We are saved the moment that we believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again. See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. This is all that is required to be reconciled to God. We are at that moment sealed by the Holy Spirit 'until the day of redemption' ie. once saved always saved. Repentance is a change of mind, which we enacted when we believed.
Your past sins are past, and washed away. The accuser will try and remind you of them, just rebuke him. He has nothing to say to you that you cannot ignore.
Hello, I see you say you believe in once saved, always saved.
If so, how do you explain Jesus's warning to Christians to avoid sin? If Christians are already saved then why try to avoid sin anymore?
And how do you explain Jesus clearly saying that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven in Matthew 12:31?
And do you think Christians are robbed of their free will to sin when they become a Christian. If so, how do you explain even angels in heaven having freewill to sin, like satan, but human beings don't on earth?
Hello, I see you say you believe in once saved, always saved.
Definitely:
Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
We are sealed until the day we die or are taken up at the rapture ie. for ever.
If so, how do you explain Jesus's warning to Christians to avoid sin? If Christians are already saved then why try to avoid sin anymore?
This is something we should always be doing. We have a choice when confronted with temptation. Avoid sin. This has nothing to do with our salvation - we are justified by faith, not works. Actively committing or avoiding sin is a work.
And how do you explain Jesus clearly saying that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven in Matthew 12:31?
Define 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit'.
And do you think Christians are robbed of their free will to sin when they become a Christian. If so, how do you explain even angels in heaven having freewill to sin, like satan, but human beings don't on earth?
Our free will is not affected by our salvation, otherwise there would be no warnings against sinning. We are free to do as we please, or as God pleases. Choose wisely.
Didn't you take on the name of Christ when you were saved? If the answer is yes, then why would you not also take on the attribute to be sinless, to sin no more? In John 5:14 and John 8:11 Jesus tells man and woman to go and sin no more. Also note that Jesus taught that we will be known by our fruit, which is either good or evil. Matthew 7:16-20 here Jesus tells us that the tree will either be good or evil not both. Which are you, good or evil? If you still sin, you are evil.
Satan was not in Heaven. He was not cast out of Heaven anywhere in the Bible. He was not an angel of God ever. This presents us with a God that cannot control His angels, nor can He actually save us from sin if you still commit sin after being saved. Let's consider something here. A person knows he's sinned, he feels convicted of it. He then repents and asks God to forgive his sins. By faith it is done. The sins he used to do is forgiven and forgotten. Now since God is more than fair to us all, let's reverse things. The man that was saved commits sin. He is no longer saved because he repented, changed his mind is part of repentance. His life of salvation is now forgotten. That is how this works. You are not saved and sin too. Yes I know there is the 2nd work to be done called sanctification that a person that is currently saved from sin can ask God to remove his carnal nature and clean his spiritual heart and to fill it with the Holy Ghost. Now that person is truly free from all committed and inherited sins. But he does not go about still committing sin or he is lost still.
Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning? When you enter the Kingdom of God? If yes, then the Kingdom of God is here now for you to enter. Come to the Church Of God, a church building where the saved do not say they're saved and yet sin.
So again the question, do you claim salvation and still sin? You as the tree are either good or evil not both. Saved or sinner. Only two choices.
No human being can be 'sinless' except for Jesus Christ. We need to distinguish between the two natures present in the believers person, the flesh (which we're born with) and the spirit (which is 'born' when we are saved). The flesh is definitely evil, it cannot do good. But the spirit is perfect - it cannot sin. Two natures.
There are many things we should do once we've been saved, but none of them affect our standing as sons (and daughters) of God. They are works, and our salvation is based purely on grace, the free gift, not on works.
The flesh is evil, born in sin, the spirit is perfect, born of the Holy Spirit. So we're both good (spirit) and evil (flesh).
Re Satan
Luk 10:18, Isa_14:12, Job 1:6
God does not 'control' any being. We (created beings) have free will, granted to us by God, and can choose our own paths.
When we're saved ALL our sins, past, present AND future are forgiven and washed away.
Our salvation is not dependent on works. Also, the Bible is clear that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit when we are saved, and that He seals us until the day of redemption (we die or are raptured): Eph 1:13 and Eph 4:30. There are no conditions attached except that we believe: 1Co 15:1-4
Our carnal nature will be removed when our flesh is replaced with our resurrection bodies - we will struggle with our flesh until then. Paul himself had an ongoing battle with this very issue: Rom 7:18
Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning?
You stop sinning when you die.
'We are redeemed people trapped in unredeemed bodies' - Dr. Michael Heiser
Then if we cannot be saved from sin, I suppose Jesus lied to us when He commanded 2 different people in Jn. 5:14 and Jn. 8:11 go and sin no more. Why did Jesus die then? To save us in sin? What you state is not founded on the Bible.
Matthew 1:21 states "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Here it says He saves us from sin not in them. When man or woman repents and gets saved, it is salvation from sin. At that time, God only addresses sin you have committed in the past. He doesn't need to address sin that is present, because those that really repent, do not sin any longer. They can choose to sin, but if they do, it is called backsliding. God also does not forgive sins in the future, because again the one that is saved is not committing sin in the future.
There are 2 definite works we must do to be saved and have the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. These 2 are the same holy being by the way. As I already said, you must repent and be saved from sin. Then you must pray to God to remove the carnal nature and infill your heart with the Holy Ghost. See this verse where Paul was ministering to saved but not sanctified souls.
Acts 19:2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." They were believers of Christ signifying salvation. Why would Paul ask the question if you automatically got the Holy Ghost upon salvation? The verse would not be needed if what you believe is true.
