Discuss Titus 2 Page 2

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Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8 Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.

It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28 John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.

John 17:3

In love & truth

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4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.

5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts

& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.

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Hi Chris

Quoting you (we can never fulfill the law perfectly,) this is against Scriptures, Rom 8:4; it doesn't state a little or mostly, but fulfill in Christ Jesus! He's the Head, we're His body.

I've notice you've left the word 'abrogated', out of this conversation, no doubt; after this enlightenment, yet your being shifty to your assertions, as you indirectly assert it again by Hebrews 8:13; deceitfully clever, whether you were mindful of it or not, the Lord know the intent of our hearts. The Law; is only vanish away if we are walking in the Spirit, Gal 5:16; If we sin, than the Law revives & the penalty of death ensues. Sin is not to be continue in, to be repeated over & over again for life, the holy writ says, Rom 6:11; through the exercising of the Word of His Grace/Righteousness, it, the sin nature in purge out as we remain confident, faithful & steadfast unto the end. Hebrews 10:36-39;

This liberty that you speak of in the NC, from the context of our previous conversation; your stated, to fully know & obey God's will, by the working of Holy Spirit in them, your stating this can be accomplish, now your being evasive in this statement also, Titus 2:7; Friend, your speaking out of both sides of your mouth here, James 1:8; James 3:11,12; this doesn't become godliness, truth in the inward parts & righteousness in either testament.

quoting Spencer

We now are IDENTIFIED with Jesus death and resurrection.

Romans 6:3-11;

Yes, if we're truly indeed are "dead unto sin"

but if we continue in sin for life, as you have responsed to me, & believe that one cannot overcome sin in this life, than we're not IDENTIFIED with Christ death or resurrection. Consider what you're reading in Romans 6; It's speaking about Grace appearance within our hearts Titus 2:11,12; destroying all the works of the devil, Rom 6:14; by 2 Thessalonians 2:8; the man of sin, alais the son of perditon that rules the Adamic nature, the spirit of darkness who animates the son of disobedience. Daniel 2:22; for this purpose is the Son of God is manifested to destroy him, but what is that for those who continue in sin for life, but there condemnation.

Jesus name declares His works, Matt 1:21 not in their sins.

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God bless.

Friends;

Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.

I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;

Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;

As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.

Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.

This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;

It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;

Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.

Isa 38:3; 1 Kings 11:4; 1 Kings 8:61; "present tense", Luke 1:5,6; they were perfect under the gospel of their dispensation. What God requires of us, is to walk uprightly according to the Truth that we know.

NT

a perfect sacrifice requires a perfect offering Matt 5:48; Rom 12:1; Perfection is required. He's the head, we're His body, is Christ sinful?

Gigi, describe perfectly the heart intent of a believer journey in the work of regeneration, except, not being able to overcome all sin. 1John 3:8; the perfect work of Grace purges out all iniquity, Titus 2:14; the littlest of leaven, leaveth the whole lump.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the son's of God, & the Spirit of God will never, never lead one into sin. Therefore we know by who spirit we are of; 1John 3:9,10; Matt 17:17-23

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 2

2 To make an end of sins (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law). The verb in the Hebrew text translated as "put an end to" can mean "to seal up". The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Psalm 32:1-2 Matthew 1:21 John 1:29 Romans 8:3 1 Corinthians 15:3 Hebrews 10:8-11 1 John 3:5 Revelation 16:15.

Is there still sin today? Yes. Will there still be sin and death after Jesus's second coming? Yes. Even during the 1000 years, there will be sin and death until all is made new Rev. 21:1-4 but through Jesus, they are covered and sealed, Rev. 16:15

3 To make reconciliation for iniquity (Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion, in the dark. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation.

4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. Everlasting, no end, righteousness, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will, fair and balanced. Isaiah 61:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Peter 2:24.

