Bible Discussion Thread

I encourage all believers to receive the gift of the HolyGhost by the evidence of speaking with the other tongues. I ask everybody, "Have you received the HolyGhost since you believed? God is still pouring out the HolyGhost upon all those who believe. The HolyGhost is for everybody. From the WhiteHouse to the Outhouse. God will pour it out on all who receive him.

Albert, Really? tongues was the least gift of them all per Paul.

1 Corinthians 12:28 - And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (Tongues the last least gift.)

1 Corinthians 12:29 - Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

1 Cor 12:30 - Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? (the answer is NO)

1 Cor 12:31 - But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues. (GREATER IS HE THAT PROPHESY THAN TONGUES)

Why would anyone want the least gift?

1 Corinthians Chapter 14: 26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

....But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church....

not one Pentecostal church I have ever been to have ever followed this in scripture.

I still all believers to experience the infilling of the HolyGhost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues Tongues are your evidence that God has put His Spirit within you ( Acts 2:4; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:17; Acts 10:44-46; Acts 19:6) I am referring to the outpouring of the HolyGhost that happened in the book of Acts and was prophesied in Joel 2:28. I am not referring to the gift of tongues, one of the nine gifts that Apostle Paul was teaching the Corinthians. I have experienced the infilling of the HolyGhost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues. The church at Corinth were out of order and Paul wrote them to establish order in the church because they were misusing this particular gift. He taught in I Corinthians not only about tongues but communion, the order of creation, etc. Paul did not forbid them from speaking in tongues,but rather that ye prophesy. Tongues edifies the believer, unless he can interpret so that the church can be edified. Prophesy edifies the body of Christ. I certainly agree with you as it relates to the edifying of the church. I have experienced both in my lifetime. The gifts of the Spirit are in the church today and they operate through people. Paul taught on the correct use of them in the church. No, all are not apostles, nor prophets, nor teachers or workers of miracles. But all can receive the gift of the HolyGhost. The HolyGhost allows believers to operate in the capacity that you are referencing. I do not know what churches you visited where people are out of order. But when God is in control, people will be in order. The initial infilling of the HolyGhost was what I was talking about, not necessarily the gift of tongues. Without the gift of the HolyGhost, you won't be using the utilizing the gift of tongues.

There is only one place in the bible that specifically gives us the purpose for tongues, and that is 1 Corinthians 14:22. Acts Chapter 2 is a perfect example of the proper use of "tongues." Unfortunately, the church today does not conform to the biblical use of speaking in tongues. Many today are in total violation of 1 Cor. 14:22. The tongues that are being taught today are not the tongues of the bible. The verses you have shared make no mention at all about tongues being the evidence that a believer has received the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit.

When a person receives Christ, they receive His Spirit. If we are trusting God's promise to give us His Spirit when we call out to Him to save us, why would we need evidence? Wouldn't seeking for evidence be the same as not trusting God to fulfill His promise to give us His Spirit? If we require evidence of our salvation, then how can we say we have faith? God's promise in Romans 10:13 is that all who call upon Him shall be saved. That is His promise. He gives us His Spirit. Without His Spirit, there is no salvation, and we are given that in Romans 8:9. You mentioned Acts 2:38 which is a great verse to show that those who repent are promised God's Spirit. That is all we are promised to receive. Many people today are being deceived by the teachings on "tongues" which is causing them to doubt their salvation because they are being told that tongues is the evidence of their salvation. There are three point-blank facts about speaking in tongues that the bible gives us.

Number one: It is a known language. Not necessarily known to the person speaking, but it is a human language.

Number two: It is a sign.

Number three: It is to unbelievers, not believers.

To receive Christ is to receive His Spirit. One cannot receive Christ without receiving the gift of the HolyGhost. If we do not receive Christ, we are none of His ( Romans 8:9). There are two different Spirits. This same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit that was poured out on Pentecost(Acts2:1-4). I have received of the same Spirit, the HolySpirit. I have witnessed countless others receive the Same Spirit that fell on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus spoke of another Comforter ( John 14:16-18; Acts 1:8) that was available to all who would receive it. He said repentance and remissions of sins would be preached in His name ( Luke 24:47) beginning at Jerusalem. This gospel has been preached for over two thousand years. I have witnessed people being healed from all forms of disease: cancer, aids, Lukemia, etc. I witnessed demons cast out of people who were possessed with them. I have witnessed the amazing power of the HolyGhost transform gang members into preachers; prostitutes into missionaries; drunkards into deacons; lost souls mixed up in Islam, New Age, Buddhism, and other false doctrines in born again believers. The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead; is raising believers in the newness of life. I seen miracles wrought right before my eyes: I have seen the blind( literally blind, a man that has a glass eye and his other eye totally blind) see out of both, legally blind eyes. I have a man's leg grow to meet the length of his good leg. I have witnessed barren women give birth to not one, but three children. I have seen God raise people from Comas, from literally death( one woman was dead for 12 minutes resuscitate to life after I prayed for her in the name of our Risen Savior Jesus Christ. He said greater works would we do. The Bible is a living, God-breathed book; it is not like Shakespeare, Milton, Steinbeck, or Melville. It is the power of God. This is why I talk about receiving the HolyGhost-it is the life changing power of God.

