Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Brian on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    The Christian Sabbath is Saturday.

    Not the first day of the week.

    4th Commandment.
  • SkipVought - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Brian,

    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it." Rom 14:5-6

    "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Col 2:16-17

    The Sabbath that the Jewish people observed was specifically to give the people AND their work animals a day of rest--no work. There was no instruction to worship on the Sabbath.

    But when Gentiles began to believe in Jesus, the Apostles held a council in Jerusalem to determine if Jewish laws were to be imposed on them. Here's how the Apostles responded...

    "It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." Act 15:25-29

    No mention of a Sabbath.

    If you choose to worship on Saturday, I have no problem with that. Most Christians gather on Sunday, the first day of the week in honor and thankful memory of the day the The Lord Jesus Christ arose from the grave. And I'm fine with that or any other day a group of believers choose to assemble.

    We should not forsake the assembling together, whatever day it be.
  • SkipVought - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Brian,

    Where is your Scripture to support that after Pentecost, Christians were to worship on the last day of the week rather than the first day of the week?
  • Brian - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Where in scripture does it say the Sabbath day was changed to Sunday the 1st day of the week.

    CONSTANTINE was a sun worshipper and the Catholic Church made it permanent.

    NOT SCRIPTURAL.
  • Adam - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Sounds like gathering on the first day ( Acts 20:7) of the week to worship is being confused with observing the Sabbath. These are 2 different things. I think everyday should be a day to worship and honor God. Following Christ as a Christian is a 24/7 lifestyle, not a temporary event once a week. I don't think the specific day people gather is so important. The verse in Acts I don't view as a command, but an example. God bless.
  • Jerry R - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Replying to Adam: I agree with most of your statements, but I must agree with Brian that the sabbath day is to be remembered and kept holy; therefore the specific gathering day for corporate worship is extremely important. Otherwise Lord God would not have made it one of the all encompassing 10 commandments. I also agree with Bryan that the sabbath day was changed by Constantine, while trying to unite pagans and Christians. May God bless and keep you and yours.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Jerry.

    Jesus was dead on the Sabbath day. It was on the first day of the week that He came forth from the dead. And when we turn to the resurrection account in the Gospel of Matthew (which was written primarily to Israel), it opens with:

    In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week. Matthew 28:1.

    "At the end of the sabbath" - not just the end of a day, but the end of keeping the Sabbath day - "it began to dawn toward the first day of the week." That is tremendous!

    Pentecost - The Church Was Born

    Then we turn to the Book of Acts, and there we read that the church was born - and not on a Sabbath day, but on the Lord's Day, the first day of the week. Notice Acts 2:1:

    And when the day of Pentecost was fully come.

    What does the Bible mean by "fully come"? Does it mean when the sun had come up? No.

    It means "When the day of Pentecost [and all of which it spoke] was come." That which Pentecost had symbolized in the Old Testament is now come. It was the first day of the week, the only first day of the week Israel ever observed - for they observed seven Sabbath days after Passover, and then the day following the seventh Sabbath was Pentecost:

    On that day the Holy Spirit came!

    On that day the church was born!

    Proof they worshiped on a Sunday.

    Acts 20:7. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    1 Corinthians 16:2. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

    I agree with Adam, we worship all the days of our lives.

    God bless.
  • Jerry R - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    S Spencer, There is no proof in Acts that the disciples changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The meeting with the disciples in chapter 20 was a one time event. The church was not born there: but the church of God was purchased by the blood of Christ; verse 28. I have not been able to find anywhere in the KJV scripture, the phrase "The Lord's Day" being used to describe the Sabbath Day.
  • Brother Dan - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother Jerry, I agree that the disciples DID NOT change the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday.

    This kind of false doctrine is preached far and wide today.....by "make you feel good pastors" meaning pastors that are more interested in expanding their church membership=more money for them.

    The path to heaven is narrow and the gate small....wide is the highway to hell.....don't believe me...read the scripture.

    Matthew 7:13

    "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

    Matthew 7:14

    "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

    Don't depend on men...they will lead you astray...read and understand the Bible scripture for yourself. Pray that the Holy Sprit will help you understand!

    Happy Sabbath Day!

