Discuss Romans 9 Page 6

Sister Loretta:

Romans 8:20 For the creature (CREATION) was made (by God through Christ) subject to vanity (to sin), NOT WILLINGLY (creation had no say in the matter). BUT by REASON (total knowledge and wisdom) of HIM (GOD) who hath subjected the same (CREATION) in HOPE (redemption and deliverance by the WORKS of God through Christ),

Romans 8 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature (CREATION) WAITETH (till the second resurrection) for the manifestation (first resurrection) of the sons of God (The SEED of GOD).

Romans 8:21 But the creature (CREATION) ITSELF also shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (the GRAVE) into the GLORIOUS LIBERTY of the children of God.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the FULNESS OF TIMES he might gather IN ONE all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:

Acts 3:21 Whom the HEAVEN (Son of God) must receive until the TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since the world begin.

John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is IN HEAVEN.

Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery...CHRIST IN YOU...

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:23 And that he might make know the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he hath afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 11:31 Even so have these now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Sister Dianne, food for thought:

You commented, God is perfect he cannot produce something not perfect that's where I think in between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 the rebellion in heaven could have happened and lucifer came down and screwed things with the other angels that rebelled.

I thought God, through Jesus, created ALL THINGS. Since he created lucifer and lucifer sinned, then lucifer wasn't created perfect. This is what other verses say:

Romans 8:20 Because the creature (creation) ITSELF was made subject to VANITY, NOT WILLINGLY ..

Romans 9:21 Hath the potter not power over the clay, or the SAME LUMP to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour.

God' word says he did not make everything perfect in the beginning, BUT he through the REBIRTH of everyone by SPIRIT will make ALL THINGS PERFECT. IN HIS appointed time; eternity has a lot of time.

Maybe Revelations account of Satan falling from heaven represents something different and at another time.

Revelation 1:3 ...for the TIME IS AT HAND

Doesn't seen those words would apply to something that occurred back in Genesis.

Revelation 1:1 ....An SIGNIFIED it ...

Sounds like Revelation represents; through WORD SYMBOLS, things that mean something other than

what a dictionary would define them as.

Matthew 12:38 But if I CAST OUT devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God (Christ in you) is come unto you.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven... (maybe heaven SIGNIFIES something)

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was CAST OUT (of heaven)..

Jesus said he cast Satan out of YOU

Revelation said out of heaven. Could heaven SIGNIFY YOU.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a NEW HEAVEN (where CHRIST IN YOU, dwells). SIGNIFIED.

Food for thought, the Spirit reveals.

Brother Rick: God is ACCOUNTABLE for his CREATION. This is why before the foundations of the world were laid, Christ was predestinated to REDEEM creation.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:19 Thou will say unto me, why then doth he yet find fault (why does he say we sin when he is causing everything)? For who has resisted his will (no one has resisted his will, most do not BELIEVE ( Philippians 2:13) he is causing them to do HIS WILL)?

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel of HONOUR and another unto DISHONOUR?

Because creation was made this way ( Romans 8:20) by God, and God is ACCOUNTABLE to his CREATION, he has SENT his SON to REDEEM CREATION.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness OF TIMES he might gather together IN ONE all things IN CHRIST .......

Man says God isn't going to be accountable to creation, but instead condemn them to Hell. God's word says he will be accountable to creation.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father SENT the SON to be SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.

BY DEFINITION you CANNOT be the saviour of the world; without, SAVING THE WORLD.

Jeremiah Chapter 18

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Isaiah 29:16

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Isaiah 64:8

But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Romans 9:21

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (Read the chapter)

Mishael comment: I know in prophesy that Israel is the clay, but so are we.

The Lord is always working on us. In Isaiah 29:16, have you ever felt yourself being molded, pinched, a lump sliced off; and you almost cried, Lord what are You doing?

Ever felt like you were baking in the fire of Gods Love, for you?

Sometimes I wonder, "what is it (me) going to look like when you are finished with this piece?"

