Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

Hi Richard,

There is definitely still right and wrong. Right or wrong choices exist everywhere, as there is still good and bad. Sin still exists as does fruit, which can be either good or bad itself.

What may help is for example on the fruit aspect, one either produces good or bad, but not both at the same time. Salvation from sin produces a change in what fruit is produced, and in 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." The old sinful man and his ways are passed away when you repent and are saved from sin.

This salvation I speak of, and along with sanctification that addresses inherited sin in the heart, together does bring man to the same spiritual standard that God made man from the beginning. We are made in God's image, this is the spiritual man. We only have this after we are free from sin via repentance, salvation, and sanctification.

Well said and Holy. That was a great representation of Gods Words. We all fall short of the glory of God because we are not perfect and with sin. But we get better and try to be the best version of Christ everyday. This is called sanctification. People really need to understand this so more may come to Christ.

Hi David,

I'm not sure where you get your information, because it doesn't seem to be from the Bible. Grace doesn't mean it erases sin, like it never happened. Grace is forgiveness of sin. Forgiveness is different than something that never happened. People who sin are forgiven if they are genuinely Christians who follow Christ. It sounds like you're claiming that Christians have to be perfect and without sin to enter heaven? If that is your belief, Jesus already said no one is without sin Romans 3:10. So, are you calling Jesus a liar? You also seemed to question why Jesus died on the cross. Jesus already explained exactly why he died on the cross- it's black and white in the Bible. So, the following statements from you are false:

>So let's be clear, if you are sinning still, you are not saved. You will not go to Heaven if you die in sin.

There is a difference from a Christian who tries their best to follow Christ but still sins (grace) because they have temptations of the flesh (just like Paul did), and someone who claims to be a Christian, but is not interested in following Christ, but desires to enjoy sin as much as possible because Satan told him he was saved and doesn't have to change (not grace).

That's fine Adam if you choose to believe falseness over truth. You, and all of us really, are in one of two categories, those that have repented and received salvation from sin, and stop sinning here on Earth by the power of Jesus, or those that continue to sin until the Judgement Day. You have been taught that you can be saved and sin, but whoever taught you that is a liar. If you cannot cease from sin with the blood of Jesus applied upon salvation, there was not any change in you. So the reference to the earlier thought some think the blood of Jesus and His sacrifice is the same as bulls and goats does in fact apply truthfully.

And as I told Chris, you will be reminded by God at Judgement Day you read the message a saint named David wrote warning you to consider your soul. Salvation and sanctification require you to be cleansed FROM sin, requiring sinful acts to cease. If you say you cannot stop sin here on Earth, you didn't find the right Jesus, the one that is the Son of God, who came to save from sin here, now.

So that's all there is, a warning to any reading this, Jesus came to Earth about 2,000 years ago, born of a virgin, to preach His gospel, to become the sacrificial Lamb of God, die on the cross to be the sacrifice that saves from sin as in Titus 2:11, 12 is referred to again, and to leave an example that living sin free is possible in His power.

Here's one other way to look at it. If you are in fact right and I'm not, we both still go to Heaven. But if it turns out I am right and you aren't, then you will not gain Heaven. Isn't it worth it to find out who is right?

Finally, what is wrong by living right? Or to live sin free now? And yes living sin free is available through the sacrifice of Jesus, and only through Him.

PS if all that continue to sin make Heaven their eternal home, what must one do to spend eternity in Hell? I dare you to ask God honestly to show you where you stand with Him now. And I also dare you to listen and obey Him.

Hi David,

If you believe you're perfect and sinless like Jesus, that would be contrary to: Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23.

Ephesians 4:32 - says be kind and tenderhearted and forgive others like Christ has forgiven you, but if you have to be 100% perfect as a Christian why would it say that? Are you suggesting that you've been 100% perfect and sinless since becoming a Christian? For example, you have never lied or quarreled or raised your voice at anyone and have always forgiven others for their sins?

If you believe you've been 100% perfect and sinless, which even Paul wasn't able to do, then aside from Jesus you're the first and only human to be perfectly sinless after becoming a Christian? Just as a warning this could be the sin of pride Proverbs 16:5 and 2 Timothy 3:2.

