Bible Discussion Thread

Hi! My family is having a bible study online and the question was asked about the Rapture. I believe that we will be raptured at the beginning of the 7 years of tribulation but my daughter in law believes that it will be mid-tribulation. Does anyone have any scripture that would clear up this time line or does anyone have any beliefs of their own about the subject? Thanks!

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Bride.

You will find an abundance of scriptures to study. I found in the Gospels, the story Jesus tells of the 10 virgins to be helpful with timing.

Believers are the Bride of Christ. We are to be saved, washed in the blood of Jesus: without spot or wrinkle in our wedding apparel. We're to have our lamps FULL with the oil of joy, the Holy Spirit provides.

In Jewish weddings, when all preparations had been readied, THE GROOMS FATHER stood up and told the BRIDEGROOM to go get his Bride.

In the prophesy calendar of times: the Groom and Bride attend the Wedding Feast. Everyone INVITED by the Groom (born again believers only) is allowed into the Banquet.

So this creates a timing problem for some people. I'm seeing in scripture: getting ready, looking up for his arrival, wedding dress on, lamps full, knowing the signs of the Times. Matthew 24

The Bride of Christ may endure some of the beginning of Sorrows, such as natural disasters, corona virus, locusts, things like that. We've got vaccinations, bug killer and storm cellars. With wisdom we'll get through the approach of THE DAY. Keep your OIL topped off. Don't use it for French fries!

I do not believe the Lord Jesus Christ or Father God, are going to make the Bride be tempted by the Antichrist or False Prophet. Satan is the Beast. Evil will follow immediately after the Bride arrives at the Wedding Feast. Out of their reach.

Jesus descends into the clouds to catch up His Bride. Do scripture search on: "In The Clouds"

Jesus's FEET DO NOT TOUCH EARTH. He is in the clouds. Off go the Bridegroom with His Bride to the Wedding Feast.

I haven't read this in a book. This is strictly from my own studies when I was trying to figure out pre, mid, post rapture. We are told HAVE THAT OIL FULL, BE READY TODAY. Get born again NOW.

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Blessings

Mishael,

"Keep your OIL topped off. Don't use it for French fries!" You made me laugh with that one. I love your humor. You do make some great points. My belief is that our oil will always be full. Our lamps will always be kept trimmed and burning because Christ in us is the light that shines and cannot be extinguished!

Hello Liz,

I share your view on the timing of the rapture. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 tells us there will be a rapture, so we know that. If you've read through the events in the book Revelation, where God's wrath is being poured out on a non-believing world, you can see what a horrible time that will be.

It doesn't matter how many times you read through those chapters which detail God's Judgment and wrath being poured out, but you will not find any mention of the church during that time.

I lean towards a pre-tribulation Rapture because I don't believe God is going to pour out His judgment on us. If you take a look at 1 Thessalonians 5:9, ask yourself who the "us" is speaking of. We know what wrath is. But has God appointed, or set aside a time for us to go through His wrath?

Reading through Revelation, you have to wonder how anyone would survive. Some questions I would ask are: where is the church mentioned during this time? If we are going to go through the 7-year Tribulation Period, what would our function be? It wouldn't be to preach the gospel to those who are about to be judged so harshly for their unbelief.

God does not need us here during that time. He already has a plan to reach people before it's too late. The bible tells us that there will be two witnesses that will be preaching the gospel. There will be 144,000 Jews whom God will seal so that they cannot be harmed. They also will be warning people. And if that's not enough, it says that there will be an angel flying around mid-heaven for 3-1/2 years warning people.

So you see, there would be no need for us to be here during that horrible time when God pours His wrath out on this world. God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, there is no mention of the church during the time that God's wrath is being poured out. The next time I see mention of the church is when Christ comes back at His second coming, and we come back with Him!

Jesse, I truly believe the same thing about the Church not being mentioned in Revelation. Not one chapter in Revelation is given to the Rapture and I can't think that God would let his church be subjected to that kind of horrible destruction the Earth will see. In 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 9 it states "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ". Thank you for your reply. I feel comforted by it.

Lezbeth, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 22:16 I JESUS have sent my angel to testify unto you (you are the church) these things (that are revealed; by Revelation) in the CHURCHES....

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him (Christ), to show unto his servants (Christ's inheritance; Psalms 2:8) things which much SHORTLY (during your lifetime) come to pass......

1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE....

Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ......

