Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

God's salvation plan is NOT Bi-Salvation or Dual Salvation. Meaning He has one salvation plan for one set of people and another salvation plan for the other set or groups of people. By your statement it seems you are implying that those groups of people whom you have mentioned, will enter God's Kingdom because of their situation but ROMANS ch. 3 vs. 23 states that "all have sinned." This all includes everyone from Adam to the last person to be born before the coming of the LORD.

This is the very reason I trust the Bible where it states, "God has chosen the saved ones from before the foundation of the world." Hope in God that you are chosen my brother. To say some people get a by-pass to heaven because of their unintended situation is like saying to God, some people are innocent. Please agree with God and do not lean on your own understanding. God bless you

Thankyou for that Adam ,God knows who His sheep are and nothing can come between a Shepherd and His flock . We can talk about Christianity and the Bible all day long , one thing none of us can do is fool God ,we can fool ourselves but not our Creator ,im glad to say that although i dont always agree with what everyone on here says i still feel as if i am in good genuine Christian company wether or not we always agree .

Study the 6th trumpet, day of the Lord. Study the prophets in context, and their words like you are playing a game of concentration, and match them up. The prophets saw it, possibly even were transported through time to witness it 1st hand. They were "bowed down" and "dismayed at the seeing of it" ( Isaiah 21:3). The prophets saw the whole house of Israel destroyed, and power given to the spoiler at noonday, anti-christ ( Jer 15:8) to do his will 42 months.

Three incantations describe the greatest one sided battle ever:

1) Obadiah: Esau (Russia+) obliterates Jacob (US/Israel) to reclaim his stolen birthright.

2) The king of the north (Russia+) easily defeats the king of the south (US/Israel) ( Dan 11:40).

3) The beast (Russia+) desolates Babylon (US/Israel), takes its allies. When the UK sees the smoke of America burning from afar, they will clothe themselves in trembling as everyone goes dark ( Ezekiel 26:18).

The Beast = Russia:

-"More stout than his fellows". Russia has 11 time zones ( Dan 7:20).

-He is the 8th and is of the 7. Russia was the 8th G8 member and is of the G7 ( Rev 17:20)

-In 1991 the USSR suffered a "deadly wound", which has been healed into the Russian Federation that the people will marvel at ( Rev 13:3).

-Even though God has always held back Esau (Russia), he will now bring Esau forth with his northern army to destroy Jacob (US/NATO/Israel) (Ez 38:4).

-Obadiah states Esau (Russia) annihilated Jacob (US/Israel) then engaged in destruction beyond Babylon with an "evil thought" (Ez 38:10), by taking 3 allies from his own camp.

-Esau pounds Jacob so badly that the earth is knocked off its axis and wobbles back and forth like a drunkard (Is 24:20).

-The last time Esau and Jacob met up was on the trail, Gen 33. Jacob was afraid Esau would kill him for stealing his birthright, but instead they exchanged gifts and parted ways.

-Esau will make Jacob lean this time around (Is 24:1-16).

It's a showdown between the two boys.

Richard,

I have a different interpretation. It is tried, logical, explained, and certainly doesn't mean that I'm at risk of missing out on the wedding. Keep your nose in the Old Testament to gain better insight. Please don't patronize me with your assumptions that I need wisdom or saved. That's insulting, like you're on high.

Darrin,

You have just as much of a right to post here as I do. Most of what I wrote is backed up by Scripture which I am not going to take the time to post them all. I didn't just make it up. Some was personal. If we have different interpretations we should be able to converse them peacefully as I tried. I never said you were at risk of missing anything. I don't know you. I pray for you as I pray for everyone. I read the Old and New Testaments of the Holy Bible. I did not patronize you nor do that to anyone. I am not better than any other person on earth and stay humble. I also never said you "needed" understanding. I gave you a Blessing as those verses, I posted, contradict your interpretation from the other post you made.

I am very sorry if I insulted you and that was not my intention. I only posted a couple scriptures and said nothing bad about anyone. If you did not see the love in my post I apologize. I shall not post to you again. Thank you.

God Bless.

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Vague open ended threats like Peter said in his underground Gospel criticizing the strict measures taken to enter heaven. The Bible may say that souls will be eliminated, but it doesn't mean that they will. No where does it say that billions of billions of people are, or were tossed in the lake of fire, only the threat. Same goes for the billions of people that will choose the mark over death during the 42 months of great tribulation between the 6th & 7th trumpets. These survivors of the 6th trumpet will have no choice if they want to live, but to take the mark. If you, your family are starving, are you going to pine away, die, or take the mark? I grantee you 99.9% will take the mark. What if having a US SS# or driver license is accepting the mark?