See Part 3

Hi Richard,

1Jn 1:8-10 explains the operations of John 16:8; & the exercises of Hebrews 5:13;14; when He convicts of sin or of righteousness, He bring these two seeds of thought within into judgment. The still small Voice of conscience that reproves us of sinful thoughts, words or actions, this is Grace Titus 2:11 / Light John 1:9 Christ spiritual appearance within our hearts, Ephesians 5:13; to 1 John 3:8; if rejected, His word has no place within us, & we call Him a liar & why? John 3:19,20; Rom 1:18,19; rejecting Him, we suppress the Truth in unrighteousness. Therefore we don't John 1:12; but if we receive His convictions, we received the power that comes with the conviction to become the sons of God, for the 1Cor 12:7; More insight of the Spirit operations within conscience, Rom 2:15;

So there's a time when Holy Spirit comes to us as sinners, for Rom 3:23 & a time ( if we received His words ) repentance is granted & we're cleanse from all sin. 1 John 1:9; Titus 2:14; 2Cor 7:1; by the 1 Pet 1:23; = Light, becoming Matt 5:48; 1 Pet 1:15,16; for they that are 1Cor 6:17 & in Him 1 John 3:5; All by the working of Grace / Light / Spirit appearance within conscience.

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

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The great work of regeneration & renewing, picking up the Cross, the Power of God unto salvation, the dying daily, Gal 2:20; Paul knew John 8:32;. You quoted Philippians 3:12 read further :15 the word for mature is also translated "perfect" in the NKJV. (& by the way, I DON'T advocate anyone to the studying of the letter by natural arts of Hebrew/Greek etc; the different language begin at Babel, meaning confusion, & that's just what has happen, there' over 45,000 different sect's of Christianity worldwide, each proclaiming "here is Christ," When Christianity was first birth & brought forth by His Spirit, Act 4:32; Ephesians 4:5; is that the case today? Its more like Judges 21:25; God's words are Spirit & is only understood & possess by the Spirit which gave them forth. 2Cor 2:11,12; Gal 3:2 the Spirit is received by faith, which comes by hearing the Word of God in our heart, not the letter, for the letter kills, the Spirit alone gives us the very life of God, to be manifested in our mortal bodies, to the destroying ALL, ALL, ALL the works of the devil & conform us to Christ, Rom 8:39; Luke 6:40; The letter cannot do this, Scripture plainly points & instructs us in this, "he that hath ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit has to say.) Sanctification "making holy" is on this side of the grave, the work of Titus 2:11,12 & its includes the whole man, spirit, soul & body. Titus 2:14 cleansing us from ALL iniquity, that we may Col 1:22. The faith y'all are promoting is 2 Timothy 3:5; Gal 5:8,9

The angel proclaimed Matt 1:21; His Name declares His works "He shall saved them from their sins, not in their sins"

There's much more that could be brought forth here; Rom 6 -8

The Spirit prayer in Ephesians 1:17-21 "not only in this world, but that which is to come" Thy Kingdom come, here on earth as it is in heaven.

hope all will seriously consider & weigh these words. 2 Cor 3:5,6

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

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..... Eph 6:12; 2 Cor 10:3,4,5; Matt 15:18; Matt 12:34 both seeds or kingdoms are within.

Paul gives us an insight of his growth in grace in 1Cor 9:27; he considers himself capable to falling, he kept his body under, then in Rom 8:35-39; he had reach a level of the stature an fullness of Christ that nothing could separate Him from the love of Christ Jesus his Lord. Sin separates, as Eden experience tell us & our own experiences bares witness to us.

Chris; you've accurately describe in your own experience His Grace/Light spiritual appearance within your heart, following Him in this manner will Titus 2: 14; Eze 36:25; the washing of the water of the Word; the incorruptible Seed; becoming holy, blameless unreproachable in His sight, that we may experience 2 Cor 6:16; Gal 2:20; Luke 6:40; Jn 17: 21-24

The veil of the flesh is taken away by Christ, that the intimacy, oneness with Him in Spirit may be known & felt in our hearts here on earth.

