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Revelations Chapter 12 1:17, what Child Is this about Jesus? If so, why does Revelations state that A Woman was about to give birth and the dragon let a flood out of it's mouth to wash the woman away. The earth took the flood away. I am confused, are they refering to Jesus?
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Genesis 37:9-10
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
From this passage of Scripture speaking of Joseph and the dream he was given; we can see that the woman with the 12 stars and the sun and the moon referenced in Revelation 12 is Israel.
The dragon is obviously that old serpent our defeated foe (satan).
And the water represents nations or people that will attack Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble/the great tribulation, but she will flee to the valley in the mountains prophesied in Zechariah 14 (I believe) that God hath prepared for her.
Later John writes about MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS (the roman catholic church) that sits upon many waters. We can see that the roman emperor (the pope) has his "churches" all over the world in just about every nation (many waters).
This is why Christians must come out from her and her "protestant" daughters to be saved ( Rev 18:4).
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
So, my foundation is not a "she" or "her", but a He; verily the Lord Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 2:7-9
King James Version
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
And upon that rock, Jesus built His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The Church is not the rock.
She is built on that rock, which is Christ.
Who is she you ask?
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Amen.
She's a worldwide body of disciples baptized in Jesus' name (not titles F, S, & HG) for the remission of their sins (& not as an "outward showing of an inward change" or "public profession of faith"),
& filled with His Holy Spirit walking in his commandments continuing in His word ( John 8:31-32).
Where is she you ask?
John 11:52
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
She's scattered abroad throughout all the world,& doesn't exist in buildings built by men with fancy titles & big screens and p.a. systems, but in eachother's houses & in the streets confessing Christ to others (Roman's 10:9) for this is how Christians SHALL be saved.
Hello Andrew, it appears that my comment was removed. Likely for asking for your experience first. Must be part of the rules, I am uncertain. My thoughts are not to put too much into tongues as a sign of conversion rather than a new life where there are groanings that come from within reaching out for even clearer communication with the Holy Ghost. I also wonder as you have mentioned the Harlot several times as what is not the Church, why not describe the true Xhurxh of God. I am sorry if my original post was deemed too harsh or sarcastic or personal. The more we volunteer our experiences the more we can understand each other. If you like, please share more in this way.
I believe your comment was removed because it was off topic, and distracting to the initial question Carla had asked.
I, however, beared with you and answered your questions regarding my foundation (the Rock & Chief Cornerstone Jesus Christ), & His Church built on that Rock and who what where when and why she is.
It appears you no longer have any comments or questions on that subject.
It also appears you wish to avoid the questions I asked you concerning; a. How you were saved, & b. Unto what you were baptized? (You don't have to go into detail)
i have no problem answering those questions and sharing a condensed version of my testimony (it's a long story).
But to respect the order & grace (if there be any) of the conversation, would you mind answering my questions first?
I'm not here to bring contention or strife or debate with anyone (as my Master Jesus never debated, only said, he that hath an ear let him hear), but rather because, though I don't know you, I kove you with the love of Christ and care for your soul not wanting any to perish.
The very short story: I felt led outside of my soul to seek instruction and Bible understanding that the answer to my forlorn soul was faith in Jesus Christ and that I must repent of my sins. Resistance to this took years. One day, in the mid-night hours in the back of a dirty produce truck, I poured out my sin before Jesus, anything that came to mind. I became willing in my heart with the help of Jesus to turn away from my worldly life and sell my field and buy his field. Jesus gave me that field in that hour. I was bought for a price and I had sold what I had. How did I know this transaction of love was complete? The Holy Ghost. Not only did I have immediate peace with God by His Son and knowledge of it by His Holy Ghost but I also had power to over come willing sins. Even words that I spoke. I also had an immediate love for my fellow man wanting the same for them. I was willing to reconcile with any man regarding my past, so I felt that I also could say that I have peace with God and man that same hour. The desire to meet and know brethren in this same Spirit grew in me. In due time I entered the Visible Church by water baptism (pouring). Regarding Baptism by the Holy Spirit which seems to ne your interest mostly Andrew it happened when the Holy Spirit entered me. Perhaps there were words I remember not. Today as I mentioned I understand the groaning within me to live outside of this flesh and world that is not my home. This is the short story. Mishael, in whom I love knows a longer version of the same.
