Romans 11:16-24 shows Israel as distinct from the Church: the "natural branches" are the Jews, and the "wild branches" are the Gentiles.
The "olive tree" is the collective people of God. The "natural branches" (Jews) are "cut off" the tree for unbelief, and the "wild branches" (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews "jealous" and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be grafted in again and receive their promised inheritance.
The natural branches are still distinct from the "wild branches," so that God's covenant with His people is literally fulfilled.
Isaiah 62:11-12 "Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
Moses' prediction of Israel's permanent restoration to the land in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.
Moses said, "THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEARTS!!
SO HOW WILL "ALL ISRAEL BE SAVED?
Zechariah 8-14 , which speak of end-times Israel at Christ's return.
The key verse describing the coming to faith of the future remnant of Israel is Zechariah 12:10.
This occurs at the end of the tribulation.
Also; Zechariah 8:7-8.
Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth ( Isaiah 11:12.
The statement of weeping in Ramah is echoed here from the passage in the Old Testament in Jeremiah. This signifies another one of Satan's attempts to wipe out the godly seed; reflecting the age old battle started in Genesis 3:15.
When we see the story of Christ from His birth to His death Satan was given license to come within inches of his goal; in the former situation killing every male child through Herod's persecution except for that of Joseph and Mary which was thwarted by supernatural intervention ( Matt. 2:13-23) after the Magi were warned previously to return to their homeland by a different route whence they came. No doubt at His death Satan thought he was granted total success in killing the Son of God at the cross but Judas Iscariot at least realized that he had been part of killing a just man; sadly it was worldly sorrow rather than godly sorrow leading to repentance in this case. Satan and the demons; unlike man KNOW who Christ is; as James states the demons believe and tremble ( James 2:19). The forces of evil should have known that a member of the Godhead is indeed invincible; even over death; certainly Satan's defeat echoing the prophecy in Genesis about his head being destroyed was at least partially fulfilled; I would argue in Revelation comes another fulfillment; with the deadly wound healed of Antichrist Satan's agent; then the destruction of Antichrist and later Satan Himself in Revelation 19 through 22.
Time after time in the history of the Word we see nearly complete attempts to wipe out man; Satan corrupted men (I would argue through the Nephilim and their offspring) so that only Noah and his small family were saved out of it; the attempt to destroy God's lineage was also repeated with the attempted massacre of all the Jews in Esther's time; the Holocaust; and throughout history until today. During the Tribulation again he will fall short (see Zechariah 13:8 for example).
do you perceive what the Holy Spirit of Truth is revealing here?
Hebrews 6:1
therefore leaving the doctrines of Christ---not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. meaning sinning & repenting as a way of a Christian life
one of these doctrines was that of baptisms, its in the plural form, He's distinguishing from John's, which was only a type & shadow of Christ baptism. John only reach to the cleansing of the flesh, symbolic of the ritual cleansing of the Jewish law, which he was under.
Christ, the Substance brought the better things to come, the baptism that John point to & desired, it reaches to the heart, the center & seat of our very being. Hebrews 9:14
Cleansing out the seeds of the evil one. Hebrews 10:22 evil conscience--his presence must be there Mark 7:21
Thus, Holy Spirit is revealing there's Ephesians 4:5 that's required to reach to this state of perfection were we sin no more.
Friends, as I lay here, after responding to bro Dan last thread, I continue to feel the springs from the Fountain of Life bubbling up within me, my cup is running over, so I added then added again to that which I received,
Come on; Zechariah 13:1Isa 55:1-4 the Grace of God/ Light Rev 22:17
lets us Micah 4:2 the Jerusalem Gal 4:26 in Spirit & in Truth
Verse 1 states "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." This corresponds with the healing waters from the Temple in Ezekiel 47 as well as Revelation 20 for the nations of the world.
Verses 2 through 5 discuss the end of false prophets; even the death of a family member who prophesies lies. Verse 6 seems to also be a prophesy of Christ as well as a warning of how when the Lord returns there is no more toleration from anyone closely associated with a false prophet.
Verse 7 is clearly a prophesy of Christ as cross referenced in Matthew 26:31 since Christ quoted it.
Verse 8 and 9 discuss a subject I've mentioned previously in the posts on Zechariah; on the third that make it through the Tribulation. It should be noted that God hears them. I have also noted for those who think this is cruel as to the interpretation; that mankind will be rarer than gold overall when the Day of Judgment comes. ( Isaiah 13:12). Truly; the cost of rejecting their Messiah and many centuries of rebellion has cost Israel dearly as to blessings they could have had. Nonetheless, they are once again established in their homeland and they will never completely be annihilated there despite the gathering of all nations against them in the last days.
if God is speaking in parables when he is mentioning Israel and Jerusalem brought back to the land, and it is given to us to know the parables,
Can you or Gigi explain these three chapters of "parables" Zechariah chapters 12, 13, and 14?
Here are just a few verses.
Zechariah 12:2-3. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zechariah 13:9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zechariah 14:2. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Please take the liberty to read all three chapters.
I find it strange how two people can take entirely different paths or hermeneutic principles and end up at the same place on this topic.
David, you spiritualize the text as most do to get to a desired destination,
Gigi, you hitch a ride there, but don't believe in spiritualizing the text, "I've seen some of your debates with Alex and Earl"
Gigi, Can you explain what route you took to get to your viewpoint? Because if you don't believe in dispensationalism you are going to have to except Alex and Earls way of interpreting scripture to do away with these hundreds of Kingdom verses here on Earth.
We are 100% in agreement that the blood of Christ is by which we are saved throughout eternity.
Israel, "through the house of Israel" will be saved by the same way they were saved on the OT.
(But not all.) So, in Romans 11:26 where it says And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, I believe it's those of the house of Israel who will except Christ finished work on the cross. Their blindness will be removed when they call on Christ in the tribulation. You see the church is never called the house of Israel.
In the OT, before the Church was formed, those who were saved, by faith they looked ahead with those ordinances pointing them to one who would come as their redeemer "Christ"
We look back at the Cross in faith for our redemption, In the Millennium kingdom those who are saved will do the same.
Those who are saved will look back at the finish work of Christ on the cross. Everything else is a memorial. sacrifices etc.
During the tribulation period Israel will be driven to call on their Messiah as prophesied in Hosea 5:15. Also in Matthew 23:39.
obviously, they seen him again, He's saying you won't behold him again as a Nation. (They will remain blinded) as mentioned in Luke 19:42.
You also see this mentioned clearly in Zechariah 13:6-9.
Peter makes mention of a future salvation for the Nation/house of Israel in Acts 15:9-11 when studying it carefully.
And James follows it up in verses 14-17.
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
The prayer before picking out the Disciples who would be Apostles (the first four who were likely His first followers as quoted in Matthew 4:18-22) was going to concern the known traitor; Judas Iscariot. Psalm 41:9 being Holy Scripture was in His mind; no doubt along with other prophecies such as Zechariah 13:7 undoubtably Christ prayed ahead of time; knowing what He would have to deal with in the last days of His life. To have a known traitor there stealing money and who would lead to all the agony to come as well as dismay among Peter and all others who would run away in Gethsemene; would be something He would have to live with for the next 3 1/2 years.