The one thing you did get correct, we stop sinning when we die. When we repent, and are saved, we are dead to sin. That is the salvation God accepts. So if you're still in your sins, you're lost, dead spiritually and will not make Heaven your home. Unless you repent and be saved from sin now.
Titus 2:12 says we live godly now. How can the sinner be godly? He or she can't. You're deceived and must repent.
Final comment. Think honestly about this. In the Old Testament under Levitical law, or Mosaic law which is the same, the tabernacle with its altar of sacrifice, the exterior courtyard, the 1st & 2nd rooms...In that Levitical law, a blood sacrifice was required to atone for sin, at which time God counted that person righteous and sins were forgiven. That sacrifice had to be repeated yearly, as it did nothing more but save from sins committed & was repeated yearly. In the dispensation of Christ, the NT, He died on the cross & His blood was shed to atone for man's sin. Levitical, the sins were washed away on a yearly basis. In the NT, the blood of Christ cleanses us from sins committed for as long as we obey. Committing sin again removes that cleansing from the blood of Christ.
His blood does not save us from present/future sin because you'd not sin in the present or you couldn't have been saved. Ex: at 12 PM and 0 seconds you get saved. You can't have in your heart to be saved & to desire freedom from sin but at 12 PM & 1 second decide you'll sin just after being saved. His blood doesn't need to save from future sin. You would have lost the desire to sin when saved. Yes people can backslide, they disobey God after salvation and the atonement for sin is broken. Salvation never creates a saved sinner.
Saying we commit sin after the blood of Christ was applied is saying the Levitical law of sacrifice is better as it atones yearly but the blood of Christ doesn't free us from sin, if you believe you still sin after salvation. This means thinking Christ's blood is less powerful than bulls & goats blood. I'd hope you see that is wrong to think that Christ's blood is less powerful.
Ro. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Adam's sin caused all to be guilty of sin. Christ obeyed, became sacrifice on cross to save us from sin if the blood is applied. No righteous sinners exist.
Comments by Alex about the times we are living in. Remember Jesus scolded the Pharisees b/c they cd not discern the times and the seasons. Are not the 2000 swine that perished in the river symbolic of a 2000 yr spritual famine coming a night season when NO MAN can work that great abomination of desolation that Jesus warned us about. In Pharoahs dream he saw 14 kine come out of the river each animal was symbolic of 1 yr. A great famine of 14 yrs duration 7 good and 7 bad but my point is each animal was symbolic of 1 yr. Are not the 2000 swine that perished in the river symbolic of a 2000 yrs spritual famine not a famine of natural bread but a famine of hearing his voice THE WORD OF THE LORD we have not heard his voice in 2000 yrs.Jesus said the days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the son of man but you will not see them. The last 2000 yrs have been that time of desolation, 6.5 million jews died in hitlers death camp but God did not interceed for them simply b/c we are in that time of th great abomination of desolation when NO MAN CAN WORK . Just as he was dead for 2 days is just symbolic that he will not RISE AGAIN IN THE HEARTS OF MANKIND TILL THE 3 RD DAY. We are early in the rd day now . The great abomination of desolation has been upon us the last 2000 yrs .Even Paul said after my death shall grevious wolves come in to the Church Thus he gave them up till the woman gives birth as Micah said in 5 . But 4 times Jesus said he wd raise them up the 3 rd day again. Remember Jesus said your House is left unto you desolate .And in Hosea 6 he says after 2 days will he raise us up, and on the 3 rd day shall we will live in his sight,This is not about natural Israel but about the Israel of God. All the unrest around the world is just the signs of the times and the seasons Jesus spoke about When the Woman will go into Child birth simply b/c of the book that is gonna be opened which is the NEW Covenant . The WORDS of that book are the NEW COVENANT .
I've seen this same discussion played out repeatedly online and I'm not sure if either party learns anything from the exchange. The scriptures shared to support each point of view doesn't seem surprising to either party, but some seem to put more emphasis on one set of scriptures and less on another. Both sides agree grace through faith is what saves Ephesians 2:8-9. I've noticed that one side sometimes assumes the other side doesn't believe in grace, but that's a false assumption. I think the key question is how important is it to avoid sin? According to Jesus very important: Matthew 5:48.
Many of the parables were spoken to his followers (Christians) to fear God and keep his commandments and that narrow is the gate leading to heaven (few will find it) and wide is the gate leading to hell. If all Christians are already saved what's the point of trying? Maybe not all Christians who assume they are saved are and maybe some are lukewarm. Matthew 7:21-23. I think it's safe to say that Christianity is an active religion- the term literally means a Christ follower which involves action and movement.
If someone follows Christ I believe they can have confidence in their salvation. John 5:24 If someone lives an entire life of sin and follows the world and puts their treasure in the world and not in heaven, but they were sprinked as a baby or responded to an altar call 40 years ago, are they really a Christ follower? God is the judge, but I think that person should be afraid of going to hell and should turn from evil and follow Jesus, because of scriptures like Luke 12:5.
We're all impefect and sin, just as Paul admitted he struggled with, but that shouldn't stop someone from trying very hard to avoid sin, be obedient, and be a light to the world as Jesus said. I think someone who thinks they earned a get out of jail free card and uses it as a license to enjoy a life of sin and pursue evil will be surprised in the end as predicted in Matthew 7:21-23.
Adam, you're correct, this has been a long, ongoing discussion, one which I've had (& enjoyed) with David over the previous weeks. I had stopped contributing as I believed that with all that was said & shown from the Scriptures, our positions remained unchanged based on our understanding of them. He believes that he is sinless as Christ has saved him from sin & from ever sinning again. So I'm not rehashing all those points here again.
