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I have been real busy. You sound kind of post-trib or pre-wrath to me when you mentioned God's wrath in your comment. There is no reason to put a gap in 1st Thess. 4:13-18 just because harpazo and parousia are in verses 15 and 17. The Bible doesn't do that so we shouldn't do that. It seems to me that the rapture is THAT particular resurrection whether you want to believe in more than one. Yes, there is no gap in that passage just like there is no gap in Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 thta some scholars magically put in there ignoring grammar, context and the word yom.
I believe it is this way.
1. Satan pours out his wrath for 3 1/2 years based on Revelation stating a 3 1/2 year time period, not a 7 year that supposedly wasn't fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 - 27 because the Bible clearly states that Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week if you follow the antecedent of 'he' in verse 27 as it points to Matthew, 23's curse. This is why verse 27 in Daniel 9 doesn't say abomination but plural abominationS. This verse has nothing to do with a future antichrist but is Jesus Himself as that is what the passage is about and fulfills all the warnings of Matthew 20, 21, 22, and 23.The abominationS is the return to animal sacrifice for 40 years after Jesus died.
2. God pours out his wrath with plagues for an indeterminate amount of time. We know ONE plague lasts 5 months alone so my guess is at least a few years to ten or more. The Bible doesn't state either way. My question for you here is since this is typology of the time God brought Israel out of Egypt, 1. where were the children of Israel at the time of the plagues?, Answer: still in Egypt and Egypt is a type of the world.
3. Grapes of WRATH. THE RETURN OF JESUS. This wrath really is the beginning of judgment where the wicked are taken first as in the days of Noah.
God Bless!
1. I believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, believing that God's Wrath upon the Earth is directed solely to those deserving it (those living in wickedness & rejecting Christ). If (true) believers are also subject to that Wrath, then one has to wonder why we have to be judged for our sins again. I know we suffer tribulation throughout our earthly lives (as even Jesus warned), but we are dealing with a special occasion of God's Anger upon all godless.
2. Re: Dan 9:26,27. I think I'm reading correctly from your comment that it is Jesus that is seen in this passage. We see the Messiah cut off (v26) & then "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Are you seeing Jesus here as well? Then who are the "people of Jesus (the prince)" that shall come to destroy? You said that "this has nothing to do with a future anti-Christ". And if v27 refers to Jesus, doesn't this aspect of 'confirming the covenant' resemble anti-Christ's plan to go against Israel & introduce his own abominations to desecrate the Temple?
3. I understand your typology of Egypt & Israelites living there in spite of the plagues. However, is this a correct analogy? In the case of Egypt, they indeed suffered with the various plagues, but they continued on as a nation, except for the loss of some life & death of their first born children & animals. It was indeed God's Wrath but Pharaoh finally relented. The picture of the loss of life & destruction of the land bears little resemblance to what the Great Tribulation will accomplish in the future. I liken it to resembling the full devastation of the Flood or of Sodom & Gomorrah where all life was annihilated except for those righteous ones.
GENEVA BIBLE)
Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
JOHN WESLEY:
Daniel 9:27
He shall confirm - Christ confirmed the new covenant, By the testimony of angels, of John baptist, of the wise men, of the saints then living, of Moses and Elias. By his preaching. By signs and wonders. By his holy life. By his resurrection and ascension. By his death and blood shedding. Shall cause the sacrifice to cease - All the Jewish rites, and Levitical worship. By his death he abrogated, and put an end to this laborious service, for ever. And that determined - That spirit of slumber, which God has determined to pour on the desolate nation, 'till the time draws near, when all Israel shall be saved.
CHECK OUT ALSO MATTHEW HENRY, JOHN GILL, etc. Matthew Henry is probably the best Bible commentator of all time.
c. You: "So when someone says the Joos can be saved by grace and keeping the law during a future time period they are contradicting dozens of passages in both the old and new testaments."