As shown in the previous analysis of these verses; Jesus faced His Disciples during the Beatitudes. It is certain that He wanted them to understand from the get go the persecution they were facing; as well as demonstrating to the crowds that they would be the ones to eventually overcome; ruling and reigning with Christ ( Rev. 4:10-11 and other passages). They would also be given responsibility to continue the Great Commission even after He left this earth. Later there would be individual discipling and discussions with several Apostles who would be the prime focus of these efforts.
I may be different, but in my understanding of the Bible, I approach scripture simply and do not try to complicate things with preconceived ideas and let the Bible and the Holy Spirit do the interpretation. To me, a symbol will have a non-symbolic meaning.
A symbol represents something real, a real person, a real thing, or a historical event. When I read, I understand words in a literal sense first, then in a figurative or spiritual sense if the literal doesn't make sense.
Are the Christians now the Israel of God? Have the promises to Israel and the church merged into one common heritage? If so that brings up.
Will the promise of the land given to Abraham's seed, Isaac then Jacob be fulfilled? Isaiah 11:11-12Ezekiel 37:21-25Jeremiah 24:5-6Ezekiel 34:11-12Ezekiel 36:24-26Hosea 3:4-5Micah 4:6-7Zechariah 13:8-9
Will Jesus the Messiah return and reign on the earth, with a rod of iron? Isaiah 2:1-4Isaiah 11:1-4Daniel 2:44Daniel 7:14Zechariah 14:1-4Jeremiah 3:17Revelation 2:26-27Revelation 11:15Revelation 12:5Revelation 19:11-21.
Will there be a literal millennium during which Satan will not deceive the nations and Christ will reign on earth? Revelation 20:1-62 Timothy 2:11-12Isaiah 2:2-4Isaiah 11:5-16Isaiah 65:19-25Isaiah 51:4-5Zechariah 14:16-21Micah 4:1-4Psalms 46:7-11Matthew 19:28.
To me there are too many scriptures that are showing God has not replaced Israel with the Church. We see in Romans 11:24-27 a day when God will again turn to Israel, the day Jesus returns. Forgive me if some of the scriptures do not fit.
Zechariah 13:8 shows how two thirds perish and the other one third of national Israel go through the fire and are thus saved. Again; I will refer to those countless multitudes who go through this time of testing; as either new believers or those left behind (or both).
I referred before to many who are not producing fruit at present. Many I believe are hiding their light or have been rendered out of service by Satan because of legal access due to sin. This would include even Laodicians I would say. Fear of death ( Hebrews 2:15) has been a snare for many; it is something that the blood of Christ through the Spirit can make us overcome. It is surely true that some will when push comes to shove proclaim Christ; it is the cares of this world that for now have ensnared them. Many; of course will fall away and we are not to use such rationale as an excuse to continue in sin trusting that God will show mercy in such a way. The verses I've quoted show how God will reach all His sheep. This is why I am such a proponent of the Pre Trib rapture. True; some who aren't bold now and producing fruit may have it forced on them through the Tribulation (apparently meaing Tribulum or a way to rapidly bring wheat threshed to harvest). It has been proposed that the barley represents the early harvest or firstfruits; and the wheat or main harvest is later. I will get into that if there is an interest at another time and try to give references to others who have worked on that theory. There certainly is no room to be some sort of macho man thinking we will "brave it out" in the "not so bad" first half of the Trib. These are events including a plague that cannot be stopped to wipe out 1/4 of man. Whoever God chooses to purge this way I don't wish it on anyone nor want to endure it myself. Again; it is the demonic attacks on man directly and unrestrained evil where death and hell do prevail ( Rev. 6:8) which contradict ( Matt. 16:18; compare with Daniel 7:9.
I'm sorry Ruby, I don't see the connection with what I wrote on this point of the "Lake of Fire" & what you wrote (quoting Scriptures), on the 'third part of....'. Revelation 8:7-12, for example, speaks about a third part of trees, grass, sea, fish, ships, rivers, waters, sun, moon & stars being affected at the opening of the seventh Seal, a time when the Wrath of God is poured upon the whole Earth.
Whereas the OT Scriptures you gave allude to Israel's captivity & suffering through it & their restoration (even a third part of them) when they will say "The LORD is my God". Israel is yet to be refined, as passing through God's Fire ( Zechariah 13:9), but it won't be through the Lake of Fire, reserved as the final judgement of eternal torment to all who reject God, where even death & hell will finally be destroyed ( Revelation 20:10-15).
The 'refining fires' of God can come to all us, according to His Will & Purposes for our lives, but at the end, only the Lake of Fire, unlike any other disciplinary measure, will be the ultimate ruin of wicked man & spirit. To make the Lake of Fire (& you haven't suggested this in your comment now), as a refining work to eventually restore all mankind to a state of full spiritual healing & bliss, is totally inconsistent to biblical teaching & correct hermeneutics.
Revelation 16:21 And there fell upon man a great HAIL out of heaven, each stone about the weight of a talent (a talent weighs about 57 pounds): and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the HAIL; for the plague thereof was very great.
Since Revelation is symbolic, what is this a symbol of:
We have to go to the prophets:
Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one ....who is this MIGHTY and STRONG ONE? ..... it is JESUS, the WORD OF GOD ......which as a tempest of HAIL and a DESTROYING STORM ......the HAIL in Revelation is symbolic of the WORD OF GOD, and his words are going to DESTROY ALL DECEPTION FROM THE CARNAL MIND of his people.
Revelation 9:17 And I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat upon them, having breastplates of FIRE, and of JACINTH, and BRIMSTONE, and the heads of the horses were as heads of lions; and out of their mouths ISSUED FIRE and smoke and BRIMSTONE.
Revelation 9:18 And by these three were a THRID PART OF MAN KILLED, by the FIRE, and by the SMOKE, and by the BRIMSTONE, which issued out of their mouth.
This is symbolic, you can contain PHYSICAL fire and brimstone in ones mouth.
Isaiah 30:33 ...for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large; the pile thereof is FIRE and much wood; the BREATH OF THE LORD, like a stream of BRIMSTONE, doth kindle it.
Ezekiel 5:2 ...though shall burn a THIRD PART .....
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall take thereof a FEW ......
Ezekiel 5:4 .....and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire: for thereof (those destroyed in the fire) SHALL A FIRE COME FORTH ino all the house of Israel.
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ......
Revelation 8:7 And the third part of the trees were burnt up .....
Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood, but this (battle) shall be with BURNING and fuel of fire.
Isaiah 9:19 .... people shall be the fuel of the fire
Jesus was the fulfillment of Scripture in the Old Testament. Luke 24:19-27, Psalms 22, Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:6, & many more.
The Holy Scriptures are broken down in Books & Separated by New Testament & Old Testament, none of which have been accredited as authored by Jesus. However many believe all were written about Jesus (redemption ) The Old Testament is before Jesus was born. The New Testament begins with Jesus birth, death on cross, resurrection from the grave, the witnessed accounts of Jesus life, ministry, miracles. Then continues the Good News os Salvation & ministry of the Church. Christians & Messianic Jews believe in the New Testament as Christ The Messiah the promised everlasting savior. Psalms 93:2, 1Kings 9:5, Zechariah 6:12-13, Psalms 89:3,4, 1Chronicles 17:11-27, Hebrews 8,
Matthew 8:4, Jesus obeyed scripture, Mark 1:44, & Jesus parents on Earth obeyed scripture, Luke 2:22,
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit = Luke 11, John 20:21-22, Luke 12, Acts 1:5, John 14:16,26, John 15:26,
Galatians 3:7 certainly could be an answer to your question. It isn't merely the physical descendants of Abraham who are true children of God ( Romans 9:7-10). God has a remnant that He saves from both the Old and New Dispensations ( 1 Kings 19); Matthew 7:21).
