Discuss Romans 9 Page 3

John 17, Psalms 139, Romans 11, Romans 8,

James 1:5

Hopefully these are helpful

what is predestination? are some people just not to be saved or did does Jesus know before who will choose to serve and who won't .

Does God use vessels of dishonour and nations to perform his will?

I believe so, here's a few reasons why

Romans 9:18-23.

Habakkuk 1:5-11. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.

For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.

They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.

Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.

They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.

And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.

Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.

Another question asked is there such things as demon possession?

Here's what I believe and I'm not sure if it classifies as demon possession.

I believe there's ministers of Satan.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15.

These are amongst us everywhere we go and can be identified as tares. Matthew 13:36-42.

EVIL SPIRITS.

Satan is the prince of the world and he influences the flesh. the natural man. and the nations.

1 John 4:1-3.

These tares may also be seen in Jude 1:1-25.

You can't always identify these tares with their Doctrine, some of their Doctrine sounds very familiar, but what they "seem" to believe in doesn't humble them and in areas of baring fruit they seems to be lacking. This causes a closer look at their theology and you find them taking a sharp left on the path.

1 John 2:19.

God bless."

Does God use vessels of dishonour and nations to perform his will?

I believe so, here's a few reasons why

Romans 9:18-23.

Habakkuk 1:5-11. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.

For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.

They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.

Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.

They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.

And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.

Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.

Another question asked is there such things as demon possession?

Here's what I believe and I'm not sure if it classifies as demon possession.

I believe there's ministers of Satan.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15.

These are amongst us everywhere we go and can be identified as tares. Matthew 13:36-42.

EVIL SPIRITS.

Satan is the prince of the world and he influences the flesh. the natural man. and the nations.

1 John 4:1-3.

These tares may also be seen in Jude 1:1-25.

You can't always identify these tares with their Doctrine, some of their Doctrine sounds very familiar, but what they "seem" to believe in doesn't humble them and in areas of baring fruit they seems to be lacking. This causes a closer look at their theology and you find them taking a sharp left on the path.

1 John 2:19.

God bless.

Hiya Robert GBU .....Lemme tell you that we are now under a new COVENANT by the blood of Jesus....Being a Jew now means we must be bornagain by Promise....Which is the H.G. a Spiritual being....Its only the H.G. that is born by Promise ,Only he is the seed of Jesus....That Promise seed....Its exactly like Romans 9:8 ... says....The Children of the flesh are not the real Children of God its only the Children of PROMISE that are counted for that goodly seed....The seed of Jesus, as his Words are his seeds...If you are not bornagain by his SEED THE WORDS OF God ....He neva knew you thus you will not bring forth any fruit unto God which is the H.G. that Child of Promise....Remember in Acts 1:4 Jesus said behold i send the PROMISE OF MY FATHER upon you which was baptism of the H.G. a birth of a baby Christ in them....That Child of Promise...And it was also new Jerusalem and mt Sion the city of that great King...Gbu Robert.....There is a Child in your future.....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil CHILD YOU WILL IN NO WISE ENTER THERE IN...

Hi Robert. Was there a particular verse in Romans chapter 11 that leads you to believe that being a Jew is a matter of choice? We are indeed "all seeds of Noah", but not all of us are descended from one of Noah's sons, Shem then many others through to Jacob.

Here are few Scriptures that tell us of this special people, chosen of God, to be His Own: Deuteronomy 7:6; Deuteronomy 14:2; 1 Chronicles 16:13; Psalm 89:3,4; Psalm 105:6, & many more. So Israel, because of their rejection of their Messiah & depending on the Law (to gain righteousness - Romans 10:3,4) have been rejected (cut out of the olive tree). But those amongst them who believe & also from the Gentiles who have turned to Christ, are God's true Israel ( Romans 9:6,7). Maybe, you're thinking of the true Israel that belongs to God.

Hi.

This is not an attempt to start a new thread on demonic spirits or evil spirits.

I just wanted to share just a few scriptures on them and why I believe they exist and are amongst us.

Their mission is to lure you away or distort the truth in DIVERSE WAYS!! ( Their Doctrine may sound a lot like yours, IF they believe the Doctrine of truth they will bare fruit. )

1 John 4:1-3.

1 John 4:4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD.

Matthew 12:43-45.

Jude 1:4.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matthew 13:37-40.