What I will ask: What was the purpose & what was accomplished by Christ's death on the Cross? In theological terms, Jesus was sent for the singular purpose of being a substitutionary atonement for sinful mankind. Had that not happened, we would have long ago felt the full force of God's Anger against us. Jesus stepped into the gap, becoming the propitiatory offering (i.e. both an atonement for sins & what was acceptable to God to avert His Wrath from us). So did this act of love free us from sins? Not at all. It only provided the judicial requirement for God to accept a Sacrifice that would be the means for our payment & our pardon. Without such a sacrifice, we may as well turn to the Jewish sacrificial system or pursue anything that we choose (e.g. good works, self denial, self-flagellation, etc.) in hope of satisfying God. This is still being done all over the world rather than turning to the One from God, Whom God accepted.
Then, could not Christ's Sacrifice provide us more than just a pardon? It certainly could if through it we could be forgiven & cleansed from past sins & changed so that we will no longer be 'repeat offenders'. But His Blood could never do that, simply because Christ's Sacrifice was only for our pardon not for removal of our ability to sin, however much we desire not to sin. We're still in sinful bodies with a sin nature, from which sin emanates. If His Sacrifice gave us new bodies without the sin nature (as Adam enjoyed in Eden), I would heartily concur with David, but He did give us His Spirit to help us.
Seeing your post just made me wonder. You know satan was not ever in Heaven? So what do you take of say 2 Peter 2:4 or Jude 1:6? Which are pretty straight forward. About angels sinning. I'll just state this. God our Eternal Father is so much higher than us. As His ways, and thoughts, also are so high above us.
So as I believe things between angels and "us" are two different categories. One thing I believe our Father gives all is "free will". I myself would never condemn anyone(person) who was say "touched" by the Lord. Say they repented well and dropped many sinful things of this world. Then say they made a mistake and did something "sinful". Would you say that person is no longer saved? Even if they knew they made a mistake, confessed to the Lord, and tried to learn from it and keep on repenting and living for the Lord?
We are still here in earth. I know there are some people who say they are "perfect" and "sin free" after being saved by the Lord. I myself could never say that. Keeping a humble state of mind. I only see my Lord Jesus Christ, and my Holy Father, as perfect. I try my best to follow in the footsteps of the Lord and live for the Will of our Father. As I don't condemn people this does not mean I say it's ok, or right, to "sin". I guess I just have more "mercy" and "forgiveness" in me than "judgement" or "condemnation".
I know we're all different and have our own views. This is not to start an argument. I just felt to post from the heart.
The use of the word angel in the 2 verses you'd referred to is in reference to messengers, as in men or women that were used by God to preach. If they sin after their calling then you get the warning in the verses you mentioned. There are those that preached and backslid. They sinned and died spiritually. Just like Adam died spiritually in the beginning. Eve was deceived to believe she could sin and not die. The lie is still alive and deceiving many today.
Matthew 7:17-23
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Here we see there's either good trees & good fruit or evil trees & evil fruit. Man is the trees & we're either good or evil not both. If you are guilty of sin, you're evil, working iniquity and Jesus will say depart from Me. If you won't obey God by being saved FROM sin, that's His response, depart.
This isn't personal between myself or anyone reading, but a friendly reminder sinners cannot enter Heaven nor be part of His kingdom now.
Well. To me angels of the Lord are more than just men, or women, preachers. What about the "angels" of Sodom and Gomorrah who smote men with blindness? As they stated "the Lord hath sent us here to destroy it." What about the "angel" of the Lord who killed 185,000 Assyrians? Revelation 10:1 is clearly not talking about a human being. Also Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of "angels" fighting satan in Heaven. David seeing an "angel" of the Lord standing between earth and heaven. I could go on and on.
If you don't believe in angels and have your own assumption of the things in the Bible. That's fine. I myself believe in angels, Heaven, miracles, etc. Also believing in demons and satan. Having actually experienced things that most people would not believe. But that's ok.
Again I understand we are all different and can have our own views. This isn't to argue. Just to finish, my part, on angels.
And Richard, respectfully, I made mention that angels were men or women delivering messages in the 2 and only those 2 verses you mentioned specifically. If you want to talk of angels in the recount of events at Sodom and Gomorrah, then it's a case where different subjects, different people, and different angels were present and were involved. Those were angels, heavenly beings God sent to bring Lot and his family out of the city. They also delivered a message from God. These are 2 totally different uses of the word angel.
In Rev. 12:7-9 you refer to heaven in this use and meaning is high and lifted up spiritual place, not the Heaven God dwells. Heaven has various uses and meanings. There is no way possible that God has enemies in His Heaven, meaning where He dwells.
Remember you're trying to correct me, believing that I don't understand the Bible, yet you argue for having sin in your life. Jesus plainly states we must sin no more. Paul stated his God given purpose in Acts 26:18 "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." How can one be in the light but still living in darkness?
Jeremiah 23:21-22 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings." Ministry that God did not send teaches falsely that we will sin more or less until Heaven. Jeremiah tells us that marks them as false teachers.
Ask yourself this "If sinners go to Heaven who ends up in Hell and the Lake of Fire?" Just to be clear, all have need to be saved, and all can be set free from sin here now by Jesus' power to save from sin. Those that reject Christ and His teachings will be rejected by Him.
OK then explain about the angels Richard had mentioned that appeared, sent by God to escort Lot and family out of Sodom and Gomorrah. These angels had to fend off sexual advances from the homosexual men of that city?
My earlier comment about men and women being angels, the word angel is used in this context as God's ministry composed of men and women that had been called to preach. But those people sinned and having backslid were cast out of the kingdom of God.