Christ has given you HIS FAITH

Revelation 2:26 And he (you; the church) that overcomes and keeps MY WORKS (remember he gives us HIS faith, His truth, His wisdom, His understanding, His council, everything that is HIS he gives to us as our inheritance; we are his children) unto the END (when you leave this body of flesh at it's death; now he is going to give you HIS BODY; HIS incorruptible and immortal self ( 1 Timothy 6:16)......

Revelation 20:5-6 .... This is the FIRST resurrection.

(vs 6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection....

Remember he gives us what is HIS; he gives us HIS RESURRECTION. ( John 11:25)

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE, together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE...

This is the rapture of the church (you) individually not collectively.

Isaiah 27:12 ...ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE....

Mathew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now we are THE BODY OF CHRIST.....

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours (THROUGH THE WORKS OF CHRIST)

Lizbeth, May the Spirit grace you with His wisdom and His understanding.

Revelations 22:16 I JESUS SENT mine angel to testify unto you (you are the CHURCH) these things in the CHURCHES......

There might be a reason there is no mention of the rapture.

Do you think the un-called study God's word.

1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE.........

Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED (not by the law) but by THE FAITH OF CHRIST (by him), and not the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Jesus GIVES you HIS FAITH

Revelation 2:26 And he (the church) that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS (remember it's his faith, his wisdom, his truth, his understanding, EVERYTHING HE IS becomes yours through inheritance, you are his child) unto the end (when you depart this body of flesh and are given HIS BODY; (HIS) incorruptible and immortality self becomes yours....

This is the rapture of the church (you) each one individually not collectively.

Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day...... ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE...

Matthew 24:40 There shall be two in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

Revelation 20:5-6 .... this is the first resurrection.

(vs 5) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.....

Remember he gives you what is his; therefore he gives us his resurrection.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE....

Thanks Earl! I will check out the passages.

Hi Liz, I agree that it can be a little confusing as to what to believe in respect of the Rapture, but even after your study (& consideration of the comments here), you will need to come to your own understanding of this great subject, yet remaining open to the Spirit for any further light you receive through study.

Just a couple of things to keep in mind: you will read of 'tribulation' in the Bible, but you need to ascertain whether it is the 'Great Tribulation' that is being spoken of. We will all go through tribulation while living in the world ( John 16:33, Acts 14:22), but the Great Tribulation is different ( Matthew 24:21).

The Great Tribulation is a short period of time where the outpouring of God's Anger is seen & felt & this Anger is against the world of sinners where God causes a great annihilation through various means. You can compare it to the time of the Great Flood or to the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah: all these were specific to God's Anger & Judgement rather than from the usual effects of living in a sinful world & condition. And the righteous were saved from His Anger (i.e. Noah, Lot & families) while the others were destroyed.

As Christians, cleansed & saved by the blood of the Lamb, our judgement against sin has already been accomplished at the Cross. Then ask, 'do we have to once again suffer the judgement of God with other Christ-rejectors?' If so, the work at the Cross hasn't fully accomplished its purpose as we would have to be dealt with twice under God's Hand: once in Mercy (seeking forgiveness & spiritual healing/restoration) & then again without Mercy, in Judgement with the others. Or, is His Church removed before His Terrors against sinners are poured out?. And here I speak of God's Judgement only & not at the revelation of the Anti-Christ, which event is not part of that Judgement (Revelation chapters 6 to 19).

For your consideration & discussion in your online Bible study. Blessings.

Dear Chris and friends, God allowed time to continue while many sincere, innocent, defenseless, born again Christians were buried alive or had scolding oil poured over their heads and worse. It wasn't a judgement by God but a witness of the love of God and the power of believers to withstand cruelty by forgiveness by faith in Jesus Christ while speaking and living the truth without fear. This period of time not so long ago helped establish the times where enough freedom outside of forced baptism existed that the Gospel of Jesus Christ could be spread throughout the whole world. For these believers this was a great tribulation in this time.

That you know, in love, I remain teachable.

Carleton

Liz, May the Spirit grace you with His wisdom and His understanding.

Acts 14:22 .....that we through MUCH TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God.

It's been 2000 years since Christ preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ( Mark 1:14) under the theory of the seven year tribulation (still waiting) no one would have entered in the kingdom of God.

Revelation 1:9 I John, whom also am your brother, and COMPANION IN TRIBULATION, and in THE KINGDOM...

It appears that John believed he was living during the time of TRIBULATION.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Earl, thank you for giving me some Scripture to look up for my answer. I appreciate all the help I can get.

Hello Liz,

As the "Rapture" is not something I get into much as I'm sure you know there seems to be three beliefs, pre/mid/post, of when this will occur in relation of the tribulation in the end. The one verse I see that proves some of Gods children or chosen ones shall be here after the tribulation is stated in Matthew 24:29-31.