So, 2 Billion living Muslims will lose their eternal lives because they were born Muslim, and didn't bend a knee to Jesus Christ? Do you understand the ramifications that that puts on all of humanity, especially of those that are limited?

I don't see God throwing away any of his creations, not one of them. Every hair on your head is counted, God knows us all. What of the 107 Billion souls that have lived prior to Christ? They have their place too. Perhaps that's why at the 2nd resurrection the new heavens and earth appear to accommodate everyone?

Read Romans 1 please. God made it possible for everyone to see Him, in His Creation.

It says if we don't see Him, we are WITHOUT EXCUSE.

You are intimating that God is unfair. Why not pray for missionaries to be able to go to those nations who do not have the same freedoms as we have.

Prayer goes, where we can't. We sure can help FUND a missionary of our choice. But we hold on to the money that might GO into those nations you mentioned. It's Gods money anyway we perceive it. Before you accuse me; I give every month to feeding programs around the globe. Food, medicine, water, surgery, housing.

If you don't know a good missionary organization? Try World Challenge. Evangelist David Wilkerson founded it. His son Gary continues it. They send out Numerous missionaries. Money well spent. WorldChallenge dot Org

Let's just try to be a part of the solution, rather than talk it to death. Starving people depend on us.

Mishael

To Richard and Daren.

As I read your comments, I get the sense of selfishness in regards to God's salvation plan. You are thinking to be saved is by works of obedience. You are both forgetting your neighbors around the world who, for no reason of their own, don't have the equal chance to receive the gospel of Jesus the Christ. You are also forgetting the millions and millions of souls that died in the womb. Also, those that died very young before they could understand God's word. What about those who are autistic who don't understand right and wrong? What about those who lived and died before Jesus was ever even born?

God choose people from the womb to the tomb. He choose them not by their good deeds, because everyone does not have an equal chance to perform good deeds, but by His mercy and His Grace from before the world was created. Check out the book of Revaluation which shows us that many people will be saying they did good works and thought they will be allowed to enter heaven based on their works. God bless you

Which Richard?

Hello Vince,

I have only posted once in this thread in reply to what Darrin stated. There was no selfishness in my post at all and if you felt that I apologize. What you state that "I think to be saved is by works of obedience" and that I am "forgetting" about those certain things you posted is false and wrong. You don't know me as I don't know you. Then you bring up people with a disability of their mind? They have a disabilty.. how can you perceive them with people who do not have that disability and may call good evil and evil good?

I do not come to this site to argue or quarrel. Again I apologize if anything I wrote hurt your feelings by you taking it the wrong way.

God Bless you.

Just as the LORD said, they will not understand. God bless you

Hi Richard, thanks for your response. Yes you are correct to say " in the day " but Richard, it's the same thing. Any one day Adam eats, he would surely die. But day here to God means 1000 years. So yes Adam died within a day because he lived 930 years. No man has ever lived pass 1000 years. The only man who lived the longest was Methuselah who lived 969 years.

Vincent, your taking the thousand years thing out of context and applying it wherever its convenient, I believe if you re read it (since God don't lie) you will see that God was saying you will surely die, he didn't say you will surely die today!

Hi Richard, it's me again.

Actually God said "you S H A L L surely die" referring to the entire creation that's why we see animals, trees and everything lives then die. You see, the whole concept of death is God's plan from the start. It's not because of Adam and Eve's sin that death came to the creation; Adam and Eve activated the death process by obedience to the spirit of evil which the serpent was possessed with. God created EVIL ( Isaiah 45:7) and did so for a purpose. God is the creator of all things seen and unseen. God also said in ( Isaiah 55:11) the words of His mouth will not go forth void, so when the words EVIL and DEATH left God's mouth they now become apart of His creation. When and where did God created EVIL? This happened in the garden of Eden where God said "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." This word evil left His mouth and will do it's purposed which is sin then sin will do it's purpose which is death.

I pray you understand God's purpose of balance. By this I mean, everything has it's equal and it's opposite like left with right, back with front, top with bottom, hot and cold etc.

God saw what He created was good but He never declared it so, therefore all things created was for a temporary purpose of knowledge and the next phase of God's creation will be the permanent and the everlasting perfection. The word evil will never be mentioned again, by then it's purpose would have been complete and will never ever be in existence. PRAISE THE LORD JESUS.

Not exactly sure where your coming from, Genesis 1:31 God says everything was "VERY GOOD"

No, the Bible states that God saw what He created was good. If God had declared it good, then His own declaration would make it so and evil will have no place here. Isaiah 55:11 gives us this understanding. God bless you.

Vincent, not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it but I believe your reading scripture according to the book of Vincent, how you think it should be, I would encourage you to pray before you read for a totally open mind to what God is saying, you don't seem to get the true concept of what happened friend.