I believe you were born again when you poured out your heart to the Lord in that produce truck.
However, (& not to offend you or cause contention, but because I care for your soul as a priest of Jesus Christ), concerning your receiving of the Holy Ghost; where in the book of Acts does it say anyone received the Holy Ghost & just felt peace?
Likewise, concerning your baptism, where in Acts did anyone have water poured over them (this is what the roman catholic church does to infants before they even know theyre sinners in need of a Savior)?
The Greek word used for baptism (& mind you I'm no greek or hebrew scholar for we have the word of God translated perfectly in English with the KJV, but it does help sometimes to get a better understanding) is 'bautizo' & means full immersion. This is how we are buried with Christ in baptism - Col. 2:12.
I imagine the man who poured water over you said the words, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost" but HE NEVER SAID THE ONE NAME GIVEN AMONG MEN UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED ( Acts 4:12): Jesus Christ!
You see as an example: I can write you a check and sign it as son, brother, or cousin; those are all titles that represent who I am, but the bank won't remit the funds to you unless I put my name on it.
The name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is: Jesus Christ (I can provide scripture for this if you want). Peter & all the disciples understood this ( Acts 2:38, 22:16).
By no means am I denying the experience you had with the Lord in that produce truck. But I am denying the lies that men have told you concerning baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost that didn't come from the bible."Yea, let God be true and every man a liar" - Rom. 3:4
Do you know the bible says that baptism saves us? 1 Pet. 3:21
I offer this to you in the name of Jesus Christ & I pray that you can receive it.
Hello Andrew, The reformation brought forth some men in the power of God that are well remembered. However these men did not reform anything. The faith once delivered was already present and always has been since the Apostles built on the rock of Jesus Christ the Son of God. It is on this foundation of faith that I was baptized into Church of God by water after proving my spirit and hearing my testimony amongst others who are on the same foundation as the Apostles and true Church throughout the ages which remains complete to this very day. I do not think you know her, because you have looked elsewhere and found nothing and created a new story that is outside of outside of the bride of Christ, His Church which is Holy. I am properly baptized into this Holy place. This home is a refuge for my soul and an accountability of my life, a place to raise my family, a place to see children surrender their lives to Jesus Christ as God calls them to repentance in His time. I am free, free indeed! Outside of our time together in this race where we have met and I am happy to have done so, I am not anchored to your understanding or your hope or your instructions in the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we are not brethren and I run this race in the peace of the Gospel happily. I doubt you can provide any continuity throughout the ages of your Church and people that interpret the scriptures as you do as Chris tried to show you.
Thank You,
God Bless,
Carla Zgabay
And yes:
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
This verse is speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Great question!
Revelation 12:1
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Genesis 37:9-10
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
From this passage of Scripture speaking of Joseph and the dream he was given; we can see that the woman with the 12 stars and the sun and the moon referenced in Revelation 12 is Israel.
The dragon is obviously that old serpent our defeated foe (satan).
And the water represents nations or people that will attack Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble/the great tribulation, but she will flee to the valley in the mountains prophesied in Zechariah 14 (I believe) that God hath prepared for her.
Later John writes about MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS (the roman catholic church) that sits upon many waters. We can see that the roman emperor (the pope) has his "churches" all over the world in just about every nation (many waters).
This is why Christians must come out from her and her "protestant" daughters to be saved ( Rev 18:4).
I hope this helps you Carla.
Be well in Jesus' name,
Andrew
[Comment Removed]
The bible says:
1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
So, my foundation is not a "she" or "her", but a He; verily the Lord Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 2:7-9
King James Version
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
And upon that rock, Jesus built His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The Church is not the rock.
She is built on that rock, which is Christ.
Who is she you ask?
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Amen.
She's a worldwide body of disciples baptized in Jesus' name (not titles F, S, & HG) for the remission of their sins (& not as an "outward showing of an inward change" or "public profession of faith"),
& filled with His Holy Spirit walking in his commandments continuing in His word ( John 8:31-32).
Where is she you ask?