Me: I heartily agree, as Grace & Faith are required for salvation today, there can't be a reversion back to either just the Law or a fusing of both. For those who will die until the Millenial rule of Christ, their destinies are either Heaven or Hell. For those still alive at Christ's reign & hear the Gospel preached ( Rev 14:6), it would still be the Gospel of Faith without the Law. And lest any think that this is a 'second chance Gospel' given for all, I sense that it is still the same Gospel sent to those living at that time, whereas those who rejected it earlier, perished because of their rejection of it. It seems that the validity of the Gospel is not based on a specific duration (i.e. a cut off time) but on its eternal value & offer to all living. And of course, where the Holy Spirit is absent there can't be conviction; but when Christ is present (Millenium), His Spirit goes to work. And the fact that it is preached today in all love & urgency as the Spirit still abides, is so that those who choose to reject it now & die, will never receive a second chance for eternal life, even though it remains valid.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
they thought the LAST antichrist was going to arise during their time or the warning would not have gone out at that time in this epistle. They did have their antichrist Caesar Nero which did add up to 666.
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what (what do you think this what is?) withholdeth (holds back) that he (the antichrist) might be revealed in his time.
The Holy Spirit is not a WHAT. I personally think this WHAT is the Holy Spirit's "restraining power". I can't say this 100% for sure but it makes sense. Your thoughts?
On Daniel 9:27, the "he" - do you know what an antecedent is?
On the Holy Spirit, He will never be absent or no one could be saved and no miracles could happen with the two witnesses as it is through the Holy Spirit that all miracles are performed. I site 1st Corinthians.
1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co_12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
The Holy Spirit may allow or lift His hand back to some degree to allow the antichrist to arise but the antichrist still can only do what the Holy Spirit allows.
i think you are thinking of this verse which i will send in next comment.
The Anti-Christ proponents say that the verse speaks of the Anti-Christ in position for 7 years, first coming as a peace-maker (confirming the covenant he makes to this end). In the midst of the week (3 years), he breaks that covenant, stopping all Jewish worship & his position on the 'throne' desecrates & makes the Temple an abomination. Now I realize you are aware of the various ways to look at it, & even Carlos (I think) alerted me to the "he" in verse 27 as referring to Jesus. So, I'm well aware of both positions by taking off my 'pre-trib hat' & even admit that this understanding could be valid. And also, as you would know, there are many scholars who just can't fit the events of v 27 to anyone but the spirit of Satan. So that's where we're at: two opinions who firmly believe their understanding of this verse is correct.
b. You: "Isn't the chapter about Jesus confirming THE covenant (verses 24 and 25)? It's all about that. to make an end of sins, THE TESTATOR must die in order for the will or covenant to become in affect. All over Hebrews."
Me: I agree that it is Jesus that is spoken about in vv 24,25. But when you look at the 'weeks' of years given in vv 24-27, we see that Jesus was already crucified (v 26) & Jerusalem destroyed by Titus in AD 70 (69 weeks). Then in v 27 "he confirms the covenant for 1 week (the remaining week from the 70 weeks)". How do you understand this in the light that Jesus was already crucified at the 62nd week?
Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week or at 486 1/2 years because of the word AFTER in verse 26.
That leaves 3 1/2 years to be fulfilled. Here are three possibilities. I hold to #2.
1. The death of Stephen 3 1/2 years after Jesus died. This is a belief of the 7th Day ADventists but there is no way to prove his martyrdom historically or biblically on that time. But it is true the gospel really went to the Gentiles at that point so it might be true. Thta would ahve fulfilled the end of 70 weeks then.
2. the 3 1/2 years of the Great Revolt War starting in spring of 66AD and ending in fall of 70 AD. I hold to this one because part of the Daniel 9 prophecy has to do with the destruction fo the temple and historically it did last 3 1/2 years.
3. the 3 1/2 years mentioned in Revelation might be it but it doesn't make sense to me as there is nothing in the prophecy talking 2,000 years later & the temple being destroyed was part of the prophecy.
