrews 11:20 By faith (by the spirit of Christ) Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, concerning THINGS TO COME.

Jacob; the last, was given dominion over the first.

Genesis 27:37

The first born of flesh is not always the first born of spirit.

Matthew 19:30 ... The first shall be last and the last first ....

After the second resurrection, when Esau stands in his former estate, his flesh, he will be caused to believe and the yoke will be broken from his neck.

Genesis 27:40

All things were maded new by Christ resurrection, but all things have an appoint time to come to TRUTH.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER over the clay, of the same lump, to make one a vessel of HONOUR, and the other a vessel of DISHONOUR?

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the world are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE can stay his hand, or say unto him, what doest thou?

Jeremiah 18:4 And the vessel he made of clay was MARRED in the potter's hand, so he MADE it again ....

Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit (when he chooses to do so), they are CREATED and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

Psalms 123:2 ...so our eyes wait upon the lord, UNTIL he have mercy upon us ....

NOT YET are ALL THINGS put under him; BUT, when they are, God will be ALL IN ALL.

God Bless you, my brother in Christ.

The spelling of Esaias that you see in Matthew 3:3, as well as other places in the New Testament (such as Matthew 4:14, John 12:38, Romans 9:27, etc.), is because the KJV translators preferred to record Isaiah's name as it's written in Greek (since the NT was written in that language). Whereas in the Old Testament, Isaiah is written as shown, the equivalent of the Hebrew, Ysha'yah (pr. yeh-shaw-yah), which means 'God (Yahweh) is salvation'.

Romans 9:8...Not all Israel is Israel...That is the Children of the flesh,...natural Israel are not the Children of God...Its the Children of PROMISE that are counted for the GOOD seed...Which is the seed of Christ the word N.C. LIVING spirits...Who are the Children of Promise Spirits. the H.G.....Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit which is the H.G the Child of Promise...Our new innerman...our new heart and new spirit the H.G. is not born by the will of man nor of blood nor of flesh but is only born by the will of God... JOHN 1:13...Thats y we must be bornagain of that incorruptible seed yielding a new innerman...That Child of PROMISE a baby Christ which is the Elect thats y the woman is giving birth to the manchild that is gonna rule all nations....All Israel will be saved in the end but not all ISRAEL is the Promise Seed....Natural Israel is flesh and blood....But the Israel of God are Spirits the H.G. that is gonna be born in flesh and blood....I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh...By 1 spirit we are ALL baptised into the body of Christ Jew or Gentile...etc....Jesus said behold i send the PROMISE of my Father upon you which was baptism of the H.G. the main Elect....But the Church is the Elect LADY The bride....The Church and the H.G are gonna be married...But the Elect Lady is only a joint heir with the H.G the gift of God...But Jesus prayed that they might be one as we are one in John 17 As Him and the FATHER ARE 1...

Hello Guys i was just thinking about the Elect....Its the H.G. which is the ISRAEL OF God.... Romans 9:8..Flesh and blood are not the Children of God....Its only Spirits that are the real Children....Simply b/c the Elect is Spirit the Promise...The H.G.

....Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit...Which is the H.G. our new innerman....Our new heart and new spirit...We us sinners can only be a JOINT HEIR with the H.G. When we are bornagain...The Elect has to be born in us via the seed of Jesus...Which is the H.G. the Child of Promise....Its only the H.G that can show Judgement to the Gentiles and the Jews...As he is the Spirit of truth that is gona rule all nations.

Isaiah 41:1...Behold my servant in whom is my soul well pleased...I will put my spirit on him and he shall show judgement to the Gentiles....And Jesus tells us the gift of God is the H.G....Thus the H.G. wd have to be the Elect...We are just a joint heir with the H.G. That Child of Promise which is Spirit...There are 2 Israels 1 is earthy and 1 is heavenly...But God didn't sware by himself when he made the earthy Promise....God only swore by himself when he made the heavenly PROMISE...Which was multiplication of Christ SEED...The living word the H.G is that living being the Promise...The only Elect but we can be a joint heir with the H.G...Gal.4:1 Now i say unto you the heir as long as he is a Child differs nothin from servant till the time Appointed of the Father tho he BE LORD OF ALL...Thats the H.G. THAT IS LORD OF ALL THE ELECT...But he has to come as a Child our new born that results from the seed of Jesus...She brought forth a man child that is gonna rule all nations...Read ISAIAH 42...The Elect is the H.G. The only gift of God...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child (the H.G.) you will in no wise enter there in.....That Child of PROMISE..Natural Israel was the seed of men...But the Israel of God is via the seed of Christ Jesus the living word That N.C.