1 Thessalonians 5:11

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Romans 14:19

Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Thank you Michael for that response. As you may anticipate, I refute practically everything you've stated about the Almighty God. I believe the fundamental flaw in your argument is that "God is to be held responsible for the origin of evilnessthat evil is in Jehovah's nature & expressed by His actions". I bring up three areas to consider:

a. if there is any evil within God, even a speck of it, then whatever goodness is there becomes tainted with evil. And this effectively makes the whole evil. So even the goodness of God is no longer pure but impure. I think you're saying that God is wholly evil without any goodness in Him. If that's the case, then what Scriptures are you reading that show this & what Scriptures are you avoiding that show His Goodness to man. God can't be good & evil simultaneously. You would need to cite a couple of examples.

b. the origin of evil does not come from God but from Satan. Ezekiel 28:12-15 speaks of the King of Tyrus, but clearly the content of those verses point to Satan, the spirit indwelling the king. Satan was "perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." God didn't create evil in that cherub, evil was found in him. Evil can enter when we are given the power of choice: Satan fell, Adam & Eve fell, & all who are born with such flesh.

c. what you've read in the Bible that presents God with an evil component in Himself is likely man's own belief of what is wrong or unfair & not from Truth. As created beings we might demand rightness from the Creator, when in fact the Creator has the right to demand of us & to do with us as He pleases: Romans 9:19-23. Are you then unmindful of this Truth of the Sovereignty & Wisdom of God? You've mentioned Eden & the temptations given to Jesus; why would you think that God instigated such things for evil? Yes, He could have prevented them but that certainly does not indicate any wrongdoing. We can never be in the place of God & He doesn't reveal all.

Hi Moyinoluwa.

It's a lot to the Jacob and Essau than what meets the Eye, ( Highly Spiritual.)

For lack of better terms here is the root of the story behind them.

Genesis 25:23. And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:11-13. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Jacob had a spiritual discernment that Esau did not have. Esau was a man of the flesh and did not care for spiritual things. In fact, he so discounted his birthright that he traded it to Jacob for a bowl of soup!

These 2 brothers not only represents 2 nations but also spiritually God's elected way " His purpose GRACE "= ( JACOB )

ESAU represents man's self righteousness and perhaps worldliness, flesh. thinking his inheritance is earned by being born 1st.. BUT GODS WAY BEING 1ST BORN DOESN'T GIVE YOU THE BIRTH RIGHT. IT'S THE SECOND BIRTH THAT IS ALL IMPORTANT!!

All through the scripture you see this pattern, 1st Adam 2nd Adam, Ephraim and Manassah, And ourselves Being born again. This is one of many Allegories in the Bible.

GOD'S ELECTED WAY IS GRACE.

Romans 9:11. For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand,

( NOT OF WORKS, )

but of him that calleth.

God bless.

Genesis 27:41

And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said IN HIS HEART, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I SLAY my brother Jacob.

Romans 9:13

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:3

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Obadiah 1:18

And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

KJV Commentary: Esau

Hairy, Rebekah's first-born twin son ( Gen. 25:25). The name of" "Edom, "red", was also given to him from his conduct in" "connection with the red lentil "pottage" for which he sold his" "birthright (30, 31). The circumstances connected with his birth" foreshadowed the enmity which afterwards subsisted between the "twin brothers and the nations they founded (25:22, 23, 26). In" "process of time JACOB following his natural bent, became a" "shepherd; while Esau, a "son of the desert," devoted himself to" the perilous and toilsome life of a huntsman. On a certain "occasion, on returning from the chase, urged by the cravings of" "hunger, Esau sold his birthright to his brother, Jacob, who" "thereby obtained the covenant blessing ( Gen. 27:28, 29, 36; Heb." "12:16, 17). He afterwards tried to regain what he had so" "recklessly parted with, but was defeated in his attempts through" "the stealth of his brother ( Gen. 27:4, 34, 38)." "At the age of forty years, to the great grief of his parents, he "married ( Gen. 26:34, 35) two Canaanite maidens,

Esau tried to conciliate his" "parents ( Gen. 28:8, 9) by marrying his cousin Mahalath, the" daughter of Ishmael. This led him to cast in his lot with the "Ishmaelite tribes (present day Palestinians) and driving the Horites out of Mount Seir, he" settled in that region.

This truth does not need constituency to be relevant and as far as what you think I'm eluding to....IT'S WRITTEN...!

Satan and his serpent seed is always carousing...

MATTHEW 15:24- " I was sent ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL."

ROMANS 9:3- 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

1 MACCABEES 3:48 - And laid open the book of the Law, wherein The heathen had sought to paint the likeness of their images.