Notice who planted the tares?

I believe God with his sovereignty and foreknowledge uses vessels of dishonour to accomplish his will.

Romans 9:17-23. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

HATH NOT THE POTTER POWER OVER THE CLAY, OF THE SAME LUMP TO MAKE ONE VESSEL UNTO HONOUR, AND ANOTHER UNTO DISHONOUR?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the VESSELS OF WRATH FITTED TO DESTRUCTION:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Also notice

Habakkuk 1:5-11.

God bless.

Henry

Thank you for your thoughts.

I believe the Bible, every word.

You said,

"In reference to any temptation or provoking remember James 1:13

God can't be

Tempted neither tempts he any man."

I believe James 1:13.

I also believe my Lord when He taught us how to pray saying to our Heavenly Father,

And lead us not into temptation ( Luke 11:4) ( Matthew 6:13)

And when God told Moses He would harden Pharaoh's heart that Pharaoh would not let the children of Israel go( Exodus 10:27)

And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. ( Exodus 7:13)

The Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart until the destroying angel came and killed all the first born of Egypt.

And the Lord did so to shew his power by Pharaoh. ( Romans 9:17)

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. ( Romans 9:18)

Henry, why would our Lord tell us to pray to our Heavenly Father saying,

...and lead us not into temptation?

Why would the God of Isreal harden Pharaoh's heart until He destroyed all the first born of Egypt?

If the Lord does not tempt us, how did He harden Pharaoh's heart?

Do you see the contradictions?

Nevertheless, God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and, whom he will he hardeneth.

Amen Luke.

That's easily seen in scripture.

The Church didn't bring on the man child "Christ". Revelation 12:5. and Revelation 19:15-16.

Christ brought on the Church!!

Here's just two of many.

Matthew 16:18.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11.

As you said Israel is the woman and she brought on the man child who is Christ. " Romans 9:4-5."

Also Revelation 12:1. parallels with Genesis 37:9-10. It gives a description of who the Sun and the Moon and the twelve stars are.

Now hold on to your hat!

God bless.

Amen Fred.

There's a different relationship "in Christ," that the law couldn't bring,

Romans 9:31-32

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? BECAUSE THEY SOUGHT IT NOT BY FAITH, BUT AS IT WERE BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;....

Romans 10:5-9.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Conclusion!!

Romans 11:7-36.

What a great ending!! God bless.

Part 2.

Please notice what's highlighted.

Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)

According as he hath chosen us

( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:

So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.

God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.

Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.

Example: Isaiah 46:10.

1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.

I hope this helps

God bless.

Hi Mark.

Part 1.

I Agree with Brother Chris "God knowing beforehand the choices that we make & the way our lives will unfold" and the Gospel goes out to all, the invitation is for all, but not all will respond!!

1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

Galatians 3:22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Ephesians 1:12-13. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So let's make it clear

Romans 10:8-15 is what's relevant.

But look at verse 16. "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Here's my thought on this that I'm sure can be improved on.

Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Here we have God's way that He Elected..

Next we have "WHEN" God's way was Elected.

Ephesians 1:4. According as he hath chosen us ( IN ) him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of THE WORLD...

You may find it easier to understand if we look at it as the church or the body of Christ instead of Individuals.

See part 2.

Predestination. Focusing on the book of John.

Introduction: I am attempting after years of study to give a proper examination of the doctrine of election; associated with the 5 points of Calvin; or what some call the "grace gospel." Ultimately; this is to demonstrate that we cannot save ourselves; it requires Divine intervention. From my viewpoint; this does NOT negate human choices as it were as God in this fallen world always has worked around the circumstances that even His saints have lived in who often should know better; not to mention the kings and those in authority. It is not the constraints on men in this lifetime that should be the focus; although there are limits to God's patience but it is the will of God which is accomplished no matter how much Satan and wicked men work against Him. Thus; He allows the sin of a nation to come to the full before judgment ( Gen. 15:16). He has set times and seasons; and is indeed the Alpha and Omega ( Rev. 21:6-7).

Before getting into scriptures specifically in the Book of John (this forum isn't meant for more than an overview rather than an extensive study) which prove God predestines all those who will come to the faith and hence be saved I wanted to make a few points. First of all; the argument of "what about those who have never heard the Gospel" is not as solid as it may seem. To assume that only those who are in a society that teaches Biblical truth to recieve it; and assumes that others who don't hear it are left out need only go to Abraham being called OUT of Ur of the Chaldees to the land of Promise and follow the true God.

