Bible Discussion Thread

In v.16 it says the lg., breadth & ht. of heaven are =. Is the ht. a mistake? In v.17 it says the wall is 144 cubits, is this thick. or ht or both since a wall has both & I suppose we assume it goes around heaven. Is 12,000 fur. the total dist. around the wall; if so, then heaven has about 141,000 sq. mi. of land which is about 1/2 the size of Texas & if 1/2 the land is used for housing & everyone in heaven lived in 2000 sq.ft. houses/ 5 persons per house on lots of 3,000 sq.f.t each, then heaven could house about 33,000,000 people. This would free up the remaining 1/2 of land for churches, golf courses, beaches, parks, nature trails & shopping malls--almost forgot ,& football stadiums.

It's always an interesting exercise when considering future events & places & the one you are sharing is one of them.

Firstly, the New Jerusalem will be on the New Earth, i.e. not in Heaven. With the dimensions given of the city, it appears to sit in a cube, though one can rightly assume that the height of it probably means to the point where the clouds/atmosphere ends. The walls at 144 cubits (1 cubit = 1.5 ft) makes them 216 ft (again, probably height since the necessity for walls of that thickness seem unnecessary). Your further details of population density was interesting: I had never considered this to that extent. Though, our whole being (i.e. as those outfitted for Heavenly life) & therefore the necessity for shopping malls, beaches, etc. seem unnatural since we will be in the presence of Almighty God (v3), enjoying Him & His Son in continual praise & worship & thus we would pursue a lifestyle akin to what had in Heaven.

What did pique my interest was vv 26,27. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." I just can't work out why the reference to sinners in a New Earth since all evil has been locked away by this time. Or, is it just to show the purity & holiness of the Earth & Jerusalem, that nothing evil could ever hope to come into it (i.e. if evil existed). And who are the nations? Any thoughts?

I greatly appreciate the thoughtful reply by Chris regarding the size of our New Heaven. I have looked more carefully at Rev. 21: vs 12, 16 & 17 & conclude the following: Vs. 12 plainly states, "And (the new heaven) had a wall GREAT and HIGH ----"; Vs. 16 last part says "The Length and the Breadth AND the Height of it are Equal;" then going to the first part it says "And the city lieth foursquare and thus the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, 12,000 furlongs (one furlong = 582 ft.).

SO, Vs. 12 says the New Heaven would have both a great & high wall + Vs. 16 says the lg., breadth (width) & ht. of the walls are equal. These two statements rule out using the 144 cubit (210 ft.) measure for the height of the wall but instead limit it to the thickness; which does make sense because during this time period city walls where described by their heigth & thickness + their composition (for this wall it is jasper).

Now one has to both read & think carefully. The first of Vs. 16 says the city is foursquare ( laid out in a square) with length = breadth/width and he measured the city with a reed and it was 12,000 furlongs. Now the question here is, what is 12,000 furlongs describing? One missing piece of info now is the perimeter around the city, which is provided by the stated 12,000 furlong measurement. Since the city is a square each wall must be 3,000 furlongs in lg. Then from the last portion of Vs. 16, we can conclude that since the lg., breadth and ht. are equal, that the ht. of the walls are also 3,000 furlongs or 1,746,000 feet or 331 miles.

The above generates 2 interesting questions about the walls. The obvious first question is, why are the walls so high? How can a wall be that high and only 210 ft. thick, especially when you consider that it is made mainly of "jasper"(jasper is a brittle stone used for decrative objects).

The above indicates that heaven should cover about 141,000 sq. miles or about 1/2 of Texas.

LGSpears, as with you, I find this subject fascinating & even though measurements are given in Rev 21, we have to assume that with our limited knowledge with how measurements were actually derived in those days, some errors will be there. For example, 1 (US) Furlong = 660 ft. So using 582 ft as you have done, isn't a great deviation from whatever was originally considered, however it does remind us that are musings over these facts can only at best be speculative, even to the actual construction dimensions of the city.

However, I do see the measurements given are for the New Jerusalem & not the New Heaven. You might be seeing this as one & the same but I understand that the "first heaven & the first earth" as applying to the present earth & sky (which may include objects found in inner or deep space), & not to the place of God's Abode.

Re: the dimensions of the city. Agreed, that length, breadth & height are equal, but I seem to read in v 16, that only measurement of one of the equal sides was taken (i.e. 12,000 furlongs = 1,500 miles). If this is the case, then we have 144,000 sq furlongs = 18,000 sq miles of land area & not including the 1,500 miles of vertical measurement of one side. Or is this a misunderstanding on my part? I won't even try to contemplate what the wall would appear like as a result!

And another interesting feature in all this, which you no doubt would have observed, is the use of the figure '12' as the cardinal number seen in Revelation (e.g. 7:4-8; 12:1; 14:1,3; 21; 22:2) as well as its appearance in other Scriptures (e.g. 12 disciples, etc.). How does this all figure out in God's Design & Plan?