Hope this stimulates your query;

in love & truth

Franke J

Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God, not the written words of God, but the living Word of God, the Spirit of Christ. This living Word will alway agree with the written words of God, & sound reason, our conscience bearing witness in Truth & Righteousness. Each one of us has a small measure of His Spirit within us, compared to a mustard seed for smallness..yet if believe in & nurtured grows until we come to the fullest of the knowledge of the stature of Christ. All by His divine power, namely "Light" giving us all things that pertain to life & godliness through the knowledge of Him who has call us to glory & virtue. Scriptures states ,the Word is near us, in our heart & mouth, this is were He is to be known & felt in our hearts, this is the word of Faith that Paul preached. Hearing & obeying His words which He speaks within, engrafts Him within us, comforming us to Himself, for His words are His Spirit & His Life, thus; we're putting on Christ, the whole armor of God, we walk even as He walk, & are sent even as He was sent. Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit. The Scriptures testify over & over again, "he that has ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit has to say, not the letter, the letter kills, its the Spirit alone that gives life. He was made a life giving Spirit. So faith come by hearing His still small Voice within us, that Voice speaks within conscience according to Romans 2:15, which explains the operations of Grace spiritual appearance within; Titus 2:11-13 Which is the revelation of Jesus Christ unto us, according to 2Cor 4:6-7, The nature of true faith purifies the heart. Faith is believing that it is He, who is revealing Himself to us by His Spirit of Grace in the face of Jesus Christ, who is God, who was before the Scriptures & was in the beginning with God.

I hope this enlighten & stimultates your heart search for Truth.

My LORD JESUS CHRIST is worthy of all the praise I can give HIM. I can only truly worship HIM when I know my KING personally through HIS word and the help of the HOLY SPIRIT in me.

GOD to shine HIS face on all who love and trust HIM; and bless us all gloriously. 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15; Galatians 5:16; Matthew 28:18-20;

2 Peter 3:9; Titus 2: 11-14;

Ephesians 2: 8-10

Thank YOU FATHER for preserving YOUR word for our daily use. May we enter into the harvest and seek to fulfill YOUR will in us.

GOD bless and provide for all on this forum.

June 10, 2023

A woman is said not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12) and that verse also mentions that women shouldn't teach as well. Women are to teach their children however; mentioned just a few verses earlier in 1 Timothy 1:5. There are other verses in Titus and other scriptures where the wisdom of God are to be instructed as well.

It gets fuzzy when we get into such things as a small group. What is considered an informal conversation often morphs with "teaching" in some respect. Certainly there is benefit to women teaching other women ( Titus 2:4-6) which involves bringing up responsible young women and men as well in their domestic duties. Certainly we are all part of God's family so it could extend to other families as well.

The theoretical conundrum is when a woman wishes to Pastor if there is "no man available" for such a role. If it is truly the case and no men are in a congregation; I don't see anything wrong with a woman taking up that role as it were; but as soon as a believing male is present there should be some oversight and transferrance of authority ASAP in that regard.

Also; I have read female authors (one in particular on Bible Prophecy) who is in my opinion uneqalled in the scriptural detail about the end times. She goes to church with her husband and doesn't attempt to have lectures and such on tour; just a website. Such conferences that women have are often sold as a sort of motivational talk but often are more like women taking over preaching as s Pastor role. Most of the time there appears to be egregious error in such cases; as to when wives and husbands have a "co-ministry".

The authority of a Pastor also is an elder role; which carries with it a supervisory role protecting the flock; exercising authority for church discipline and other matters. That does NOT mean that women shouldn't report an erring sister or brother although when do you hear about that? Matthew 18:15-20 should proceed from there with men.

