Bible Discussion Thread

As I read some posts in this venue, I notice many use the Bible as a Book of Rules through which to control people. Many even use it to subdue church members into a submission that robs them of the liberty we have in Christ. Some leaders even use Scripture to set up little kingdoms where they are the rulers and Popes. Congregants are even told to take everything to their pastors for approval and guidance. There are church congregations that will not allow you to be a member unless you commit to a monthly or annual membership fee.

The Bible is not a Book of Rules. It is the message of God to humanity about what He is doing, why He is doing it and how we can know The Father and The Son in a personal way. It is the Good News about how we can become Sons of God in Christ. It is the way to Freedom from the cement block of evil, sin, death and corruption wrapped around our feet. The Bible is our way to God the Father, not to another prison of restrictive rules and fearful existence.

The Gospel of eternal salvation and abundant life in Christ allows us to step out of the dark dungeon of repressive sinful habits that made our lives miserable, into the brightness of the liberty of knowing Jesus.

Don't let anyone try to pull you back into a dungeon of repressive religious mandates that steal the liberty of Christ from you. That doesn't mean you can sin freely, carouse, and live as if there were no rules. There are rules of social, religious and political behavior. There must be order, decency, decorum, proper behavior. Organization is essential to every life endeavor.

But live in the liberty of Christ. Be human! Live life as a human enjoying salvation in Christ. Don't live life trying to be as impeccable as Angels.

The Bible is about Christ and God's Purpose Driven Creation. It is about how we can know God and the liberty with which He makes us free from oppression, repression, confusion, depression, addiction, sin and takes us to eternal perfection.

Jesus is Lord!

Carlos, just a quick follow up on my comment: I just saw your comment to Bethany, re: 1 Tim 2:12, so I can appreciate maybe the "control over others" issue you raised. I won't comment on that other one to Bethany here, as it will make this thread ambiguous, nor will I comment on it over there, but I'm sure it will appear in this thread in due course.

Carlos, I heartily agree with your comments brother (as I usually do, though squeezing in some subtle reservations, if I may!). So here we go: I realize that there will always be those who seek to bring believers back into bondage to sets of rules which are unnecessary, unbiblical & burdensome; and these are enforced to bring its adherents into a position of bondage, clothed in the garb of Scriptural mandate & "being of one mind & belief". Sometimes, such rules are not altogether wrong, but if they produce exclusivity & alienation from other 'believers', which again is not in God's Plan, then we must be warned.

However, you do not specify in what ways some are using "the Bible as a Book of Rules through which to control people". I know the matters of Church conduct, whether in dress, speech, usage of spiritual Gifts, etc. have come up here & I certainly have shared in some of them, but as much as I believe that these topics are not dealt with, either within the Word or amongst believers, in an authoritarian manner, I suspect that some might find a strict adherence to such matters concerning & not in line with the freedom we have in Christ. In my input in this Discussion space, I always ensure that my comments are biblically based (with references where needed), & so it is then a matter of correct 'dividing of the Word' that comes to the fore. Yet, there can still be room for objection in this, & I think that is where the matter lies: is one being too legalistic or judgemental by stating the facts laid out in Scripture? Or, at which point does the biblical mandate become open to more relaxed/liberal views? And then, who decides on this point, or do we leave the matter open-ended & a sense of a 'do what you feel is best for you'. And a further point: should we have a swipe at the apostles, who in the main, have so directed us?

Anyway, just a few thoughts that come to mind; & these of course, may well be off the mark to your purpose in writing.

Chris and Bethany, I hope I do the Christian Faith justice with my comments. There are so many differing points of view on so many things. Am I far off when I say there are insulated Christian Cultures that base their existence on rules of their making, by emphasizing vague passages in the Bible to justify their control? Take the Amish and Quakers. Isn't that a glaring example of what I mean? Or Adventists. Good people all of them, but from my perspective, they have issues. Of course, there are also JW, Mormons and others most might not even think of as Christians. But then there are those within mainstream denominations that insist certain things must be done a certain way or else, you are not saved.

The way women dress is particularly emphasized in many groups. My aunt, for example, was told to leave the church because she cut and colored her hair. Some say it is a must to observe the Sabbath, but all they do is have their Sunday Service on Saturday. They don't really observe all the rules attached to keeping the Sabbath. They can't. Others claim you must not eat meat, drink coffee, beer, or smoke. Mormons won't even drink Coca Cola. I could never be a Mormon just based on that one rule. Others won't accept gays in their congregations, but will allow adulterers and hypocrites to preach a Sunday sermon or lead the Choir. This, by the way, is not a list of complaints. They are just my observations.