Psalm 82 "Ye are gods" (v. 6).

There is a notion these days that states that the Bible call us "little gods" and this Psalm is their evidence for that assumption.

The scriptures use this term to describe those judges or teachers of the law who were learned in the Torah but as this chapter points out judged for hypocricy.

Verse 3 shows a theme which is echoed in 1 Tim. 5 starting in verse 3; as well as James 1:27 which also refers to widows and orphans as to the definition of "true religion."

Verse 6 seems to suggest that these are all children of God; of the Most High. However; the context of most of this Psalm seems to suggest partiality to the wicked and therefore going against God's ordinances. This was a type of Pharasitical behavior that characterized those who would not escape the damnation of hell as quoted in Matthew 23:33. In one sense; of course all those in Israel of noble lineage could follow their family tree to prove that they were sons of Abraham. But again; not all were true children ( Romans 9:7). In one sense we were all created in God's image; more precisely now in the image of Adam. We were all put in the book of the living ( Psalm 69:28). That is different from the Book of Life; clearly. Perhaps the meaning remains ambiguous; the nation of Israel were chosen as a whole but only a remnant truly believed.

The Psalm is generally a call for men to be wise judges; but also ends with God being implored to act (verse 8). In any event every knee will bow someday to God and to His Christ (as quoted in Philippians AND Romans but also from God being represented in Isaiah 45:23).

God also allows wicked judgments to accomplish His purposes in the end; refining His people for instance.

Galatians 3:7 certainly could be an answer to your question. It isn't merely the physical descendants of Abraham who are true children of God ( Romans 9:7-10). God has a remnant that He saves from both the Old and New Dispensations ( 1 Kings 19); Matthew 7:21).

Keep in mind also the difference between physically being preserved for a time and spiritual deliverance. These are both realities for the children of God in reverse order. In New Testament times as with Old many are called but few chosen ( Matt. 22:14). There are other verses showing how some experience some of the benefits of being in God's presence ( Hebrews 6:4) are still not ultimately saved. The parable of the sower and the seed illustrate this fact showing how the seed of truth must eventually not only take root but produce fruit. God enables that His Spirit reproduces good fruit in our lives as evidence that it is indwelling; not merely an external event. Hence all true believers are "sealed" until the Day of Redemption ( Ephesians 4:30).

In God's Providence there are some; such as the 1/3 that are preserved "going through the fire" ( Zechariah 13:9) who appear to make it physically through the Tribulation to repopulate the earth in the Millennium. That will include the handful of Gentiles that make it; although man is said in general to be "rarer than the gold of Ophir" who makes it through that way ( Isaiah 13:12).

Thus; these verses and a multitude of others makes it imperative that we "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). I personally believe that through God's sanctification process we all must get beyond our initial excitement over being a new believer as well as the trials of persecution AND temptations of the world to be "tested and approved" as true believers as part of the process of chastisement as God's adopted children. ( Romans 12:2; etc). The end of all those called and chosen in Him is glorification (read all of Romans 8:30).

Hope this helps.

Sammi:

Christ constantly caught flack from his peers, he said we should expect the same thing.

You have ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED.

John 11:25 ....I am the resurrection, and the LIFE .....

Revelation 20:6 Blesses and HOLY is he that hath part in the first resurrection ......

1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling the light (the presence of God, Abraham's bosom) ....

1 Corinthians 15:53 ...this mortal SHALL put on IMMORTALITY ---Christ only hath immortality ---

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it (the new creation, the born again) a BODY (you are the BODY OF CHRIST) as it hath pleased him (the Father), and to every SEED his (the Father's) OWN BODY (Christ is the body of the Father).

Ephesians 4:4 ONE BODY (man, Christ being the FIRST among many BROTHERS, joint heirs), ONE SPIRIT

Ephesians 4:5 ONE GOD and Father of ALL, above ALL, and through ALL, and in you ALL.

John 16:8 And when he (the spirit of Christ) comes (it began at Pentecost, the feast of the FIRSTFRUITS) he will reprove the world of SIN .....

John 16:9 Of SIN because they BELIEVE NOT ON ME -----I am THE LIFE, man is my BODY, man does what the will of God causes him to do ---

Romans 9:21 Hath not the POTTER (the spirit of Christ) POWER OVER THE CLAY (the potter's body) of the SAME LUMP to make one vessel (the potter's body) to HONOUR and another to DISHONOUR.

Luke 16:6 The law and prophets were until John: SINCE THAT TIME, the kingdom of God is preached, and every man PRESSES INTO IT.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great WINEPRESS of the wrath of God.