Keep in mind also the difference between physically being preserved for a time and spiritual deliverance. These are both realities for the children of God in reverse order. In New Testament times as with Old many are called but few chosen ( Matt. 22:14). There are other verses showing how some experience some of the benefits of being in God's presence ( Hebrews 6:4) are still not ultimately saved. The parable of the sower and the seed illustrate this fact showing how the seed of truth must eventually not only take root but produce fruit. God enables that His Spirit reproduces good fruit in our lives as evidence that it is indwelling; not merely an external event. Hence all true believers are "sealed" until the Day of Redemption ( Ephesians 4:30).
In God's Providence there are some; such as the 1/3 that are preserved "going through the fire" ( Zechariah 13:9) who appear to make it physically through the Tribulation to repopulate the earth in the Millennium. That will include the handful of Gentiles that make it; although man is said in general to be "rarer than the gold of Ophir" who makes it through that way ( Isaiah 13:12).
Thus; these verses and a multitude of others makes it imperative that we "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). I personally believe that through God's sanctification process we all must get beyond our initial excitement over being a new believer as well as the trials of persecution AND temptations of the world to be "tested and approved" as true believers as part of the process of chastisement as God's adopted children. ( Romans 12:2; etc). The end of all those called and chosen in Him is glorification (read all of Romans 8:30).
alex1939..Hi Lollyman 7..Good Question..But i think they are both right...Jesus was speaking in the Spiritual realm of a heavenly Elijah which is the H.G. that is gonna turn folks hearts to the Children which are spirits...Jesus said that the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom...And that which is born of the spirit is spirit which are the Children of Promise which are born in us via his good seeds...Thats y he has to know us...Our hearts need to be turned to the H.G. the Child of Promise...Jesus was still on the cross when he was calling for Elijah... Matthew 27:46...But some said he was calling for God...Which is the H.G. that heavenly Elijah that will lead us into all truth...When he that spirit of truth is come ( the H.G. ) He will lead you into all truth...
..... Zechariah 13:7...Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered...The Cross ...His death..Then i will turn my hand to the little ones his Children...When a seed dies it multiplies thus his Children of Promise...Behold me and the Children the Lord has given me...Are they not for signs and wonders Which are spirits as he said that that which is born of the spirit is spirit which are his Children...Our New Heart and New spirit...Its God himself that wants to turn our hearts to the Children which is the H.G...God swore by his very self when he made that promise of multiplication...Thus the Children the H.G. that is gona be born in our hearts and minds...But all this was hid from the wise and prudent but is gona be revealed unto babes...the H.G...When that BOOK is opened that has the words of life...That he wrote with his own blood...Plz note the Kingdom does not come till the Woman is in Child birth ( the Children that are gona be born in our hearts)...Unless you receive the KINGDOM as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...And whosoever receiveth one such child in MY NAME receiveth me...There is a CHILD in your future which is the H.G. That Child of Promise...An Israel of God The H.G..
The concept of individual salvation as opposed to that of a family or larger association of individuals also can relate to our understanding of the Rapture. As Psalm 40 indicates; "many will see and fear" (verse 3) when we are lifted up from the miry clay possibly a reference to the Rapture/Resurrection of the saints. Romans 11:25 and other verses in Romans 12 may indicate that the Jews finally are provoked to jealousy when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That could also relate to the Second Coming according to some sources citing the Age of the Gentiles ending only when the Temple is cleansed and Christ returns at that time.
That is not something I am debating here. I have stated before that the many testimonies of visions or dreams of the Rapture if not almost all of them only talk about some experience as viewed by the individual themselves; whereas scripturally the whole Body of Christ is called out as a peculiar people; and a Holy Nation ( 1 Peter 2:9). We should note that in Revelation 13 the Beast who is Satan's emissary will curse those on earth AND those who dwell in heaven. The victory of the Rapture and Resurrection of the dead in Christ is for the church and of course primarily to glorify Christ within His church. At the end of every Dispensation there is a remnant preserved from it (such as Enoch and Elijah) and preserved THROUGH it such as Noah and Lot. Such principles; of course are also for the nation of Israel at large being saved (the one third that makes it through) seen in Zechariah 13:9. From Christ until the 144,000 are either translated or resurrected (again a controversy I won't get into here) there is the "firstfruits" (the first of which; of course was Christ). See 1 Corinthains 15 for further insight into these matters.
Concept Five: The unknown (children; infants and mentally disabled) in regard to those Raptured.
My next post will discuss this as well as what may precede this event.
Chris gave a good answer, I'd like to add to the discussion. Please note the verse right before, Jeremiah 29:11, Jeremiah 29:10, sometimes we want GOD to change our situations "right now", sometimes HE does, but I believe this promise, is for GOD's people when we need the encouragement for the troubled times & endurance in longer seasons. Notice in Daniel, he & his companions had went through many difficult moments but GOD in miraculous ways delivered them, protected them & even encouraged them. I believe it was after Daniel was thrown in the lions den that he fasted & humbly prayed about the promise made in Jeremiah 29:10,11, Daniel 9:1,2,3, still waiting on that promise of 70 years,
note Daniel 6:1,2,3, (for why I place the timing, seemingly after lions den) the noted scriptures referring to about Daniel's encouragement, & companions, some say "the greater the trial the greater the miraculous": Daniel 1:8,9,17, Daniel 2:12,13,17,23Daniel 3:12-27, Daniel 4:19,24,25, Daniel 5, Daniel 6:7,10,16,22,28, Daniel 9:23, Daniel 10:11,12,18, Daniel 11:1,
Luke 10:19, there are moments that are painful but when we look at Salvation, the pruning, witness to strengthen the Body of Believers, then we realize it didn't "hurt us".
I hope these scriptures give you strength & hope= 1Peter 4:12,13, 2Corinthians 1:3-7, John 15:1-2, 1Corinthians 4:5, 2Corinthians 3:2, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, 2Timothy 2:10, Psalms 30:5,
Endure even undue trials= 2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, remember Timothy was with Paul in ministry during persecution. 1Peter 2:19, Mark 13:13, James 5:10,11,
Dere plz just let me mention this scripture.... Exodus 12:13 back in the old covenant on the Day of Passover....God said when i see the blood i will pass over you....And now under this new covenant in his blood....Jesus is our passover lamb....If God over looked all their sins by the blood of an animal he will surely forgive all of humanity sins by the Blood of Jesus....Our passover lamb
.....1 ST Cor. 5:7 Christ is our pass over lamb.
..... Matthew 26:27 kjv ...When he had taken the cup he said this is my blood of the New Covenant drink ye all of it....
......Calvary was a New Covenant in his blood...And its all inclusive....I will KNOW THEM ALL....If i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me.