MALACHI 3:6 - For I am the Lord, I change not: therefore ye sonnes of Iacob are not consumed.

2 ESDRAS 6:56-:59

ISAIAH 40:15-17

Now, there are many point of views that an individual can conjure, I let the Bible tell me who is who...how come you folks wont let YAHUSHA have his real image instead of Biblical leprousy? This is what I would like to hear from you...!

Sister Martha, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Israel in the Old Testament was dispersed among all the nation of the world. Judea was left so Jesus lineage could be confirmed to be the natural seed of David. Today none can trace their lineage back to Abraham. ISRAEL today (those born again of the Spirit of God) is the promised SEED of Isaac (his name was changed to Israel) (CHRIST IN US).

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one INWARDLY (Christ in you); and circumcision is of the HEART, in the Spirit, and not in the letter (flesh) .....

Romans 9:6 ...for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

The kingdom promised to ISRAEL (CHRIST) is not a literal kingdom that can be seen with eyes; but a kingdom of priest (Christ in you). These battles prophesied in scripture are not literal but in the Spirit.

Jesus said before he comes there would be literal wars, literal earthquakes, literal famines and literal pestilence. This has been happening for 2000 years and Jesus has been COMING to those who look for him 2000 years. Jesus said that it would be like the days of Noah. They knew not till the doors on the ark were CLOSED. The ark could have saved them; Jesus is our ark. Man is looking for all things to be literal and all of a sudden DESTRUCTION (you die; the grave is your reward, the doors to the ark are closed). Most will miss Christ coming; because they are looking for something literal, when the BATTLE and BIRTH are SPIRIT. There will continue literal wars, literal earthquakes, literal famines and literal pestilence until the age we are in ENDS and the next age BEGINS.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was ONCE (Christ ministered in the flesh) offered to bear the sins of many; and unto those WHO LOOK FOR HIM he shall appear the SECOND TIME (IN THE SPIRIT) without sin UNTO SALVATION.

I come like a thief in the night; if you would have seen the thief, he would not have DESTROYED you house.

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, (I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy), and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Luke 18:2-5 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

CAN SALVATION BE LOST?

May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW...

Very few will disagree that God creates every man; since, he created the reproductive process of man; therefore, he FOREKNOWS everyone.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW, he did ALSO PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the IMAGE of his SON, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among many BRETHERN.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also CALLED (presently God is ONLY CALLING those that will be PRIEST in HIS KINGDOM) (the servants in the kingdom will be called at the second resurrection), and whom he CALLED, them HE JUSTIFIED: and whom he JUSTIFIED, them he also GLORIFIED.

Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall also take thereof a FEW in number ....

Ezekiel 5:4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the FIRE (IN CHRIST; Hebrews 12:29), and burn (purify; Malachi 3:2-3) them in the FIRE (IN Christ); for thereof (the Priest) shall a FIRE (the saints judging the world; Revelation 21:8) come forth to the house of Israel.

NO ONE is going to alter GOD's PLAN; whatever God PREDESTINED that you are going to do in his kingdom, YOU WILL DO.

All is the works of God; he uses man to do the labour.

1 Peter 1:2

Ephesians 1:5

Romans 9:13

John 5:70

Ephesians 1:4

Michael.

I errored on previous reply. I believe

Hebrews 6. is talking to believers, BUT not about SALVATION. If we can loose our salvation can we be restored? Every one sins, no one is perfect. Romans 7 ect..

Jesus is our advocate with the Father if we do sin. 1John 2:1. ect..

Visiting the text.

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is ""IMPOSSIBLE" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO (REPENTANCE) seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IF THIS VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT SALVATION THAT MEANS YOU GOT ONE CHANCE. "" FOR IT IS ( IMPOSSIBLE ) TO RENEW THEM AGAIN!! If you sin it's over!

Read on. NOTICE VERSE 9.

Hebrews 6:7-9. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION, though we thus speak.

The Entire Msg to the Hebrews is about maturity.

they was under persecution and was still mengaling in Judaism.

Fruit and gifts accompany salvation through the Holyspirit, Not Judaism.

Salvation and SANCTIFICATION is by the work of the spirit and is a GIFT "un Merritted."

This Way is called God's election.

Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH;)

2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

God bless

Joyce, If you believe....you have been chosen. John 3:16 will confirm that. It says "Whosoever"! Hallelujah!

This verse in Romans does give me a glimmer of hope regarding some of my family/friends whom I do not know if I will be reunited with them in Paradise. Only God knows....and He may do as He wishes.

Hi Merlinda. Many have wondered why Pharaoh & the Egyptians were treated so harshly by God, when prior to sending out the various plagues we often read that God had hardened Pharaoh's heart.

We first see that Pharaoh was an evil man, a brutal dictator who also enslaved the Israelites with terrible abuse & oppression. As well, he believed that he was a god or at least, an intermediary to the pantheon of gods (even as the people considered the pharaohs) & there was none their equal. So Pharaoh could say, "Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go." ( Exodus 5:2). So Pharaoh's heart was already opposed & hardened towards the God Whom Moses & Aaron represented as we also see in some references: Exodus 7:22; 8:15,19,32; 9:7,34,35.

So when we read that it was God Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart ( Exodus 4:21; 7:3; etc.), we have to conclude that indeed God did affect Pharaoh's heart against Him, but his heart was already hard & stubborn & God simply ensured that his heart would remain so during the time of affliction & punishment. God could well have done this to remind Pharaoh who this God of Moses was, the mightier works that He can do than what Pharaoh's magicians could do & how grossly wicked Pharaoh's acts were against the Israelites that warranted such stern punishment. Yet, God was still merciful in sparing the Egyptians lives, in spite of their suffering & loss of human life.

What should have been a repentance & softening of Pharaoh's heart, remained hard & this hardness was then made harder by God proving His Power over the Egyptians & His Love for His people, Israel, to free them from tyranny. Romans 9:17: "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." cf Exodus 9:16.

david said GOD saul is trying to kill me but i got my eye on you said GOD

what is the importance of being baptized? Does this have to occur as an infant? I was a Catholic in my youth and was baptized, communion, and confirmation. Is baptism a necessity?



For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2: 8-9.

Be born again (John ch 3).

Forgive everyone who has wronged you, or that you wronged.

We're supposed to examine ourselves before we take communion. Participating in communion while living in unforgiveness heaps damnation on us.

Gotta give all that stuff to Jesus and walk blameless before our Lord.

What qualifies one to take communion?

Without delving too deep in theology, Divine Election is essentially God choosing who are to belong to Him.

We have the Old Testament references to God's choosing Israel: Isaiah 42:1; Isaiah 45:4; Isaiah 65:9; Matthew 24:22 (Matthew is still OT in this respect). Israel wasn't a nation at the time of God's choosing nor did its forefathers deserve anything for God choosing them, but that He wanted a "special people, to set His Love upon them, & to keep His Oath made to their forefathers" ( Deuteronomy 7:6-8).

In the New Testament (post Cross), the Apostle Paul speaks of God's Elect as being from both Israel & the Gentiles: under "the election of Grace" (Romans chapter 11) and Colossians 3:12; 1 Peter 1:2.

So we understand from Scripture, that God chooses whomever He desires to be His very Own. Yet, after the advent of Jesus Christ & His Sacrifice for all (Jew & Gentile), God's choosing is based on the Cross & yet the remnant of disbelieving Israel will still figure at the end times.

Then maybe your question is in respect of how that Divine Election affects sinful mankind now: are some forever lost without hope, or are some dragged kicking & screaming into the Kingdom, none having any choice because of Divine Election? To answer this, God's choosing of those to be saved is entirely because of His Determination & His Plans. Since we know that God is an Omniscient God (He knows all things from eternity to eternity), His Plans must include those who come into the world, the life path they take, their hearing of the Gospel & their response to it.

Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." "Ordained to eternal life". This is election, showing that God, Who had appointed some to eternal life, followed through with believing on His Son. In other words, whom God chooses will be saved - those who refuse His Son are not part of the elect or chosen of God.