We are not left to our own devices, nor to be buffeted about ( Ephesians 4:14b) "with every wind of doctrine" but we are lead every step of the way. However, to be truly successful and unmovable, we must be deeply intimate with our LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST through Scripture. Then take this knowledge and apply it in a Christ-like, Christ honoring, manner in our daily conversation and contact with whomsoever the LORD brings to us. 1 Peter 3:15

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

There are too many people in today's society confused of their reason for being here, who they identify as, and where to go for help. May our testimony in the LORD JESUS CHRIST make a difference as we pray, 2 Timothy 2:1-3; and go forth to make disciples, Matthew 28: 18-20; but most important- our own personal growth in the LORD, 2 Peter 1, Titus 2:11-15. (many, many more)

GOD to shine HIS face on all on this forum and bless you gloriously to praise and serve HIM from this day forward.

April 13, 2023

John 8:36 assures us that with the Son we are "free indeed". Freedom; in short is opposite of what the world follows as we are slaves or bondservants of Christ ( 1 Cor. 4; 7). To follow the prince of this world and all its temporary pleasures is, in reality; a dead end whereas His riches in glory for those who love Him are eternal for those saints which are already seated with Him in "heavenly places." ( Eph. 2:6).

When seeking His will and petitioning prayers; it is His Covenant promises which we can tenaciously proclaim as it is His binding contract with His people that He has made with His good pleasure. This is certainly different than just seeking those things that seem most convenient to make us more comfortable in this life. It truly is best when His life is the guide to our lives and He can be the "captain" of our salvation ( Hebrews 2:10). It is this or being shipwrecked; as it were which is a warning for those who fall away ( 1 Timothy 1:9 as a general admonition along with specific individuals in other Pauline writings).

It is helpful, therefore to have brothers more mature in the faith as "iron sharpens iron." ( Proverbs 27:17). We should also have our individual walk grow to maturity with our quiet times; prayer life and devotionals. John 6:45 shows that we shall all be taught of God; so we should learn to discern His voice from the cacaphony that rings in our ears.

As adopted sons of God ( Gal. 4:5) we are granted therefore all the blessings and substance of the inheritance. The eternal riches in Glory certainly outweigh any earthly pleasures ( 2 Cor. 4:17). We should strive therefore to remain steadfast and remain in His will. The flesh is dying daily in terms of the outward man (see previous verse 16) but the inward man is being conformed to His image. (see Romans 12:2). To deny ungodliness is true freedom ( Titus 2:12) despite our natural affections that seem to indicate the contrary.

Thank you Jimbob for taking the time to pore through my submission, though I'm sorry that you weren't able to see what I see in the Scriptures. From the many other views we get on this subject, we see that we all can have our different Scriptures that show us how we should perceive these last days.

Even the Revelation 14:14-16 passage you quoted, referring to the harvest being the Church; if this is the Rapture, why then did the Church have to experience the previous judgements of God (in Revelation 6:1-17: Seal Judgements; Revelation 8:1-9:21: Trumpet Judgements). These can't be the ordinary, everyday turmoils that Earth's inhabitants face, but specific Judgements from God and then the sickle is struck for the harvesting (& of course, some are cast into the winepress of God's Wrath).

So brother, I don't want to continually rehash the earlier passages we've written about, as clearly we read these prophetical messages differently. My understanding is that the Great Tribulation of seven years (the last week seen in Daniel's prophecy), which includes God's Wrath in its various phases & intensities, will come after the Church is removed; even as promised to the Philadelphian Church in Revelation 3:10.

The anti-Christ (at least at the beginning of his reign of terror to his opponents), & the beginning of God's Judgements ( Revelation 6,8,9), assure our hearts that the Rapture of the Church can happen suddenly, without any signs to prepare for that day. The call is for our expectant joyous living & readiness now, as even the early Church was to urged to expect ( Philippians 4:5; 1 Thessalonians 5:6; Titus 2:13; James 5:8; Revelation 1:3) - not for our awakening when things begin to get very difficult in the course of the final seven years. The call was always for believers' readiness - we couldn't be in such a state if we know that much more needs to happen before the Lord's Coming/Rapture of the Church - death might overtake most of us before then.