Hiya Dere Gbu....Dere salvation is for everybody...According to the New Covenant Jeremiah 31:34....I will KNOW them all from the least to the greatest thats everybody...And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more...And this New Covenant is what Jesus accomplished at Calvary....in his blood....And Isaiah 11 saw all the world coming under this New Covenant....He says that KNOWLEDGE shall cover the earth as the waters cover the Seas....This knowledge is a spritual intimacy that results in a birth of Christ in everybody....Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains...Thats y Jesus said if i be lifted up ( his blood of that New Covenant) I will draw all men unto me...There is a book in the right hand of the father that Jesus wrote with his own Blood...When that book is opened it gonna result in a Spritual pregnancy for all men....Thats y the woman n Rev. 12:5 is giving birth to the child that is gonna rule all nations...This intimacy KNOWLEDGE is gonna be to everyman....I will KNOW THEM ALL from the least to the greatest...Thats everybody....Thats y Isaiah 65 :1 is saying...I was found of them that sought me not i was made manifest to them that asked not after me....Everybody is gona get it...When we were yet sinners Jesus died for all of us....We are all bought and paid for by his blood...Everybody....At the CROSS we were all redeemed by the blood of the lamb....Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...period
.....Thats y God told Peter what i have made CLEAN ( BY THE blood of Jesus )...donot call common or unclean....( by commanding water baptism for the remission of sins).....AT the Cross that New Covenant in his BLOOD all sins were paid for...He is gonna pour out of his spirit on all flesh....Thats everybody...The old covenant many were called few chosen..but the New Covenant is all Inclusive....i will know them ALL from the least to the Greatest..In Adam we all die but in CHRIST WE WILL ALL LIVE...
Salvation is for everyone who believes and is baptized. Here are some scriptures:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 10:9 That if thou Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
Acts 19:34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said, of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter if persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation here that feareth him and worker's righteousness is accepted with him.
John 3:17-19. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
HE THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: ""BUT" HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
There is many that won't be saved because they seek another way.
Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:21-23. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Anyone that says otherwise beware of them.
Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let HIM THAT HEARETH say, Come. And let HIM THAT IS A THIRST come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.
Romans 10:9-10. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND SHALT BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto man once to DIE; but after this the judgement.
This death happens by THE COMING OF THE LORD, HIM in YOU, his body.
This SECOND COMING cannot be seen: it comes like a thief in the night.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was ONCE OFFERED (first coming of Christ) to bear the sins of many; and to them who LOOK for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (second coming CHRIST as the HOLY GHOST) without sin, UNTO SALVATION.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.
Revelation 9:18 By these was the THIRD PART of man KILLED (first death, not literal), by the FIRE, and the SMOKE, and the BRIMSTONE, which ISSUED OUT OF THEIR MOUTH.
All of us, THE DECEIVED, are KILLED, destroyed, by GOD'S WORD.
All that is LEFT is TRUTH and LIFE.
John 14:6 ....I AM TRUTH .....I AM LIFE ....
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall BURN WITH FIRE a THIRD PART .....
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ...
Zechariah 13:8 And it SHALL COME TO PASS, that in all the land, TWO PARTS shall be cut off and DIE (literal, go to the grave); but the THIRD PART shall BE LEFT (never see death) therein.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we (that died the first death, that came to the truth of Christ's resurrection) SHALL REMAIN (having become ONE WITH TRUTH: CHRIST) and be CAUGHT UP together with THEM (the Old Testament Saints, resurrected with Christ) in the clouds (symbolic of God's Temple, the cloud was always over the tabernacle of the Old Covenant), to meet the Lord on the air, so shall we ever be (in the presence) with the Lord (the IMAGE OF CHRIST).
Zechariah 12:7 And the Lord shall save the tents of Judah FIRST (the Old Testament Saints; resurrected with Christ), that the GLORY of the HOUSE OF DAVID (those born again of TRUTH) and the glory of the house of Jerusalem (same people) do not magnify themselves against the house of Judah.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will DO NOTHING, but he revealeth his SECRET to his servants the Prophets.
Is it not unbelief, fearfulness, lying, hating his brothers, etc.
The same fire and brimstone that is the second death (after the second resurrection) is also the first death (after the first resurrection); that the overcomer goes through.
Revelation 9:18 By these three were the "THIRD PART" (the overcomers) of man killed (first death), by the fire, by the smoke, and by brimstone, which issued of of their mouth.
Issued out of THEIR MOUTH ....the WORD OF GOD .....the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.
The THIRD PART:
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD PART .....
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shalt also take thereof A FEW in number ....
Ezekiel 5:4 And take of THEM (the FEW) again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire, for THEREOF shall A FIRE come forth unto the house of Israel.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, TWO THIRDS shall be cut off and DIE, but the THIRD PART shall be left therein ( Luke 17:34-35).
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the fire.
Obadiah 1:18 ...and the house of Jacob SHALL BE A FIRE, and the house of Joseph A FLAME, and the house of Esau stubble, and THEY shall kindle IN THEM, and DEVOUR THEM ......
IN THEM: You don't go to heaven.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours (those who are the image of Christ) shall come upon mount Zion TO JUDGE the mount of ESAU; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
It takes all the books of the PROPHETS to understand the PARABLE ( Matthew 13:34) of the rich man and Lazarus.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will DO NOTHING, but he REVEALETH his secret unto his servants the PROPHETS.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, if they HEAR NOT Mosses and the PROPHETS, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
No where in Moses and the prophets does it prophesy that anyone goes to heaven or hell. It prophesies that there will be a Kingdom of God.
The books of the prophets, prophesies, that the elect will BE BROUGHT through the fire; not avoid it.
It prophesies that only a third will be brought through the fire in this age; the others will go to the grave and wait for the resurrection to the next age.
Revelation is a second witness to the prophecies.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two thirds shall be cut off and die, and a THIRD shall be left therein ( Luke 17:34-35).
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ..
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD part ..
Ezekiel 5:3 ..take THEREOF a few in number ..
Ezekiel 5:4 ...take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire, for THEREOF shall a fire COME FORTH into all the house of Israel.
Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a FLAME ....
Luke 16:24 ....for I am tormented in this FLAME.
Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written, this HONOUR hath all his Saints.
Obadiah 1:21 And Saviours (those that have obtained the next age, the IMAGE OF CHRIST) shall come on mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau, and the Kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
Zechariah 12:8 And in that day ( Revelation 20:9) shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David, and the house of David shall be as (the image of) GOD, and the angel of the LORD before them.
John 21:16,17, Jesus said this directly to one person, Simon, Son of Jonas, called Peter. To understand more deeply, you would have to follow the scriptures that happened prior.
Please read: John 10:1-18, Psalms 100:3,
Luke 12:22-32,
Matthew 26:31-75, Mark 14:27-72, Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, prophecy from Old Testament: Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:7,
Example of people lovingly referred to as sheep : 2Samuel 24:17, 1Chronicles 21:17, 2Chronicles 18:16, Psalms 74:1, Psalms 78:52, Psalms 79:13, Ezekiel 34:6,
Matthew 9:26, Matthew 18:12,13, Mark 6:24, 1Peter 2:25, compassion,
Deuteronomy 8:3,
John 6:47-69, notice in that moment "Simon Peter"'s reply: John 6:68,
Genesis 44:18-34, Judah offers to be taken prisoner & suffer for his brother's accused crimes, because of the love he had for his father. Note: John 10:14-42, John 14, John 17, John 3:10-21,
Note: Exodus 12:35-38, Exodus 12:48, Esther 8:17,
Genesis 49:1,2,8,9,10,11,12, Genesis 46:12, Luke 3:23-38, Hebrews 7, Hebrews 8:7-13, - Hebrews 9, Matthew 2:1,5,6, Revelation 5:5,
Notice Genesis 49:10,11,12 = Matthew 21:1-16, Mark 11:1-10, Luke 19:30-46, John 12:11-16, Matthew 26:17-56, Mark 14:1-72, Luke 22:1-20,37,
Zechariah 13:6, Psalms 22:1,7,8,14,15,16,17,18,30,31, Matthew 27:35,37,41,43,46,51,52,53, Mark 15:3,6,15,20,24,27,28,29,31,32,34,38,
John 19:11,14,16,18,19,20,23,24,28,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,
Romans 11:16-24 shows Israel as distinct from the Church: the "natural branches" are the Jews, and the "wild branches" are the Gentiles.