I am open to the other two possibilities but it is interesting that the Great Revolt lasted 3 1/2 years, fits the prophecy perfectly & is exactly 40 years AFTER the death of Jesus and 40 is the number for testing, trials, etc. I see God granting grace of an extra 40 years since the crucifixion of Jesus even though they were causing many Jewish Christians to be killed by themselves and stirring up government against the Christians as they do to this very day in America with the ADL, ACLU, SPC, and many other organizations that have been taking away our rights for several decades now. We are the persecuted ones. They are hated by many because of what they do and say about Gentiles in their writings. Ever read the Talmud at all? Jesus is called a bastardd and burning in hell in excrement forever just to name one thing they say about Him. 1/3 of the world is SHEMitic. They make up words.
Now, I realize that you've also given a fuller explanation of this & it is noted & appreciated. However, to fully appreciate both sides of understanding verse 27 (whether speaking of Jesus or Anti-Christ), we would need to understand "confirming the covenant", "for one week (7 years)", & a "ceasing & removal of the sacrifices & abominations". You've said that Jesus affirmed the promise through the Gospel (how so for 7 years?), the sacrifices/oblations ceased through His death & resurrection, & the desolation of the abominations at His Second Coming (I assume)."
me:
Remember what Daniel's prayer was. The answer from Gabriel was concerning HIS people (the Jews), the Messiah, and the destruction of the 2nd temple. The end of the Jewish age ended the 70th week.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon THY people and upon thy holy city,
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Three different words for WORLD in Matthew 24 explains this. Also, THIS GENERATION shall not pass till ALL these things be in Matthew 23's prophecy. See the FULL futurists confuse this by thinking none of Matthew 24 happened. And the FULL preterist goes to far thinking all of it happened and that there isn't a double meaning with it.
We are all ONE people now. To divide up Jew and Gentile goes against the whole new covenant. Paul said WE are the temple. We are all ONE in Christ. The middle wall of perdition is gone. We have to ignore all of these verses that hurt the pre-trib teaching.
One major problem is Judah is just one tribe so even if God never fuflilled His CONDITIONAL promise to them, they would only get 1/12th of the land today, not all of Israel, most of Jordan and parts of two other nations. This is a major theological problem. Joshua and 1st Kings said God already kept his promise and gave them all the land in three passages. It was fulfilled.
5.Our opinions don't matter. The context of the passage is all about Jesus dying for sins and the destruction of the temple.
6.Why are people implying a "future peace treaty here" when it doesn't even teach that? They are reading in light of a presupposition they were taught as a young Christian or Bible College student like I was.
7.Why did all commentaries pre-1830 teach the 'he' here is the Messiah? We know that the Bible says many false doctrines would arise in the last days. We are here. This keeps people from preparing their hearts for persecution.
B. What would cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease?
1. Jesus' death as the FINAL AND ONLY LAMB of GOD that GOD WILL FOREVER ACCEPT, and He became the LAST HIGH PRIEST TOO. Caiphas lost his job that day. Everything he did at that point was meaningless and anyone in the future doing these things will be meaningless and incur the wrath of God. Look at what God sent in 70 AD and again in 363 AD.
2. Just because SOME of the Joos went back to sacrificing for 40 more years rejecting Jesus as the Messiah and rejecting atonement when God had enough, doesn't mean those sacrifices amounted to anything. They didn't. They were wasting their time. They even admitted in Yoma 39b in the Talmud that the scarlet wool never turned white again after 30 AD. So those next 40 years were totally meaningless when it came to sacrifices and oblations. God had mercy on them and gave them another 40 years on top of the 490 to repent and accept the Lord Jesus. I know I sent you all this before.
Let me know if you want the rest.