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2. A second crucial rule of biblical hermeneutics is that passages must be interpreted historically, grammatically, and contextually. Interpreting a passage historically means we must first seek to understand the culture, background, and situation that prompted the writing. For example, in order to understand Jonah's flight, in Jonah 1:1-3, we should learn of the history of the Assyrians as it related to Israel.

Interpreting a passage grammatically requires one to follow the rules of grammar and recognize the nuances of Hebrew and Greek. For example, when Paul writes of "the great God and Saviour Jesus Christ" in Titus 2:13, the rules of grammar state that God and Savior are parallel terms and they are both in apposition to Jesus Christ; in other words, Paul clearly calls Jesus "our great God" & not identifying the two Persons separately in the Deity. Interpreting a passage contextually involves considering the context of a verse or passage when trying to determine the meaning. The context includes the verses immediately preceding and following it, the chapter, the book, and indeed the entire Bible. For example, many puzzling statements in Ecclesiastes become clearer when kept in context; the book of Ecclesiastes is written from the earthly perspective 'under the sun' ( Ecclesiastes 1:3). In fact, the phrase 'under the sun' is repeated many times in this book, establishing the context for all that is "vanity" in this world.

3. A third rule of biblical hermeneutics is that Scripture is always the best interpreter of Scripture (& this you believe & stated clearly). For this reason, we always compare Scripture with Scripture when trying to determine the meaning of a passage. For example, Isaiah's condemnation of Judah's desire to seek Egypt's help and their reliance on a strong cavalry ( Isaiah 31:1) was motivated, in part, by God's explicit command that His people not go to Egypt to seek horses ( Deuteronomy 17:16).

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d. the revelation of the anti-Christ is restrained ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12). Paul's reason for writing this was because the Church was greatly troubled that the Day of the Lord (Christ) had begun. Paul said that that day wouldn't commence until Jesus came for them & raptured them ("our gathering together unto him": v1). The 'restrainer' is the Holy Spirit in God's people, then when He is removed, God's people are removed, for the Holy Spirit was sent to indwell us & work in & through us & for the Gospel's propagation ( John 16:7,8,13).

e. a comparison between an imminent Rapture & Rapture at the Second Coming:

1. Translation of all believers ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18) --- No translation at all ( Revelation 19:6-21).

2. Raptured saints return to Heaven ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17; John 14:1-3) --- Raptured saints return to Earth ( 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Revelation 19:14).

3. Any moment, in readiness, without signs ( 1 Corinthians 1:7; Philippians 4:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:6; Titus 2:13; James 5:7-9; Revelation 3:11, 22:7,12,20) --- many signs given of the Great Tribulation which leads into Jesus' coming (so a readiness cannot be expected, as the seven year's count down begins with the anti-Christ).

A Pre-Tribulation Rapture position keeps the Church ready & watching for her Lord's Coming. Any other position can give her the tendency to apathy & carelessness. The Church is told to be watchful, in spite of ridicule, "where is the promise of his coming" ( 2 Peter 3:4). But Christ's coming is held back until the full number are saved (v9) - and then Jesus will come to take His Church Home.

(Part 2)

Gena,

I'm sorry for being long winded, but I think the rest of what I wanted to say is important, and I hope you find something of value in this.

Jesus makes a statement in Matthew 26:41. We know it as the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. But Matthew 26:41 literally reads the spirit is prepared. The flesh is weak.



You see, what He's showing them is that they need to be watching for Satan, lest they fall into temptation. They can't do it in the flesh. The flesh is weak.



They didn't have the Holy Spirit yet. The Lord was giving them an illustration of being spiritually awake, alert to Satan, which they could not do without the Holy Spirit.



So it was a lesson on watchfulness, spiritually. It is a lesson on sobriety, except He's not talking about alcohol.

In Paul's letters, and I'm summing it up for you, but in Paul's letters he would talk about this condition to warn believers about being sober minded.