The "olive tree" is the collective people of God. The "natural branches" (Jews) are "cut off" the tree for unbelief, and the "wild branches" (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews "jealous" and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be grafted in again and receive their promised inheritance.
The natural branches are still distinct from the "wild branches," so that God's covenant with His people is literally fulfilled.
Romans 11:26-29, citing Isaiah 59:20-21 Isaiah 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34
Isaiah 62:11-12 "Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
Moses' prediction of Israel's permanent restoration to the land in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.
Moses said, "THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEARTS!!
SO HOW WILL "ALL ISRAEL BE SAVED?
Zechariah 8-14 , which speak of end-times Israel at Christ's return.
The key verse describing the coming to faith of the future remnant of Israel is Zechariah 12:10.
This occurs at the end of the tribulation.
Also; Zechariah 8:7-8.
Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth ( Isaiah 11:12.
Isaiah 62:10.
Zechariah 13:8-9
Isaiah 12:1-6 is their song of deliverance.
God bless.
The statement of weeping in Ramah is echoed here from the passage in the Old Testament in Jeremiah. This signifies another one of Satan's attempts to wipe out the godly seed; reflecting the age old battle started in Genesis 3:15.
When we see the story of Christ from His birth to His death Satan was given license to come within inches of his goal; in the former situation killing every male child through Herod's persecution except for that of Joseph and Mary which was thwarted by supernatural intervention ( Matt. 2:13-23) after the Magi were warned previously to return to their homeland by a different route whence they came. No doubt at His death Satan thought he was granted total success in killing the Son of God at the cross but Judas Iscariot at least realized that he had been part of killing a just man; sadly it was worldly sorrow rather than godly sorrow leading to repentance in this case. Satan and the demons; unlike man KNOW who Christ is; as James states the demons believe and tremble ( James 2:19). The forces of evil should have known that a member of the Godhead is indeed invincible; even over death; certainly Satan's defeat echoing the prophecy in Genesis about his head being destroyed was at least partially fulfilled; I would argue in Revelation comes another fulfillment; with the deadly wound healed of Antichrist Satan's agent; then the destruction of Antichrist and later Satan Himself in Revelation 19 through 22.
Time after time in the history of the Word we see nearly complete attempts to wipe out man; Satan corrupted men (I would argue through the Nephilim and their offspring) so that only Noah and his small family were saved out of it; the attempt to destroy God's lineage was also repeated with the attempted massacre of all the Jews in Esther's time; the Holocaust; and throughout history until today. During the Tribulation again he will fall short (see Zechariah 13:8 for example).
May we rejoice that His victory is assured.
do you perceive what the Holy Spirit of Truth is revealing here?
Hebrews 6:1
therefore leaving the doctrines of Christ---not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. meaning sinning & repenting as a way of a Christian life
one of these doctrines was that of baptisms, its in the plural form, He's distinguishing from John's, which was only a type & shadow of Christ baptism. John only reach to the cleansing of the flesh, symbolic of the ritual cleansing of the Jewish law, which he was under.
Christ, the Substance brought the better things to come, the baptism that John point to & desired, it reaches to the heart, the center & seat of our very being. Hebrews 9:14
Cleansing out the seeds of the evil one. Hebrews 10:22 evil conscience--his presence must be there Mark 7:21
Thus, Holy Spirit is revealing there's Ephesians 4:5 that's required to reach to this state of perfection were we sin no more.
Friends, as I lay here, after responding to bro Dan last thread, I continue to feel the springs from the Fountain of Life bubbling up within me, my cup is running over, so I added then added again to that which I received,
Come on; Zechariah 13:1 Isa 55:1-4 the Grace of God/ Light Rev 22:17
lets us Micah 4:2 the Jerusalem Gal 4:26 in Spirit & in Truth
in love & truth
Verse 1 states "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." This corresponds with the healing waters from the Temple in Ezekiel 47 as well as Revelation 20 for the nations of the world.
Verses 2 through 5 discuss the end of false prophets; even the death of a family member who prophesies lies. Verse 6 seems to also be a prophesy of Christ as well as a warning of how when the Lord returns there is no more toleration from anyone closely associated with a false prophet.
Verse 7 is clearly a prophesy of Christ as cross referenced in Matthew 26:31 since Christ quoted it.
Verse 8 and 9 discuss a subject I've mentioned previously in the posts on Zechariah; on the third that make it through the Tribulation. It should be noted that God hears them. I have also noted for those who think this is cruel as to the interpretation; that mankind will be rarer than gold overall when the Day of Judgment comes. ( Isaiah 13:12). Truly; the cost of rejecting their Messiah and many centuries of rebellion has cost Israel dearly as to blessings they could have had. Nonetheless, they are once again established in their homeland and they will never completely be annihilated there despite the gathering of all nations against them in the last days.
Part 4.
David
if God is speaking in parables when he is mentioning Israel and Jerusalem brought back to the land, and it is given to us to know the parables,
Can you or Gigi explain these three chapters of "parables" Zechariah chapters 12, 13, and 14?
Here are just a few verses.
Zechariah 12:2-3. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zechariah 13:9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Zechariah 14:2. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Please take the liberty to read all three chapters.
I find it strange how two people can take entirely different paths or hermeneutic principles and end up at the same place on this topic.
David, you spiritualize the text as most do to get to a desired destination,
Gigi, you hitch a ride there, but don't believe in spiritualizing the text, "I've seen some of your debates with Alex and Earl"
Gigi, Can you explain what route you took to get to your viewpoint? Because if you don't believe in dispensationalism you are going to have to except Alex and Earls way of interpreting scripture to do away with these hundreds of Kingdom verses here on Earth.
See Part 5.
Part 1
We are 100% in agreement that the blood of Christ is by which we are saved throughout eternity.
Israel, "through the house of Israel" will be saved by the same way they were saved on the OT.
(But not all.) So, in Romans 11:26 where it says And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, I believe it's those of the house of Israel who will except Christ finished work on the cross. Their blindness will be removed when they call on Christ in the tribulation. You see the church is never called the house of Israel.
In the OT, before the Church was formed, those who were saved, by faith they looked ahead with those ordinances pointing them to one who would come as their redeemer "Christ"
We look back at the Cross in faith for our redemption, In the Millennium kingdom those who are saved will do the same.
Those who are saved will look back at the finish work of Christ on the cross. Everything else is a memorial. sacrifices etc.
During the tribulation period Israel will be driven to call on their Messiah as prophesied in Hosea 5:15. Also in Matthew 23:39.
obviously, they seen him again, He's saying you won't behold him again as a Nation. (They will remain blinded) as mentioned in Luke 19:42.
You also see this mentioned clearly in Zechariah 13:6-9.