My message is that we tend to focus on the petty and inconsequential and miss the real meaty stuff. So what should we be focused on? The Gospel. Joy, not reprisal. Appreciation of others, in spite of their shortcomings. And the fact that we must prepare for the End Times. Are most Christians prepared for persecution? What will we do when churches are forced to close? Or when we have to meet in secret? And when killing Christians becomes the norm? When we can't shop? Are we prepared? Jesus warned us in Matt25. Be prepared. Will the AntiChrist be the Muslim Mehdi?

Carlos. Those were great & pertinent comments - I agree wholeheartedly with you about the Church's condition & hypocrisy that often permeates its being. False teaching, leading humble, enquiring souls into damnation, also remains the order of many a so-called Church. We do have clear Scripture on our behaviour as believers & as a Church meeting together, but if any choose to think or do things in opposition, it is ultimately to be left with them as they only are answerable to both God & conscience. Their salvation nevertheless, based on faith in Christ's finished Work, remains secure. The 'keeping of the Sabbath' is a particularly nasty one: fusing the Law with Grace, is what the apostles had to constantly grapple with.

Your comments are enlightening. Why does God allow so much friction in the Church? Why so many denominations?

Carlos, in answer to you, my sense is that, like most things about us, God just leaves us alone & we go about our daily lives, whether in the midst of problems in the home, Church, or society. To believers, it serves to remind us to get back to His Word, to reacquaint ourselves with God's Standards & Requirements, thus a 'spiritual' Church should take note & rectify problems & divisions. The 'carnal' Church will still go on about their business doing what they believe is right & God-honouring, giving little regard to what the Scriptures actually teach.

I think that 'denominations' were inevitable as the Church moved further away from apostolic teaching. Interpretations of Scripture, even the fusing of OT practices into the Church (incense, robes, chants, etc.), would undoubtedly creep in as men looked to their own wisdom rather than the Wisdom in the Word. Looking at the Church with human eyes, one could wonder why the Lord would have any further dealings with us anymore. Except for that singular fact: His Own Son's Blood was shed for the Church & only faith in that finished Work alone, would secure the desperate soul to salvation & glorious eternity. Thus it is heartening to understand that ultimately God can only be our Judge, & that judgement based on one's saving faith in His Son, & nothing else.

Carlos, I still have our other 'unfinished' matters before me - don't despair!

Doesn't the variety of religions remind us of the Tower of Babel, sorta, kind of?

God confused the one language into Many. Everybody moved away so they could hear only their language?

See that's humans for you. They all want some unique way to hold Church and attract new visitors. All people want to have it their way.

Anyone can go online now and read the tenets of that Church's faith. What they believe. If it doesn't match up to the Bible, don't go there. If the church has skinny "sheep" then they aren't being fed on the Word of God. If they don't have wool, then they're being fleeced by false shepherds.

We have a grave responsibility to search these things out!

We attend church to obey God.... because we love Him and He wants us to learn about him. Somewhere it says that if the stall is "full", that's a happy barn; a balanced diet.

Don't put the full responsibility on the Pastor to feed you!

We are to be having family Bible night at home too. Kids will never walk away from God if his love and nurturing is at home. There are many "justice league" kind of heroes in scripture. Jesus slipped in and out of crowds when it was necessary; being chased by Pharisees & legalists. Paul is running from them, Romans and all manner of hazards. What does that teach? Saul chased King David for years and couldn't kill him. If you are hidden in Christ you can achieve amazing victories.

Children know none of these amazing stories, these days. The Bible was removed from schools in 1962. Jesus was kicked out, along with the 10 commandments. LOOK AT WHAT OUR SOCIETY HAS BECOME.

One old lady atheist did that.

Does anyone have a testimony of what Jesus did for them this week???

Maybe God would like to hear it too??

The kids love tunes by Carman on youtube, like: Yahweh; Yo Kids album; he loves ministering in song to kids :D. I used to go to the same church he went to. Kids set on fire for Jesus. It can happen again folks.

You have shared a lot of deep insight to think about. Thanks, Chris.

Good stuff, Mishael.