I must not be reading you right, I thought you was talking about immediately after the creation.

No, BEFORE the creation. God knows all things, start to finish. He is the starter and He is the finisher. Being the knower of all things seen and unseen, then he must know all those who will be with Him forever because He is the one who makes it so. God bless you

I second this thought. People often assume to die means immediately, but if you remember that Adam & Eve were immortal and designed to live forever in paradise, until they disobeyed. Then a radical change happened which was they became immortal and when that happens your body slowly dies a little each day as you age until death. God never said if you eat a fruit you'll die within 5 seconds, 5 days, or 500 years.

Are you saying here that God created the world and out of no where evil entered the creation? That would mean God don't know all things. God put evil and death here, therefore, this world was not intended to be everlasting paradise.

God gave Adam the power to receive the knowledge of good with evil. Adam thought he will be wise which he did receive wisdom, but wisdom is of the knowledge of evil and death. Remember, everything is equal and opposite physically and spiritually. So to be wise, one has to know good and evil. This will take time for you to get. God bless you

Dear Vince, I just noticed the insult: "So to be wise, one has to know good and evil. This will take time for you to get."

Matthew 12:36-37

"Are you saying here that God created the world and out of no where evil entered the creation? That would mean God don't know all things. God put evil and death here, therefore, this world was not intended to be everlasting paradise."

God is so powerful that He can choose to be in the moment and can change His mind too. Jonah 3:10, Genesis 18:26, Exodus 32:14, Genesis 6:6. So, one could take the other side of the argument and ask, do you not think God is powerful enough to change his mind or live temporarily in the moment and react as things unfold?

I don't think anyone can say with 100% certainty as to God's intent, his thoughts or feelings ( 1 Corinthians 2:11), but Genesis 6:6 does say God grieved and had some regret for making man in the garden. He also had regret for how evil mankind had become prior to the flood. He loved us enough to give us freedom of choice, but when so many people choose evil I'm sure God doesn't take kindly to that. It should be equally upsetting to those committing the evil, but if not now, they absolutely will regret it later.

Hello Adam, where is Eve? Jokey joke.

Insult on whom? I'm showing the fact that God knows all things and that He created evil and death for a purpose of a temporary earth. I know it's hard to believe, it was for me too, but it's plain to see in the word of God.

If you can accept ISAIAH 45:7 about evil, then understanding will come easily. Remember the slaughtered lamb before the foundation of the world? There's no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. The lamb's blood was shed only for sin before sin was. Don't you see the plan God is showing us?

Why God did not allow Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of life after they sinned instead He put them out of the garden? The plan of salvation is not by eating or works but by the shedding of a sin free blood, God's own blood. God bless you

Agreed, God bless!

Hello Adam!

In response to your comment about Adam and Eve's disobedience in the garden of Eden. The garden represents a classroom. The tree represents the blackboard. The teacher represents the serpent. The students are represented by Adam and Eve. The lesson is the introduction to the opposite of good. Notice the tree is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. All this was created and set up by God to impart the knowledge of good and evil to the entire creation but unfortunately for us this knowledge also includes the knowledge of death. To go even further, the Bible serves two purposes 1- To let us know there is a creator and 2- To let us know God's next and final creation to come. God bless you.

Adam & Eve were immortal and designed to live forever in paradise, until they disobeyed. Then a radical change happened which was they became mortal. And all his offspring were no longer in the image of God. Genesis 5:3 "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:" Seth was made in Adam's image, not God's image. "For as the body without the spirit is dead,..." James 2:26. "For if through the offence of one many be dead,... Romans 5:15. So before we are saved we are dead and Jesus said, John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." Meaning you are dead. We know that a man has a body that is not dead, and our soul is not dead for when we get saved our soul is cut loose from our body. So that leaves the spirit to be the one that died when Adam sinned. And that is why Jesus said in John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Notice that when he said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit"; the capitol "S" Spirit. An notice the "born again" in verse 7. If you have to be born again, that would mean that you at some time in the past, were born of the spirit. Meaning Adam died spiritually when sinned. No guessing, it's all bible.

Charles

If Adam and Eve were created immortal and to live forever in paradise. Are there any scriptures you can find in the Bible that say that or is it all speculation or what you have been taught and taken for truth and not verified by scripture?

Most would also say Adam and Eve were the male and female on day six. How do we explain the commandments God gave to them on day six. On day six God said unto them be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The only commandment God gave to Adam was to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. How could Adam and Eve have dominion over all living things that were on earth if they were in paradise?