So, it seems that the word "he" is the critical word in verse 27, rather than the rest of that verse, as the substance of the verse can go either way if the "he" is not agreed on. With discussions I've had in the past, my mind, once securely closed, has opened to the possibility that "he" could indeed be referred to Jesus, but then I ask: is the "ceasing of the sacrifices/oblations" done by His Sacrifice or by the work of the Anti-Christ, seeing that the word "cause" implies a causative action rather than a resulting action?
Jesus didn't physically go out there & destroy their altars (there weren't any at that time), it was done by virtue of His Sacrifice negating its value & currency. But the one who would physically cause its cessation could be seen as the wicked one. Of course, we know that Israel has not restarted the sacrificial system even though it has been under pressure to do so, but it could well be that Anti-Christ's initial concessions to Israel, will include reinstalling the sacrificial system, that which he will later demand an end to. And, I did read your other good comments to this end, but as said, the debate on the "he" is not just because of my ignorance, but some very fine scholars who see it as Jesus & others, as Anti-Christ.
So, as much as I would like to read your other 'pages', I think that this verse 27 is the point of contention that has to be surmounted. As well, I'll be out of 'circulation' for a month as I will be travelling on holidays in remote areas of Australia (without phone/internet). Though Robert, rest assured, I do value your comments immensely & thank you for them, as they give me good things to 'chew' on & only the Lord can confirm these things to our hearts. I ever wait on Him for His Light & He does indeed use folk like you to help bring this about.
also, I have a hard time finding your correspondence from the previous comment. I'm not very good with blogs I guess. I thought when you hit "reply" it would bring you to the last comment.
Robert,
I began drafting a response to your previous comments yesterday, but got bogged down with trying to calculate the weeks (of years) in Daniel 9. I got up to the 62 weeks (crucifixion) but just couldn't get past that with the coming of Titus & the destruction. So, I will leave it at that as my time could better be spent on dwelling on other, clearer matters. Though, to comment on the following:
You: "But none of that is in the actual verse. it is being read into the verse. that is what a presupposition is."
Me: True, the Anti-Christ is not directly shown there in v 27, however, I understand that 2 Thes 2:3,4: "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." This is the passage that is commonly referred to as a reference to the Daniel 9:27 prophecy about him.
Concerning the Covenant made in verse 27 (referring to your most recent comments):
I understand how this verse is understood when the "he" is seen as Jesus (i.e. it is Jesus Who confirms the Covenant (that which was first made in Genesis); it is Jesus through His Sacrifice that cancels out the need for sacrifices/oblations, etc.; & this will be the case until He returns).
Then looking at the same verse with 'other' eyes: i.e. it is Anti-Christ confirming the Covenant (for the 7 years) that he first makes with Israel so as to garner their support for his position & work of peace on their behalf; & after 3 1/2 yrs, he breaks his (the) covenant (= support/promises) & then proceeds to desecrate the Jewish temple (which we assume will be re-built again), put a stop to the sacrifices & in so doing sits in the temple as God demanding worship. And of course, the rest of that account is seen in his treatment of the Jews, his powers, obedience to him by all, death/martyrdom, etc.
YOU: Yes, I do agree with you on that, but when we get to verse 27 & we see (A) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many", this is where divergent opinions arise on who "he" is. Some say that it speaks of Jesus, others, Anti-Christ. For those referring it to Jesus, I sought understanding as to His "confirming the Covenant FOR ONE WEEK (7 Years) & (B) causing the sacrifice & oblation to cease, etc." If it was Jesus, (C) how & when did this happen at His coming & His death, as all things continued the same way with the Jews? (D) If it referred to the "Prince that shall come", then it spoke about, either evil Titus at his coming in AD 70, or that spirit that was in him, to be revealed in the Anti-Christ.
ME: BREAKING IT DOWN. I think I did this for you before. You may have not read it.
A & B: CONFIRM THE COVENANT =
1.What covenant was promised to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15?
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
2.What covenant came into being WHEN Jesus rose from the dead?
3.What covenant is constantly talked about throughout the whole New Testament and referred to in the Old Testament many times with Daniel 9:24-27 just being one of those times?