In other words, your mind can be so drunk with the things of the world, that your mind is just so occupied with all these things. It's the same as being drunk, only it's mental. You'll sit there in the chair and stare at the wall because you have so much to think about.



Be sober minded. Don't get drunk on the things of the world occupying your mind. Be watchful. Be alert.

So he says in Verse 8, but we who are of the day, we should be sober.

Again, many places in scripture where we see the word sober, it has nothing to do with alcohol, but sober as in being sober minded.

Blessings to you in Christ Jesus!

Gena,

There are several places in the Bible where we see the word sober that refer to being sober minded, not sober as in refraining from alcohol. Would you be able to share some of the verses you are referring to?

As far as being sober minded, I'll take 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 as an example. In Verse 6, it says therefore, and I'll give you some technical things here about the translation.



Instead of let us not sleep, it's literally we should not sleep. It's not a command. It says we should not sleep, as do the others; but let us watch and be sober.

Verse 7 says "For they that sleep, they sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night."

And again, a literal translation in Verse 8:

But we should, (that is, we who are of the day), we should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love;

Now just for the sake of information, and please hang with me for a moment here because there are some very important words.



In Verse 6, the word watch means to be awake. It's the opposite of sleep. The word sober has to do with sober mindedness.

Now here's the connection:



In Matthew Chapter 26 Verse 36, Jesus, before He died, He took Peter and a couple of the other disciples, and He wanted to pray in the garden.



His heart was heavy, and He wanted to take them with Him so that He could pray. And He left them at a certain spot and He went a little distance and began to pray.



He came back and they were sleeping. He says cannot you watch with me for one hour? He went back to prayer again. When He came back, they were sleeping again. He told them that it's important to be awake lest you fall into temptation.

What He's doing is He's taking a physical circumstance and making a spiritual illustration, because He goes back to praying again, comes back and finds them sleeping again and tells them "Okay, let's go."

I'm out of space but would like to share a little more if you haven't fallen asleep on me yet!

Six things determined upon Daniel's people and the holy city.

Part 4

To make reconciliation for iniquity

Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, to coat or cover, Isaiah 61:10 Rev. 3:4 Rev. 16:15, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, twistedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, and moral distortion in the dark.

Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:5-6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 Romans 4:7 2 Romans 5:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 Colossians 1:19-22

The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony, Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father, no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation. God has reconciled himself to us and empowered us by his Spirit to reconcile ourselves to God and one another.

To bring in everlasting righteousness.

Everlasting, no end, long duration, antiquity, futurity, forever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, continuous existence. Righteousness, God's attribute, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant, and according to God's will, fair and balanced.

Isaiah 61:10-11 Hebrews 8:12 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Corinthians 1:30 2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 2:24

Everlasting righteousness was what our Lord manifested in His sinless life. Jesus by His blood entered in once into the holy place not made by hands having obtained eternal redemption, everlasting, and in Jesus we have everlasting righteousness and salvation, through faith, given by grace from God, by the blood of the Lamb freely offered for us. We have no righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.

See Part 5

I see the word sober over and over in the Bible... I looked up the definition in Websites dictionary and it said to not drink alcohol. What about the other mind altering substances that we have out there? Do they not make you drunk as well? Or does the word sober in the bible only pertain to alcohol?

Page 1.

Thanks again Jimbob. If I might take our discussion to anothe level. One great fact of the Church's Rapture, is not only its imminency but its suddenness. In the NT, the command was for readiness ( Matthew 25:13 (10 virgins); Luke 12:40; Philippians 4:5; 1 Thessalonians 5:6; Titus 2:13), for Christ's coming. The early Church was expecting it & proclaiming it, but the scoffers, then & now have proved themselves right ( 2 Peter 3:3,4) - Jesus hadn't come, nor has history ever recorded such a 'parousia' ever taking place. But the Church still continues to wait, knowing that God's Word is True & that God's Time is never man's concept of time ( 2 Peter 3:8). Therefore the question: why should we await for the any-moment return of Jesus, if that return could be quite easily plotted by the 'falling away', the appearance of the anti-Christ, even the beginning of the Great Tribulation (of God's Wrath which you believe only includes those catastrophic events of Matthew 24:29; Revelation chapter 16)?

