My Witness brother is saying there will be no prophets after Jesus's death, I have a hard time time with that message. Can you help me where in King James there is proof of prophets. I believe there are modern day prophets. Why the difference in beliefs.
I spent a couple of days reading scripture about prophets and prophecy and I may have come to a different conclusion and answer about modern-day prophets. You say you believe there are modern-day prophets. At first, I said I didn't believe that. But now, I think you may be correct. However, a prophet today has a different function than the prophets of old.
The word prophecy comes from the word prophet that just means to be a spokesperson for God, not on your own, but rather to speak God's word. The prophets of old, they would foretell. They would tell about the future.
But the prophets of the New Testament, especially around the time of John in the mid 90's A.D., it wasn't foretelling, it was forth-telling, telling forth the word of God, taking the book, and ministering the word of God.
So a prophet today would have a different function than the prophets of old. The book of Revelation is God's final prophecy given to man. It is His final message to the church before He comes back. There are no new prophecies after the book of Revelation. So a prophet today would be a person who takes God's written word and speaks forth the things that are already written.
So by a modern-day prophet, if you are referring to one who speaks forth the written word of God, I would agree to that. But if we are saying that a prophet today is someone who receives a new revelation or new prophecy from God, I would not be able to agree with that.
I now have a different view about "modern-day prophets" and I want to thank you for leading me to do a little more research on the subject.
Hi Jesse. It's good to catch up with you after such a long spell. I have heard about this re-defining of a modern day prophet: no more of a foreteller but a 'forthteller' of God's Word. I must confess, that I've always had difficulty in accepting this definition as it seems to be one of convenience so that Ephesians 4:11-13 might be 'better understood'.
Paul gives us a list (maybe not intended to be comprehensive) of those specially equipped by the Spirit "for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ". And I note that the position of the Elders & Deacons (1 Timothy chap 3) are excluded from the list, indicating that their appointments were based on other criteria & not as a Spirit-enabled (but Spirit-led) provision.
Looking at Paul's list, the apostolic era was well & truly over (by the 1st Century) & could it also be the same with the prophetical era as God's Word was finally completed at the revelation given to John? So, the work of the Evangelist still goes on (& not referring to a believer's personal witness to someone), as also does the work of a Pastor & Teacher. I realize that there have been many 'prophets' over the centuries & even in recent times, but I always question their materiel & how accurate their prophecies have been. I'm inclined to think rather negatively about such claims, especially from their recent dismal showing.
So I tend to believe that the work of the Elder or Teacher of the Word is sufficient to fulfil the role of 'forthteller', in wisdom sharing what the Spirit desires to be taught to God's children.
I do concur that both eras have ended, apostolic and prophetic. We both know that there are groups that claim there are both prophets and apostles in existence today.
I myself know that can't be so. If I recall, without looking it up in the scripture, so please don't quote me on this, but the qualifications of an apostle was that he had to be there from the time of John's baptism, had to be chosen by Christ, and also had to be an eyewitness to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. No one alive today can meet those qualifications.
And yes, we have the complete word of God in written form. The book of Revelation was the final prophecy given to us.
Personally, when I hear of a "prophet" today, and there are many who claim to be, I am not even interested in what they have to say. I am very cautious.
I know that God does not give new revelation or new prophecy. If He did, it would have to be added to the Bible, and we are given a stern warning about adding.
If God gives a so called "prophet" today a new revelation, it must be added to the scripture because if God gave it, it's His word.
But those who profess to be prophets, they won't go that far as to add it. Why not? Well, I think we know the answer to that!
Thanks Chris, always a pleasure to hear from you. The Lord is good!
Hi again Jesse. I am glad that Linda helped in this. It was was I also meant the other day when we wrote back and forth. God bless His ways in these simple vessels. My just posted question, I wish now I had included as a question, that when time ends after the seventh Angel sounds his trumpet, so does the ability to change anything more. What do you think?