Albert,

I agree that it is the same Spirit, whether we say Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost, same Spirit. And yes, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is the gift. That is the only gift He promises to every believer. Did the Spirit raise Jesus from the dead, or did Jesus raise Himself? Jesus said I will raise up this temple. Acts Chapter 2 is a perfect example of tongues in its proper use. It would be equivalent to going to a foreign country, not knowing the language of that country, and all of a sudden we begin to witness to someone in their native tongue (language), a language that we don't know, but they understand perfectly what we are saying. It's a sign to them that what we are telling them is from God because there's no other way we could know their language so perfectly. It would be an awesome experience to be used the same way God used those in Acts Chapter 2. The problem is that's not what's happening in the church today.

Every believer who receives Christ receives the same Spirit. But not every believer who receives His Spirit automatically starts speaking in tongues as evidence. In Acts 2, there was a reason why God used tongues. We are not to try and emulate that today.

You've witnessed many things. Praise the Lord and all glory to God. He still heals, but not through the hands of men. Yes, God's Spirit is powerful, able to convict even the vilest of sinners and bring them to repentance, but I think we have to be cautious when it comes to "miracles" and "signs." How do we know it's all from God?

Yes, the bible is alive and powerful. And there's nothing wrong with talking about receiving the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit, and telling people that receiving His Spirit will change and transform every aspect and thought process in a believer's life. But it would be the same thing as telling someone to receive Christ. Same thing! It's when people are being told that there needs to be evidence of the Holy Ghost by them speaking in tongues. That I can't agree with.

The Bible has not changed. What God did on the Day of Pentecost He is still doing today. God is still pouring out His Spirit on hungry souls that desire Him to fill them. The Nine Gifts of the Spirit are in operation in the church. There is still the fivefold ministry of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. God is still healing and delivering people. Signs and wonders are still in operation today. It is easy for people to believe in the Wright Brothers and their ability to fly. But it is hard for people to believe Jesus. We must proceed with caution when it comes to God; however, we can believe in everything that is natural without question. Man 's knowledge has brought us many great inventions, but man's limited, finite knowledge still cannot heal a broken heart or save a soul. I used caution in this pandemic. I use caution when I am driving. I use caution when I am approached by people who might do me some harm. I use caution when I listen to political candidates. But I do not use caution when I apply the Word of God: I use faith. I could share some miraculous testimonies where God has wrought miracles not only in my life; but in the lives of other believers. One thing I cannot change is the way someone else thinks; I can only help spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to a dying world. I have witnessed and experienced things: the miracle of salvation where people who want more out of life turned to God; and He, not I, poured out His Spirit upon them. Christ went to the Cross for the whole world. I am so grateful to have been a receipient of His love. I did not find Christ; He found me. I believe in miracles; not because the Bible is full of them; I believe in miracles; because I have seen them with my own eyes. I have experienced the miraculous power of the HolyGhost change my life. I know God is still working miracles. The angels in heaven rejoice when one sinner repents. That is an awesome miracle to me.

Jesse, if I could add one more to your list in an otherwise great response:

Number four: it is not a necessity to have that gift ( 1 Cor 12:30). Albert quoted verse 29 correctly, but should have also included verse 30.

Though having said that, a Pentecostal acquaintance actually interpreted v 30 this way in support of the gift: "do all speak with tongues?', should be read, "do (a command, a must) all (believers) speak with tongues". Needless to say, I was rendered speechless & floundering.

Chris,

Great point! I did a study a few years back on the word "gifts" used in association with gifts of the Spirit. And many of the places in the N.T. that this word gift or gifts are used, the word gifts is in italics. I'm sure you know what the italics are. But I did a Greek study on the word gifts, and there were two different Greek words for our English word gift or gifts. One of those words had to do with an actual gift given to someone. And the other word had to do with expressions of God's Spirit. The only time the word was used as in reference to an actual gift that is given to believers; it was used to show that we are given the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. That is the only gift that is actually given to us. The rest of the things mentioned: gifts of prophecy/healing/tongues etc. were simply expressions of God's Spirit.