4.Why is the KJB the only one that calls it THE covenant? THE is a definitive article only meaning ONE of a kind ONE time. There has been many peace treaties over the centuries. More modern English translations have changed THE to A so they can encrypt pre-trib theology in by making it say more than one possibility. The NLT is so horrible it teaches pre-trib theology.
This is about 1/4th of my response and breaking it all down for you. I wish I could just send you the Word document so you can read it over and over. Blogs are nice but limited.
ME: But none of that is in the actual verse. it is being read into the verse. that is what a presupposition is.
YOU: I agree that it is Jesus that is spoken about in vv 24,25. But when you look at the 'weeks' of years given in vv 24-27, we see that Jesus was already crucified (v 26) & Jerusalem destroyed by Titus in AD 70 (69 weeks). Then in v 27 "he confirms the covenant for 1 week (the remaining week from the 70 weeks)". How do you understand this in the light that Jesus was already crucified at the 62nd week?"
ME: 49 YEARS WERE ALREADY FULFILLED BEFORE THE next 62 were mentioned so that brings it to 69 weeks and then we have the AFTER in verse 26. Reread the passage.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks (483 years upto Jesus' baptism in Jordan- His anointing) : the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times (the first 49 years or 7 weeks). + [plus]
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeshall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the
the destruction of the temple happened 40 years after the 486 1/2 to 490 years were already fulfilled. I call that The Stay of Execution before God the Father brought judgment on Jerusalem FULFILLING mATTHEW CHAPTERS 20, 21, 22, AND 23. Remember Jesus saying to forgive 70 x 7=490. 490 years came to a close which an extra 40 years would have been extra grace.
Robert, thank you for the time you've taken for such a detailed reply. Just to pick up on some things in reference to the Dan 9 account. And I'm trying to think not as a pre-tribber or any other 'tribber', but look at the verses in their context.
a. You: "There are TWO princes mentioned in this passage. One is Titus (secular little prince) and the other Jesus the Messiah, the Prince of peace." (v26).
Me: Yes, I do agree with you on that, but when we get to verse 27 & we see "And he shall confirm the covenant with many", this is where divergent opinions arise on who "he" is. Some say that it speaks of Jesus, others, Anti-Christ. For those referring it to Jesus, I sought understanding as to His "confirming the Covenant FOR ONE WEEK (7 Years) & causing the sacrifice & oblation to cease, etc." If it was Jesus, how & when did this happen at His coming & His death, as all things continued the same way with the Jews? If it referred to the "Prince that shall come", then it spoke about, either evil Titus at his coming in AD 70, or that spirit that was in him, to be revealed in the Anti-Christ.
Now, I realize that you've also given a fuller explanation of this & it is noted & appreciated. However, to fully appreciate both sides of understanding verse 27 (whether speaking of Jesus or Anti-Christ), we would need to understand "confirming the covenant", "for one week (7 years)", & a "ceasing & removal of the sacrifices & abominations". You've said that Jesus affirmed the promise through the Gospel (how so for 7 years?), the sacrifices/oblations ceased through His death & resurrection, & the desolation of the abominations at His Second Coming (I assume).
Me: Isn't the chapter about Jesus confirming THE covenant (verses 24 and 25)? It's all about that. to make an end of sins, THE TESTATOR must die in order for the will or covenant to become in affect. All over Hebrews.
A future antichrist is going to use this passage to deceive and he (Satan right now) has deceived the masses already by teaching this out of context. So will there be a third temple built? Probably but it isn't going to be God's will. God gave Israel a king that they wanted and He will give them the false messiah they want too. Modern Israel persecutes the church to this day but stirring up stuff in the Middle East whcih always results in Christians getting persecuted INADVERTANTLY by the Muslims, losing their homes and on occasion being killed. They have always persecuted the church throughout history. WE are told it was the other way around but you won't find that in history. You will find that the Roman Catholic Church persecuted both Protestants and Joos but true Christians are being given the blame for what they didn't do. Muslims blame true Christians for killing them too when it was the Roman Church behind it.