Peter makes mention of a future salvation for the Nation/house of Israel in Acts 15:9-11 when studying it carefully.
And James follows it up in verses 14-17.
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
See part 2.
The prayer before picking out the Disciples who would be Apostles (the first four who were likely His first followers as quoted in Matthew 4:18-22) was going to concern the known traitor; Judas Iscariot. Psalm 41:9 being Holy Scripture was in His mind; no doubt along with other prophecies such as Zechariah 13:7 undoubtably Christ prayed ahead of time; knowing what He would have to deal with in the last days of His life. To have a known traitor there stealing money and who would lead to all the agony to come as well as dismay among Peter and all others who would run away in Gethsemene; would be something He would have to live with for the next 3 1/2 years.
As shown in the previous analysis of these verses; Jesus faced His Disciples during the Beatitudes. It is certain that He wanted them to understand from the get go the persecution they were facing; as well as demonstrating to the crowds that they would be the ones to eventually overcome; ruling and reigning with Christ ( Rev. 4:10-11 and other passages). They would also be given responsibility to continue the Great Commission even after He left this earth. Later there would be individual discipling and discussions with several Apostles who would be the prime focus of these efforts.
I may be different, but in my understanding of the Bible, I approach scripture simply and do not try to complicate things with preconceived ideas and let the Bible and the Holy Spirit do the interpretation. To me, a symbol will have a non-symbolic meaning.
A symbol represents something real, a real person, a real thing, or a historical event. When I read, I understand words in a literal sense first, then in a figurative or spiritual sense if the literal doesn't make sense.
Are the Christians now the Israel of God? Have the promises to Israel and the church merged into one common heritage? If so that brings up.
Will the promise of the land given to Abraham's seed, Isaac then Jacob be fulfilled? Isaiah 11:11-12 Ezekiel 37:21-25 Jeremiah 24:5-6 Ezekiel 34:11-12 Ezekiel 36:24-26 Hosea 3:4-5 Micah 4:6-7 Zechariah 13:8-9
Will Jesus the Messiah return and reign on the earth, with a rod of iron? Isaiah 2:1-4 Isaiah 11:1-4 Daniel 2:44 Daniel 7:14 Zechariah 14:1-4 Jeremiah 3:17 Revelation 2:26-27 Revelation 11:15 Revelation 12:5 Revelation 19:11-21.
Will there be a literal millennium during which Satan will not deceive the nations and Christ will reign on earth? Revelation 20:1-6 2 Timothy 2:11-12 Isaiah 2:2-4 Isaiah 11:5-16 Isaiah 65:19-25 Isaiah 51:4-5 Zechariah 14:16-21 Micah 4:1-4 Psalms 46:7-11 Matthew 19:28.
To me there are too many scriptures that are showing God has not replaced Israel with the Church. We see in Romans 11:24-27 a day when God will again turn to Israel, the day Jesus returns. Forgive me if some of the scriptures do not fit.
God bless,
RLW
I referred before to many who are not producing fruit at present. Many I believe are hiding their light or have been rendered out of service by Satan because of legal access due to sin. This would include even Laodicians I would say. Fear of death ( Hebrews 2:15) has been a snare for many; it is something that the blood of Christ through the Spirit can make us overcome. It is surely true that some will when push comes to shove proclaim Christ; it is the cares of this world that for now have ensnared them. Many; of course will fall away and we are not to use such rationale as an excuse to continue in sin trusting that God will show mercy in such a way. The verses I've quoted show how God will reach all His sheep. This is why I am such a proponent of the Pre Trib rapture. True; some who aren't bold now and producing fruit may have it forced on them through the Tribulation (apparently meaing Tribulum or a way to rapidly bring wheat threshed to harvest). It has been proposed that the barley represents the early harvest or firstfruits; and the wheat or main harvest is later. I will get into that if there is an interest at another time and try to give references to others who have worked on that theory. There certainly is no room to be some sort of macho man thinking we will "brave it out" in the "not so bad" first half of the Trib. These are events including a plague that cannot be stopped to wipe out 1/4 of man. Whoever God chooses to purge this way I don't wish it on anyone nor want to endure it myself. Again; it is the demonic attacks on man directly and unrestrained evil where death and hell do prevail ( Rev. 6:8) which contradict ( Matt. 16:18; compare with Daniel 7:9.
Agape.
Whereas the OT Scriptures you gave allude to Israel's captivity & suffering through it & their restoration (even a third part of them) when they will say "The LORD is my God". Israel is yet to be refined, as passing through God's Fire ( Zechariah 13:9), but it won't be through the Lake of Fire, reserved as the final judgement of eternal torment to all who reject God, where even death & hell will finally be destroyed ( Revelation 20:10-15).
The 'refining fires' of God can come to all us, according to His Will & Purposes for our lives, but at the end, only the Lake of Fire, unlike any other disciplinary measure, will be the ultimate ruin of wicked man & spirit. To make the Lake of Fire (& you haven't suggested this in your comment now), as a refining work to eventually restore all mankind to a state of full spiritual healing & bliss, is totally inconsistent to biblical teaching & correct hermeneutics.
Revelation 16:21 And there fell upon man a great HAIL out of heaven, each stone about the weight of a talent (a talent weighs about 57 pounds): and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the HAIL; for the plague thereof was very great.
Since Revelation is symbolic, what is this a symbol of:
We have to go to the prophets:
Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one ....who is this MIGHTY and STRONG ONE? ..... it is JESUS, the WORD OF GOD ......which as a tempest of HAIL and a DESTROYING STORM ......the HAIL in Revelation is symbolic of the WORD OF GOD, and his words are going to DESTROY ALL DECEPTION FROM THE CARNAL MIND of his people.
Revelation 9:17 And I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat upon them, having breastplates of FIRE, and of JACINTH, and BRIMSTONE, and the heads of the horses were as heads of lions; and out of their mouths ISSUED FIRE and smoke and BRIMSTONE.
Revelation 9:18 And by these three were a THRID PART OF MAN KILLED, by the FIRE, and by the SMOKE, and by the BRIMSTONE, which issued out of their mouth.
This is symbolic, you can contain PHYSICAL fire and brimstone in ones mouth.
Isaiah 30:33 ...for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large; the pile thereof is FIRE and much wood; the BREATH OF THE LORD, like a stream of BRIMSTONE, doth kindle it.
Ezekiel 5:2 ...though shall burn a THIRD PART .....
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall take thereof a FEW ......
Ezekiel 5:4 .....and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire: for thereof (those destroyed in the fire) SHALL A FIRE COME FORTH ino all the house of Israel.
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ......
Revelation 8:7 And the third part of the trees were burnt up .....
Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood, but this (battle) shall be with BURNING and fuel of fire.
Isaiah 9:19 .... people shall be the fuel of the fire
In Revelation it is necessary to understand who the THIRD are, they are also killed in the lake of fire.
Revelation 8
Ezekiel 5:1-5
Ezekiel 5:12
Zechariah 13:8-9
Isaiah is full of a destroying fire, that you don't sit before to keep warm.