I do believe God still heals today. Human beings cannot heal anyone. And as far as tongues goes, if God chooses to cause a believer to speak in tongues, I believe He will do so. But like the scripture says, it's not for everyone. I tend to believe that it might even be rare that God causes a believer to speak in tongues. To this day I remain skeptical of those who are telling people that tongues is evidence that you are saved, and that all believers should speak in tongues as evidence that they have the Holy Ghost. I also do not trust these huge faith healing ministries. Some of these people have been exposed as being frauds. I think it would be nice if all these so-called "faith healers" and all those who claim to have the "gift" of healing if they would go to all the hospitals and heal all the sick people there, especially the children who are sick and dying.

I was healed just this morning! Had to get up and speak Out against the demons of infirmity, loud. By the time I was done fighting against spiritual wickedness, my leg felt ready to stand on a chair! God is good and faithful; full of grace and mercy.

If you need to be healed, then learn spiritual warfare! Keep your eyes on Jesus and pray. A legal child of God makes the demons run.

As a pastor once told me; if you aren't butting heads against Satan & his demons... you're probably walking with them; or they don't consider you a threat. Satan is a legalist. Do not assume that God gave him permission to make you sick or in pain!! It's a lie. Fight back.

You don't have to have the gift of healing. There are hundreds of healing scriptures in the Bible. Somebody make a list, so we can copy it. The more of those you have in you, makes you a formidable warrior. Light beats out darkness every time.

We may not be able to beat up family or neighbors, but we sure can Send demons into outer darkness and dry places. I always remind Satan that he is going to HELL.

Praise the Lord, thank Him that his Mercy endures Forever, and stand up. There's a Psalm that all the verses end with "His Mercy Endures Forever."

Thanks Jesse for your comments. Indeed, what a great ministry that would be & for the furtherance of the Gospel if those with the gift of healing would minister to the many with sickness or near death. I wonder why such an opportunity is not seized upon - seems that use of the gift is being confined to the Church generally & not to the masses, as was part of the apostolic ministry.

And true, has the real gift of Tongues ever been used today? As far as I know, those with this gift, still have to learn the language of their target people group when going out to foreign lands to serve; at least I've learnt this from those that I've met - they all had to go for language studies. When one sees all this, I sometimes can't blame the skeptics who say that all of the Holy Spirit's Gifts are now done away with ( 1 Cor 13:8-10). Yet, my sense is that if we make such a determination we may well err greatly & sin, so it's best to know that the Spirit still gives to each one "severally as He will" ( 1 Cor 12:11) & to rejoice when the gift is in operation for the evidential blessing of all.

Chris,

Amen! I don't think it's ever been used the same way as it was initially in Acts Chapter 2. Perhaps for a short time in the early conception of the church, but not today. That makes a lot of sense to me for a person going on a missionary trip to first learn the language of the area they are going to. But even that's not the true sense of "speaking in tongues." There are many who are becoming discouraged because they don't speak in tongues, and they are being told by their church leadership that tongues is evidence that they have the Holy Ghost and are saved. There are some who even doubt their own salvation because of it. And people are also being told that God will heal them, and that if they are not healed, it's because of their lack of faith. There's no such thing as a believer having a lack of faith. I know God never changes and that He can do whatever He wants. He can do all the same things with us that He did with the early believers if He so chooses. But is seems that today, man is choosing when and where these things happen. Some are even being "coached" on how to speak in tongues, and how to heal others.

Jesse, I had written another comment but it seems to have disappeared. Just agreeing with you: to the many that have become disillusioned & confused because their inability to be as others who have 'received the Gift' or not getting healed. I was even told to just start babbling to start the process going, just as they had to do. Now they are fluent in it. I asked if they had a translation to their 'tongue', & was simply told, 'No, it's probably a language of past ages or even a heavenly language, but was given for their personal edification'. So, this is what was being taught to them. But we are not to judge, but just pray that the Lord would reveal Himself in a special way to them that may shake them out of ignorance & hypocrisy.

Agreed, that "speaking in tongues" was given for a sign to the unbeliever & for the edification of the Body. However, I did let my mind 'wander', wondering if this gift so given by the Holy Spirit for the ministry of the Gospel, could also be given on those occasions when the missionary is unable to communicate & therefore his words, then either come out in the language of the hearer, or at least, is translated by the Spirit in the ears of the hearer. Anyway, as you say this aspect (= my musing) is not in the intended meaning & use of the Gift. And I agree that there is a trail of broken & confused believers who have not spoken in tongues or received healing for their bodies because an incorrect understanding & teaching on these subjects was given them. And a couple of 'them' have even told me, a non-tongue speaker, to just babble something, as they had to do(!!), in the hope & waiting for the 'gift' to be given.