I would say just trust in the Lord, keep your faith, no matter what shall come about in this world. Amen.

God Bless.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I'm sure it will help me in my quest about the Rapture.

Hi Liz, I agree with what Richard in Christ said, trusting in the Lord and keeping our faith and Matthew 24:29-31.. The rapture theory pre, mid, or post is based on taking the last week from the 70th-week prophecy given to Daniel in Daniel 9: 27. This is the only scripture that will give you 7 years.

You may ask. How long will the tribulation period last? Is it three and one-half years? Is it seven years? To answer your question I would suggest you study Daniel's 70-week prophecy and if you find what I have found if the 70-week prophecy has been fulfilled it will answer your question. Without the last week, the 7-year rapture theory is false and the pre, mid, or post is irrelevant.

The 70th-week prophecy Daniel 24-27 is Determined on Israel and Jerusalem/The Holy City. This prophecy tells the year the Messiah/Jesus Christ will come the first time, the baptizing by John. They rejected Him. This prophecy also tells when Jesus was crucified.

The seven-year rapture theory is taken from vs 27 and it is said he in this verse is the antichrist and he makes a covenant with Israel and in the middle of this last week, he breaks the covenant, and the great tribulation starts, (short version).



One clue, it was 69 weeks when Jesus came and He was crucified 3 years later, that puts it in the middle of that last week, the 70th week. So who is he? There is also one who we know and scripture backs up, made a covenant. Study to find and be confident in your own heart.

May God bless your study, Ron

Ron, thank you for helping me in my quest for my answer. I will look up all the scriptures and check them out.

Yea Ron,

Daniel 9:27

King James Version

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I have received that this is speaking of the covenant Jesus Christ made and confirmed. After his 3.5 yr ministry, Jesus was killed and the veil was rent: causing the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and the Jews havent had a temple since, nor will they until the consummation (of the marriage of the bride) and that which is determined (the wrath of God) will be poured upon the desolate (the ungodly).

So yea, the great tribulation/time of Jacob's trouble will be 3.5 yrs (a time, times, and half a time or 1260 days- as referenced elsewhere in the book of The Revelation). As to the time of the catching up, we can see from Scripture that the Man of sin/son of perdition must be revealed first, as to when in the tribulation I believe is just speculation.

John 5:39

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Be well

OnlytruthintheworldKJV, I do not understand the latter part of your post maybe that's me. My post was on the 7-year rapture theory using the last week of the 70th-week prophecy to create 7 years. My meaning was no part of that prophecy should be combined with Revelation. There is a lot that was fulfilled during those 70 weeks. More than can be covered in a small post. As far as the temple I have not found any scriptures that say there will be another before Jesus sets his kingdom upon the earth but there could be. If you read ( Revelation 21:22) The holy city, New Jerusalem there is no temple.

Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel and Jesus commanded his disciple to only go to the lost sheep and not to go unto the Gentiles.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

They did not until Peters dream and Jesus appeared to Paul, around the same time Stephen was killed. That ended the 70th-week. If you read ( Matthew 23:31-38) it shows who made it desolate and the temple was destroyed 30+ years later in their generation, by the people of the prince, Rome. When Jesus was talking to the woman at the well he talks about this happening. ( John 4:21-24).

God bless, Ron

Greetings in Jesus' name, Ron,

So Jesus came to confirm the covenant for one week, but in the midst of the week he was cut off (3.5 yrs into His ministry) but not for himself (for His Bride, and the Virgins and Guests).

So there remains 3.5 years left of that 70th week which is the great tribulation. This is referenced and lines up with scripture in the Revelation (a time, times & half a time, or 1260 days).

Not quite sure how you think that the 70th week ended in Acts 10 as there is no reference of time between the day of Pentecost (when the New Testament/ Covenant began) and Acts 10..? (Atleast that I can see).

I hope this helps.

Be well, sir,

Andrew

OnlytruthintheworldKJV, you were concerned of the time and dates on the 70th week ending and feel there is 3 years left. There are not any dates or time in the scriptures so we have to look at the recorded dates in history. This is the closest dates I can find in history records but it should be within a margin of erra, may it answer your doubts.

The 70 weeks of 7= 490 years. 483 years when Jesus was baptized. History places this around 29AD. Jesus' ministry was 3 years by the number of Passovers Jesus went to according to scriptures. We are at 486 years. Stephen's death is recorded around 36AD. This is around the same time Jesus stopped confirming the New Covenant through is Apostils and Peter had his dream and went to Cornelius and the gospel went to the Gentiles.