Do some more Research. Angels do not have sex organs. Why would they? They don't make angel babies.
Your like a dog with a chew stick that won't chew. Who cares what angels have under their robes???? Anybody ???
How about President of Turkey saying today that He's going to run Israel out of Jerusalem? Now try to imagine Biden to tell someone as crazy as Erdongon that we might have to enforce sanctions....
Ok David. So what it seems is you don't believe in "fallen" angels? So if you don't you would have to come up with a second meaning for the word. Ok. Like before I'm not trying to correct you or say you don't understand the Bible. We're different people. You don't believe in "fallen" angels and I do. Let's just leave it peacefully there.
I tried to pass on the "sin" thing. So you say I have sin in my life? What sin is in my life? So if you're thinking on the Ten Commandments or something that's quite easy to pass. Do you know that a certain thought in your head could be counted for a sin to God? Or just glancing at something that came in your way? Which your eyes may do naturally but after you look that may also be a sin. Or just a word blurted out of your mouth accidentally because something terrible was about to happen to you. Also a sin. We are fighting till the day we die to stay away from "all" sin in this earth. None of us know what is going to happen tomorrow.
Like I said in the first post I made. I will never call myself perfect even though I try very hard to stay away from all sin. I am a humble person. If you think you're "perfect" you're exalting yourself pretty high. I'd be careful with that. God knows everything. We're here on earth where sin is rampant everywhere as I'm sure you know. Again, I don't say it's "ok" to sin. My life has changed dramatically since accepting the Lord. But we were all sinners once and I pray for people. Don't condemn them. Especially if they're making an effort as a lot of people don't.
I don't want any to perish or go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the Judge not me.
OK I see where you're coming from now Richard. You define sin so strict that in your thinking nobody can possibly not sin. You've justified in your mind that you're doing well spiritually while still committing sin. Do remember that sin isn't accidentally committed. If the cuss word just accidentally comes out...no actually the cuss word tells us that way of talking is still in your heart. Just one example. Excusing sin just won't be accepted with God. And I'm not judging but the word of God does. I could point to many verses that condemns sin, but you've already redefined what sin is to excuse continuing to commit sin. Any thing we do is sin to you, so of course since you can't avoid sin you must be OK with God. Not even close. This goes for everyone reading not just Richard, if you sin you are not saved. Sin is not accidental. It's a shame your god isn't powerful enough to save you from sin. The God I serve is certainly that powerful. He saved me from sin, and He changed my heart to be free of the carnal man. He could save you from sin. The problem is many want saved from the guilt and penalty of sin but don't want saved from the power of sin.
Don't worry Richard, this is my last reply to you. If you get tired of accidentally sinning God can save you if you honestly repent.
Thank you for that nice reply brother David. Like my statement of just not calling myself "perfect". I know when I make a little mistake, with maybe some bad thoughts, say because something may annoy me very much. Like we all probably go through. I have no doubt our Father forgives me for every little mistake I may make. As in prayer always asking for his eternal mercy and forgiveness and it is done. To correct you though I do not think "anything we do is sin." I'm not redefining anything. I could probably write down about thirty things, in the Bible, we should try to stay away from and that's not everything sinful in the world. I have honestly repented, with help of a power not of my own, the Holy Ghost, and will do my best to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ always. Knowing I'm doing spiritually well. Not just thinking it. The closer you draw to our Father the closer He will draw to you. Luke 18:9-14 is a good parable of the Lord about humbleness. James 4:6.
It's very sad you say "your god" and "the God I serve." As you seem to portray I am not serving the one Almighty Holy Eternal God. Our Perfect Father in Heaven. Me thinking most who post on this site are focused on the same Almighty God. As we can tell being through Jesus Christ.
Also as you stated. This will be my last post on this subject. I just want to apologize if anything I've stated has made any kind of tension between us. As I don't want. God Bless you brother David. In the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To add to the suggestions already made... Remember that there is only Life or Death. Life is the Holy Spirit. Death is not having the Holy Spirit. So my question for you is: Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?
Just repentance is NOT enough. You must be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, and receive the Holy Spirit. Then you have Life. Then you are free. Then you have the seal of God. Then you belong to God.
If you have truly repented of your sins and have laid them at the foot of the cross then know this, that God is faithful and will keep Hs promises. Rebuke Satan when he brings these sins back into your thoughts. He wants you to dwell in your past sins but God your Father has a better life for you. A life of freedom, freedom from the burden of sin. You are no longer bound by the law but free from the law. You are secure in the hand of the Father, free from condemnation ( John 5:24, Romans 8:1), and NO one can remove you from His grasp. As soon as your past sins come to mind turn to Jesus in prayer and take Him on His promise. Leave it at the cross. Find a list of God's promises and when you read them know that He made those promises to you and that God cannot break a promise.
Just to add to the other good comments given. When you have truly repented (deep contrition for our sins against a Holy God & against man) & found forgiveness that is promised from God's Word ( 1 John 1:9), then you are indeed in a right standing in God's Eyes ( Ephesians 1:3-6). If after what you have done & God has promised to do for you & in you, you still feel guilt over those sins & have no joy or peace, it seems that you have not left those sins at the foot of the cross (i.e. laid your sins upon Jesus Who came for this very purpose).
You need to determine in your heart & mind to leave them behind at the Cross & trust God for doing this & accepting you. Do you have a real sense of the Holy Spirit in you working in some ways to confirm the holy transaction that has been done? Or is this teaching of the Spirit still a mystery & an absence in your experience? Are you prepared to stand on God's Word, believing in what it says to you, or rather wanting your mind to believe & dwell on things that are past, that which was forgiven & forgotten? Sometimes the memory of our past sins can remain with us, but they shouldn't cause us to doubt God anymore, thus losing our joy & peace.
