Bible Discussion Thread

Full Disclosure: I am not a Christian. But in a recent reading of Mark 8:11 - 9:1, I noticed that they had very similar content - the same story. What stood out was Matthew 16:9, absent in Mark.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Which I interpret as conferring on Peter the authority that Jesus holds - the power of God. I find this troubling.

Some get this wrong : upon this rock. He is talking about Himself. He's the rock not Peter.

I'm came here today because, for the very first time of being a Christian for 50+ years, I saw the same thing in that scripture. I know the Catholic Church uses the "upon this rock I build my Church" to maintain that Peter was the first Pope, and no I am not Catholic; and no I do not believe that. However, Jesus DOES plainly say that whatsoever is loosed on earth by Peter (and supposedly the Church) will be loosed in HEAVEN. THAT means that if He said that adultery was good for the Church...then it was good for Heaven. Now I know you're going to rant and rave, but READ IT. That is EXACTLY the implication there; and as near as I can tell, there is no additional clarification to that statement--ANYWHERE. To be honest...I'll have to pray over this for the next 50+ years....

When Jesus said "upon this rock I will build my church.' He was referring to Himself, not Peter. Jesus is the Rock.

OK, so Jesus is the rock. But that was not my point. Why is it that the Bible, written several decades after the crucifixion of Jesus, somehow insert verse 16:9, when Mark neglects this utterance. My own hypothesis is that the new Christians needed some justification for their preaching. What better way than to claim Jesus granted them this authority? Jesus never said it which is why Mark left it out.

Having just read Mark, Mathew 16:9 raised a red flag to me.

What are the keys Jesus speaks of?I believe that the keys are the liberty we have in Christ to lock and unlock doors of our understanding and knowledge of the kingdom of God found in the revelation of the holy spirit, revealed to us by faith found in Christ!You are interpreting this from a carnal point of view. The power in the keys come only from Christ himself, and those he chooses to give them too. Peter's revelation is a clear confession of Christ. Confession is the power you are so afraid of. It is His witness that will build the church,His confession is the rock,it will have doors and keys to lock and unlock. I do hope you will receive Christ! If you receive him today you may see how the keys work! Walk through one of those doors and begin to understand what the kingdom of god is.

My post was to draw attention to the odd inclusion of verse 19. My reveal that I'm not a Christian was offered for honesty.

During my life I've seen many contracts with odd clauses - pay legal bills if a suit fails. No doubt NDA's and Pre-nups contain odd clauses. What is the effect of verse 19? It raises a red flag for me.

Hi Robert, I am glad that you are aware of some of the verses where Jesus speaks. Another way of thinking of keys is as answers. The Church built on the rock of Jesus can by its connection to Jesus in Heaven can prove answers to those seeking Salvation. If one is drawn close to The Lord and His Church an answer may be in more detail, yet if one is critical or insincere an answer may be more vague.

Jesus is the Truth, the Life and the Way. He is the answer key.

Carleton

To CARLETON,

There also would no longer be any need for questions or discussions about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, for all things have been revealed to those that are 'Born of God' .

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg, Nova Scotia, Canada

Andy G van den Berg>> You sound a little arrogant with that comment. Do you really believe that you know all there is to know? The Bible actually tells you that neither you nor ANYBODY else does. NO man knoweth the times or the seasons. Who can know the heart of man, for it is wicked and evil above ALL else! The Bible also DEMANDS that you "try the Spirits" to see whether they be of God. The Bible also DEMANDS that you STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. Yes, you need to question everything and ask God for guidance. BTW...God put Preachers on earth to help with that guidance. Maybe you should start with your Preacher if you have access to one. Right now, I don't. If not, seek discussion panels like this one, but you should NEVER bounce in here proclaiming to know everything and tell everyone that all the questions have already been answered...because they haven't; and even the Bible tells us this.

where does it say that? all things have been re.... all things will be. But I don't thing all thing have been.