Matthew 5:48 - Jesus said to strive to be perfect and obey his commands John 14:15, but that doesn't mean you must be perfect to be saved. Ephesians 2:8. That also doesn't mean you have an excuse to sin intentionally.

Matthew 12:31 - Jesus clearly said only blasphemy of the holy spirit is the only sin that won't be forgiven. So, if your point is the NO sins are forgiven after you become a Christian then why would Jesus say this to everyone (including his Christian followers) that all sins ARE forgiven but this one?

Paul admits in Romans 7:15 that he deeply struggles with the flesh and sin. Does that mean you think the man who write the most books of the Bible and was the top evangelist for Christianity went to hell?

My belief is that you don't earn heaven by being perfect. You are saved by believing Jesus, confessing and repenting of your sin and actively following Jesus. You try to avoid sin to the absolute best of your ability, but it doesn't mean you'll be perfect. It in fact says we are all imperfect, but if we're genuinely following Jesus then we're covered by grace as we progress in our life as a Christian. It doesn't mean the grace erases sin, but we will be forgiven if we're a Christian following Jesus. Jesus shares a great parable about sin and forgiveness in Matthew 18.

Matthew 12:36-37 - Jesus sets the bar very, very high with every word you speak to others, your thoughts, and if you even look at a woman. Matthew 5:28. Am I supposed to believe your the first person since Jesus to ever do this perfectly and that you're 'earning' heaven? Congratulations, but I think you're in for a surprise, because that's not what the Bible says and above are just a few of the Bible verses that prove that. I'm offering this in kindness to offer a different perspective to a Christian brother. God bless.

You likely will disagree, but Romans 7 that tells us about Paul, the chapter was written in present tense but was in fact reflecting back to Paul's past. It was his testimony of what he was before receiving salvation on the road to Damascus. Before Paul had received salvation he did struggle. Before he was sanctified, again there was struggles internally. Only after Paul was saved from sin and was sanctified to remove his carnal nature did the struggle cease. Yes he was saved FROM sin or God could not have used him to preach as he did.

When I got saved, I had to follow the sinless path Jesus made for us by His example. I did so willingly as it was required by God. Both to be sin free or to remain in sin are choices. If you wanted to be free from sin, you could do so now. IF you get saved. Salvation is only complete and true if you stop sinning.

If you choose to believe you will sin until you die, I truly feel sorry for you. You have been sold a lie. So too has most of this world been sold the lie you cannot stop sinning. Most did not believe Jesus while He was on Earth, so why should it have changed much since.

You have made your choice to live what you believe and so have I. I choose to believe God that I must be saved from sin now. You choose not to believe Him. You have been given false teaching that you can't be free now.

OK that is all the comments I will offer. As mentioned, I will stand firm on what I said that I am free from sin because of applying the blood of Jesus through repentance, salvation, and sanctification. If you want to make Heaven your home, you must do the same. If you fall short of freedom from sin here, you cannot enter Heaven later.

David,

Have you ever had one single moment of doubt? Is there no distinction in your mind between the flesh and the spirit? Are you so sure it's wise to be casting aspersions on another's profession of faith just because they are confessing their faults to you?

In Christ,

Nathan Samuel

Hi Nathan,

I'm not sure of what you're asking, but if you want to link doubt to sin, they are not the same.

Flesh versus spirit: they are in fact different. Flesh is your body of bones and tissue. Spirit is the inner man. Both flesh and spirit must be in right standing with God.

See 2 Cor. 7:1 "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." No do not think that man can cleanse his sins, but his choices can lead to places where doing sin is more likely, or more temptation do sin is present. I do not go to a bar, as the alcohol drinking atmosphere is not a place one saved from drinking needs to be. I do not hang out at the smoker corner or the adult book store either.

I'm sorry you don't like me making judgement calls on others, but if they say they still sin, by the truth in the Bible, I can state they are not right with God. And really it's not me making that judgement decision, I read what the Bible says and apply what it says.