The Holy Spirit (introduction)

When the Spirit dwells in an individual in our current Dispensation a foreign righteousness enters our world. He uses the most subtle means and is often quite gentle; but make no mistake. He's not there to do anything less than cause the death of our old nature and all the desires of the flesh. How willingly we submit will determine our spiritual rewards or lack thereof; and could even shorten our life if we aren't careful ( 1 Cor. 11:30). I HIGHLY recommend new believers to examine Paul's writings to the Corinthians after gaining a basic understanding of the Gospels. There is much to learn there about maturity; church discipline and many common problems still relevant today involving cultural surroundings and the affect on those who are new creatures in Christ. 1 Corinthians 4:21 gives the question if Paul would be preferred to come with a "rod of discipline" and this can be applied to the Lord Himself chastising us as we grow in faith. He is the "Captain" of the ship and therefore of our souls ( Heb. 2:10).

The mystery of God involves how God can dwell with man; the infinite with finite flesh ( 1 Cor. 3:16-17). As long as we are on earth; this paradox of foreign righteousness contends with the flesh and we are torn between the two. Christ; then IS our righteousness ( 1 Cor. 1:30) but the source comes from without. We die daily ( 1 Cor. 15:31) as we are transformed by the renewing of our mind ( Romans 12:2).

The church was built with the plan for the Body to be "fitted together" ( 1 Cor. 12:18 and also Ephesians 4:16). Once we get past the melee which was the state of the Corinthians as a "motley crew" that had to be disciplined we are in theory to build one another up. That involves the strong in faith teaching the weak ( Titus 2:4-6) (and apparently 84 other verses in scripture specifically relating to women in that role!) as well as exhortation; rebuke; and reproving ( 2 Tim. 4:2); as well as sympathy ( Rom. 12:15)

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There are many "numbers" being toss about with no Biblical reference: 7000 being the elected Jews? Acts 2 was used, but only 3000 were saved and baptized v41. Later in the same chapter many were saved, however no exact number v47 "and the LORD added to the church daily such as should be saved."

A reference was made to Revelation 7, but even there John writes of the 144,000; 12,000 from each tribe.

I found from 1 Kings 19: 18: GOD reminds Elijah "...yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Ball, and every mouth which hath not kissed him."

GOD to shine HIS face and bless all on this forum. HIS countenance to be great upon all the saints and give you peace.

Let us pray for salvation of our leadership and the lost and confused. May we put first the desire of the LORD.

Matthew 28: 18-20; 2 Peter 3:9; Titus 2: 13- 15; 1 John 5:3

October 25, 2022

Yes, Fred, it is the grace of God ( Titus 2:11-14) that brings salvation...it teaches us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for Jesus' return (our blessed Hope). He gave Himself that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

And check out 2 Peter 1:2-4. It says that God's grace and peace can be multiplied to us in regards to knowledge of God an of Jesus our Lord. And it says that -as His divine power has given to us all things pertaining to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue (Jesus'), by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these yo may be partakers (acquire the communicable virtues of God and reflect the character of God to others) of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Then it goes on to (vs. 5-11) to list what we should strive (with the help of the Holy Spirit) to acquire and how we are to attain maturity. It is so very wonderful that God does not convert us and then leave the rest to us on our own efforts and strength. We would fail miserably again and again in our own humanity. But with the divine gifts that God gives us through the Spirit, we can become increasingly godly in our behavior, devoted to God, desirous of becoming more and more like Jesus, and seeking to commune with Him in our daily walk. He is always with us, always able to deliver us from evil, always true to His promises, and will accomplish His purpose in us-to be saved from sin, death, and the devil; and to be made fit for the life to come. We already have eternal life, though we still have mortal bodies. But God's plan for His people is far beyond whatever we can even imagine.