One also needs to be conscious of the lion that prowls, Satan, the enemy of God & of your soul. He not only blinds & deceives the world to disbelieve in God, but more so, attacks God's children in many ways. And one way is to create doubt (as he did with Adam & Eve) & fear. It may be that he is reaching out to you in this way to keep you bound, restless, & removing the peace that you should be enjoying. At those times at night, call out to your Heavenly Father, claim His promises to you & command the spirit of fear to depart. In your waking hours, stay alert by attending to the Word of God & prayer - Satan hates it when we do that & the Spirit of God will minister to you.
When guilt attacks, counter it with what Jesus Christ has done for us:
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. ( 2Corinthians 5:21)
John chapter 15 is a valuable resource for revival and renewal. In particular, our continually abiding in Jesus Christ will keep us from becoming withered branches.
The letter to the Ephesians gives us a glorious inventory of what we have been blessed with in Jesus Christ and how to make good use of our inheritance.
1 Peter chapter 1 shows us that by faith we can rejoice even in the heaviness put on us by manifold temptations.
God looks upon our hearts , and tries them and knows them better than we do .
The heart is the very depth of our soul and spirit and mind .
If our mind is unsettled or restless we need to trust the Lord .
Yes the devil can condemn us in our thoughts and unsettle us if permitted to do so .
Get your heart right with God , it's the heart where all starts .
We can not do anything about the past unless we are able to right a wrong . For example if I stole a sweater from my neighbor I would return it , if that's impossible then that's understood by God . He knows everything. Confessions of sin sometimes requires righting a wrong .
I'm not saying this is your case but consider it .
If our heart condemn us not then we are good with God !
And we can then stand on the word , and trust in the name of the Lord Jesus ....
Faith comes by hearing the word of God and believing to the point of trust: Jesus is the Word, made flesh; He is alive today by the word ( the Bible).He not a man that he should lie!! - He is the Truth at all times. He fullfilled the plan of God for everyone JOHN 3:16. Oh! ,what a Gift - Life and being reconciled to our Father. (please read Romans chapter 5) Joy will cause jumping .,skipping and crying, but this joy ALSO gives peace ,down on the inside because of the truth (He gave us his Word ) So when the devil come in the middle of the night to accuse you, He(the devil) is doing what he got put out of heaven for.(Revelation12:10 ). It's not knowing in your intelligence what Jesus has done for you, but in your spirit by the word of God; then receive it, into your heart that it may grow in your born-again spirit
And if you believe and know by how your life has changed from within (your desires has changed) Just think Born Again-Old things passed away- a babe in Christ- seek the word like a baby seeks milk - eat it!!!!!!! the word..A new baby dont try to figure it out He/she is just happy to be alive...in your case alive in Christ ;because without Christ there is no Life....I thank God and His son, Jesus for you, The Angel rejoice at your salvation ,Me too...rejoice with us..for the gift you have received you are saved by graced..that not of yourself. It had
nothing to do with what you did or didnt do...Its not your righteousnes that makes us acceptable but the imputed righteousness of our Savior Jesus The Christ..It was by faith in the word...and the work of Jesus on the Cross. The devil is Lying again !!!
Read: Romans 5:8 - St John 17 chapt. Ephesian 2:8 Ephesian2:5..Jesus knows our end back to the beginning.....REJOICE! .REJOICE !
LET US ALL HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS..IT'S ONLY ONE CHURCH- FIND YOURSELF IN THE 7; REVELATION 1-3 Lets Pay special attention to the church in Sardis
Hi Jackie, I believe salvation absolutely has to do with what we do or don't do. The reason I believe that is the entire gospel is based on someone taking action. People who do nothing by default will go to hell. Jesus says you must believe. That is an action. He calls people to follow Him- that's an action. He calls people to repent and confess of their sin- that's an action. Loving is an action. Acting like a Christian is an action. God gave us the gift of freewill to choose, which is an action. He loved us enough to give us a choice to follow Him. Good works are not bad. I hear some people saying it's bad to be good and that seems to have the stamp of the devil on it. While it's true we're saved by grace and not by works, we don't have grace if we don't believe or follow Jesus in the first place.
It's possible you meant good works only by your comment, but my point is that our actions absolutely determine where we're going. If it didn't, Jesus would not have spent so much time telling parables about how most people will go to hell and how to avoid that, and to avoid sin, and don't be of this world. There's been false teachings spread around lately among Christians who are saying it's totally ok to sin and be in the world and that's the opposite of what the Bible says.
Your past sins are past, and washed away. The accuser will try and remind you of them, just rebuke him. He has nothing to say to you that you cannot ignore.
If so, how do you explain Jesus's warning to Christians to avoid sin? If Christians are already saved then why try to avoid sin anymore?
And how do you explain Jesus clearly saying that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven in Matthew 12:31?
And do you think Christians are robbed of their free will to sin when they become a Christian. If so, how do you explain even angels in heaven having freewill to sin, like satan, but human beings don't on earth?
Hello, I see you say you believe in once saved, always saved.
Definitely:
Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
We are sealed until the day we die or are taken up at the rapture ie. for ever.
If so, how do you explain Jesus's warning to Christians to avoid sin? If Christians are already saved then why try to avoid sin anymore?
This is something we should always be doing. We have a choice when confronted with temptation. Avoid sin. This has nothing to do with our salvation - we are justified by faith, not works. Actively committing or avoiding sin is a work.