Hello Andy, I have read as much as I could on your own transformation before reaching a paywall unless I ordered your book. God gave me the inspiration just as I wrote to that man, perhaps it was only for that hour.

(I imagine with Holland roots you have some anabaptist background somewhere)

Carleton

To Carleton,

We grew up Roman Catholic. I grew up in a family of nine children and studied for the priesthood and was very active in the church till the time of our conversion. Was an extraordinary minister, lay reader, member of the choir. we were leaders of the marriage preparation course, day of enrichment, cursillo movement, etc.

We self-published the book 'A World Deceived' in 2015 and invested 20k but the first two distributors went bankrupt and since 2018 we have had no distribution. Our communication to the world is strictly through our website. Will mail copies of the book upon request.

Please note that in over 34 years of service we have never collected/received, solicited or requested donations. The gift of 'Life' was freely given and freely do we give to all those that believe ( 2 Kings 5:16; Matthew 6:26; 10:8).

God started to reveal Himself in 1984 and taught us in all things. The gospel we preach is not after man. For we neither received it of man, neither were we taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ ( Gal. 1:12). The gospel we preach and the preaching of Christ is according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began ( Romans 16:25).

One of the first deep hidden mysteries God revealed to us was the Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth ( Revelation 17:5), which during the last forty years has been clearly exposed. You yourself would be surprised of its identity but during your journey of repentance God would reveal all things, for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known ( Matthew 10:26).

The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

Thank you Andy, I remain interested in the details of the revelation that God sent to you and how that regeneration took place first in your heart and then Dianne's and then in your children as you wrote. Should I find the book? Before God gave you and Dianne this revelation who or what else carried this revelation forward in time? Likely you have heard of Menno Simmons who was a Catholic Priest and well liked too.

Carleton

To Carleton,

There is only one way of thinking of keys. Anyone that has been taught by God and is 'Born of God' knows that the keys referred to in the Word of God is 'knowledge' - to know the difference between good and evil and darkness and light ( Gen. 2:9). It is the key that opens and closes the door to the Kingdom of God ( Isaiah 22:22; Luke 12:52).

It is during your journey of 'Repentance' that God will teach you in all things and provide you with all wisdom and knowledge during your journey.

The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting, repentings) is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider.

It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( Matthew 7:7; John 14:17).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), as mankind follows after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1), and learn what 'True Repentance' means.

As far as interpreting Scriptures, prayer is always a good idea first so you don't "miss it", "it" meaning the meat or manna that'll fatten up and edify your spiritual man. Also praying in The Spirit/stammering lips/speaking in tongues, ushers in The Holy Ghost so you can interpret The Word in a spiritual way instead of in a fleshly way. That is why (in my experience) The Gift of Tongues was the first as evidence that you had/have The Holy Ghost because as you speak in tongues, you can feel the Holy Ghost fall on you with such a sweet quickening, with a curious yearn for more of an intimate relationship with The Father, who can then bless you with more of The 9 spiritual gifts. The Gift of knowledge and wisdom (God will open up and give you a peak at the most mind blowing beautiful awe inspiring knowledge that pertains to what you or whomever The Lord wishes you to minister to, with the Wisdom of when to use it and/or to whom to share it with, so that they too may become blessed and a walking blessing) if it doesn't witness with you now, it may not be what you need as an answer right now. But debating Scriptures, will only bring strife/distance someone that may have been on the precipice of giving all to God but was turned off by a debating battering spirit. Yes we are to gather together & reason one to another, but as I read a few of these thread comments, its reading like a political "I'm right you're wrong" type page, we're speaking of the most sacred of sacred and are blessed enough to even get a glimpse of such artistry/strength/healing/beautiful poetry that IS ALIVE! That is exactly why you shouldn't minister to anyone who doesn't want to hear it. "don't cast your pearls among the swine", what are pearls? The Word, who are the swine? foolish scoffers. I was blessed with The Holy Ghost at 8 with a vision of red ribbons blowing out of my mouth into the wind as The Tongues burst out of my mouth, felt like I was going to die if I kept my mouth closed.