Others want to go back to 1 Jn. 1:8, saying I am false in saying I don't sin is showing where I am wrong. Actually I did sin at one time, but the time of salvation is where sin stopped.

See again 1 Jn. 3:8, 9

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Those that sin are of the devil and those that are saved from sin are of God. Salvation is not a coat to be put on when you want to be spiritual and taken off when you want to indulge in sin. Either you are saved or you are in sin. You cannot be both at the same time.

Like it or not, but those that commit sin upon death will be judged as sinners and are not going to Heaven.

Hello David, thanks for your response. It's interesting how I shared a mountain of scriptures, but you seemed to disregard and not comment on them. All you have to do is hover over them to see what the Bible verse says.

But I noticed you just changed your position.

Before you said "if you are sinning still, you are not saved." However, in your last post you wrote something that seems to contradict itself. "I truly feel sorry for you. You have been sold a lie. So too has most of this world been sold the lie you cannot stop sinning."

Then you wrote "I will stand firm on what I said that I am free from sin because of applying the blood of Jesus through repentance, salvation, and sanctification."

But if you're already perfect and sinless why what would you need to repent from? And what would you need to be sanctified from? You already said you're sinless, so what you said contradicts itself, unless you believe you in fact do continue to sin and need to repent and be sanctified of it. So, which do you believe?

You also said some false statements: "You choose not to believe Him. You have been given false teaching that you can't be free now."

Why would you assume I don't believe in Jesus Christ? I've read the Bible directly and quoted the Bible directly so why do you assume I was given a false teaching? A teaching from who? The Bible, or you?

I changed my mind and will address questions here one last time, Adam. Why didn't I address other verses you mentioned? Why go deeper into scripture when we have yet to resolve the simple truth that salvation frees from sin. We are on opposite sides of a basic truth that you must be saved from sin or you are still lost. You would not see the truth in what the scriptures say unless you are saved from sin. It all hinges on this. You claim salvation in sin and I claim you can be saved FROM sin.

You want an answer on supposed contradictions on my salvation from sin yet I had to repent. I did sin up until age 25, which is how old I was when I got saved from sin through repentance of sins I had done in the past. That's what is required, to repent to be saved. I never said I had never sinned, just that after salvation I sin no longer. So no contradiction there.

As for believing in Jesus, even devils believe He exists. But you are not obeying Him if you will not get saved from sin. Salvation requires repentance where one aspect of it is sorrow for sins committed and a willingness to forsake and never do the sins again.

Parting thought: think of the attitude of the Jews that hated Jesus enough to falsify statements to sentence Him to death on the cross. They hated Jesus and His proclaiming we had to be free from sin. These religious leaders hated Christ and His authority, His messages of truth, and the threat He was to their false teachings, their power, and their money from profit in handling the church as a business. These Jewish leaders loved power over lost souls and embraced false teachings. They hated Him enough to kill Him. Jews and in fact nobody is automatically saved from sin. Unless you repent of your sin, and stop sinning, you die lost.

Hi David. Thank you for your previous input. While I think you make some strong and valid points, I am not sure I have a good understanding of your position on this so I hope you don't mind if I ask a question:

If at some point in the future a Christian professing person who has repented from his past sins were to fall short and knowingly commit another sin, what would you suggest are his current options/possibilities for gaining acceptance by God?

Thanks in advance.

Daniel,

This is referred to as backsliding. In this situation, assuming God is dealing with the individual, the person would need to repent of their sin and be saved again.

HELL OR NO HELL

Amos 4:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Zachariah 14:7 But it shall be a day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening it shall be light.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, David, but I disagree with nearly everything you wrote. God bless.

Bronson. I am going through the same thing as you are! I have made up my mind I am not going to let the devil get the best of me and go to hell for ever and ever, Bronson just think about real hard. My biggest problem is I was put on pain pills and now I can not stop taking them but I am going to control it and not let it control me any longer I am going to beat it! God will help you! I know he will! I am going to pray for you right now!

Regarding sin.....no one is without fault, therefor do not deceive yourself.

John1 7:10

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.