Bible Discussion Thread

Daniel's entire prophecy of the seventy sevens ( Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God's removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

What settled the rapture question for me was Luke's recount of the same conversation about the end as Matthew 24. In Luke's account we get a few gems of wisdom added to the story, particularly this one:

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:36 (KJV)

What many Christians don't understand is that many, many of those who identify as Christians will NOT be found worthy to escape! We all have to have oil in our lamps (The Holy Spirit) so that we do not miss the Bridegroom, a

Tom, Why does everyone insist that those over in the middle east are Israel? Just because someone claims to be a jew does not make it so.

Jesus in bible book Revelation 2:9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son

(ALL Jews deny Jesus and that makes them antichrist, if they believed in Jesus then they would be CHRISTIANS. IF you do not believe me call any Synagogue and ask them if Jesus is the Messiah.)

1 John 2:23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

If Jews do not accept Jesus as messiah, then who is their messiah?

1 Corinthians 16:22 - If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (CURSED) Maranatha.

DO JEWS LOVE JESUS OR ARE THEY CURSED?

King James Bible book of John 5:16 - And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

John 5:18 - Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 7:1 - After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

Paul in 1 Thessalonians 2:14, 16 - For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, EVEN AS THEY HAVE OF THE JEWS: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: FOR THE WRATH IS COME UPON THEM TO THE UTTERMOST.

Just a little comment concerning the Jewish people. Not all who say they are Jews, are true Jews, there are Edomites etc. But, it is sad to see that the Messianic's are never included. They are in the middle. The Jews don't want them and the Christians don't either, and yet they love Yeshua passionately, and do their best to live according to His Will. I know I am one.

Annie - that is so true. Same edomite problem with many leaders in so called churches or they are sold out to them. I hate easter / xmass and what not so I am not of that crowd. One thing that bothers me about messianics is few will stand against the Talmud. I have read some of it in book form in the reference section of the library. I know what it says.

I had some claiming to be messianic deny the talmud exists. I know better. The kabbalah / Zohar is even worse. King Herod was an edomite per Jewish historian Josephus and yet he, Herod, would claim to be a "Jew" I am sure as he was involved in running the temple in the days of Christ. Yes the edomites give the true Jews and few true christians a bad name.

I am sure they planted xmass to drive away true jews away from churches. I have great respect for the Torah / Tanach believing Jews and know the Israeli state treats them poorly. I consider them as lost sheep. The ADL says the Vatican supports the ADL. When you came to Christ, did the family have a funeral? Following the way is oftentimes a lonely road. Stay close to the Lord things are getting bad.