John 11:52
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
She's scattered abroad throughout all the world,& doesn't exist in buildings built by men with fancy titles & big screens and p.a. systems, but in eachother's houses & in the streets confessing Christ to others (Roman's 10:9) for this is how Christians SHALL be saved.
Praise the Lord!
Now let me ask you;
How were you saved & unto what were you baptized?
Carleton
I believe your comment was removed because it was off topic, and distracting to the initial question Carla had asked.
I, however, beared with you and answered your questions regarding my foundation (the Rock & Chief Cornerstone Jesus Christ), & His Church built on that Rock and who what where when and why she is.
It appears you no longer have any comments or questions on that subject.
It also appears you wish to avoid the questions I asked you concerning; a. How you were saved, & b. Unto what you were baptized? (You don't have to go into detail)
i have no problem answering those questions and sharing a condensed version of my testimony (it's a long story).
But to respect the order & grace (if there be any) of the conversation, would you mind answering my questions first?
I'm not here to bring contention or strife or debate with anyone (as my Master Jesus never debated, only said, he that hath an ear let him hear), but rather because, though I don't know you, I kove you with the love of Christ and care for your soul not wanting any to perish.
I pray that you can receive this, in Jesus name.
The very short story: I felt led outside of my soul to seek instruction and Bible understanding that the answer to my forlorn soul was faith in Jesus Christ and that I must repent of my sins. Resistance to this took years. One day, in the mid-night hours in the back of a dirty produce truck, I poured out my sin before Jesus, anything that came to mind. I became willing in my heart with the help of Jesus to turn away from my worldly life and sell my field and buy his field. Jesus gave me that field in that hour. I was bought for a price and I had sold what I had. How did I know this transaction of love was complete? The Holy Ghost. Not only did I have immediate peace with God by His Son and knowledge of it by His Holy Ghost but I also had power to over come willing sins. Even words that I spoke. I also had an immediate love for my fellow man wanting the same for them. I was willing to reconcile with any man regarding my past, so I felt that I also could say that I have peace with God and man that same hour. The desire to meet and know brethren in this same Spirit grew in me. In due time I entered the Visible Church by water baptism (pouring). Regarding Baptism by the Holy Spirit which seems to ne your interest mostly Andrew it happened when the Holy Spirit entered me. Perhaps there were words I remember not. Today as I mentioned I understand the groaning within me to live outside of this flesh and world that is not my home. This is the short story. Mishael, in whom I love knows a longer version of the same.
Carleton
That we can be found faithful in the last day.
Carleton
I believe you were born again when you poured out your heart to the Lord in that produce truck.
However, (& not to offend you or cause contention, but because I care for your soul as a priest of Jesus Christ), concerning your receiving of the Holy Ghost; where in the book of Acts does it say anyone received the Holy Ghost & just felt peace?
Likewise, concerning your baptism, where in Acts did anyone have water poured over them (this is what the roman catholic church does to infants before they even know theyre sinners in need of a Savior)?
The Greek word used for baptism (& mind you I'm no greek or hebrew scholar for we have the word of God translated perfectly in English with the KJV, but it does help sometimes to get a better understanding) is 'bautizo' & means full immersion. This is how we are buried with Christ in baptism - Col. 2:12.
I imagine the man who poured water over you said the words, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost" but HE NEVER SAID THE ONE NAME GIVEN AMONG MEN UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED ( Acts 4:12): Jesus Christ!
You see as an example: I can write you a check and sign it as son, brother, or cousin; those are all titles that represent who I am, but the bank won't remit the funds to you unless I put my name on it.
The name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is: Jesus Christ (I can provide scripture for this if you want). Peter & all the disciples understood this ( Acts 2:38, 22:16).
By no means am I denying the experience you had with the Lord in that produce truck. But I am denying the lies that men have told you concerning baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost that didn't come from the bible."Yea, let God be true and every man a liar" - Rom. 3:4
Do you know the bible says that baptism saves us? 1 Pet. 3:21
I offer this to you in the name of Jesus Christ & I pray that you can receive it.
Sincerely,
Andrew
P.S.I'm still ready to share my testimony
[Comment Removed]
Carleton
[Comment Removed]
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