And how do you explain Jesus clearly saying that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven in Matthew 12:31?
Define 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit'.
And do you think Christians are robbed of their free will to sin when they become a Christian. If so, how do you explain even angels in heaven having freewill to sin, like satan, but human beings don't on earth?
Our free will is not affected by our salvation, otherwise there would be no warnings against sinning. We are free to do as we please, or as God pleases. Choose wisely.
Satan was not in Heaven. He was not cast out of Heaven anywhere in the Bible. He was not an angel of God ever. This presents us with a God that cannot control His angels, nor can He actually save us from sin if you still commit sin after being saved. Let's consider something here. A person knows he's sinned, he feels convicted of it. He then repents and asks God to forgive his sins. By faith it is done. The sins he used to do is forgiven and forgotten. Now since God is more than fair to us all, let's reverse things. The man that was saved commits sin. He is no longer saved because he repented, changed his mind is part of repentance. His life of salvation is now forgotten. That is how this works. You are not saved and sin too. Yes I know there is the 2nd work to be done called sanctification that a person that is currently saved from sin can ask God to remove his carnal nature and clean his spiritual heart and to fill it with the Holy Ghost. Now that person is truly free from all committed and inherited sins. But he does not go about still committing sin or he is lost still.
Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning? When you enter the Kingdom of God? If yes, then the Kingdom of God is here now for you to enter. Come to the Church Of God, a church building where the saved do not say they're saved and yet sin.
So again the question, do you claim salvation and still sin? You as the tree are either good or evil not both. Saved or sinner. Only two choices.
There are many things we should do once we've been saved, but none of them affect our standing as sons (and daughters) of God. They are works, and our salvation is based purely on grace, the free gift, not on works.
The flesh is evil, born in sin, the spirit is perfect, born of the Holy Spirit. So we're both good (spirit) and evil (flesh).
Re Satan
Luk 10:18, Isa_14:12, Job 1:6
God does not 'control' any being. We (created beings) have free will, granted to us by God, and can choose our own paths.
When we're saved ALL our sins, past, present AND future are forgiven and washed away.
Our salvation is not dependent on works. Also, the Bible is clear that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit when we are saved, and that He seals us until the day of redemption (we die or are raptured): Eph 1:13 and Eph 4:30. There are no conditions attached except that we believe: 1Co 15:1-4
Our carnal nature will be removed when our flesh is replaced with our resurrection bodies - we will struggle with our flesh until then. Paul himself had an ongoing battle with this very issue: Rom 7:18
Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning?
You stop sinning when you die.
'We are redeemed people trapped in unredeemed bodies' - Dr. Michael Heiser
Come back often.
Matthew 1:21 states "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Here it says He saves us from sin not in them. When man or woman repents and gets saved, it is salvation from sin. At that time, God only addresses sin you have committed in the past. He doesn't need to address sin that is present, because those that really repent, do not sin any longer. They can choose to sin, but if they do, it is called backsliding. God also does not forgive sins in the future, because again the one that is saved is not committing sin in the future.
There are 2 definite works we must do to be saved and have the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. These 2 are the same holy being by the way. As I already said, you must repent and be saved from sin. Then you must pray to God to remove the carnal nature and infill your heart with the Holy Ghost. See this verse where Paul was ministering to saved but not sanctified souls.
Acts 19:2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." They were believers of Christ signifying salvation. Why would Paul ask the question if you automatically got the Holy Ghost upon salvation? The verse would not be needed if what you believe is true.
The one thing you did get correct, we stop sinning when we die. When we repent, and are saved, we are dead to sin. That is the salvation God accepts. So if you're still in your sins, you're lost, dead spiritually and will not make Heaven your home. Unless you repent and be saved from sin now.
Titus 2:12 says we live godly now. How can the sinner be godly? He or she can't. You're deceived and must repent.
His blood does not save us from present/future sin because you'd not sin in the present or you couldn't have been saved. Ex: at 12 PM and 0 seconds you get saved. You can't have in your heart to be saved & to desire freedom from sin but at 12 PM & 1 second decide you'll sin just after being saved. His blood doesn't need to save from future sin. You would have lost the desire to sin when saved. Yes people can backslide, they disobey God after salvation and the atonement for sin is broken. Salvation never creates a saved sinner.
Saying we commit sin after the blood of Christ was applied is saying the Levitical law of sacrifice is better as it atones yearly but the blood of Christ doesn't free us from sin, if you believe you still sin after salvation. This means thinking Christ's blood is less powerful than bulls & goats blood. I'd hope you see that is wrong to think that Christ's blood is less powerful.
Ro. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Adam's sin caused all to be guilty of sin. Christ obeyed, became sacrifice on cross to save us from sin if the blood is applied. No righteous sinners exist.
Many of the parables were spoken to his followers (Christians) to fear God and keep his commandments and that narrow is the gate leading to heaven (few will find it) and wide is the gate leading to hell. If all Christians are already saved what's the point of trying? Maybe not all Christians who assume they are saved are and maybe some are lukewarm. Matthew 7:21-23. I think it's safe to say that Christianity is an active religion- the term literally means a Christ follower which involves action and movement.
If someone follows Christ I believe they can have confidence in their salvation. John 5:24 If someone lives an entire life of sin and follows the world and puts their treasure in the world and not in heaven, but they were sprinked as a baby or responded to an altar call 40 years ago, are they really a Christ follower? God is the judge, but I think that person should be afraid of going to hell and should turn from evil and follow Jesus, because of scriptures like Luke 12:5.