Fred, we will all be changed one day. All sin and corruption will be completely and forever removed from us. Can't wait

That's quite correct, GiGi. The Greek word for 'perfect' is 'teleios', which essentially means 'having reached its end' (or, made complete, and by extension, 'matured or perfected'). And such was the burden on Paul, that he fulfil his calling & ministry to not only bring folk to Christ but that they would also reflect lives that exhibit Christ in them. And this he did by 'teaching them & warning them' that they would grow in faith & grace to the point of real spiritual maturity.

As Paul wrote to Titus in Titus 2:12,13, "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." We could see these verses as the fruit of Christian spiritual maturity, which Paul pointed believers to & hoped to see, & also urged Titus to pursue for his congregations.

My walk in the LORD GOD should always be "salted" in the joy I have because of CHRIST JESUS in me. As I adhere unto the things of GOD, I can be assured that the LORD will hear and answer my prayers and supplication. 1 John 5: 14, 15

At this junction, our country is facing grave and dangerous outcomes with our current leaders and the direction we are heading with their current economic, social, and religious ideologies. I must go before the LORD as depicted in

2 Chronicles 7:14, 15.

The disciples asked the LORD JESUS why they couldn't heal the demon possessed boy, and the HE replied "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Matthew 17: 21 If I desire healing for our land and country, I must become "salt" and turn from the leaven and honey; and praise the LORD in HIS great commission. If I am of CHRIST, then I must set my "...affections on things above and not on this earth..."

I must be willing to present my body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto my GOD. "...And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Romans 12: 1, 2

I write this post to remind myself of what I need to do and where my devotion unto my LORD stands at this point in my walk with HIM.

I praise the LORD for all the saints on this forum and their love for the LORD JESUS CHRIST. The sharing, declaring, and proclaiming the precious things the LORD has done for you is certainly encouraging for me to read and glorify HIM.

Numbers 6

24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

The LORD to lift all who love HIM and await HIS soon and imminent coming. Titus 2: 11-15

September 26, 2022

1Timothy 2,

1. Being in the written WORD therefore 2Timothy 3:16,17,

or

2. Different debates on the meaning

In the Concordance meaning in 1Timothy 2:12, "to teach" also meaning "to learn" which explains alot given the culture of the middle East, not allowing women to learn. Broading the limitation even more. Looking into 1Timothy 2:9, brings much perspective into these verses.

Note: 1Timothy 2:13,14,

Distraction, attention even seduction, persuasion ect. From both female & male. Verse 1Timothy 5:2, 2Timothy 3:1-7, 2Timothy 3:12,13,

1Corinthians 14:34,35, Revelation 2:20-29,

Titus 2:1-5, different word for teach is used. From Greek translation.

There has been the debate that Sunday School teachers within the American Churches that don't "allow women to teach " primarily lead & teach the male children: setting a foundation. ?

Bethel Church Redding California Pastor Chris, I believe the Pastor's name is) says the words were said as a contradictory statement like absurdity. From the Greek wording & how it was stated. He also felt the emphasis was on "usurping", however in my translation the word "or" breaks that part. I bring this up because it's the only argument anyone has given on this, that made me wonder. Another argument is: only Paul says this, not Old Testament nor Jesus. Was Paul addressing only Corinth & Timothy? Was Paul addressing cultural issues?

Here is one additional Prophecy, it allows women to prophecy covered. 1Corinthians 11:5-16,

We ourselves should do our best to follow scripture, GOD"S WORD, The HOLY Spirit in obedience to what we should & should not do. 1Corinthians 6:12

Therefore let's consider much.

What does teach mean? Within the Church? Isn't that the job of The HOLY Spirit? John 14:26, 1John 2:27,

Should we all refrain our speaking more, within the Church? Especially words not in edification, away from unholy speach? What is the gathering of the Church? 1Corinthians 11:20,

Hopefully these are helpful