I'm not sure what a witness brother is but I would have to agree with him. I believe John the Baptist was the final prophet. John was the greatest of all the prophets.
Matthew Chapter 11 seems to indicate that the Old Testament administration or dispensation of the prophets is going to end with John. And a new administration, or a new dispensation, is going to start with Christ.
Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah who was to come. That is what Jesus said. He is making reference to Malachi 4:5 that tells us that Elijah will come before Messiah comes, and Elijah will be the forerunner to the Messiah.
But we have a problem!
In John Chapter 1, when the leadership sent people out to ask John, "Are you the Messiah?" John said, "No!" "Are you the prophet?" which by the way is also a term for the Messiah. Again John said no. "Are you Elijah?" He said no again.
Hmm, he is John the Baptist, but he is not Elijah? But Jesus said this is Elijah who was to come. So either John didn't know who he was, or he was confused, or something.
Even in Matthew Chapter 17 in the Transfiguration, when they came down off the hill, the disciples understood what Jesus said about John the Baptist, that John the Baptist was Elijah. But John said he isn't.
The answer is found in Luke 1:17 when the angel came to announce to Zacharias that his wife Elizabeth was going to give birth, which would be John the Baptist. And he said that he will come in the "spirit and power" of Elijah. He is going to have the same ministry as Elijah. He's not going to be Elijah personally, but he has the same ministry as Elijah.
You say you believe in modern-day prophets. If may ask you, what would you say their purpose would be?
Hi Jesse, I support most all that have written but I am left with a question. In preaching or even writing, as one brings forth inspiration from God, is that not a form of prophecy making the speaker/writer at least a very minor prophet?
I'm not sure the scripture supports there even being Minor Prophets after John the Baptist. I do believe that a person can still prophesy today, but that does not make that person a prophet in the true sense. To prophesy simply means to speak forth the word of God. Since we have the complete revelation of God given to us in His written word, there can be no new prophecy. We have to keep in mind the warning given towards the end of Revelation about adding to his word.
The problem with people claiming to be prophets today is that they will give you a message saying it's from God. What do we do with that? I mean if it's from God, we got to believe it, right? If it's from God, it's got to be true?
My brother, we have to be very careful and not fall into a trap. If a person who claims to be a prophet gives us a message and says it is from God, then we need to add it to the bible because it's His word. Again, we are warned not to do that.
I don't agree that there are prophets today, but I do agree that a person can prophesy, speak forth the already written word of God. The bible tells us to test all things to see if they are of God. How do we do that? Well, if a so-called prophet gives us a "Thus saith the Lord" prophecy, and it's nowhere to be found in the written word, that person is a false prophet, and Jesus said there will be many of them. I don't know of any place where our Lord said that there would be any true prophets that would come, only false prophets.
Dear Brother Jesse, Thank you. I agree that there is nothing more needed for Man's salvation and keeping, than God's Word. Yet this Word needs to find it's way to the lost and I believe inspiration from God leads in this way how and when and what to say or write. Likely much Bible prophecy is already fulfilled possibly, way more than we realize. I have had visions and dreams that have helped to keep me to not be discouraged, to stay in the race to the finish.
You nailed it! People need to hear the message. There are two words side by side you wrote that really stood out; "God leads!" He leads. If we are doing it out of ambition or a sense of obligation, the Lord's not going to bless that. If He's not in it, then our labor is done in vain, even if we're "doing it for the Lord."
I agree that much Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled. 69 weeks have passed. We have not come to the 70th week yet. I believe the next event to happen is the rapture of the church. And from the rapture of the church until the second coming of Christ, it is called the 70th week of Daniel. We have had 69 weeks, 483 years. And those 483 years ended at the crucifixion of Christ.
But now, there is this time period which is called the time of the Gentiles, between the death of Christ, and His coming for His church. We don't know the time frame, but as soon as the church is removed, there will be seven years, one week in Jewish literature. There will be seven years of tribulation.