We are the grapes of the vine, and we have to be PRESSED to become the NEW WINE ---this is a parable ---

God Bless You as HE leads you to all truth.

Alex1939...Why did Jesus have to shed his blood on Calvary ?..There are 2 facets to the Cross...1st was the blood of the lamb..Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...But there is a 2 nd facet which is multiplication of his seed ..Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the lil ones,..The babes and sucklings..A lil one is gonna become a 1000 and a small one a strong nation...An Israel of God...Spirits the H.G. PLURAL That was the great Promise i will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven...Thus the Messiah wd have to be a bridegroom always ready to sow his incorruptible seed in humanity as the field is the world,...John the Bap. said he that has the bride ( humanity ) is the bridegroom...God so loved the world...The Greeks wanted to see Jesus...And Jesus told them unless a seed falls in the ground it abides alone...But if it dies it will bring forth much fruit..Thus many Christ that was the promise I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven...Thus all men will see Jesus not just the Greeks...Not only will we see Jesus but we will see his seed the H.G. the Children of PROMISE...Thats what Jacob told Joseph...I had not thought to see thy face but lo God has showed me also your seed...Manasseh and Ephraim....Thats y Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. the Children of Promise the Gift of God...The Elect is the H.G. that will show judgement to Jews and Gentiles alike...Flesh and blood are not the Children, its only the Children of Promise the H.G. that are the real Children of God...Which is our new hearts and new spirits...We are just a joint heir with the H.G...That Christ in you via his seed the words of the book...Read Romans 9:8 kjv...Not all israel is Israel thus there is gonna be an Israel of God via the seed of Jesus..That New Covenant in his blood.. Psalms 48:6 Great fear fell on them there as a woman in birth pains..And they shall be afraid pangs n sorrows.

alex 1939-Hiya Neville...God has his eyes on a special ppl which are the seed of Jesus...That New CREATURE ,An Israel of God Nothin availeth anything in Christ Jesus but a New CREATURE..Which is the H.G. The Children of Promise which is the gift of God to every body...Natural Israel are not the Children of Promise...They must be born again of an incorruptible seed as Jesus tells Nic. a Jew and all men...Jew and Gentile alike...Not Circumcision nor uncircumcision but only that New CREATURE.

..... Romans 9:8 That is They which are the Children of the flesh, These are not the Children of God...But the Children of Promise are counted for that good seed...Who are the Children of Promise ?...The H.G. Spirits as Jesus said that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit...Our new innerman is our fruit unto God the H.G...Behold mine elect in whom my soul is well pleased I have put my spirit on him he shall shew judgement unto the Gentiles...Its only the H.G. the gift of God that is Gods elect...These things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes and sucklings Jesus offspring...The contents of the book his words of LIFE...An Israel of God...The regeneration of the H.G....Is Jesus generation..Behold me and the Children the lord has given me...ok lemme go

alex1939....Hiya Neville.... Matthew 19:28...Blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION when the son of man is revealed...The last days when the book is opened and the seals are loosed.. that book that he wrote with his own blood...Thats when they all sang that new song ( the new Covenant) when Jesus will regenerate himself with his seed sown in humanity the contents of the book (words) of that book...Rev.12:5 is a picture of Regeneration of Christ...Her Child is the H.G. The Promise

..... Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness that we have done but by his mercy he saved us...By the washing and REGENERATION of the H.G.

.....That last generation is his (Jesus) GENERATION...Thats when the woman becomes pregnant for his Children, The Children of Promise,The H.G. are the Children of PROMISE....Our New Heart n New Spirit...As that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit ...

....Which is the H.G. The Israel of God...That Heavenly Jacob..Read Romans 9:8 KJV

Prayer: Part 4.

Perseverance in prayer. In light of the previous discourses; the proper attitude toward God is paramount. This is why certain charismatics or anyone else "declaring" blessings is on thin ice. God blesses who He chooses and curses as well; we can see this principle in Romans 9:18. Genesis 49:25 states how God blesses universally for those who FEAR the Lord. Clearly fear of the Lord is necessary for the beginning of understanding ( Prov. 9:10 and many other texts).

The basic thought here is that if a motivation is wrong clearly one can spend all day pounding the table whether alone or with a whole crowd and not expect results. Once we can establish that we aren't aware of wrong motives; then we still stand the chance that God is going to say "no" to the request. What is fairly certain is that He will reveal either a different answer to the prayer; or He will after some length of time answer it. One fairly clear indicator of which prayer we are asking for is whether if He delayed it 20 years if we would even want to see it happen; case in point someone who we want to marry; how will they look like or act a couple decades later? If God answered it at that time we'd better not pin our hopes on superficial things alone that pass by; but on eternal character issues. Oftentimes I have found after years of time an answer just seems to occur when we have forgotton about certain issues. We should certainly be encouraged from examples of individuals praying for family members to be saved for decades where it finally happens. We should rejoice when a dictatorship is finally overthrown after a great amount of time such as Communism in Russia; or a breakthrough such as in with abortion when it can finally see a downturn after countless millions in the US have been slaughtered.