Sacrifices were no longer needed after Jesus' death. To teach it is God's will to go back to them when He never wanted them in the first place but it was temporary as we are told in Hebrews and Daniel TILL ( Daniel 9:24-27) the Messiah should come - that 490 year timeline.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
We also have the angel that is going about with the EVERLASTING GOSPEL in Revelation. So when someone says the Joos can be saved by grace and keeping the law during a future time period they are contradicting dozens of passages in both the old and new testaments.
1. Joos were only saved ONE way during Jesus time- grace through faith through Christ. No other way.
2. These same Joos began to spread the gospel.
3. Joos for the last 2,000 years have been saved by grace.
So why does this change all of a sudden if Jesus was the final Lamb sacrifice that could take away the sins of the world? Blood from bulls and goats only took away sins for ONE year. You could not be born again until Jesus.
God Bless.
Me: It is Jesus. "People of Jesus (the prince) that shall come to destroy?" in verse 26 was fulfilled in 70 AD when Titus became a prince over night. There are TWO princes mentioned in this passage. One is Titus (secular little prince) and the other Jesus the Messiah, the Prince of peace.
I encourage you to read Mathew chapters 20, 21, 22, and 23 without thinking like a pre-trib rapture person.
Parable of the Tenants for example: WHO sends armies against Judah? God the Father does because they killed His Son.
WHO cursed the fig tree?
These last two verses in this chapter in Daniel 9 (verses 26 and 27) interject TWO main things. The New Covenant being established and the destruction of the second temple; therefore, placing the timing of the COMING OF THE MESSIAH the first time (first advent) before the 70 weeks or 490 years expired. It is impossible for any jewish person to not have known Jesus was the Messiah as He came at the end of the 70 weeks. It is the best passage to evangelize Joos but if one holds a pre-trib position and that is over 97% of Americans they are throwing that opportunity away.
The whole purpose and context of this passage is about Messiah and the destruction of the 2nd temple.
To make an END of sins (verse 24). WHO made an end of sins and put an end to the sacrifice and oblation in verse 27? Jesus did. Why is the word abomination in there and is plural? Because the Jooish priesthood went back to doing animal sacrifices therefore rejecting the Messiah totally and right back to the vineyard renters in Matthew killing the vineyard owners Son.
Dan. 26b and 27c is Titus and the roman army. YOu can say that 27c is both Jesus and Titus because God always used Israel's enemies to punish them and Jesus pronounced that punishment on the nonbelievers. Hope this helps break it down for you.
Dan 9:26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
Dan 9:26b and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
B= General/Prince Titus who led the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD. He became a prince overnight when his dad Vespasian became Caesar of Rome. All historical. Has nothing to do with a future antichrist.
When will or When did the last 3 Years of Daniel Chapter 9 get Fulfilled?
Choice One:
7th Day Adventists take the 'Stephen principle' dying 3 1/2 years after Jesus was crucified thus fulfilling all 70 weeks of Daniel chapter nine's 490 year timeline or what is called the 70 prophetic weeks with each week equaling 7 years. The problem I have with this view although it could be true is that it cannot be proven Biblically or historically when the evangelist Stephen was stoned to death. It really stems from their prophetess Ellen G. Whites supposed vision. I am not going to put my faith in something that cannot be proven with the Bible and Ellen had some false prophecies.
Choice Two:
I hold to the 3 1/2 year war that ended in 70 AD with Jesus giving the unsaved Jews an extra 40 years to repent and believe upon Him as their Messiah. I do so because it, what was known as The Great Revolt, lasted 3 1/2 years, so it is historical, and it also fulfills part of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy as the prophecy not only talks about Messiah coming and dying for sins but also that the 2nd temple would be destroyed which obviously means that Messiah had to come before the 2nd temple was destroyed. There is no getting around that. This prophecy also matches nicely with all the parables, and warnings Jesus gave the Jews in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22, and 23.