The Exodus took His people to a new land; but only a remnant of Israel was true Israel ( Romans 9:24-29). This is also demonstrated in the O.T. We see the same principle in Isaiah 10:20-23 for the future of the nation of Israel; and also with the church ( Matt. 13:24-30).

Finally; there is a process which determines or proves our spiritual condition set forth for all men.

Brother Daniel:

As Paul travelled to Damascus he had not intentions of being saved, but it was his will that he was to kill Christ's children.

God FORCED Paul; to cause Paul's will, to BECOME GOD's WILL.

Paul is our EXAMPLE.

God's WILL, will be done.

What ever God has purposed for you, WILL BE DONE, and you have no say.

Did Jacob and Esau have a choice?

Did King Cyrus have a choice?

Did the King of Assyria have a choice?

Did Pharaoh have a choice?

No, the words were spoken of the path thy would take before the foundations of the world were laid.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, I have CHOSEN YOU ....

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER OVER the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel of HONOUR, and another unto DISHONOUR.

MAN teaches FREE WILL, God is the KING of the Kingdom, and the KING'S WILL RULES ALL.

God Bless You.

Hello David:

Yes I understood the same way you do. I just wanted to ensure that we saved as many people on this site. That is why it is important to take time to explain based on the Bible. The Book of Acts is a transitional book. Luke did a magnificent job inspired by God writing the chain of events after Jesus Christ died on the cross. Peter and the rest of the Apostles concentrated on preaching to the Jews, but when they have rejected it three times Paul went to the Gentiles. But Jews and Gentiles today can be saved by the mystery of the Gospel of Paul 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. We are saved by grace through faith. We are baptized by trusting on Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection meaning trusting on the blood of Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus already went to the most Holiest of Holy to sprinkle His own blood as the Jews did on earth. So anybody today can be saved by that blood. Once you are saved, the mysteries are revealed by the Holy Spirit. We are the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, knowing Christ in you.

Romans 16:25; Galatians 1:9-12; Galatians 2:1-14; Acts 15:11; Roman's 2:16; 1 Peter 1:10-12; 1Peter 1:18-20;

1Corinthians 4:1

Colossians 1:18; Colossians 1:24-27; Ephesians 1:13; Romans 8:9-11; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Corinthians 3:16 and many more I can share. So knowing we are saved, we know the mystery of the rapture. 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 1 Timothy 2:7

Revelation 3:3. We are watching and praying with thanksgiving.

We are on the last days and we want all to be saved. We are here on earth to fulfill God's purpose - To trust God and to do God's will. Nothing of anything good we do. Rejoice evermore! I am so happy to communicate with you David. Have a blessed weekend.

What is sin? The first thoughts that come to mind are the obvious outer symptoms through one's behaviors when something is manifest such as anger. The next level is the thoughts and intentions of the heart; which caused an outer veneer of obedience to the law with the Pharisees; but much deeper transgressions with religious exercised in such a way that they could still get what they want (for instance; when they would be covetous disregarding the needs of their families) shown in Mark 7:6-9 and other verses speaking of their greed. The same principle exists for evil thoughts that lead to actions such as lust; adultery; fornication etc. ( Matt. 15:19).

The significant factor often missing from these analogies is breaching of a covenant. This is why those; for instance, who have remarried without scriptural permission are very hypocritical focusing on others who are living together who weren't under such a covenant. But marriage today is viewed at the human level as a contract; rather than a covenant with the eternal God between one man and woman that is to be permanent for life; and which encompasses vows from each party (at least traditionally) implying the penalties should such a pact be broken. This is similar to God's covenant people in the nation of Israel; where God had called them out from bondage. Their knowledge being present while the miracles occurred and seeing God's providence after the Exodus in the desert made them more responsible when they fell into practices of the pagan nations.

But; as scripture states not all Israel was true Israel ( Romans 9:6-7). There are many verses where emphasis is placed on keeping vows in the O.T.

Finally; anything we know is right and fail to do is sin ( James 4:17-loosly translated). We should at all times keep our commitments unless it becomes impossible not to go against scriptural conduct in our lives. We need also to be careful to do things of obedience out of love of God not self promotion.