Fact Five: We should focus prayer on our enemies at least as much as our friends. It is hard to find fault for those praying for their enemies to be saved.

Thanks 'Prosperity'. To answer your three questions:

a. Romans 9:3-5. Paul says what he did in this portion because he was speaking about his brethren by blood, i.e. Israel - not brethren by faith in Christ. Here in these chapters, Paul is relating what the Jews should have gained, if they had accepted Christ, but had lost their position because they wanted to hold to the Law & not come to Christ (which can only be by faith). So the Roman believers, & there could have been believing Jews amongst them as well, needed to hear this message that salvation has come to them because of the "fall" of the Jews & acceptance by God of Jew & Gentile through His Son.

b. Romans was written to believers in Rome ( Romans 1:6-8); the Corinthian Epistles to the Church/saints at Corinth ( 1 Corinthians 1:2); Ephesians to the saints in Ephesus ( Ephesians 1:1); and the Thessalonian Epistles to the Church in Thessalonica ( 1 Thessalonians 1:2-4). So, in the Churches there would have been the Jewish diaspora as well as Gentiles, and together Paul considered them as the Church, the beloved of God.

c. I see no problem with the content of Paul's letters to the largely Gentile Churches there. It's as if I preached in a Pakistani Church of what God was doing in Pakistan among Muslims, also about believers living the Spirit-filled life, & the need to share their faith, & also that my heart continued to be for the salvation of Muslims. Would I be wrong to share that so that the Church might be informed & encouraged to pray? So Paul was sharing with the Roman Church that one day all Israel will bend their knee to Jesus & be saved. Shouldn't the Gentiles rejoice in this wonderful time of salvation of the Jews, through whom the Lord Jesus came & ministered to? But if any today in the Church despise Israel, then maybe, yes, they could take umbrage to such news.

It is true that the Roman Epistle was directed primarily to believing Gentiles, but when we read the whole letter, we see that Paul wanted to bring out the doctrine of Justification by Faith and its ramifications - and this he did in a systematic manner unlike his other epistles. And if one is to properly handle such an important doctrine, then one would have to appeal to where it all began: with God's chosen people, Israel.

The Law was given to them ("the law of righteousness", as Paul calls it in Romans 9:31), but they failed to apprehend it "because they sought it not by faith" (v32). But the Gentiles on the other hand, "attained to righteousness" (v30), not having been given the Law, because they attained it by faith.

Had Israel found righteousness by faith (i.e. through Christ, Who ultimately was their "stumbling stone" (v33)), maybe much of what Paul wrote in Romans chapters 9 to 11, would need not be shared with the Roman believers. But what Paul did share, serves to show how Israel, who was in such a privileged blessed position, lost it; and their loss was the gain of the Gentiles. The Roman believers can now better appreciate the Gospel brought to them & the salvation received through Christ, when they know that "through their (the Jews) fall, salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy" ( Romans 11:11). To a Church that neither Paul nor Peter founded, this was an important history & spiritual lesson to the believers: why the Gospel had to be brought 'first to the Jew & then to the Greek' ( Romans 1:16), and that it is by faith alone we all stand (Jew & Gentile) & not by the "works of the law" ( Romans 9:32). From this brief explanation, I hope you can appreciate Paul's need to share this part of Jewish spiritual history in his discourse with the gentiles.

Questions to Sincere Bible Believers (2)

1) If Paul is speaking to The actual Gentiles(non Israelites), why does he state this;

- Romans 9:3-4

- Romans 11:1

- Romans 11:25-27

That's a good question Dgjot, as sometimes we can misapply Scriptures when they speak to people in various cultures, times & situations. To answer your question, I believe that Jeremiah 29:11 does apply to the one in Christ as well.

My reasoning on this is: whenever God the Father or His Son speak to 'people' through His Word, I always ask, 'who are They speaking to, what is the matter about, and what is the relevance to any other people or ourselves?'

Briefly, when matters relate specifically to Israel (e.g. the Law, the Sacrifices, to go & conquer lands or enemies, prophecies concerning them/judgements/punishments, etc.), then I read those verses as given to them, but for my knowledge & learning about the Person of the Godhead. But if verses are directed to Israel (such as the one you quoted), do we see the Character of God & His expressions of love, concern, guidance, & help to both Israel (the elect of God) & in the believer in Christ (having the faith needed to be God's elect: Titus 1:1)?