God Bless YOU
The Holy Scriptures are broken down in Books & Separated by New Testament & Old Testament, none of which have been accredited as authored by Jesus. However many believe all were written about Jesus (redemption ) The Old Testament is before Jesus was born. The New Testament begins with Jesus birth, death on cross, resurrection from the grave, the witnessed accounts of Jesus life, ministry, miracles. Then continues the Good News os Salvation & ministry of the Church. Christians & Messianic Jews believe in the New Testament as Christ The Messiah the promised everlasting savior. Psalms 93:2, 1Kings 9:5, Zechariah 6:12-13, Psalms 89:3,4, 1Chronicles 17:11-27, Hebrews 8,
Matthew 8:4, Jesus obeyed scripture, Mark 1:44, & Jesus parents on Earth obeyed scripture, Luke 2:22,
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit = Luke 11, John 20:21-22, Luke 12, Acts 1:5, John 14:16,26, John 15:26,
2Timothy 3:16
Hope these are helpful
Keep in mind also the difference between physically being preserved for a time and spiritual deliverance. These are both realities for the children of God in reverse order. In New Testament times as with Old many are called but few chosen ( Matt. 22:14). There are other verses showing how some experience some of the benefits of being in God's presence ( Hebrews 6:4) are still not ultimately saved. The parable of the sower and the seed illustrate this fact showing how the seed of truth must eventually not only take root but produce fruit. God enables that His Spirit reproduces good fruit in our lives as evidence that it is indwelling; not merely an external event. Hence all true believers are "sealed" until the Day of Redemption ( Ephesians 4:30).
In God's Providence there are some; such as the 1/3 that are preserved "going through the fire" ( Zechariah 13:9) who appear to make it physically through the Tribulation to repopulate the earth in the Millennium. That will include the handful of Gentiles that make it; although man is said in general to be "rarer than the gold of Ophir" who makes it through that way ( Isaiah 13:12).
Thus; these verses and a multitude of others makes it imperative that we "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). I personally believe that through God's sanctification process we all must get beyond our initial excitement over being a new believer as well as the trials of persecution AND temptations of the world to be "tested and approved" as true believers as part of the process of chastisement as God's adopted children. ( Romans 12:2; etc). The end of all those called and chosen in Him is glorification (read all of Romans 8:30).
Hope this helps.
..... Zechariah 13:7...Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered...The Cross ...His death..Then i will turn my hand to the little ones his Children...When a seed dies it multiplies thus his Children of Promise...Behold me and the Children the Lord has given me...Are they not for signs and wonders Which are spirits as he said that that which is born of the spirit is spirit which are his Children...Our New Heart and New spirit...Its God himself that wants to turn our hearts to the Children which is the H.G...God swore by his very self when he made that promise of multiplication...Thus the Children the H.G. that is gona be born in our hearts and minds...But all this was hid from the wise and prudent but is gona be revealed unto babes...the H.G...When that BOOK is opened that has the words of life...That he wrote with his own blood...Plz note the Kingdom does not come till the Woman is in Child birth ( the Children that are gona be born in our hearts)...Unless you receive the KINGDOM as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...And whosoever receiveth one such child in MY NAME receiveth me...There is a CHILD in your future which is the H.G. That Child of Promise...An Israel of God The H.G..
The concept of individual salvation as opposed to that of a family or larger association of individuals also can relate to our understanding of the Rapture. As Psalm 40 indicates; "many will see and fear" (verse 3) when we are lifted up from the miry clay possibly a reference to the Rapture/Resurrection of the saints. Romans 11:25 and other verses in Romans 12 may indicate that the Jews finally are provoked to jealousy when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That could also relate to the Second Coming according to some sources citing the Age of the Gentiles ending only when the Temple is cleansed and Christ returns at that time.
That is not something I am debating here. I have stated before that the many testimonies of visions or dreams of the Rapture if not almost all of them only talk about some experience as viewed by the individual themselves; whereas scripturally the whole Body of Christ is called out as a peculiar people; and a Holy Nation ( 1 Peter 2:9). We should note that in Revelation 13 the Beast who is Satan's emissary will curse those on earth AND those who dwell in heaven. The victory of the Rapture and Resurrection of the dead in Christ is for the church and of course primarily to glorify Christ within His church. At the end of every Dispensation there is a remnant preserved from it (such as Enoch and Elijah) and preserved THROUGH it such as Noah and Lot. Such principles; of course are also for the nation of Israel at large being saved (the one third that makes it through) seen in Zechariah 13:9. From Christ until the 144,000 are either translated or resurrected (again a controversy I won't get into here) there is the "firstfruits" (the first of which; of course was Christ). See 1 Corinthains 15 for further insight into these matters.
Concept Five: The unknown (children; infants and mentally disabled) in regard to those Raptured.
My next post will discuss this as well as what may precede this event.
Matthew 16:13-17, Luke 4:40,41, Matthew 15:29-38, Isaiah 42:1-7, Matthew 12:17-23,
Luke 24:6,7,15,16,27, in context Luke 24, Luke 23,
Hopefully these are helpful
Chris gave a good answer, I'd like to add to the discussion. Please note the verse right before, Jeremiah 29:11, Jeremiah 29:10, sometimes we want GOD to change our situations "right now", sometimes HE does, but I believe this promise, is for GOD's people when we need the encouragement for the troubled times & endurance in longer seasons. Notice in Daniel, he & his companions had went through many difficult moments but GOD in miraculous ways delivered them, protected them & even encouraged them. I believe it was after Daniel was thrown in the lions den that he fasted & humbly prayed about the promise made in Jeremiah 29:10,11, Daniel 9:1,2,3, still waiting on that promise of 70 years,
note Daniel 6:1,2,3, (for why I place the timing, seemingly after lions den) the noted scriptures referring to about Daniel's encouragement, & companions, some say "the greater the trial the greater the miraculous": Daniel 1:8,9,17, Daniel 2:12,13,17,23 Daniel 3:12-27, Daniel 4:19,24,25, Daniel 5, Daniel 6:7,10,16,22,28, Daniel 9:23, Daniel 10:11,12,18, Daniel 11:1,
Luke 10:19, there are moments that are painful but when we look at Salvation, the pruning, witness to strengthen the Body of Believers, then we realize it didn't "hurt us".
I hope these scriptures give you strength & hope= 1Peter 4:12,13, 2Corinthians 1:3-7, John 15:1-2, 1Corinthians 4:5, 2Corinthians 3:2, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, 2Timothy 2:10, Psalms 30:5,
In correction= Isaiah 48:10,11, Malachi 3:2, Proverbs 3:11-35, Hebrews 12:7, 2Thessalonians 1:4,
Endure even undue trials= 2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, remember Timothy was with Paul in ministry during persecution. 1Peter 2:19, Mark 13:13, James 5:10,11,
James 5:13-18, 2Chronicles 7:14,
Hopefully these are helpful & encouraging
.....1 ST Cor. 5:7 Christ is our pass over lamb.
..... Matthew 26:27 kjv ...When he had taken the cup he said this is my blood of the New Covenant drink ye all of it....
......Calvary was a New Covenant in his blood...And its all inclusive....I will KNOW THEM ALL....If i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me.
.....Thats y God told Peter what i have made CLEAN ( BY THE blood of Jesus )...donot call common or unclean....( by commanding water baptism for the remission of sins).....AT the Cross that New Covenant in his BLOOD all sins were paid for...He is gonna pour out of his spirit on all flesh....Thats everybody...The old covenant many were called few chosen..but the New Covenant is all Inclusive....i will know them ALL from the least to the Greatest..In Adam we all die but in CHRIST WE WILL ALL LIVE...