My comment is given in love and I hope you can find scriptures to back up what you have been taught. We are told to study also to test the spirits and not accept what we have been taught by man unless we find the scriptures that confirm what we have been taught is the truth. It is like something as simple as the animals that went into the Ark. If you ask many they will say two of each animal male and female two by two. Read Gen. 7:2-3 you will find clean beast by sevens male and female= 14 unclean by two male and female=4 birds by seven male and female=14.

Bible discussion should be for stimulating us to study for the search of the truth, not an argument. Ron

Thanks Ron, I see you got it. Let me expand on the command to have dominion. Notice God said in Gen. 1:28, "have dominion over first the fish of the sea, then over the fowl of the air and then over the living things that moveth upon the earth." All these animals mentioned here are of 3 different environments.

Dominion here is God commanding mankind to go to the almost parts of these places and receive knowledge of His creation. This is why we have people who have great interest in animal studies. Astronauts who go to the sky and beyond to see what's out there and marine biologist to render to the world information on underwater life. This is man's dominion command. This means, every part of the earth, go there. Every part of the sea, go there and every part of open space, go there.

So dominion is not necessarily to have control over all these 3 environments; but it's definitely to look and see how great God is. He put all this together by His great knowledge and understanding. Remember when God put Adam and Eve out of the garden? This means go and see the world. Remember what God said to Abraham? God told him to go somewhere. Most famously, remember the Tower of Babel? God confused there language so as to get them to disperse and spread over the earth. Isn't God great? God bless you

Thanks, Vince I love the 3 different environments. I hope I don't lose you or get too deep for I love the Bible and the truth not scrambled up with traditions of mans interpretations. They were told to subdue it. Subdue the earth. A dictionary definition is "to overcome, quieten, to bring under control" In Hebrew, this is kabash. You cannot get around it; it does mean "subdue" or "enslave", control by ruling it, not it rule you. God placed man as conqueror and ruler of the earth, we were to hold a position of command over it; we were placed in a superior role and were to exercise control over the earth and its vegetation and wildlife.

Mankind was set up as the ruler of this world. All else was subjugated to him. So, if we were given the temperament and aptitudes to subdue and have dominion over, maybe that is what's called our flesh. All the wants and desires of the world, the intuition to invent ways to overcome, started good but corrupted by Satan. Is this why Satan rebelled? The man was placed over all the creation and not him.

Actually satan rebelled before the world was created. I agree with explanation on subdue, only keep in mind, subduing each other as slaves is not God's intent. God bless you

Adam was created in the image of God and Seth was born in the image of Adam which is the same image of God. So we are all of the image of God and not the image of only Adam. This present creation was not God's ultimate plan of paradise otherwise He would not have created Evil and Death. This creation was to give mankind the balanced knowledge of good and evil which ends in the knowledge of death. Death is the final knowledge for everyone even those that shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye. God bless you.

Adam lost the image when he sinned, that why he needed to be born again John chapter 3.

Image and spirit are not the same. Image can be seen. Image of God means God created us to look like Him. Wasn't Jesus a man in the flesh but will the spirit of God? God bless you

Yes, Spirit, and Image are not the same. The Image is the Body, Soul, and the Spirit. The Spirit is the part that died when Adam sinned, that is why the Lord Jesus Christ said, John 3:7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." And to be born again in this age, you must go to the Apostle to the Gentiles; which is Paul. Paul's Gospel says: 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" Paul says, 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."

Correction: with the spirit of God

If Adam didn't die spiritually, why did the Lord Jesus Christ say in John Chapter three that you must be born again of the Spirit of God?

Also brother Charles (I hope you don't mind me calling you brother and really, we are), the 8 souls that were in the Ark of Noah are the 7 spirits of God plus the spirit of the person. The Ark represents a coffin. The lifting of the ark by the flood waters symbolizes the dead in Christ rising to meet Him in the sky. Thanks for responding.

Jesus said "ye must be born again " is referring to the comforter or the Holy Spirit which one has to have to enter the kingdom of God. Not the will of man but by the will of God. Can you recall the raven Noah first sent out after the flood? Well, that raven represents the spirit of man which did not leave the Ark; instead it went back and forth. Then Noah sent out a dove which represents the Holy Spirit which is the born again spirit of God. So both spirits are alive when a saved person enters the grave. If a person enters the grave without the Holy Spirit, then on judgement day, that soul will be eternally destroyed.

Vincent, when Jesus died and was resurrected, he was officially the 1st "born again" Christian, proving to us the way of salvation. Jesus Christ himself was the example of being born again. This is what it truly means to be "born again" (after death), to completely put sin away as a member of God's family. Jesus' definition of "born again" implies everlasting life after your appointed death ( Hebrews 9:7), and completely void of sin. So called born again Christians are common place when they have nowhere else to turn.