Israel, having received that special love of God & His intervention in their lives in so many ways, ought to have been shining beacons to the uncivilized idolatrous world, but they chose to spurn God's Love & to reject His Christ, thereby losing their position before God. Why? Because the righteousness in the Law was not sought by faith ( Romans 9:30-32). Had they believed God & sought Him out in real love & faith, the Truth of Jeremiah 29:11-14 would have been their ongoing experience. But as Israel was cut out of the olive tree ( Romans 11), that we who have come to God IN FAITH might be engrafted into it, the promise in Jeremiah & all the promises in the Bible as pertaining to God's people (Jew & Gentile) in whom He delights, must also be applicable to us.

So, you can take much comfort in that verse & all verses that give you God's Promises: His Seal is within you, His Love is upon you & His Arms surround you and nothing can separate you from that love.

God does not hate humans. It is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. I understand the verse in question. The term hate in Romans 9:13 does not hold the same definition as we take it. GOD HATES SIN. If we read the story of jacob, and esau. Esau was well loved by his father but willing to give away his birthright for a bowl of soup. His desire to eat meant more than the blessing of his birth father and the blessings from the heavenly father. Our Heavenly Father LOVES us to no end. JOHN 3:16, tells of this great love. He also is a righteous judge, and rewards us for our good deeds and punishes us for our bad. If God doesn't discipline us then we are bastards and not sons. We cannot know the depth of God's love, because we love conditionally. He loves Unconditionally.

I hope this helps

Hi GiGi,

Neither do I get that God would hate what He would redeem, for this would be to do evil that good may come, which is in direct opposition to the principle Paul established as he was guided by the Holy Spirit, that we should NOT do evil that good may come, for fear of just damnation (wrath) from God: Romans 3:8.

In regards to God hating humans, I'm certain you are aware of Malichi 1:3 which I believe Paul was referring to "As it is written" in Romans 9:13.

You stated, "I think it says that it is because of His loving kindness that He does nor destroy humans because of their sinfulness." To this I would suggest Matthew 10:28.

I'm inclined to think hate is hate just as love is love, although each can appear in different forms, which is the only thing hate and love have in common. As I've mentioned numerous times, Love can only create Itself and nothing but Itself. In the same manner, hate produces hate, meaning also that it cannot create Love. There is no compromise between the two. Actually, the two cannot even communicate with each other. We tend to think that fear as well as Love can be communicated and also be shared. Yet this this is not so real as it may appear; those who communicate fear are promoting attack, and attack always breaks communication, making communication impossible. How is it possible that God or The Prince of Peace have peace in condemnation, attack, wrath, vengeance, damnation, etc? If this is God, then what kind of unimaginable monster is the evil devil. Or if this is God, then its opposite must be Love, full of mercy,compassion, light, joy, and forgiveness?? This is simple logic.

Outside the two scriptures I mentioned about the Bible saying that God hates parts of His Creation, I'm not aware at this time where it says this anywhere else. Once is enough. Yet, there are many biblical passages in Scripture that reflect hate and darkness from God. I don't know if I will ever be able to accept this.

Out of characters

God Is.

Hi Carol,

According to Scripture, God does not love everyone, which is difficult for me to grasp. I refer you to Romans 9:13. Sorry, but these are God's words.

Part 1

Hellow Antony.

Although I don't agree with you about the church going through the great tribulation (but this is another topic), I agree with you about those 7 churches in Revelation

Notice. In verse 1:7 says "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia...".

Now Jesus says to John to write His words and send them to those 7 churces. If the churches are symbolic for the history of the church through the ages and not litteral, just imagine say the pastor of Sardis who maybe was doing well in his ministry to receive a message from Jesus telling him that he is dead. He will definately die of heart attack. The pastor of Ephessus? If he had not fallen from his first love to read Jesus telling hin that? Imagine if Philadelphia was not doing well and Jesus congratulated them? How about Antipas the martyr, was he symbolic for something? It is obvious that those churches were litterally existing at that time and Jesus adressed some issues there, He knows they have to be corrected.

But the problem ia always initiating from what Jesus said to Philadelphians."Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

But what is it meant by "the world" and "the earth"?

Colossians 1:6 "Which is come unto you, as it is in ALL THE WORLD; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, ...:" also verse 23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and WHICH WAS PREACHED TO EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS UNDER HEAVEN; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" Romans 9:17-18 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went INTO ALL THE EARTH, and their words unto ENDS OF THE WORLD