    God Bless
  • Jerry R - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    S Spencer...Are we not sojourners and grafted in with the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ? Maybe some of us are direct descendants. The 10 commandments are eternal creation covenants made by our Creator, which preceded the complete formation of the Nation of Israel, and nothing in the New Testament abolishes any of the 10 commandments. Many of the ordinances, laws, and punishments yes: but NONE of the all encompassing 10 commandments. I have been through many of the same arguments that you give from Paul's writings. If I did agree with you that his writings abolished ANY of the 10 commandments; then I would be listening to man and not God Almighty. So in closing, I will ask you not to judge me in Remembering the weekly sabbath day (the 7th day), and to keep it Holy as instructed by the LORD my God. Additionally, The Messiah Yeshua Hamashiach instructs me in John 14; 15 that if I love Him, I will keep His commandments: and John 15; 10: showing that He always keeps His Father's commandments. Lastly I will no longer recognize pagan holidays such as ishtar/easter, or Nimrod's "christmas". I will do my best to learn and celebrate Biblical Holy Days such as Passover and the Feasts. Shabbat Shalom.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Jerry. part 3.

    Romans 3:19-28. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

    Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

    Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-11. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

    How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

    For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

    For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

    For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

    God bless you.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Jerry. part 2.

    If you are thinking we are grafted in by keeping the Law you are mistaking, you are missing the point in Romans 11.

    Romans 11:20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

    You are expecting to be grafted into a branch that has been broken off!

    I'm not sure if you are implying salvation comes by keeping the 10 commandments, if you are the bible don't state that.

    Galatians 3:16-26. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

    Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    We're not grafted into Israel. Israel is a branch. We're grafted into the vine to bare fruit.

    I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Jerry

    i don't see anywhere in this tread where someone said the the sabbath was moved to Sunday, in fact we Adam said made it clear "Sounds like gathering on the first day ( Acts 20:7) of the week to worship is being confused with observing the Sabbath." in other words we're not saying that.

    We're saying they gathered on the 1st day of the week.

    following Christ is a 24/7 lifestyle that the Holyspirit moves you to do, not the 10 commandments, so yes Saturday is a Holy Day and so is the other 6 days. I also don't see where I or anyone said the 10 commandments was abolished, but I gave you Colossians 2:14-17 (KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    What Paul is saying here is what he said in Romans 7:9.For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And Romans 8:3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    And where did we judge you?

    Romans 14:4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

    One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

    GOD BLESS
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    Hi Jerry.

    Exodus 31:13-14, 16-17 (KJV) Speak thou also unto the. "CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, "saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

    Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among " HIS PEOPLE".

    Wherefore the ""CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.""shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout ""THEIR""generations, for a perpetual covenant.

    ""IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL""

    for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    Do you noticed he never gave that commandment to the rest of the world?

    Now look what Paul says concerning those same sabbaths:

    Colossians 2:14-17 (KJV) BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT, OR IN DRINK, OR IN RESPECT OF AN HOLYDAY, OR OF THE NEW MOON, OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS:

    ""WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME;"" but the body is of Christ.
  • Brother Dan - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 3 years ago
    I agree the Sabbath for Christians is Saturday, and always has been.....from the creation of this world.

    Man cannot add or subtract any of the 10 commandments.

    This world is evil, and there are many false religions teaching others to ignore or minimize the commandments of God.

    For those out there that believe they can ignore the 4th commandment, what don't you believe in the verse's below that came straight from Christ's mouth:

    John 14:21

    "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

    Matthew 5:17

    "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

    Matthew 5:18

    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

    Most Christians are very aware of the above stated verses....but they minimize them, because reverend so and so said this, or that, and I hear all kinds of excuse's that we can ignore this commandment or that commandment, including because Apostle Paul said this or that. Man can read the bible and twist words to mean anything that might suit their agenda.

    We need to believe what Jesus said in the bible, he is speaking the words of "His Father".

    John 12:49

    "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."

    John 12:50

    "And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

    Living life today, while respecting God's commandment's my be an inconvenience for all of us - at times.....but we need to strive to follow Christ, just as Christ followed his Fathers Laws. Are we any better than Christ?

    Happy Sabbath Day!

    God Bless



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