I've gone over Romans 9:22-23. First, in Verse 22, the word "fitted" is what is called the middle voice in Greek. That is, the vessel itself made itself a condition of a vessel for destruction. Nowhere in the text does it ever say God makes a good vessel for a vessel of destruction.

Just like Judas Iscariot, he didn't become evil and filled with Satan because God says "You come here, I need to put Satan in you because I need somebody to be an evil disciple." The bible says he was evil already, and that Jesus literally chose, and that's what He said in John Chapter 6, "Haven't I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a demon." He needed somebody who was evil to fulfil the role of an evil disciple. But Judas was already evil.

So a vessel fitted for destruction, and the word fitted means that the vessel conditions itself to be fitted for destruction. God doesn't do it. But once it's fitted for destruction, and it is a vessel of destruction, God uses it. He uses both honorable vessels and dishonorable vessels. He'll use them both for His glory and for His honor out of His choice.

Proverb 16:4 does not lead me to believe that God predestines anyone to heaven or hell. It is true that God creates all things, and he uses both good and evil people for His purposes. Evil people are not evil because God made them evil. Evil is what they have chosen for themselves.

The belief that God predestines people to heaven or hell would negate so many verses that show us that salvation is offered up and given to every single person who calls out to the Lord to have mercy on them and to save them. Even John 3:16, the verse everyone knows, that word "whosoever" would mean every single person.

Something else to consider. If a person repents of their sin, surrenders their life to Christ, and is a true follower of Jesus Christ their entire life, but God has already "predestined" that person to hell, wouldn't that go against every doctrine that speaks of salvation? Vice Versa?

Hello, thank you for this reply! it really helped me understand some verses. But what about verses such as John 15:16, or Proverbs 16:4 and Romans 9:22-23? these verses seem to say that God predestines us from my understanding.

Interesting discussions. I take you to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that you all familiar with.

Moreover brethren I declare unto you the Gospel, which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand. By which also ye are saved, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED IN VAIN. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received. HOW that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. And that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

You noticed Paul said "I lie not" on the very first verse. Apostle Paul is the last Apostle chosen by our very own Jesus Christ, who revealed the most important thing we Gentiles need to do. And Jews can benefit if they would read between the lines. There is no other way folks. I know you will say you already know. I cannot emphasized you have to separate flesh from your spirit because we walk only in Spirit. We have work to do for whatever time is left. We are so blessed we have it relatively easy in our lifetime. King David knew it and Apostle Paul was spiritually jealous. Use it wisely. Details are in the book of Romans to Philemon. Read and execute what the will of God for you. Most especially, Love your spouse deeply and rejoice evermore. Agape to all.

Romans 9 supplies the answer. More specifically Romans 9: 9to 12. It is God's sovereign choice as he says in verse 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad but in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls. So the answer based upon these verses is that God did the election which means the individual had no choice in the matter. Remember God chose Jacob over Esau before either one had done good or bad. Which means no choice was given to either to make the decision for Christ or the decision to reject Christ. God does the choosing. Now verse 14 on down you will see that Paul actually answers the question of whether or not God is unjust. Consider that all men born are born into sin then all men are worthy of damnation. However, the fact that God chooses to show his Mercy in granting salvation to some and not to others does not make him unfair. For all men are worthy of eternal damnation. But the fact that he chooses to save some just demonstrates his Mercy not Injustice. For to give man what he deserves is justice. To save some from that Justice is Mercy. Study Romans 9 and it should become much more clear to you. Hope this helps.

First understand that in ancient times, if you wanted to give your inheritance to someone other than him, the language is, so and so( The firstborn) I gave hated. So and so, (The person now receiving the inheritance, or the inheritance of the firstborn.) I have loved.

Romans 9:11 makes it clear that this "change of inheritance" (I.e. the Gentiles receiving the foremost position in Gods eyes and not the nation of the Jews), and thus Essau losing his position as the firstborn, had nothing at all to do with his actions as the decision was made prior to the birth of the twins.

What Essau did or didn't do had nothing to do with anything other than God illustrating the fact that being in the firstborn position, as Israel was, is a decision God made. Not to condemn Essau, but to illustrate His extension of mercy to those who didn't deserve it. Israel, and Essau both, did deserve the judgement through there own actions, LATTER ON, but the decision to graft in the Gentiles, and give the inheritance that was due to the Israelites as disintegrate Essau was made before those actions were in any way justified. In Gods foreknowledge He KNEW the choices that would be made. And God knew that by Israels rejection, and thus offering salvation/mercy to the Gentiles, He could then offer salvation and mercy back to Israel. Rom 11:11-24.