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 10:9 That if thou Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
Acts 19:34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said, of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter if persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation here that feareth him and worker's righteousness is accepted with him.
Here is the conclusion.
John 3:17-19. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
HE THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: ""BUT" HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
There is many that won't be saved because they seek another way.
Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:21-23. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Anyone that says otherwise beware of them.
Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
God bless.
Salvation is so YOU will never die; but are GIVEN eternal life.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, God hath GIVEN to us eternal LIFE, and THAT LIFE is his SON.
YOU DIED with Christ on the cross.
YOU AROSE, a new creation, the LIFE of Christ IN YOU: you are the body of Christ.
1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light ....
1 Corinthians 15:53 .....and this mortal (you) SHALL PUT ON IMMORTALITY .....Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY.
1 Corinthians 15:54 .....Death is swallowed up in victory ......
Colossians 1:27 .....this MYSTERY .....Christ in YOU .....
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the BODY of Christ ....
Psalms 82:6 I have said, YOU are gods, the children of the most high.
This is the GOOD NEWS of the gospel.
God bless you!
Salvation goes out to everyone.
John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let HIM THAT HEARETH say, Come. And let HIM THAT IS A THIRST come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.
Romans 10:9-10. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND SHALT BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto man once to DIE; but after this the judgement.
This death happens by THE COMING OF THE LORD, HIM in YOU, his body.
This SECOND COMING cannot be seen: it comes like a thief in the night.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was ONCE OFFERED (first coming of Christ) to bear the sins of many; and to them who LOOK for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (second coming CHRIST as the HOLY GHOST) without sin, UNTO SALVATION.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.
Revelation 9:18 By these was the THIRD PART of man KILLED (first death, not literal), by the FIRE, and the SMOKE, and the BRIMSTONE, which ISSUED OUT OF THEIR MOUTH.
All of us, THE DECEIVED, are KILLED, destroyed, by GOD'S WORD.
All that is LEFT is TRUTH and LIFE.
John 14:6 ....I AM TRUTH .....I AM LIFE ....
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall BURN WITH FIRE a THIRD PART .....
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ...
Zechariah 13:8 And it SHALL COME TO PASS, that in all the land, TWO PARTS shall be cut off and DIE (literal, go to the grave); but the THIRD PART shall BE LEFT (never see death) therein.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we (that died the first death, that came to the truth of Christ's resurrection) SHALL REMAIN (having become ONE WITH TRUTH: CHRIST) and be CAUGHT UP together with THEM (the Old Testament Saints, resurrected with Christ) in the clouds (symbolic of God's Temple, the cloud was always over the tabernacle of the Old Covenant), to meet the Lord on the air, so shall we ever be (in the presence) with the Lord (the IMAGE OF CHRIST).
Zechariah 12:7 And the Lord shall save the tents of Judah FIRST (the Old Testament Saints; resurrected with Christ), that the GLORY of the HOUSE OF DAVID (those born again of TRUTH) and the glory of the house of Jerusalem (same people) do not magnify themselves against the house of Judah.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will DO NOTHING, but he revealeth his SECRET to his servants the Prophets.
What does the overcomer, overcome:
Is it not unbelief, fearfulness, lying, hating his brothers, etc.
The same fire and brimstone that is the second death (after the second resurrection) is also the first death (after the first resurrection); that the overcomer goes through.
Revelation 9:18 By these three were the "THIRD PART" (the overcomers) of man killed (first death), by the fire, by the smoke, and by brimstone, which issued of of their mouth.
Issued out of THEIR MOUTH ....the WORD OF GOD .....the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.
The THIRD PART:
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD PART .....
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shalt also take thereof A FEW in number ....
Ezekiel 5:4 And take of THEM (the FEW) again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire, for THEREOF shall A FIRE come forth unto the house of Israel.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, TWO THIRDS shall be cut off and DIE, but the THIRD PART shall be left therein ( Luke 17:34-35).
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the fire.
Obadiah 1:18 ...and the house of Jacob SHALL BE A FIRE, and the house of Joseph A FLAME, and the house of Esau stubble, and THEY shall kindle IN THEM, and DEVOUR THEM ......
IN THEM: You don't go to heaven.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours (those who are the image of Christ) shall come upon mount Zion TO JUDGE the mount of ESAU; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
God Bless YOU.
It takes all the books of the PROPHETS to understand the PARABLE ( Matthew 13:34) of the rich man and Lazarus.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will DO NOTHING, but he REVEALETH his secret unto his servants the PROPHETS.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, if they HEAR NOT Mosses and the PROPHETS, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
No where in Moses and the prophets does it prophesy that anyone goes to heaven or hell. It prophesies that there will be a Kingdom of God.
The books of the prophets, prophesies, that the elect will BE BROUGHT through the fire; not avoid it.
It prophesies that only a third will be brought through the fire in this age; the others will go to the grave and wait for the resurrection to the next age.
Revelation is a second witness to the prophecies.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two thirds shall be cut off and die, and a THIRD shall be left therein ( Luke 17:34-35).
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ..
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD part ..
Ezekiel 5:3 ..take THEREOF a few in number ..
Ezekiel 5:4 ...take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire, for THEREOF shall a fire COME FORTH into all the house of Israel.
Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a FLAME ....
Luke 16:24 ....for I am tormented in this FLAME.
Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written, this HONOUR hath all his Saints.
Obadiah 1:21 And Saviours (those that have obtained the next age, the IMAGE OF CHRIST) shall come on mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau, and the Kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
Zechariah 12:8 And in that day ( Revelation 20:9) shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David, and the house of David shall be as (the image of) GOD, and the angel of the LORD before them.
Please read: John 10:1-18, Psalms 100:3,
Luke 12:22-32,
Matthew 26:31-75, Mark 14:27-72, Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, prophecy from Old Testament: Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:7,
Example of people lovingly referred to as sheep : 2Samuel 24:17, 1Chronicles 21:17, 2Chronicles 18:16, Psalms 74:1, Psalms 78:52, Psalms 79:13, Ezekiel 34:6,
Matthew 9:26, Matthew 18:12,13, Mark 6:24, 1Peter 2:25, compassion,
Deuteronomy 8:3,
John 6:47-69, notice in that moment "Simon Peter"'s reply: John 6:68,
Hopefully these are helpful
Please note: Genesis 29:31-35, Genesis 35:23,
Genesis 44:18-34, Judah offers to be taken prisoner & suffer for his brother's accused crimes, because of the love he had for his father. Note: John 10:14-42, John 14, John 17, John 3:10-21,
Note: Exodus 12:35-38, Exodus 12:48, Esther 8:17,
Genesis 49:1,2,8,9,10,11,12, Genesis 46:12, Luke 3:23-38, Hebrews 7, Hebrews 8:7-13, - Hebrews 9, Matthew 2:1,5,6, Revelation 5:5,
Notice Genesis 49:10,11,12 = Matthew 21:1-16, Mark 11:1-10, Luke 19:30-46, John 12:11-16, Matthew 26:17-56, Mark 14:1-72, Luke 22:1-20,37,
Zechariah 13:6, Psalms 22:1,7,8,14,15,16,17,18,30,31, Matthew 27:35,37,41,43,46,51,52,53, Mark 15:3,6,15,20,24,27,28,29,31,32,34,38,
John 19:11,14,16,18,19,20,23,24,28,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,
Isaiah 53
Hopefully these are helpful