2 Thessalonians: 2: 7-11 KJV

7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8. And then shall that Wicked (Antichrist) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Comment from Phillips Bible:

I expect you remember now how I talked about this when I was with you. You will probably also remember how I used to talk about a "restraining power" which would operate until the time should come for the emergence of this man. Evil is already insidiously at work but its activities are restricted until what I have called the "restraining power" (of God) is removed. When that happens the lawless man will be plainly seen-though the truth of the Lord Jesus spells his doom, and the radiance of the coming of the Lord Jesus will be his utter destruction. The lawless man is produced by the spirit of evil and armed with all the force, wonders and signs that falsehood can devise. To those involved in this dying world he will come with evil's undiluted power to deceive, for they have refused to love the truth which could have saved them. God sends upon them, therefore, the full force of evil's delusion, so that they put their faith in an utter fraud and meet the inevitable judgment of all who have refused to believe the truth and who have made evil their play-fellow.

Mishael comment. The Holy Spirit will still be here, but His power will be diminished. People left behind will call on Jesus to receive salvation; but they will die physically by refusing to take the Mark of the Beast.

Hi Thomas.

I would like to second our brother Chris, It would take a powerful force to restraint the work of Satan,

1 John 4:3-4. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU, THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD.

We witness the same restrainer mentioned here in our lives, in our everyday walk in this world.

I think it's not just Satan will turn up his activity, those left behind will be more receptive.

Nolonger equipped with the armor as mentioned in Ephesians 6.

2 Thessalonians 2:6,7: "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

The Apostle Paul had spoken about this matter to the Corinthians earlier (2:5), so they knew what Paul was referring to & had a fuller understanding of this narrative, but it has been kept hidden from us. As a result, there has been much conjecture as to who or what this 'restrainer' is.

It has been suggested that it is some prominent individual (whether in the Church or in the World), but we know not of anyone who fulfils this position or holds such power to prevent the incarnate Devil from appearing.

Another suggests that it is civil government with its administrations that bring cohesiveness through laws to unify a country in its diversity. That these would be eroded over time (as we even see now), where laws & permissions are given that are becoming increasingly anti-Christian, anti-biblical, when it would be easy for a civil authority to fall under the supreme control of a one-world dictator, lending them full support.

And yet others see the Church in these verses: that the Holy Spirit is the One, Who by indwelling His people, remains as the great restrainer against the tide of evil. If the Spirit "is taken out of the way", so must the Church (the Body of believers) be removed, as it would be an impossible & unbiblical position to hold, that a believer could ever remain as such on the Earth without the indwelling Spirit. I tend to follow this belief as the most tenable but as always, open to other opinions which might shed more light.

Who/What Restrains the antichrist

what is divine election?

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengenance belongeth to me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" Hebrews 10:26-31

"We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive the grace of God in vain" 2 Corinthians 6:1

"I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth" Genesis 6:7

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Genesis 6:8

"Thou shall not Kill" Exodus 20:13

"Thou shall not commit adultery" Genesis 20:14

"An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever" Deuteronomy 23:3

"and Ruth the Moabitess.." Ruth 1:22

"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy" Romans 9:18

"..ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" Jude 1:4

"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1-2

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16

"the soul that sinneth , it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14

Dear Tom,

One other aspect I have been led to reply to is about how you stated "once anointed one cannot sin". As I can only perceive what you mean is to have received the Holy Ghost after giving our life to the Lord? Unless this is from a higher level in which God knows exactly who are His from before we took our first breath in this earth. How He knows the end before the beginning which is truth.

Now I know some believe in "once saved always saved". Which is nice to think but there is Scripture to contradict with this thought. Like Hebrews 10:26-31, ( 2 Peter 10:20-22. Jesus stating in Matthew 7:21-23. Also in Matthew 24:10-12 that there shall be a falling away and it is "he that shall endure until the end, the same shall be saved".

As we are all just vessels it is Gods choice alone who is to be saved. As in Romans 9:19-24, ( 2 Timothy 2:19-21. Even when God spake to Moses in Exodus 33:19. It is all His will which is Holy and pure.

Though as stated in the couple verses I have posted it seems that people can lose their salvation. As I would believe there are people who have fallen away and maybe hate God and Jesus Christ now. Also knowing of a couple that have fallen away but come back to the Lord. Which I believe shall be forgiven. As it is His will and all things are possible with God.

The abyss of hell which imprisons the dead without Christ and demons. Romans 9:1-12

I want Romans 9:18-22

Right on Rickey! It is LOVE created by GOD that saves us!!

John 3:16

In this new year put self on the shelf and be the feel of honour . Romans 9:21 Galatians2:20-21 2Corinthians 5:17 - 18 and one will have a blessed year.