We're all impefect and sin, just as Paul admitted he struggled with, but that shouldn't stop someone from trying very hard to avoid sin, be obedient, and be a light to the world as Jesus said. I think someone who thinks they earned a get out of jail free card and uses it as a license to enjoy a life of sin and pursue evil will be surprised in the end as predicted in Matthew 7:21-23.
What I will ask: What was the purpose & what was accomplished by Christ's death on the Cross? In theological terms, Jesus was sent for the singular purpose of being a substitutionary atonement for sinful mankind. Had that not happened, we would have long ago felt the full force of God's Anger against us. Jesus stepped into the gap, becoming the propitiatory offering (i.e. both an atonement for sins & what was acceptable to God to avert His Wrath from us). So did this act of love free us from sins? Not at all. It only provided the judicial requirement for God to accept a Sacrifice that would be the means for our payment & our pardon. Without such a sacrifice, we may as well turn to the Jewish sacrificial system or pursue anything that we choose (e.g. good works, self denial, self-flagellation, etc.) in hope of satisfying God. This is still being done all over the world rather than turning to the One from God, Whom God accepted.
Then, could not Christ's Sacrifice provide us more than just a pardon? It certainly could if through it we could be forgiven & cleansed from past sins & changed so that we will no longer be 'repeat offenders'. But His Blood could never do that, simply because Christ's Sacrifice was only for our pardon not for removal of our ability to sin, however much we desire not to sin. We're still in sinful bodies with a sin nature, from which sin emanates. If His Sacrifice gave us new bodies without the sin nature (as Adam enjoyed in Eden), I would heartily concur with David, but He did give us His Spirit to help us.
Seeing your post just made me wonder. You know satan was not ever in Heaven? So what do you take of say 2 Peter 2:4 or Jude 1:6? Which are pretty straight forward. About angels sinning. I'll just state this. God our Eternal Father is so much higher than us. As His ways, and thoughts, also are so high above us.
So as I believe things between angels and "us" are two different categories. One thing I believe our Father gives all is "free will". I myself would never condemn anyone(person) who was say "touched" by the Lord. Say they repented well and dropped many sinful things of this world. Then say they made a mistake and did something "sinful". Would you say that person is no longer saved? Even if they knew they made a mistake, confessed to the Lord, and tried to learn from it and keep on repenting and living for the Lord?
We are still here in earth. I know there are some people who say they are "perfect" and "sin free" after being saved by the Lord. I myself could never say that. Keeping a humble state of mind. I only see my Lord Jesus Christ, and my Holy Father, as perfect. I try my best to follow in the footsteps of the Lord and live for the Will of our Father. As I don't condemn people this does not mean I say it's ok, or right, to "sin". I guess I just have more "mercy" and "forgiveness" in me than "judgement" or "condemnation".
I know we're all different and have our own views. This is not to start an argument. I just felt to post from the heart.
God Bless you.
Matthew 7:17-23
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Here we see there's either good trees & good fruit or evil trees & evil fruit. Man is the trees & we're either good or evil not both. If you are guilty of sin, you're evil, working iniquity and Jesus will say depart from Me. If you won't obey God by being saved FROM sin, that's His response, depart.
This isn't personal between myself or anyone reading, but a friendly reminder sinners cannot enter Heaven nor be part of His kingdom now.
If you don't believe in angels and have your own assumption of the things in the Bible. That's fine. I myself believe in angels, Heaven, miracles, etc. Also believing in demons and satan. Having actually experienced things that most people would not believe. But that's ok.
Again I understand we are all different and can have our own views. This isn't to argue. Just to finish, my part, on angels.
God Bless you David.
In Rev. 12:7-9 you refer to heaven in this use and meaning is high and lifted up spiritual place, not the Heaven God dwells. Heaven has various uses and meanings. There is no way possible that God has enemies in His Heaven, meaning where He dwells.
Remember you're trying to correct me, believing that I don't understand the Bible, yet you argue for having sin in your life. Jesus plainly states we must sin no more. Paul stated his God given purpose in Acts 26:18 "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." How can one be in the light but still living in darkness?
Jeremiah 23:21-22 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings." Ministry that God did not send teaches falsely that we will sin more or less until Heaven. Jeremiah tells us that marks them as false teachers.
Ask yourself this "If sinners go to Heaven who ends up in Hell and the Lake of Fire?" Just to be clear, all have need to be saved, and all can be set free from sin here now by Jesus' power to save from sin. Those that reject Christ and His teachings will be rejected by Him.
My earlier comment about men and women being angels, the word angel is used in this context as God's ministry composed of men and women that had been called to preach. But those people sinned and having backslid were cast out of the kingdom of God.
Your like a dog with a chew stick that won't chew. Who cares what angels have under their robes???? Anybody ???
How about President of Turkey saying today that He's going to run Israel out of Jerusalem? Now try to imagine Biden to tell someone as crazy as Erdongon that we might have to enforce sanctions....
I tried to pass on the "sin" thing. So you say I have sin in my life? What sin is in my life? So if you're thinking on the Ten Commandments or something that's quite easy to pass. Do you know that a certain thought in your head could be counted for a sin to God? Or just glancing at something that came in your way? Which your eyes may do naturally but after you look that may also be a sin. Or just a word blurted out of your mouth accidentally because something terrible was about to happen to you. Also a sin. We are fighting till the day we die to stay away from "all" sin in this earth. None of us know what is going to happen tomorrow.