CHOICE 3:
The Book of Revelation talks about a 3 year period. Whether this is an entirely different 3 years than the 490 years of Daniel chapter nine's 70 weeks prophecy or not I feel cannot be proven either way. A 'full preterist' would say this portion of Revelation was already fulfilled in 70 AD also. I have some problems with that. I tend to hold to Revelation's 3 years as different than the Daniel 9 490 years because it seems to be dealing with a different group of people and Messiah had already come and died for sins. I think choice two is the most logical.
messiah dying for sins and the 2nd temple being destroyed. And the war just happened to be 3 1/2 years long from fall of 66AD to spring of 70AD. It fits perfectly in my eyes.
The one thing I do know is we cannot derive a 7 year time period from Daniel 9 but we may be able to derive a future 31/2 years. 3 1/2 is an incomplete number. It is possible that it can be a double fulfillment 3 1/2 years- one for 70 AD and one for way in the future. I never thought about that till now. I know that would get the full preterists mad at me for doing that.
There is no medal of valor for being left behind! Skip the whole thing by bending your knee to Jesus Christ NOW !!
All the people left on earth will be slaves to Antichrist. People who want to slaughter billions of people. It's the Holocaust to the 10th Power.
You wouldn't come to Jesus when it was easy. You wouldn't read His love letter (the Bible), when it was being given away on street corners.....
You can confess God at any time during the Tribulation and be saved: but you're still stuck on earth, facing certain destruction of your earthly body.
Trust Jesus now!!!!!! PRIDE is one of the six sins that God Hates. Why? Because it hurts you!
Little detour here. I want you to experience what JOY it is to be turned on to Jesus. If y'a like a Little Rock music? Have a listen to a song by Darrell Mansfield on YouTube:
BIBLE STUDY.
A lot of you think heaven is going to be ultra orthodox southern Baptist, but I don't think so!
Check it out kids. It's kids getting in trouble for the Right Thing! :D
Since you're there already, listen to Our Time Now, by Carman. All true.
Love you guys
Remember how Moses and Aaron stood before Pharoah? MY opinion.
YOu:
I thick satans time is the tribulation and gods one year of wrath is the great tribulation,Before gods year of wrath the true believers are either dead or are being taken care of because they will not endure gods wrath,The one year of gods wrath could also be part of the last seven years or else satans time gods one year and jesus time are the last seven years."
Me:
Persecution, tribulation adn suffering is what the church goes through. Great tribulation is Satans' wrath. I see it this way after many years of study.
Three wraths.
1. FIRST WRATH: Satan's wrath or what we call in modern times Great Tribulation which is 3 1/2 years
2. SECOND WRATH: God the Father's wrath poured out on the wicked with plagues to try to bring the last few to repentance. This time period I don't see a specific number of years. We know the one plague lasts 5 months and it is on the wicked but there are 6 more plagues. Could it be another 3 1/2 years? Yes. But I don't see where the Bible states that. It's possible God the Father's wrath will only be 2 years but could also be over a 10 to 20 year time period for all we know. I just don't see ONE New Testament scripture that gives an exact time period so I don't want to be dogmatic on that.
3. THIRD WRATH: The Son of God'S WRATH. The Son of God comes to earth right before rapturing us off at the end of the the Father's wrath. He comes with a rod of iron and this of course is called The DAY of the Lord. I'm open to this to being more than ONE day but I would think it would last ONE day because Jesus, 2/3rds of the angels and all the saints are coming and it won't take long to bring justice with an army that vast and having ALL POWER.
this is how I see it trying to not add or take away from scripture. I don't want to read into it eisogetically.
We know the one plague is before Jesus comes back and it says 5 months long. It is literally giving the number of months and we wouldn't add to that.
God Bless.
The fourth horseman has a fifth rider. My take on this is this is the false prophet and the antichrist. They have not been revealed yet. Time will tell Aidan.
Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Notice the pronoun THEM in verse 8. "...Power given unto THEM..."
DEATH=ANTICHRIST
HELL= FALSE PROPHET.
How I see it. Notice 5th seal. Many Christians will be killed BECAUSE OF THEM of the fourth seal. There are 5 riders fo the apocalypse. 4th seal is riders 4 and 5. Everyone ignores that fifth rider in their theology.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
You are a Christian right?
God Bless.
There is one prophet who is one of the two witnesses
We support two preachers that occasionally go and preach in Jerusalem. They get kicked, spit on, lives threatened, threatened with imprisonment which would happen if we didn't send so much money over there. Nothing has changed over there. Anyhow, maybe they are the two. We just don't know.
One of the guys we support we just noticed recently went to about 15 major US Cities wearing sackloth calling America to repent. He has seen in vision Russian planes flying over America. Years ago Pastor David Wilkerson in 1973 gave a long 50 minute prophecy and just about everything came to pass now. One was US Cities burning. The church must repent first.
Many American Christians are doing wickedly-they help steal land from Christian Palestinians, and many are sending money to build a 3rd temple (enough has already been sent to build 7 temples) when God made an end of sacrifice in 30 AD and destroyed all attempts since in 70 AD and again in 363 AD with tornadoes, earthquakes and fire coming from beneath every time they tried to rebuild under Emperor Julians' command to go rebuild. The church has much to repent of that is blasphemy in the eyes of God so we WILL see judgment if things don't change. These are just a few of the sins no one wants to talk. There is a pretty high rate of woman in the church having abortions now. That was unheard of 30 years ago. We in the church shouldn't need an Elijah or Moses to bring us to repentance. WE should search our hearts regularly. Judgment begins at the house of God. We need to be praying about getting our own lives right INDIVIDUALLY. I say individually because we are seeing the great apostasy Jesus said would happen as one of the last signs already in the churches, Bible colleges, etc. Jerusalem is not going to be the only nation judged in the end ( Revelation 11); all nations will be judged.
Can you show me 7 years somewhere in the New Testament. I see 3 1/2 years in Revelation. Am I missing something on that? You are correct. 70 weeks were fulfilled. that is how I see it. The word AFTER in verse 26 puts Jesus' death right int he middle of the 70th week in verse 27 because 7 weeks were already fulfilled before the mentioning of the next 62 weeks.
1. Stephens' death (there is no way to prove historically or Biblically that Stephen was killed an exact 3 1/2 years after Jesus. But I am open to this idea.
2. This is my take. The Great Revolt War that lasted 3 1/2 years from the fall of 66 AD to the spring of 70 AD; the Stay of Execution extra 40 years. 40 means trials and temptations in the Bible. even the demonic Jooish Talmud admits to the scarlet wool never turning white again from 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalam in Yoma 39b. This was a supernatural sign that God did after the Day of atonement. It never happened again after Jesus' death. This proves the abominationS in Daniel 9:27 has to be what the killing of animals again, not what ONE man way in the future was going to do. Even building a third temple is an abomination. See what God did to this attempt in 363 AD. I fear so many Christians are heading for major judgment for sending money to have this done.
3. A way in the future 3 1/2 years. The new testament does talk about a 3 1/2 year period of tribulation in the future. Question is, is it a totally different 3 1/2 years than the 3 1/2 years that was left after Jesus' death?
I hold to #2 as it fits perfectly with Daniel 9:24-27. I hold to a 40 year gap from 486 1/2 years to the 490 years because the passage not only talks about the death of the Messiah but also the destruction of Jerusalem so it keeps with the context of the passage.
Great Tribulation coming upon the whole church will be 3 1/2 years as far as the persecution upon the entire church goes as many int he world have been under great tribulation since day one of being saved. Then God's wrath will be poured out with the plagues. Then Jesus the Son's wrath will be poured out at His return right after we are taking up.
How I see it.