We're running this race together. Never be discouraged. We'll all reach the finish line because Christ sees to it. We just have to be careful how we run it because we will not all be rewarded the same.
Just as in Luke 9:51 where Jesus had His eyes fixed on Jerusalem. When it was time for Him to go and die, He was fixed to go to Jerusalem. You couldn't get Him off track. That's how we are to run our race, having our eyes fixed on Christ.
Hebrews 12:2, "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
He's the author and finisher. He saves us, sets the race before us, and sees it through to its completion. Sometimes the race is hard to run. We get sidetracked with everyday life and lose our focus. But we will finish the race no doubt. Christ in us will bring us to the finish line.
Hello Jesse, Thank you for my needed encouragement. I am weak no doubt. What are your thoughts of what happens when the Church is lifted up, she is the bride, will there be an immediate marriage and consummation?
Encouraging/building each other up is what it's about. You share things that are uplifting, and you do it with so few words. In fact, your short reply touched me in a very special way. It brought a tear to my eye where you said "I am weak no doubt," referring to yourself.
I think that brought some conviction to my own heart in that I don't confess that enough. I do thank you for that. Although that may not have been your intent, I believe the Lord works that way. I believe that's how he uses us.
Did you know that is when we are at the strongest point in our relationship with Christ; is when we confess our weakness before Him? He has a way of bringing us to that point!
My thoughts on what happens when the Church is lifted up are that we'll be part of the wedding feast taking place in heaven while the world is in chaos. I shared on here about a year ago the actual 7 steps of a Jewish wedding. These 7 steps parallel the events spoken of in Matthew Chapters 24 and 25.
Here are the steps of a Jewish wedding:
1) The groom barters with the father of the bride.
2) If the bride approves of the wedding, she drinks from the Covenant Cup.
3) The groom goes back to his father's house to build their living quarters.
4) The Father of the Groom decides when the living quarters are done. It can take a minimum of one year and a maximum of two years. The Groom can go get his bride when his father decides it is time.
5) When the marriage announcement is made, the people who have been invited to the wedding feast take positions along the parade route. They join the parade as it passes by.
6) When the groom reaches the bride's house, he stands at a distance and blows the shofar for the bride to come out to meet him. The wedding takes place at this time.
7) The parade goes back to the groom's house and the wedding feast begins. All of the guests in the parade gather in the Fellowship Hall and the door is shut.
I can expound, but I'm sure you'll make the connection!
Acts 21:10, 1 Corinthians 14:37, Titus 1:2, Ephesians 4:11, and 1 Corinthians 12:29. May you be blessed in Christ Jesus our Almighty Lord and Father and Saviour.
I spent a couple of days reading scripture about prophets and prophecy and I may have come to a different conclusion and answer about modern-day prophets. You say you believe there are modern-day prophets. At first, I said I didn't believe that. But now, I think you may be correct. However, a prophet today has a different function than the prophets of old.
The word prophecy comes from the word prophet that just means to be a spokesperson for God, not on your own, but rather to speak God's word. The prophets of old, they would foretell. They would tell about the future.
But the prophets of the New Testament, especially around the time of John in the mid 90's A.D., it wasn't foretelling, it was forth-telling, telling forth the word of God, taking the book, and ministering the word of God.
So a prophet today would have a different function than the prophets of old. The book of Revelation is God's final prophecy given to man. It is His final message to the church before He comes back. There are no new prophecies after the book of Revelation. So a prophet today would be a person who takes God's written word and speaks forth the things that are already written.
So by a modern-day prophet, if you are referring to one who speaks forth the written word of God, I would agree to that. But if we are saying that a prophet today is someone who receives a new revelation or new prophecy from God, I would not be able to agree with that.
I now have a different view about "modern-day prophets" and I want to thank you for leading me to do a little more research on the subject.
God Bless!