Like I said in the first post I made. I will never call myself perfect even though I try very hard to stay away from all sin. I am a humble person. If you think you're "perfect" you're exalting yourself pretty high. I'd be careful with that. God knows everything. We're here on earth where sin is rampant everywhere as I'm sure you know. Again, I don't say it's "ok" to sin. My life has changed dramatically since accepting the Lord. But we were all sinners once and I pray for people. Don't condemn them. Especially if they're making an effort as a lot of people don't.
I don't want any to perish or go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the Judge not me.
Peace be with you David. God Bless.
Don't worry Richard, this is my last reply to you. If you get tired of accidentally sinning God can save you if you honestly repent.
It's very sad you say "your god" and "the God I serve." As you seem to portray I am not serving the one Almighty Holy Eternal God. Our Perfect Father in Heaven. Me thinking most who post on this site are focused on the same Almighty God. As we can tell being through Jesus Christ.
Also as you stated. This will be my last post on this subject. I just want to apologize if anything I've stated has made any kind of tension between us. As I don't want. God Bless you brother David. In the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To add to the suggestions already made... Remember that there is only Life or Death. Life is the Holy Spirit. Death is not having the Holy Spirit. So my question for you is: Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?
Just repentance is NOT enough. You must be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, and receive the Holy Spirit. Then you have Life. Then you are free. Then you have the seal of God. Then you belong to God.
Peace & Love in Christ
You need to determine in your heart & mind to leave them behind at the Cross & trust God for doing this & accepting you. Do you have a real sense of the Holy Spirit in you working in some ways to confirm the holy transaction that has been done? Or is this teaching of the Spirit still a mystery & an absence in your experience? Are you prepared to stand on God's Word, believing in what it says to you, or rather wanting your mind to believe & dwell on things that are past, that which was forgiven & forgotten? Sometimes the memory of our past sins can remain with us, but they shouldn't cause us to doubt God anymore, thus losing our joy & peace.
One also needs to be conscious of the lion that prowls, Satan, the enemy of God & of your soul. He not only blinds & deceives the world to disbelieve in God, but more so, attacks God's children in many ways. And one way is to create doubt (as he did with Adam & Eve) & fear. It may be that he is reaching out to you in this way to keep you bound, restless, & removing the peace that you should be enjoying. At those times at night, call out to your Heavenly Father, claim His promises to you & command the spirit of fear to depart. In your waking hours, stay alert by attending to the Word of God & prayer - Satan hates it when we do that & the Spirit of God will minister to you.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. ( 2Corinthians 5:21)
John chapter 15 is a valuable resource for revival and renewal. In particular, our continually abiding in Jesus Christ will keep us from becoming withered branches.
The letter to the Ephesians gives us a glorious inventory of what we have been blessed with in Jesus Christ and how to make good use of our inheritance.
1 Peter chapter 1 shows us that by faith we can rejoice even in the heaviness put on us by manifold temptations.
God looks upon our hearts , and tries them and knows them better than we do .
The heart is the very depth of our soul and spirit and mind .
If our mind is unsettled or restless we need to trust the Lord .
Yes the devil can condemn us in our thoughts and unsettle us if permitted to do so .
Get your heart right with God , it's the heart where all starts .
We can not do anything about the past unless we are able to right a wrong . For example if I stole a sweater from my neighbor I would return it , if that's impossible then that's understood by God . He knows everything. Confessions of sin sometimes requires righting a wrong .
I'm not saying this is your case but consider it .
If our heart condemn us not then we are good with God !
And we can then stand on the word , and trust in the name of the Lord Jesus ....
And if you believe and know by how your life has changed from within (your desires has changed) Just think Born Again-Old things passed away- a babe in Christ- seek the word like a baby seeks milk - eat it!!!!!!! the word..A new baby dont try to figure it out He/she is just happy to be alive...in your case alive in Christ ;because without Christ there is no Life....I thank God and His son, Jesus for you, The Angel rejoice at your salvation ,Me too...rejoice with us..for the gift you have received you are saved by graced..that not of yourself. It had
nothing to do with what you did or didnt do...Its not your righteousnes that makes us acceptable but the imputed righteousness of our Savior Jesus The Christ..It was by faith in the word...and the work of Jesus on the Cross. The devil is Lying again !!!
Read: Romans 5:8 - St John 17 chapt. Ephesian 2:8 Ephesian2:5..Jesus knows our end back to the beginning.....REJOICE! .REJOICE !
LET US ALL HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS..IT'S ONLY ONE CHURCH- FIND YOURSELF IN THE 7; REVELATION 1-3 Lets Pay special attention to the church in Sardis
Hi Jackie, I believe salvation absolutely has to do with what we do or don't do. The reason I believe that is the entire gospel is based on someone taking action. People who do nothing by default will go to hell. Jesus says you must believe. That is an action. He calls people to follow Him- that's an action. He calls people to repent and confess of their sin- that's an action. Loving is an action. Acting like a Christian is an action. God gave us the gift of freewill to choose, which is an action. He loved us enough to give us a choice to follow Him. Good works are not bad. I hear some people saying it's bad to be good and that seems to have the stamp of the devil on it. While it's true we're saved by grace and not by works, we don't have grace if we don't believe or follow Jesus in the first place.
It's possible you meant good works only by your comment, but my point is that our actions absolutely determine where we're going. If it didn't, Jesus would not have spent so much time telling parables about how most people will go to hell and how to avoid that, and to avoid sin, and don't be of this world. There's been false teachings spread around lately among Christians who are saying it's totally ok to sin and be in the world and that's the opposite of what the Bible says.
God bless...
James 2:17
Romans 6:15
Hebrews 10:26
Rom 7:22
Matthew 7:21
John 14:15
Matt 5:13
Matthew 7:26-27
Eph 5:5-6
Rom 11:19-23
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