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In my Church we are taught that you can lose your salvation, but others say you can't. What is your opinion? The way that reads it seems my Church is correct.
I've mentioned the above, not for any other reason but to emphasize that what man sees is not always what God sees. If your pastor/elder or anyone teaches that the saving work of God in a person, through His only Begotten Son, can also make allowance for error in God's election or if the 'saved' person chooses to reject Christ later on, then that can only have merit, if we look at a believer's standing through the eyes of man. Man sees a believer who turns his back to God (i.e. we first see him as a 'productive' Christian & now one living entirely in the flesh), then we say that person has lost his salvation, destined for Hell. God's view is entirely different. Please take time to read Romans 8, & especially focus on verses 29-39 to understand that God makes no mistakes & when we are truly His, we won't even contemplate departing from His great Love & our most Holy Faith.
And it is the reality of the Holy Spirit's indwelling in our lives that enables us in bringing forth all the Fruit, all of the Graces of Christ, in us for the blessing of many. This indwelling is not just to give us a 'nice feeling' of being loved & blessed by God, but also to give us the power to live a victorious life, of endurance & even to martyrdom. And so when Mt 10:22, Rev 3:5 & others, speak of endurance & overcoming to the end, we know that this is the final test of the worth of our salvation experience. All who were martyred: the apostles (except John), Polycarp, Wycliffe, Huss, Tyndale, Bonhoeffer, Elliott & his four friends with him, & countless more through the ages, all demonstrated the reality of their salvation & the cost to love the Lord to the end. When I read that many of them who were put to the burning stake, recited Psalm 51 for focus & strength during that walk to their death, I'm deeply moved by their singular thought to confess any known sin that would impede their abundant entrance into the Lord's presence rather than to the torment that awaited them. And so I ask myself: Would I be able to do the same? I believe that the answer to that is found in the Word: YES, we who are saved will have the Spirit's fortitude to stand confidently. ( Acts 7:55.56) shows us Stephen's vision that strengthened him to accept death courageously. (onto Page 3).
Ed. From my reading of the Scriptures on this matter, I believe that a Christian cannot lose his/her salvation. However, rather than enter debate over this, I always ask the simple question: what is a Christian according to the Bible? This question on the surface may not require too much thought as one could quite simply say, that a Christian is one who has demonstrated faith in the finished Work of Christ on the Cross & has been forgiven on that basis. This statement alone sets him apart from any other religion or philosophy.
Yet, that person & those around him will generally accept this person as a Christian, but we see that there are checks on the road we travel on, to examine the authenticity of that salvation. So, what I see is that how we look at a claim to be a Christian is not necessarily how God looks at it. We see only as a man sees: a baptism, a changed life, hunger for God & the Word, ministry, evidence of apparent spiritual fruit/gifts, etc. & we praise God for such a life & we are then convinced. Or is being a Christian more than this? Something that most of us have never been tested on are: the matter of endurance, finishing the race, overcoming Satan & possibly martyrdom. These may not be observable traits to us now, but these (& taking the mark of the beast, as Bob pointed out), are what make up the full requirements for being a true follower of Christ. And please note that I'm not adding anything extra to our salvation, but to show that our 'true' salvation also encompasses these other aspects that may only be provable at our journey's end. (onto Page 2).
Ed - I know we can not "lose" our salvation like you lose your car keys or a wallet.
However can we throw away our salvation?
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
(Seems our names can be BLOTTED out of the book of life)
Exodus Chapter 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Jesus in Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Why would Jesus say we must endure to the end?)
Jesus in Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Revelation Chapter 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
I do not care what sinners prayer anyone says, if they take the mark I believe their are doomed.
Sadly Millions of Church goers do not believe they will ever have to make this choice to refuse it.
I've mentioned the above, not for any other reason but to emphasize that what man sees is not always what God sees. If your pastor/elder or anyone teaches that the saving work of God in a person, through His only Begotten Son, can also make allowance for error in God's election or if the 'saved' person chooses to reject Christ later on, then that can only have merit, if we look at a believer's standing through the eyes of man. Man sees a believer who turns his back to God (i.e. we first see him as a 'productive' Christian & now one living entirely in the flesh), then we say that person has lost his salvation, destined for Hell. God's view is entirely different. Please take time to read Romans 8, & especially focus on verses 29-39 to understand that God makes no mistakes & when we are truly His, we won't even contemplate departing from His great Love & our most Holy Faith.
And it is the reality of the Holy Spirit's indwelling in our lives that enables us in bringing forth all the Fruit, all of the Graces of Christ, in us for the blessing of many. This indwelling is not just to give us a 'nice feeling' of being loved & blessed by God, but also to give us the power to live a victorious life, of endurance & even to martyrdom. And so when Mt 10:22, Rev 3:5 & others, speak of endurance & overcoming to the end, we know that this is the final test of the worth of our salvation experience. All who were martyred: the apostles (except John), Polycarp, Wycliffe, Huss, Tyndale, Bonhoeffer, Elliott & his four friends with him, & countless more through the ages, all demonstrated the reality of their salvation & the cost to love the Lord to the end. When I read that many of them who were put to the burning stake, recited Psalm 51 for focus & strength during that walk to their death, I'm deeply moved by their singular thought to confess any known sin that would impede their abundant entrance into the Lord's presence rather than to the torment that awaited them. And so I ask myself: Would I be able to do the same? I believe that the answer to that is found in the Word: YES, we who are saved will have the Spirit's fortitude to stand confidently. ( Acts 7:55.56) shows us Stephen's vision that strengthened him to accept death courageously. (onto Page 3).
Ed. From my reading of the Scriptures on this matter, I believe that a Christian cannot lose his/her salvation. However, rather than enter debate over this, I always ask the simple question: what is a Christian according to the Bible? This question on the surface may not require too much thought as one could quite simply say, that a Christian is one who has demonstrated faith in the finished Work of Christ on the Cross & has been forgiven on that basis. This statement alone sets him apart from any other religion or philosophy.
Yet, that person & those around him will generally accept this person as a Christian, but we see that there are checks on the road we travel on, to examine the authenticity of that salvation. So, what I see is that how we look at a claim to be a Christian is not necessarily how God looks at it. We see only as a man sees: a baptism, a changed life, hunger for God & the Word, ministry, evidence of apparent spiritual fruit/gifts, etc. & we praise God for such a life & we are then convinced. Or is being a Christian more than this? Something that most of us have never been tested on are: the matter of endurance, finishing the race, overcoming Satan & possibly martyrdom. These may not be observable traits to us now, but these (& taking the mark of the beast, as Bob pointed out), are what make up the full requirements for being a true follower of Christ. And please note that I'm not adding anything extra to our salvation, but to show that our 'true' salvation also encompasses these other aspects that may only be provable at our journey's end. (onto Page 2).
Yes there is. No person who has the Holy Spirit in dwelling, can call Jesus accursed.
They cannot call him Lord either. You have to choose now, whom you will believe.
Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
James 2:7
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Ephesians 4:3
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Revelation 13:6
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Mark 3:28
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
However can we throw away our salvation?
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
(Seems our names can be BLOTTED out of the book of life)
Exodus Chapter 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Jesus in Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Why would Jesus say we must endure to the end?)
Jesus in Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Revelation Chapter 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
I do not care what sinners prayer anyone says, if they take the mark I believe their are doomed.
Sadly Millions of Church goers do not believe they will ever have to make this choice to refuse it.
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