Paul gives us a list (maybe not intended to be comprehensive) of those specially equipped by the Spirit "for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ". And I note that the position of the Elders & Deacons (1 Timothy chap 3) are excluded from the list, indicating that their appointments were based on other criteria & not as a Spirit-enabled (but Spirit-led) provision.
Looking at Paul's list, the apostolic era was well & truly over (by the 1st Century) & could it also be the same with the prophetical era as God's Word was finally completed at the revelation given to John? So, the work of the Evangelist still goes on (& not referring to a believer's personal witness to someone), as also does the work of a Pastor & Teacher. I realize that there have been many 'prophets' over the centuries & even in recent times, but I always question their materiel & how accurate their prophecies have been. I'm inclined to think rather negatively about such claims, especially from their recent dismal showing.
So I tend to believe that the work of the Elder or Teacher of the Word is sufficient to fulfil the role of 'forthteller', in wisdom sharing what the Spirit desires to be taught to God's children.
I do concur that both eras have ended, apostolic and prophetic. We both know that there are groups that claim there are both prophets and apostles in existence today.
I myself know that can't be so. If I recall, without looking it up in the scripture, so please don't quote me on this, but the qualifications of an apostle was that he had to be there from the time of John's baptism, had to be chosen by Christ, and also had to be an eyewitness to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. No one alive today can meet those qualifications.
And yes, we have the complete word of God in written form. The book of Revelation was the final prophecy given to us.
Personally, when I hear of a "prophet" today, and there are many who claim to be, I am not even interested in what they have to say. I am very cautious.
I know that God does not give new revelation or new prophecy. If He did, it would have to be added to the Bible, and we are given a stern warning about adding.
If God gives a so called "prophet" today a new revelation, it must be added to the scripture because if God gave it, it's His word.
But those who profess to be prophets, they won't go that far as to add it. Why not? Well, I think we know the answer to that!
Thanks Chris, always a pleasure to hear from you. The Lord is good!
Carleton
I am not sure I understand what you are asking me?
I'm not sure what a witness brother is but I would have to agree with him. I believe John the Baptist was the final prophet. John was the greatest of all the prophets.
Matthew Chapter 11 seems to indicate that the Old Testament administration or dispensation of the prophets is going to end with John. And a new administration, or a new dispensation, is going to start with Christ.
Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah who was to come. That is what Jesus said. He is making reference to Malachi 4:5 that tells us that Elijah will come before Messiah comes, and Elijah will be the forerunner to the Messiah.
But we have a problem!
In John Chapter 1, when the leadership sent people out to ask John, "Are you the Messiah?" John said, "No!" "Are you the prophet?" which by the way is also a term for the Messiah. Again John said no. "Are you Elijah?" He said no again.
Hmm, he is John the Baptist, but he is not Elijah? But Jesus said this is Elijah who was to come. So either John didn't know who he was, or he was confused, or something.
Even in Matthew Chapter 17 in the Transfiguration, when they came down off the hill, the disciples understood what Jesus said about John the Baptist, that John the Baptist was Elijah. But John said he isn't.
The answer is found in Luke 1:17 when the angel came to announce to Zacharias that his wife Elizabeth was going to give birth, which would be John the Baptist. And he said that he will come in the "spirit and power" of Elijah. He is going to have the same ministry as Elijah. He's not going to be Elijah personally, but he has the same ministry as Elijah.
You say you believe in modern-day prophets. If may ask you, what would you say their purpose would be?
In love, Carleton
I'm not sure the scripture supports there even being Minor Prophets after John the Baptist. I do believe that a person can still prophesy today, but that does not make that person a prophet in the true sense. To prophesy simply means to speak forth the word of God. Since we have the complete revelation of God given to us in His written word, there can be no new prophecy. We have to keep in mind the warning given towards the end of Revelation about adding to his word.
The problem with people claiming to be prophets today is that they will give you a message saying it's from God. What do we do with that? I mean if it's from God, we got to believe it, right? If it's from God, it's got to be true?