Note: there is no evidence that Essau did not repent of His sins and didn't come to God. Just as there is no evidence that quite a few from the nation of Israel did not turn to Christ, and even more from that nation will be grafted into the kingdom even in revelation.

Genesis 27:41,

Esau was also called Edom, Genesis 36:1, please read: Obadiah 1, whole chapter

Note: Obadiah 1:10-14 "For the violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off forever. In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou was one of them. But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossways, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress."

Obadiah 1:6, Malachi 1, Deuteronomy 2:22, Jeremiah 49:7-22, Judges 11:17, 1Kings 11:14-25, Ezekiel 25:12-14,

Romans 9:13-15,

Hopefully these are helpful also, towards more understanding of why GOD said Esau HE hated.

Henry:

Genesis 19:37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites until this day,

Genesis 19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-am-mi: the same is the father or the children of Ammon unto this day.

God uses men and women for his purpose and his pleasure.

God used Lot and his daughters to bring forth two nations.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another vessel to dishonour?

John 18:38 Pilate said unto him, What is truth?

Lot and his daughters died, probably not knowing, truth.

God Bless you.

I've understood it to be similar to Simon called Peter: Matthew 4:18, Matthew 10:2, different than Acts 8:9, & Luke, Acts 10:18, Acts 13:1, Acts 13:9, Acts 14:2, notice in Acts, the same book, there are multiple names referenced even a wind, Acts 27:14, Acts 27:8, Hebrews 11:18,

Matthew 1:6 Jesus called Christ, John 4:25, Luke 6:15, John 1:42, John 11:16, not Colossians 4:11,

Romans 2:17, Romans 7:3, same supposed writer as Acts , also Romans 9:26

Matthew 26:14, Luke 23:33, John 19:13, John 19:17, Acts 6:9, Revelation 11:8,

Revelation 12:9,

Luke 2:4, Luke 8:2, John 21:2, different than Acts 9:11,

Acts 1:23, Acts 9:36,

Colossians 3:15, 1John 3:1,

Hopefully these are all helpful in your study

Psalms 119:78 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.

Psalms 119:46 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.

2 Kings 8:11 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

And he settled his countenance stedfastly, until he was ashamed: and the man of God wept.

Hosea 4:19 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

The wind hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their sacrifices.

Romans 9:33 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2 Corinthians 9:4 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.

2 Timothy 1:16 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:

Isaiah 45:17 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Job 11:3 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed?

Romans 5:5 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

This is an additional message in reply to Shirley's question:



A more appropriate response to Your question that reveals and affirms the Sovereignty of the Almighty GOD:

Romans 9:15

For He says to Moses: "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

So just know that no one will enter Heaven without GOD'S Approval, just as no one leaves this Earth without GOD'S Permission.

A more appropriate response to Your question that reveals and affirms the Sovereignty of the Almighty GOD:

Romans 9:15

For He says to Moses: "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

Note:. In reference to Shirley's question that was submitted hours ago

A more appropriate response to Your question that reveals and affirms the Sovereignty of the Almighty GOD:

Romans 9:15

For He says to Moses: "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

Separated: Exodus 33:16, Leviticus 20:24, Numbers 6:2, Numbers 16:9, Deuteronomy 10:8, 1Chronicles 23:13, 1Chronicles 25:1, Galatians 1:15,

Numbers 8:14, 1Kings 8:53, Jeremiah 1:5, Matthew 25:32-41, Luke 6:22, Acts 13:2, 2Corinthians 6:17, Hebrews 7:26, Matthew 22:1-14, 1Peter 2:9,

Romans 9:21-24,

Hopefully these are helpful

Dear "Candie joe", The confession that we all have become a new human being, born again is so important to all of us. Please speak it out loud Come forth in Jesus Name! Seek out believers who profess Jesus as the Son of God and that we now live in the kingdom of the Holy Spirit. For Jesus Christ died for mankind and God raised Him up again. So death has no power anymore, you, we live in Jesus. Amen Romans 9:14-29