This prophecy was determined upon Israel and Jerusalem not the world, and these six things were to be fulfilled. See for yourself if these were fulfilled by Jesus. 1 To finish the transgression ( Isaiah 53:5, 8) ( Hebrews 9:15-18) 2. To make an end of sins ( Matthew 1:21) ( Hebrews 10:8-11) ( 1 John 3:5) ( Romans 8:3) 3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Colossians 1:20-22) ( Isaiah 53:6) ( Titus 2:14) ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19) 4. To bring in everlasting righteousness ( Romans 5:17-21) ( 2 Corinthians 5:21) 5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( Daniel 9:23) ( John 6:27) ( Mark 1:14-15) 6. To anoint the most holy ( Hebrews 9:6-14).

The 3 years in Revelation starts when Satan is cast down and gives his power to the beast, not connected with the 70 weeks. If not clear its ok.

God bless Andrew, Ron

CAUGHT UP to a Jewish Wedding.

These are actual 7 steps of a Jewish wedding.

1. First, the Jewish groom barters with the father of the bride. They get together and they go back-and-forth, and barter as to what the deal is going to be.

2. Once they reach an agreement, the future bride is brought in. And if she approves of it, all three of them drink out of the covenant cup, which means from that time forward they are betrothed.

3. The groom goes back to his father's house to build their living quarters. It is built right off of the family home. And once the wedding takes place, and they are now married, they will go back to his family's home, and there will be living quarters that will be for them.

4. The father of the groom decides when the living quarters are done, and when he can go get his bride. What does that tell us? We don't know the time or the hour. It has to be a minimum of one year because it is a time of purity for her. The groom can go get his bride when his father decides it's time.

5. When the marriage announcement is made, catch this: the people who have already been invited to the wedding feast, they take their positions along the parade route, because the groom is going to get his bride. And there are people stationed in position all the way along the route. They join the parade as it passes by. It is called a parade.

6. When the groom reaches the bride's house, he stands at a distance and blows the shofar, the trumpet, for the bride to come out and meet him. And the wedding takes place at that time. Do you see anything in there about prophecy? The groom comes to get his bride, and he stands a ways off and blows the trumpet, and she comes out to meet him.

7. The parade goes back to the groom's house and the wedding feast begins. All of the guests in the parade gather in the Fellowship Hall, and the door is shut. This is not an open public thing. It is for guests who ACCEPTED THE INVITATION.

MATTHEW 25

These 7 Steps of a Jewish Wedding look like what I posted about a year ago. It is very fascinating how it parallels the events spoken of in Matthew Chapters 24 and 25. Thanks for re-posting!

Hello Jesse, Thank you for clarifying that. I was trying to figure out if it was you posting without your name. Do you also think that once Jesus and His Bride are married they will never be separate?

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Carleton

Hello Carleton,

I am not sure who posted that, but it does look like it is word for word of what I posted a long while back.

To answer your question, I would have to say that we are already married to Him. We (The Church) are His bride now, present tense. We're just waiting for Him to come for us. Once He does, there will be a wedding feast in heaven and we will be there.

For the Jewish people, the marriage was different than what we see marriage to be today in our western world way of thinking. For them, once you became engaged, it was the same as being legally married. There was a one year period of separation between the bride and groom called a "time of purity." This was to make sure that the bride was not pregnant.

Do you remember in Matthew Chapter 1 when the angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and said do no fear to take unto thee Mary thy wife? This was during the 1 year engagement when Mary was pregnant. We would see it as them being engaged but not married yet. But the angel said "Mary Thy wife." They were already married. They were betrothed.

We are His bride now. One day when the Father says go and get your bride, He will come for us. And we will never be separated from Him. Our marriage to Christ is eternal. That marriage began the moment we received Christ.

Thank you Jesse, I like your thoughts and they speak to me. My wife and I when, we became engaged already Christians, we became one, even though we were 2,500 miles apart. We planned our wedding date and invited the guests. The day finally came where we by ceremony were officially (outwardly) married in the Lord. In our case it was her Dad, a minister of the Gospel that preformed the ceremony. When the wedding and prepared meal was over we left the guests and family and began our journey as husband and wife. Somehow even though this was not a Jewish wedding of times past it was a wedding that the Lord put together. My thoughts earlier have a hard time reconciling that after this marriage was consummated why we would ever be found separate as one of us returned to the world one more time for those who may have repented in not coming as guests when the invitations were sent.

Thank you Jesse for your help and time.