My brother, we have to be very careful and not fall into a trap. If a person who claims to be a prophet gives us a message and says it is from God, then we need to add it to the bible because it's His word. Again, we are warned not to do that.
I don't agree that there are prophets today, but I do agree that a person can prophesy, speak forth the already written word of God. The bible tells us to test all things to see if they are of God. How do we do that? Well, if a so-called prophet gives us a "Thus saith the Lord" prophecy, and it's nowhere to be found in the written word, that person is a false prophet, and Jesus said there will be many of them. I don't know of any place where our Lord said that there would be any true prophets that would come, only false prophets.
So I would have to say prophets-no, prophesy-yes!
God Bless your writing.
Carleton
You nailed it! People need to hear the message. There are two words side by side you wrote that really stood out; "God leads!" He leads. If we are doing it out of ambition or a sense of obligation, the Lord's not going to bless that. If He's not in it, then our labor is done in vain, even if we're "doing it for the Lord."
I agree that much Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled. 69 weeks have passed. We have not come to the 70th week yet. I believe the next event to happen is the rapture of the church. And from the rapture of the church until the second coming of Christ, it is called the 70th week of Daniel. We have had 69 weeks, 483 years. And those 483 years ended at the crucifixion of Christ.
But now, there is this time period which is called the time of the Gentiles, between the death of Christ, and His coming for His church. We don't know the time frame, but as soon as the church is removed, there will be seven years, one week in Jewish literature. There will be seven years of tribulation.
We're running this race together. Never be discouraged. We'll all reach the finish line because Christ sees to it. We just have to be careful how we run it because we will not all be rewarded the same.
Just as in Luke 9:51 where Jesus had His eyes fixed on Jerusalem. When it was time for Him to go and die, He was fixed to go to Jerusalem. You couldn't get Him off track. That's how we are to run our race, having our eyes fixed on Christ.
Hebrews 12:2, "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
He's the author and finisher. He saves us, sets the race before us, and sees it through to its completion. Sometimes the race is hard to run. We get sidetracked with everyday life and lose our focus. But we will finish the race no doubt. Christ in us will bring us to the finish line.
Have a blessed day in Christ!
Got me thinking again!
Carleton
Encouraging/building each other up is what it's about. You share things that are uplifting, and you do it with so few words. In fact, your short reply touched me in a very special way. It brought a tear to my eye where you said "I am weak no doubt," referring to yourself.
I think that brought some conviction to my own heart in that I don't confess that enough. I do thank you for that. Although that may not have been your intent, I believe the Lord works that way. I believe that's how he uses us.
Did you know that is when we are at the strongest point in our relationship with Christ; is when we confess our weakness before Him? He has a way of bringing us to that point!
My thoughts on what happens when the Church is lifted up are that we'll be part of the wedding feast taking place in heaven while the world is in chaos. I shared on here about a year ago the actual 7 steps of a Jewish wedding. These 7 steps parallel the events spoken of in Matthew Chapters 24 and 25.
Here are the steps of a Jewish wedding:
1) The groom barters with the father of the bride.
2) If the bride approves of the wedding, she drinks from the Covenant Cup.
3) The groom goes back to his father's house to build their living quarters.
4) The Father of the Groom decides when the living quarters are done. It can take a minimum of one year and a maximum of two years. The Groom can go get his bride when his father decides it is time.
5) When the marriage announcement is made, the people who have been invited to the wedding feast take positions along the parade route. They join the parade as it passes by.
6) When the groom reaches the bride's house, he stands at a distance and blows the shofar for the bride to come out to meet him. The wedding takes place at this time.
7) The parade goes back to the groom's house and the wedding feast begins. All of the guests in the parade gather in the Fellowship Hall and the door is shut.
I can expound, but I'm sure you'll make the connection!
Carleton
We do live in the same state, you being in the north end, me in the south, but I promise you that was not me!!!
God bless your time and instructions.
Carleton
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